no dependancy issues here

grimal · February 2013

Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
There's no difference between required and forced in this specific context.

If in order to get to the next step, you are required to do something else first, then you are indeed forced to do it to get to the next step. It's either that, or stop playing. Both have the same effect, therefore trying to argue on a supposed difference is just arguing for the sake of arguing... and as I said above, avoid having to admit being wrong, of course ;-)

Shhhhhhhhhh let it go hahahaha, oh my goodness, just let it be despite being right.

Least grimal admitted to being wrong(Much respect not joking) which is hard to do on the internet, most just stop showing up after awhile, there was this one guy can't remember his name but he was committed to GW2 being P2W, the same with this other guy his named started with a B, he claimed they sold power and etc, once that was wrong they dissappeared, though they could of made a different accoun or something.

How was I wrong?

Oh my...just don't worry about it.

None at all

Kyleran · February 2013

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Rider071

You sound like the typical player who thinks there's no viable MMORPG model beside the EQ/WoW clone one. Well, good news for you, there's a ton of those games on the market right now, your choice is huge. For the people like me, who know more than just that model, and who enjoy(ed) games like Ultima Online and Asheron's Call, the choice is very limited. The question is, what the hell are you doing here looking for another EQ/WoW clone in a game that would be more like an Asheron's Call clone? It's liking buying carrots and trying to turn them into potatoes just because the two are vegetables... it doesn't make sense.

First time I've ever seen anyone compare GW2 to games such as UO and AC1, in fact, I would think most fans of those two titles would eschew the mechanics GW2 brought to the genre.

I NEVER said GW2 was close to UO. If, instead of selectively selecting one sentence and highlighting it, you would use the whole post, you would notice that I said two things here.

1) For those who enjoyed UO and AC1, there's little choice of MMORPG nowadays. Note that I didn't say both games where similar, actually UO and AC1 are very different games.

I mis-understood your point, and I agree, for people who favored the designs employed for many of the older MMO's there's been little choice since around 2004 or so.

2) GW2 is "more like an Asheron's Call clone". And I mean AC1 of course. Actually, GW2 is closer to AC1 than AC2 was. Massive world, exploration encouraged, no forced grouping, no trinity, no need to farm raids to get the best gear, player skill meaning more than levels, action based combat with player dodging, monthly patches, and now ongoing story too. And if you think AC1 fans, which I'm being part of for playing the game for over 5 years, would "eschew" the GW2 mechanics, then I actually wonder if you have played AC1 at all.

No need to wonder, never played AC1, I was busy with Lineage 1/ DAOC and Shadowbane back in those days. What little I know comes from these forums, and there's a lot of love for the Darktide server and it's FFA PVP model and the game as I understand it has a huge progression in terms of levels (up into the 250's?) I realize its been said the difference in levels isn't as great as in some other games so apparently a pack of level 70's could drop a high level player, but don't know much else behind that. Both of these concepts seem quite different from what GW2 offers so therin lies my error.

I've reread my post twice, my English, for once, was decently good, and what I said is easily understandable. But yeah, selective reading is so much more fun...

Your English is great, but your sarcasm, hostility and defensiveness are sometimes off the chart, hence it's challenging to reply to you in a reasonable manner. I tried my best, but apparently failed to succeed. (I'll take the blame for my lack of comprehension)

Too bad, because the rest of your post is decently interesting and I could mostly agree with it. But sorry, I won't let you make me say things I never said :-)

And what I was really trying to do is get the thread back on topic, and off the discussion about socialization mechanics in modern MMORPGs.

You missed your cue.

Edit: ah, you're French, that explains things, I am too, though several generations in the States now. We're bound to clash.

SuperNick · February 2013

This game was always going to hinge on how well they developed POST launch. The reason people are abandoning this game and they've been forced to reduce their staff and potentially look at server merges is because their post-launch content updates have been very bad.

It's been out for over 6 months now and it has basically had nothing done to it. You're still left with a repetitive WvW mode, you still have the same limited structured PvP zones, you still have 2 endgame zones which were crap to begin with and you still have a dungeon system that is more frustrating than enjoyable.

The levelling experience was great but beyond that this game has made no advancements.

bcbully · February 2013

Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
There's no difference between required and forced in this specific context.

