i dont care what anybody says this game is gonna rock!!!!!!
This may be true but don't expect the D&D fans to embrace it with loving arms. Because Neverwinter Online is about as close to 4th edition as Tera. If this doesn't matter to you then have at it.
The fanboys in this thread like to pretend none of us have ever played the game because it makes them feel better but when open beta starts they'll move on to the "it's just beta" card. The best thing to do is try to get into a beta or at least watch some of the recent streams and judge for yourself.
"But hey now OP the game has Torm and Kelemvor in it, it must be inspired by 4th edition right?" Wrong, you won't even get out of the character creation process before you're completely appauled by how uninspired this game really is. As someone else mentioned every class is just a premade shell of a role you're getting forced into.
"But you get 3 WoW talent trees thats totally 4e D&D right?"
Originally posted by Burntvet Originally posted by Jyiiga Originally posted by MadDemon64 From what I saw, the only thing I was disappointed in was the character creation, but then I realized something.THE GAME IS STILL IN BETA.As soon as I realized this, I accepted that most of my problems will likely be remedied before the game is released.
What a pipe dream. People say this about every single game that is in beta. From all indication this game is close to release. You are not going to see anything substantial added to it between now and then. The bulk of betas these days are nothing more than hype machines.
And the pile of articles that hype them. I mean really... like 10+ articles on this game in the last 2 weeks and nothing critical about it or Cryptic in any of them? Yeah... I'll leave people to speculate on the reasons for that, but like a game or not, there are are legitimate criticisms to be made as no game is perfect, and one expects those from real "journalists" or even "objective reviewers". Too bad there is none of that here.
More then a bit of topic here but If you dislike the site and disagree with it why are you here supporting it? Advertisers advertise here becasue of the population (good or bad) the more you post here the more traffic the site gets. The more you help bring in advertising to support what you supposibly hate.
As one of the people who like the stuff Bill and Suzie do here let me personally thank you for helping to support this sight.
Personally, I am here for the forums only. The reviews/previews/first-looks/everything else have degenerated to the point of being worthless. When the writers here "like everything", what good is that in making a decision to buy or not? Take a look at the official ratings on "major" MMOs vs player ratings on this site and you will see the official rating is ALWAYS higher (with maybe 1 exception) so what does that say? "Speak no Evil" is the watchword here on articles (So they were critical of ER, once... what about TOR, and every other game that this placed hyped to the skies and then crashed?). And also, this site now has a tab to sell games directly, so it gives them an even larger reason to hype up the titles. It is not a co-incidence that the financial health of this site has suffered and 40% or more people use ad-blockers.
This may be true but don't expect the D&D fans to embrace it with loving arms. Because Neverwinter Online is about as close to 4th edition as Tera. If this doesn't matter to you then have at it.
The fanboys in this thread like to pretend none of us have ever played the game because it makes them feel better but when open beta starts they'll move on to the "it's just beta" card. The best thing to do is try to get into a beta or at least watch some of the recent streams and judge for yourself.
"But hey now OP the game has Torm and Kelemvor in it, it must be inspired by 4th edition right?" Wrong, you won't even get out of the character creation process before you're completely appauled by how uninspired this game really is. As someone else mentioned every class is just a premade shell of a role you're getting forced into.
"But you get 3 WoW talent trees thats totally 4e D&D right?"
I think the D&D universe does deserve a proper, online outing - if even co-op play.
However, at what point did Cryptic ever advertise this game as the definitive D&D experience? It was and will always be just another MMO set in the universe.
It's like people expecting Elder Scrolls Online to be basically Skyrim Online - they're gonna be sorely disappointed when they realise it has all the elements of any other MMO.
Just highlighted the points where you truly showed you don't know WTF you're talking about. Tell me, when you played a Against the Giants, and killed Snurre - did he not drop the same loot every time? (it was a big ass flaming sword, wasn't it?)
I don't like the inflation of the numbers (or the size of some of the weapons), but in the videos the regular mob fights don't last 20 rounds. The boss fight may last longer, but time wise it's shorter in the MMO than a PNP session, and they're about the same duration as a Neverwinter Nights boss fight, clerics in 4ED certainly can spam heals, it's called an "at will power" which is exactly what Cryptic implemented. Look it up. Level 1 cleric at will, Sacred Flame and twice per encounter Healing Word.
This is the 4th Neverwinter game. Neverwinter was nothing until online CPRG's - it's not like they're using Greyhawk or something. The first Neverwinter game was just a copy and paste job of the "Gold Box" games - really pretty crappy, except it was sort of MMOish in that you could do it online. The 2nd game reinvited to make it a cooperative RPG, the third followed the 2nd, and this is simply a different expereince, just like Neverwinter was different from Neverwinter Nights.
You're pretty obviously stuck in the mindset of "I want another NeverWinter Nights with 3rd Edition Rules and Turned Based (pausible) content, if it's not that game, it's not D&D". That's silly and ignorant, and not based in history or anything.
So you're saying that; in fact, you do autohit for hundreds of damage at low levels against normal monsters for 20 rounds?(yes many normal mobs take that many hits in this game) Oh and thieves totally charge through dungeons without searching for anything while magic items constantly autodrop in 4e right? And I'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about? Haha try playing 4e instead of casually googling some nonsense to fail at winning an internet debate.
So you're saying that; in fact, you do autohit for hundreds of damage at low levels against normal monsters for 20 rounds?(yes many normal mobs take that many hits in this game) Oh and thieves totally charge through dungeons without searching for anything while magic items constantly autodrop in 4e right? And I'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about? Haha try playing 4e instead of casually googling some nonsense to fail at winning an internet debate.
Im fully expecting NW to incerase HPs and damage of weapons from the outset probably because it makes you the player feel more empowered.
However, the first time I played 4E with my regular group they were smacking kobolds for 20-30+ damage a round at level 1 and realising, to their dismay, that the kobold had more than 4hps.
4E is now 3.X, nor is it pathfinder. I spotted someone mention its more a minuatures game. They are right. at 18th level our group are fighting monsters with 600 - 900 hit points - straight out of the monster manual. They are doing between them 100 -150 points of damage a round average. The combat can last upto 10 - 15 rounds with a group that understand tactics and work better together more than any other offline or online group ive ever gamed with.
Im excited about NW because, when i first picked up and read the 4E PHB i realised i had, in my hand, a dnd ruleset that was pretty much an online MMO ruleset in an table top rule book.
5 classes: No monk, no assassin (both in laters books. Neither availabe in the PHB). No Ranger (shame tbh but i can live without a Ranger). 2 fighters has me sighing. I would have preferred say a single fighter and either the bard or Ranger instead.
Multiclassing: Someone posted a link to the 4e wiki on Multiclassing. Sadly multiclassing in 4E sucks. You simply dont do it unless your building a character for fluff purposes. No, what you do is hybrid. Thats the real multiclass capability of dnd 4E. My 18th level Assassin / Ranger hybrid is, frankly, unkillable (but thats because shes a revenant to boot). In our group with have a cleric/seeker multiclass who is, frankly, an incredible healing machine that has versatility to fight close up or at range with bow or javelin.
My group has player who have played all the versions of Dnd and pathfinder. They love PF for the story but hate the combat when putting it against 4E. 4E is tactical action - its the combat system i see in the videos, without the inflated hitpoints and damage - ill give you that - but frankly it dosnt matter to me.
I have my reservations as to the game, but frankly 4e DnD is not 3.X dnd so im cool with the classes and way the combat system seems to play out. The lore in Fearun has changed a lot between editions - im cool there. Its Cryptic: well i didnt enjoy CO, because it wasnt COX. STO was okay but i enjoyed DDO/LoTRO more. Right now, for a free to play game with a Pseudo DM capability im looking forward to giving NW a go. If it sucks then ill vote with my mouse and go play TSW or BD2.
From what I saw, the only thing I was disappointed in was the character creation, but then I realized something.
THE GAME IS STILL IN BETA.
As soon as I realized this, I accepted that most of my problems will likely be remedied before the game is released.
What a pipe dream. People say this about every single game that is in beta. From all indication this game is close to release. You are not going to see anything substantial added to it between now and then. The bulk of betas these days are nothing more than hype machines.
And the pile of articles that hype them. I mean really... like 10+ articles on this game in the last 2 weeks and nothing critical about it or Cryptic in any of them? Yeah... I'll leave people to speculate on the reasons for that, but like a game or not, there are are legitimate criticisms to be made as no game is perfect, and one expects those from real "journalists" or even "objective reviewers". Too bad there is none of that here.
More then a bit of topic here but If you dislike the site and disagree with it why are you here supporting it? Advertisers advertise here becasue of the population (good or bad) the more you post here the more traffic the site gets. The more you help bring in advertising to support what you supposibly hate.
As one of the people who like the stuff Bill and Suzie do here let me personally thank you for helping to support this sight.
Personally, I am here for the forums only. The reviews/previews/first-looks/everything else have degenerated to the point of being worthless. When the writers here "like everything", what good is that in making a decision to buy or not? Take a look at the official ratings on "major" MMOs vs player ratings on this site and you will see the official rating is ALWAYS higher (with maybe 1 exception) so what does that say? "Speak no Evil" is the watchword here on articles (So they were critical of ER, once... what about TOR, and every other game that this placed hyped to the skies and then crashed?). And also, this site now has a tab to sell games directly, so it gives them an even larger reason to hype up the titles. It is not a co-incidence that the financial health of this site has suffered and 40% or more people use ad-blockers.
I was disappointed that during his hour long video Total Biscuit never asked about exploring the world or crafting.
Guess I will have to wait for that info.
the world is instanced kinda like STO, not sure how much Worldy exploration will be available, as for crafting Zeke stated in several videos that that information will be released in coming weeks.. hopefully that is true.. they did say it would be a "Unique Crafting System" whatever that mans....
I never played STO.
When people said instanced I assumed that meant zoned off areas where it was not an entire open world.
Do you mean you sit in one town and just portal to an instance some where?
If that is the case I will be sorely disappointed.
That reminds me of sitting in Stormwind and just queuing for LFD?
Very boring in my opinion.
Why not give sto a go to give you an idea what to expect. Have to say i'm not expecting neverwinter to end up far off which is also turning me off the game.
I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit]
However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general.
For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.
The game has no release date has not started closed beta testing for those who do not wish to be founder and you thing you know everything about the game. WoW what a sign of true ignorance. Whats next? Are you going to say that with the little known info on World of Darkness it will also be a terrible MMO?
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I was disappointed that during his hour long video Total Biscuit never asked about exploring the world or crafting.
Guess I will have to wait for that info.
the world is instanced kinda like STO, not sure how much Worldy exploration will be available, as for crafting Zeke stated in several videos that that information will be released in coming weeks.. hopefully that is true.. they did say it would be a "Unique Crafting System" whatever that mans....
Incorrect, it's far more like CO, which has zones as large as a typical MMO.
I was disappointed that during his hour long video Total Biscuit never asked about exploring the world or crafting.
Guess I will have to wait for that info.
the world is instanced kinda like STO, not sure how much Worldy exploration will be available, as for crafting Zeke stated in several videos that that information will be released in coming weeks.. hopefully that is true.. they did say it would be a "Unique Crafting System" whatever that mans....
I never played STO.
When people said instanced I assumed that meant zoned off areas where it was not an entire open world.
Do you mean you sit in one town and just portal to an instance some where?
If that is the case I will be sorely disappointed.
That reminds me of sitting in Stormwind and just queuing for LFD?
Very boring in my opinion.
Why not give sto a go to give you an idea what to expect. Have to say i'm not expecting neverwinter to end up far off which is also turning me off the game.
Terrible advice, STO is a collection of heavily instances maps connected by the interstellar space map. It s absolutely nothing like neverwinters layout, Check out CHampions online if you want an idea of how neverwinters world is laid out.
i dont care what anybody says this game is gonna rock!!!!!!
This may be true but don't expect the D&D fans to embrace it with loving arms. Because Neverwinter Online is about as close to 4th edition as Tera. If this doesn't matter to you then have at it.
The fanboys in this thread like to pretend none of us have ever played the game because it makes them feel better but when open beta starts they'll move on to the "it's just beta" card. The best thing to do is try to get into a beta or at least watch some of the recent streams and judge for yourself.
"But hey now OP the game has Torm and Kelemvor in it, it must be inspired by 4th edition right?" Wrong, you won't even get out of the character creation process before you're completely appauled by how uninspired this game really is. As someone else mentioned every class is just a premade shell of a role you're getting forced into.
"But you get 3 WoW talent trees thats totally 4e D&D right?"
Except is uses the same skills, classes, setting, storylines, and races. Along with their relative bonuses and weaknesses.
It also uses 4e combat roles, ie striker, leader, defender, ect.
it also uses the same stat and roll allocation system as D&D, along with corresponding skill checks.
it also uses the same class restrictions as D&D. Ie a rogue can only use dagger, shortswords, slings, etc...
It also uses the same power slotting, ie a daily, 3 encounters abilities, etc...
It also uses prestige tiers for further developing a base class
it also uses a feat system to further develope your characters abilities.
but yeah, it's totally just like Tera and has no 4e D&D influence at all..well, except for almost every part of the game that has obvious 4e influences
i dont care what anybody says this game is gonna rock!!!!!!
This may be true but don't expect the D&D fans to embrace it with loving arms. Because Neverwinter Online is about as close to 4th edition as Tera. If this doesn't matter to you then have at it.
The fanboys in this thread like to pretend none of us have ever played the game because it makes them feel better but when open beta starts they'll move on to the "it's just beta" card. The best thing to do is try to get into a beta or at least watch some of the recent streams and judge for yourself.
"But hey now OP the game has Torm and Kelemvor in it, it must be inspired by 4th edition right?" Wrong, you won't even get out of the character creation process before you're completely appauled by how uninspired this game really is. As someone else mentioned every class is just a premade shell of a role you're getting forced into.
"But you get 3 WoW talent trees thats totally 4e D&D right?"
Except is uses the same skills, classes, setting, storylines, and races. Along with their relative bonuses and weaknesses.
It also uses 4e combat roles, ie striker, leader, defender, ect.
it also uses the same stat and roll allocation system as D&D, along with corresponding skill checks.
it also uses the same class restrictions as D&D. Ie a rogue can only use dagger, shortswords, slings, etc...
It also uses the same power slotting, ie a daily, 3 encounters abilities, etc...
It also uses prestige tiers for further developing a base class
it also uses a feat system to further develope your characters abilities.
but yeah, it's totally just like Tera and has no 4e D&D influence at all..well, except for almost every part of the game that has obvious 4e influences
Flanking. Don't forget that flanking is in the game. More specifically positional standing impacting results based on attacks (special effects, more damage, etc.) That's 4e bread and butter and well represented in the MMO from what I've seen from videos.
I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit]
However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general.
For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.
This post is a flame bait!! I like to know why you felt the need to post this really??? If I posted for every game I hated, I would be on the net all day, but why should you.... I just don't get post like this, and the reasons given are not good enough to say a game is bad, gamers today lol..
Originally posted by jayfeeler69 We have to remember anything craptic touches is well crap. They ruined Star Trek remember? Placing D & D on an mmo and having it be nothing like D & D is a disgrace. It will be f2p quicker than CO and STO. Of course Bill Murphy will say its great, he has to until it releases so he can get ad revenues. Its why no one takes MMORPG.COMs previews seriously. Remember when they told us TSW and FFXIV were great?
It is F2P anyways, LOL, all games today are F2P because guess what thats the market, LOL, games today go F2P because of what the market is asking, for, you are see a new trend B2P more and more, and F2P has so many flaws its sick..
Again what is wrong with TSW game is doing fine, and there are NO classes really... the game is up 400% on the amount of people playing since going B2P, which was a good move, we didn't want F2P trash F2P ruins communitys and most people who wantt F2P aren't gonna spend money anyways and are there most of the time to ruin the community.
when D&D launched in 1974 as "Men and Magic" it had 3 classes -- fighting man, magic user, cleric
Greyhawk in 1975 added 2 clasees, Paladin and Thief
the D&D of today has dozens of classes
as others have posted, more classes will get added to NWN over time
+1 to this, not many people understand that D&D didn't always have 10+ classes with subclasses in those. That trend really only started after Wizards of the Coast "Stole" Gygax's version of D&D(The entire 2nd edition of D&D was that, to make the seperation, in my opinion). I have hopes for this game, although it is a Cryptic game and also a Perfect World Entertainment game. Will try it out at least when it launches.
Except is uses the same skills, classes, setting, storylines, and races. Along with their relative bonuses and weaknesses.
It also uses 4e combat roles, ie striker, leader, defender, ect.
it also uses the same stat and roll allocation system as D&D, along with corresponding skill checks.
it also uses the same class restrictions as D&D. Ie a rogue can only use dagger, shortswords, slings, etc...
It also uses the same power slotting, ie a daily, 3 encounters abilities, etc...
It also uses prestige tiers for further developing a base class
it also uses a feat system to further develope your characters abilities.
but yeah, it's totally just like Tera and has no 4e D&D influence at all..well, except for almost every part of the game that has obvious 4e influences
Class restrictions? I can't remember anything in DnD that stops a Fighter for trading in his sword + board for a 2 hander, but in Neverwinter you have to re-roll to do that.
It uses power slotting, but it is equivalent in name only. Encounters are on short cooldowns, dailies take about 2 minutes or so to charge up, it is not the same.
It has paragon paths, yes, we don't know how similar these are to 4e paragon paths yet, though.
From watching streams and videos I can tell you that feats are not the feats we know from DnD. They are pretty much just a generic talent tree that you plug points in to, again similar in name only.
It certainly has more DnD than Tera (Don't know why someone asserted otherwise), but most of the similarities are shallow (often just using the same name for no reason). There really aren't many deep similarities.
Originally posted by Betakodo To all the people going "Have you played it?!", you can just watch Final Fantasy XIV videos to see that it's turn based rubbish.
watching a video about a game and actually playing the game is 2 completely different things. You will never understand something till you actually put your hands on it.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Originally posted by Betakodo To all the people going "Have you played it?!", you can just watch Final Fantasy XIV videos to see that it's turn based rubbish.
FF XIV videos prove Neverwinter mechanics are turn based.....really? Oooooh, because .............. really?
when D&D launched in 1974 as "Men and Magic" it had 3 classes -- fighting man, magic user, cleric
Greyhawk in 1975 added 2 clasees, Paladin and Thief
the D&D of today has dozens of classes
as others have posted, more classes will get added to NWN over time
+1 to this, not many people understand that D&D didn't always have 10+ classes with subclasses in those. That trend really only started after Wizards of the Coast "Stole" Gygax's version of D&D(The entire 2nd edition of D&D was that, to make the seperation, in my opinion). I have hopes for this game, although it is a Cryptic game and also a Perfect World Entertainment game. Will try it out at least when it launches.
That's all fine and good, but how long will the launch classes be the only classes? Which ones will they add and when? And of course there is the burning question WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU LAUNCH A GAME NOWADAYS WITH ONLY A FEW CLASSES?
Santayana is laughing.
History lessons about PnP aside (1974 laughably came up in this discussion), this game is hitting the MMO market. Launching an instance heavy game with minimal classes is entering the cave without your 50' of rope.
when D&D launched in 1974 as "Men and Magic" it had 3 classes -- fighting man, magic user, cleric
Greyhawk in 1975 added 2 clasees, Paladin and Thief
the D&D of today has dozens of classes
as others have posted, more classes will get added to NWN over time
+1 to this, not many people understand that D&D didn't always have 10+ classes with subclasses in those. That trend really only started after Wizards of the Coast "Stole" Gygax's version of D&D(The entire 2nd edition of D&D was that, to make the seperation, in my opinion). I have hopes for this game, although it is a Cryptic game and also a Perfect World Entertainment game. Will try it out at least when it launches.
That's all fine and good, but how long will the launch classes be the only classes? Which ones will they add and when? And of course there is the burning question WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU LAUNCH A GAME NOWADAYS WITH ONLY A FEW CLASSES?
Santayana is laughing.
History lessons about PnP aside (1974 laughably came up in this discussion), this game is hitting the MMO market. Launching an instance heavy game with minimal classes is entering the cave without your 50' of rope.
I'm ok with that, as I always forgot to buy the damn rope.
Personally, I am here for the forums only. The reviews/previews/first-looks/everything else have degenerated to the point of being worthless. When the writers here "like everything", what good is that in making a decision to buy or not? Take a look at the official ratings on "major" MMOs vs player ratings on this site and you will see the official rating is ALWAYS higher (with maybe 1 exception) so what does that say? "Speak no Evil" is the watchword here on articles (So they were critical of ER, once... what about TOR, and every other game that this placed hyped to the skies and then crashed?). And also, this site now has a tab to sell games directly, so it gives them an even larger reason to hype up the titles. It is not a co-incidence that the financial health of this site has suffered and 40% or more people use ad-blockers.
Well, that's one way to look at it. On the other hand, with a few exceptions, posters on this site trash everything. Why would I believe them? If I listened to people like you then I wouldn't be playing a damn thing ever.
I'm a gamer. I like to game. I game a LOT. I would rather play the game than moan about payoff conspiracies and how everything in the world of gaming is shit. I feel bad for the constantly negative posters. What the hell do they do with their gaming time?
There is nothing wrong with being critical or selective, but just blasting with the shotgun of "it's all crap" doesn't work for me anymore than shill articles by paid columnists do. At least with the columns I can see features highlighted. I can make my own judgements from there.
I try new games, plenty of them: SPG and MMO. Tried two new MMOs in the last month, and they were both garbage. And a couple other F2Ps and they likewise had some severe short comings, that were... what a surprise... totally missed/omitted by the various writers doing the preview/review/first look/whatever else BS. At least I did not end up having to buy a box for any of them it turns out, but if you "believed the hype" and they had had a box, it would have been wasted money.
And that is what really pisses me off: seeing a whole bunch of hyped up sunshiny stuff and then having the game suck. The reviewers/writers missed all the crappy mechanics? The same quests for the Nth time? The same game for the Nth time? The shallow game play? The mediocrity? And everything else? Really?
So try whatever games you want, I do.
But at this point, I never, ever buy a box for a game based on the "professional reviews" I see on this site and others. It can't be believed that these so-called "professional game reviewers" miss all the things, in many recent games, that caused the games to crash and burn after 2-3 months after having bunches of articles praise them to the skies.
So what is it? Personally, I think they try to find things to like and are probably encouraged to "accentuate the positive aspects" and "minimize the negative ones" in their preview/review. This place is little more than a thinly veiled MMO advertisement site after all.
So the writers find a few enjoyable things in Game X (and you pretty much always can) and write about those, but that does not make Game X worth playing/paying for, or even a good game.
Class restrictions? I can't remember anything in DnD that stops a Fighter for trading in his sword + board for a 2 hander, but in Neverwinter you have to re-roll to do that.
It uses power slotting, but it is equivalent in name only. Encounters are on short cooldowns, dailies take about 2 minutes or so to charge up, it is not the same.
It has paragon paths, yes, we don't know how similar these are to 4e paragon paths yet, though.
From watching streams and videos I can tell you that feats are not the feats we know from DnD. They are pretty much just a generic talent tree that you plug points in to, again similar in name only.
It certainly has more DnD than Tera (Don't know why someone asserted otherwise), but most of the similarities are shallow (often just using the same name for no reason). There really aren't many deep similarities.
Yep and it's really sad just how easily the fans are fooled despite the high volume of trashy mmo's to come out in the last decade. They see what they want to see and as long as they keep buying the same hype trained garbage developers will keep making them this way.
Oh well they'll get whats coming to them in the end. A truck load of hate is sure to pile into Cryptic for abusing the D&D name which they had no business using in the first place. Just as it did to Turbine, where DDO became a laughing stock to anyone that's a fan of D&D.
Personally, I am here for the forums only. The reviews/previews/first-looks/everything else have degenerated to the point of being worthless. When the writers here "like everything", what good is that in making a decision to buy or not? Take a look at the official ratings on "major" MMOs vs player ratings on this site and you will see the official rating is ALWAYS higher (with maybe 1 exception) so what does that say? "Speak no Evil" is the watchword here on articles (So they were critical of ER, once... what about TOR, and every other game that this placed hyped to the skies and then crashed?). And also, this site now has a tab to sell games directly, so it gives them an even larger reason to hype up the titles. It is not a co-incidence that the financial health of this site has suffered and 40% or more people use ad-blockers.
Well, that's one way to look at it. On the other hand, with a few exceptions, posters on this site trash everything. Why would I believe them? If I listened to people like you then I wouldn't be playing a damn thing ever.
I'm a gamer. I like to game. I game a LOT. I would rather play the game than moan about payoff conspiracies and how everything in the world of gaming is shit. I feel bad for the constantly negative posters. What the hell do they do with their gaming time?
There is nothing wrong with being critical or selective, but just blasting with the shotgun of "it's all crap" doesn't work for me anymore than shill articles by paid columnists do. At least with the columns I can see features highlighted. I can make my own judgements from there.
I try new games, plenty of them: SPG and MMO. Tried two new MMOs in the last month, and they were both garbage. And a couple other F2Ps and they likewise had some severe short comings, that were... what a surprise... totally missed/omitted by the various writers doing the preview/review/first look/whatever else BS. At least I did not end up having to buy a box for any of them it turns out, but if you "believed the hype" and they had had a box, it would have been wasted money.
And that is what really pisses me off: seeing a whole bunch of hyped up sunshiny stuff and then having the game suck. The reviewers/writers missed all the crappy mechanics? The same quests for the Nth time? The same game for the Nth time? The shallow game play? The mediocrity? And everything else? Really?
So try whatever games you want, I do.
But at this point, I never, ever buy a box for a game based on the "professional reviews" I see on this site and others. It can't be believed that these so-called "professional game reviewers" miss all the things, in many recent games, that caused the games to crash and burn after 2-3 months after having bunches of articles praise them to the skies.
So what is it? Personally, I think they try to find things to like and are probably encouraged to "accentuate the positive aspects" and "minimize the negative ones" in their preview/review. This place is little more than a thinly veiled MMO advertisement site after all.
So the writers find a few enjoyable things in Game X (and you pretty much always can) and write about those, but that does not make Game X worth playing/paying for, or even a good game.
And it certainly does not help the consumer.
I see MMORPG as a mini city in the sea of mmos, where we can talk about new mmos. If you yourself like a game, you're going to rave about it, yes? Welcome to mmorpg, there's a ton of folk like that here, and a ton of trolls waiting to try and rip them down.
As far as the reviewers, have you watched First Impressions? RipperX is fair, but he has his own unique way of doing things, it's always more of a showcase and entertainment moreso than 'serious buisness'.
Other reviewers I actually have seen in game well after their reviews, so I seriously call into question your opinion, for I truly believe they, like us, are gamers just having fun in games they enjoy. That's not payolla, they are allowed to be gamers when they aren't working aren't they?
I also have yet to see a reviewer hide a bug, or bad news of any sort. They seem to call things out regularly and have been pretty honest with us.
The only thing I can comment on about mmorpg negatively is recently I have been given a warning (which I am appealing) for the first time in so many years here. I think the forum trolls are actually having an affect on our mods, or something else is amiss, but hopefully there are mods for the mods. I'm honestly perfectly fine just watching mmorpg from my youtube account never to visit this site again if the powers here lose control. Regardless, I think the reviewers are some of the best in the business here at mmorpg.
The MMOFTW Live streams when they invite devs to sit in with them is some of the best viewing I have seen in years, it's full of info and entertainment. The MMORPG Livestream of Neverwinter's dungeon crawl recently was also a great show of what this game is going to be about.
Class restrictions? I can't remember anything in DnD that stops a Fighter for trading in his sword + board for a 2 hander, but in Neverwinter you have to re-roll to do that.
It uses power slotting, but it is equivalent in name only. Encounters are on short cooldowns, dailies take about 2 minutes or so to charge up, it is not the same.
It has paragon paths, yes, we don't know how similar these are to 4e paragon paths yet, though.
From watching streams and videos I can tell you that feats are not the feats we know from DnD. They are pretty much just a generic talent tree that you plug points in to, again similar in name only.
It certainly has more DnD than Tera (Don't know why someone asserted otherwise), but most of the similarities are shallow (often just using the same name for no reason). There really aren't many deep similarities.
Yep and it's really sad just how easily the fans are fooled despite the high volume of trashy mmo's to come out in the last decade. They see what they want to see and as long as they keep buying the same hype trained garbage developers will keep making them this way.
Oh well they'll get whats coming to them in the end. A truck load of hate is sure to pile into Cryptic for abusing the D&D name which they had no business using in the first place. Just as it did to Turbine, where DDO became a laughing stock to anyone that's a fan of D&D.
So you went from "Theres no D&D in Nevewinter" to "Theres not enough D&D in Neverwinter" to "I don't like how they've used D&D in Neverwinter". At least we've made progress.
Comments
This may be true but don't expect the D&D fans to embrace it with loving arms. Because Neverwinter Online is about as close to 4th edition as Tera. If this doesn't matter to you then have at it.
The fanboys in this thread like to pretend none of us have ever played the game because it makes them feel better but when open beta starts they'll move on to the "it's just beta" card. The best thing to do is try to get into a beta or at least watch some of the recent streams and judge for yourself.
"But hey now OP the game has Torm and Kelemvor in it, it must be inspired by 4th edition right?" Wrong, you won't even get out of the character creation process before you're completely appauled by how uninspired this game really is. As someone else mentioned every class is just a premade shell of a role you're getting forced into.
"But you get 3 WoW talent trees thats totally 4e D&D right?"
What a pipe dream. People say this about every single game that is in beta. From all indication this game is close to release. You are not going to see anything substantial added to it between now and then. The bulk of betas these days are nothing more than hype machines.
And the pile of articles that hype them. I mean really... like 10+ articles on this game in the last 2 weeks and nothing critical about it or Cryptic in any of them? Yeah... I'll leave people to speculate on the reasons for that, but like a game or not, there are are legitimate criticisms to be made as no game is perfect, and one expects those from real "journalists" or even "objective reviewers". Too bad there is none of that here.More then a bit of topic here but If you dislike the site and disagree with it why are you here supporting it? Advertisers advertise here becasue of the population (good or bad) the more you post here the more traffic the site gets. The more you help bring in advertising to support what you supposibly hate.
As one of the people who like the stuff Bill and Suzie do here let me personally thank you for helping to support this sight.
Personally, I am here for the forums only. The reviews/previews/first-looks/everything else have degenerated to the point of being worthless. When the writers here "like everything", what good is that in making a decision to buy or not? Take a look at the official ratings on "major" MMOs vs player ratings on this site and you will see the official rating is ALWAYS higher (with maybe 1 exception) so what does that say? "Speak no Evil" is the watchword here on articles (So they were critical of ER, once... what about TOR, and every other game that this placed hyped to the skies and then crashed?). And also, this site now has a tab to sell games directly, so it gives them an even larger reason to hype up the titles. It is not a co-incidence that the financial health of this site has suffered and 40% or more people use ad-blockers.I think the D&D universe does deserve a proper, online outing - if even co-op play.
However, at what point did Cryptic ever advertise this game as the definitive D&D experience? It was and will always be just another MMO set in the universe.
It's like people expecting Elder Scrolls Online to be basically Skyrim Online - they're gonna be sorely disappointed when they realise it has all the elements of any other MMO.
So you're saying that; in fact, you do autohit for hundreds of damage at low levels against normal monsters for 20 rounds?(yes many normal mobs take that many hits in this game) Oh and thieves totally charge through dungeons without searching for anything while magic items constantly autodrop in 4e right? And I'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about? Haha try playing 4e instead of casually googling some nonsense to fail at winning an internet debate.
Im fully expecting NW to incerase HPs and damage of weapons from the outset probably because it makes you the player feel more empowered.
However, the first time I played 4E with my regular group they were smacking kobolds for 20-30+ damage a round at level 1 and realising, to their dismay, that the kobold had more than 4hps.
4E is now 3.X, nor is it pathfinder. I spotted someone mention its more a minuatures game. They are right. at 18th level our group are fighting monsters with 600 - 900 hit points - straight out of the monster manual. They are doing between them 100 -150 points of damage a round average. The combat can last upto 10 - 15 rounds with a group that understand tactics and work better together more than any other offline or online group ive ever gamed with.
Im excited about NW because, when i first picked up and read the 4E PHB i realised i had, in my hand, a dnd ruleset that was pretty much an online MMO ruleset in an table top rule book.
5 classes: No monk, no assassin (both in laters books. Neither availabe in the PHB). No Ranger (shame tbh but i can live without a Ranger). 2 fighters has me sighing. I would have preferred say a single fighter and either the bard or Ranger instead.
Multiclassing: Someone posted a link to the 4e wiki on Multiclassing. Sadly multiclassing in 4E sucks. You simply dont do it unless your building a character for fluff purposes. No, what you do is hybrid. Thats the real multiclass capability of dnd 4E. My 18th level Assassin / Ranger hybrid is, frankly, unkillable (but thats because shes a revenant to boot). In our group with have a cleric/seeker multiclass who is, frankly, an incredible healing machine that has versatility to fight close up or at range with bow or javelin.
My group has player who have played all the versions of Dnd and pathfinder. They love PF for the story but hate the combat when putting it against 4E. 4E is tactical action - its the combat system i see in the videos, without the inflated hitpoints and damage - ill give you that - but frankly it dosnt matter to me.
I have my reservations as to the game, but frankly 4e DnD is not 3.X dnd so im cool with the classes and way the combat system seems to play out. The lore in Fearun has changed a lot between editions - im cool there. Its Cryptic: well i didnt enjoy CO, because it wasnt COX. STO was okay but i enjoyed DDO/LoTRO more. Right now, for a free to play game with a Pseudo DM capability im looking forward to giving NW a go. If it sucks then ill vote with my mouse and go play TSW or BD2.
Why not give sto a go to give you an idea what to expect. Have to say i'm not expecting neverwinter to end up far off which is also turning me off the game.
The game has no release date has not started closed beta testing for those who do not wish to be founder and you thing you know everything about the game. WoW what a sign of true ignorance. Whats next? Are you going to say that with the little known info on World of Darkness it will also be a terrible MMO?
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Incorrect, it's far more like CO, which has zones as large as a typical MMO.
Terrible advice, STO is a collection of heavily instances maps connected by the interstellar space map. It s absolutely nothing like neverwinters layout, Check out CHampions online if you want an idea of how neverwinters world is laid out.
Except is uses the same skills, classes, setting, storylines, and races. Along with their relative bonuses and weaknesses.
It also uses 4e combat roles, ie striker, leader, defender, ect.
it also uses the same stat and roll allocation system as D&D, along with corresponding skill checks.
it also uses the same class restrictions as D&D. Ie a rogue can only use dagger, shortswords, slings, etc...
It also uses the same power slotting, ie a daily, 3 encounters abilities, etc...
It also uses prestige tiers for further developing a base class
it also uses a feat system to further develope your characters abilities.
but yeah, it's totally just like Tera and has no 4e D&D influence at all..well, except for almost every part of the game that has obvious 4e influences
Flanking. Don't forget that flanking is in the game. More specifically positional standing impacting results based on attacks (special effects, more damage, etc.) That's 4e bread and butter and well represented in the MMO from what I've seen from videos.
This post is a flame bait!! I like to know why you felt the need to post this really??? If I posted for every game I hated, I would be on the net all day, but why should you.... I just don't get post like this, and the reasons given are not good enough to say a game is bad, gamers today lol..
It is F2P anyways, LOL, all games today are F2P because guess what thats the market, LOL, games today go F2P because of what the market is asking, for, you are see a new trend B2P more and more, and F2P has so many flaws its sick..
Again what is wrong with TSW game is doing fine, and there are NO classes really... the game is up 400% on the amount of people playing since going B2P, which was a good move, we didn't want F2P trash F2P ruins communitys and most people who wantt F2P aren't gonna spend money anyways and are there most of the time to ruin the community.
+1 to this, not many people understand that D&D didn't always have 10+ classes with subclasses in those. That trend really only started after Wizards of the Coast "Stole" Gygax's version of D&D(The entire 2nd edition of D&D was that, to make the seperation, in my opinion). I have hopes for this game, although it is a Cryptic game and also a Perfect World Entertainment game. Will try it out at least when it launches.
Class restrictions? I can't remember anything in DnD that stops a Fighter for trading in his sword + board for a 2 hander, but in Neverwinter you have to re-roll to do that.
It uses power slotting, but it is equivalent in name only. Encounters are on short cooldowns, dailies take about 2 minutes or so to charge up, it is not the same.
It has paragon paths, yes, we don't know how similar these are to 4e paragon paths yet, though.
From watching streams and videos I can tell you that feats are not the feats we know from DnD. They are pretty much just a generic talent tree that you plug points in to, again similar in name only.
It certainly has more DnD than Tera (Don't know why someone asserted otherwise), but most of the similarities are shallow (often just using the same name for no reason). There really aren't many deep similarities.
watching a video about a game and actually playing the game is 2 completely different things. You will never understand something till you actually put your hands on it.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
FF XIV videos prove Neverwinter mechanics are turn based.....really? Oooooh, because .............. really?
That's all fine and good, but how long will the launch classes be the only classes? Which ones will they add and when? And of course there is the burning question WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU LAUNCH A GAME NOWADAYS WITH ONLY A FEW CLASSES?
Santayana is laughing.
History lessons about PnP aside (1974 laughably came up in this discussion), this game is hitting the MMO market. Launching an instance heavy game with minimal classes is entering the cave without your 50' of rope.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I'm ok with that, as I always forgot to buy the damn rope.
I try new games, plenty of them: SPG and MMO. Tried two new MMOs in the last month, and they were both garbage. And a couple other F2Ps and they likewise had some severe short comings, that were... what a surprise... totally missed/omitted by the various writers doing the preview/review/first look/whatever else BS. At least I did not end up having to buy a box for any of them it turns out, but if you "believed the hype" and they had had a box, it would have been wasted money.
And that is what really pisses me off: seeing a whole bunch of hyped up sunshiny stuff and then having the game suck. The reviewers/writers missed all the crappy mechanics? The same quests for the Nth time? The same game for the Nth time? The shallow game play? The mediocrity? And everything else? Really?
So try whatever games you want, I do.
But at this point, I never, ever buy a box for a game based on the "professional reviews" I see on this site and others. It can't be believed that these so-called "professional game reviewers" miss all the things, in many recent games, that caused the games to crash and burn after 2-3 months after having bunches of articles praise them to the skies.
So what is it? Personally, I think they try to find things to like and are probably encouraged to "accentuate the positive aspects" and "minimize the negative ones" in their preview/review. This place is little more than a thinly veiled MMO advertisement site after all.
So the writers find a few enjoyable things in Game X (and you pretty much always can) and write about those, but that does not make Game X worth playing/paying for, or even a good game.
And it certainly does not help the consumer.
Yep and it's really sad just how easily the fans are fooled despite the high volume of trashy mmo's to come out in the last decade. They see what they want to see and as long as they keep buying the same hype trained garbage developers will keep making them this way.
Oh well they'll get whats coming to them in the end. A truck load of hate is sure to pile into Cryptic for abusing the D&D name which they had no business using in the first place. Just as it did to Turbine, where DDO became a laughing stock to anyone that's a fan of D&D.
I see MMORPG as a mini city in the sea of mmos, where we can talk about new mmos. If you yourself like a game, you're going to rave about it, yes? Welcome to mmorpg, there's a ton of folk like that here, and a ton of trolls waiting to try and rip them down.
As far as the reviewers, have you watched First Impressions? RipperX is fair, but he has his own unique way of doing things, it's always more of a showcase and entertainment moreso than 'serious buisness'.
Other reviewers I actually have seen in game well after their reviews, so I seriously call into question your opinion, for I truly believe they, like us, are gamers just having fun in games they enjoy. That's not payolla, they are allowed to be gamers when they aren't working aren't they?
I also have yet to see a reviewer hide a bug, or bad news of any sort. They seem to call things out regularly and have been pretty honest with us.
The only thing I can comment on about mmorpg negatively is recently I have been given a warning (which I am appealing) for the first time in so many years here. I think the forum trolls are actually having an affect on our mods, or something else is amiss, but hopefully there are mods for the mods. I'm honestly perfectly fine just watching mmorpg from my youtube account never to visit this site again if the powers here lose control. Regardless, I think the reviewers are some of the best in the business here at mmorpg.
The MMOFTW Live streams when they invite devs to sit in with them is some of the best viewing I have seen in years, it's full of info and entertainment. The MMORPG Livestream of Neverwinter's dungeon crawl recently was also a great show of what this game is going to be about.
So you went from "Theres no D&D in Nevewinter" to "Theres not enough D&D in Neverwinter" to "I don't like how they've used D&D in Neverwinter". At least we've made progress.