If in order to get to the next step, you are required to do something else first, then you are indeed forced to do it to get to the next step. It's either that, or stop playing. Both have the same effect, therefore trying to argue on a supposed difference is just arguing for the sake of arguing... and as I said above, avoid having to admit being wrong, of course ;-)

Shhhhhhhhhh let it go hahahaha, oh my goodness, just let it be despite being right.

Least grimal admitted to being wrong(Much respect not joking) which is hard to do on the internet, most just stop showing up after awhile, there was this one guy can't remember his name but he was committed to GW2 being P2W, the same with this other guy his named started with a B, he claimed they sold power and etc, once that was wrong they dissappeared, though they could of made a different accoun or something.

How was I wrong?

Oh my...just don't worry about it.

Sold power? Was that what we were talking about? I think we were talking about how Mystic Chest boost were active in WvW. That was changed in between betas correct? I was wrong after the change, and even stated as such just because.

I've never went anywhere. WB btw.

korent1991 · February 2013

Originally posted by Rider071
The game is training wheels for those wanting to play in MMOs.

nothing more.

I say this because, if you chat in GW2, you die. The game does not make it easy nor possible to chat and play.

This makes it great for playability, but horrible for tactics. Awesome for zergs, but horrible for small group rvr, especially those not using a vent vs those that are.

You would think that the game knowing how handicapped they have made the player in regards to chat would have put in an in-game voice chat, but this is the same game that can't handle the graphics of the rvr/pvp it has publicized it specializes in.

So, no, on many levels. You call yourselves 'heroes' for playing this game, I call you something else.

But I would reccommend it for the person getting their feet wet in MMOs, it's a decent investment, but it's not something I would reccommend an MMO vet unless I wanted that person really angry at me for a while.

Though come to think of it, EQ1, EQ2, TERA, Vanguard, Aion, DDO, LoTRO, AoC, WARTrial, Aika...there are so many good F2P out there, I rescind mystatement, I would not reccommend the game to a first timer, I would reccommend one of these F2P games which imho are better made (yes, I said Aika is better than GW2).

So basically... first you say that this game is a training wheel (meaning it's hand holding you and it's easy to do) and then you say you can't type and survive at the same time?

you want "a real mmorpg" in which you can afk and still actually win something?

I think you should ask yourself some questions and find something better to do in your free time.. just move on and stop wasting time on something you don't like.

fivoroth · February 2013

Originally posted by Rider071
The game is training wheels for those wanting to play in MMOs.

nothing more.

I say this because, if you chat in GW2, you die. The game does not make it easy nor possible to chat and play.

This makes it great for playability, but horrible for tactics. Awesome for zergs, but horrible for small group rvr, especially those not using a vent vs those that are.

You would think that the game knowing how handicapped they have made the player in regards to chat would have put in an in-game voice chat, but this is the same game that can't handle the graphics of the rvr/pvp it has publicized it specializes in.

So, no, on many levels. You call yourselves 'heroes' for playing this game, I call you something else.

But I would reccommend it for the person getting their feet wet in MMOs, it's a decent investment, but it's not something I would reccommend an MMO vet unless I wanted that person really angry at me for a while.

Though come to think of it, EQ1, EQ2, TERA, Vanguard, Aion, DDO, LoTRO, AoC, WARTrial, Aika...there are so many good F2P out there, I rescind mystatement, I would not reccommend the game to a first timer, I would reccommend one of these F2P games which imho are better made (yes, I said Aika is better than GW2).

Yes, I am sure newcomers will enjoy playing a game like EQ1 which is pretty much squares and triangles combined together. The game is ugly and super anti newbie friendly.

EQ2's a great game but I don't think people will be able to put up with the engine..... DDO is a casual game and most wouldn't even consider it an MMO. LOTRO is okay but extremely boring combat.

GW2 and WoW are best MMOs for newbies imo. They are also great for people who don't have plenty of time on their hands and would like to have fun in a game, not have the need for a second life.

eye_m · February 2013

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Hehe the trolls have reached their goal and started the reporting now - time for a break, I have a movie to watch with the family. Enjoy yourself, moderators - I don't expect you to look post histories and punish those who really deserve it anyway, you will just blindly warn those the trolls reported after baiting them, as usual. The tactic is so old I'm always amazed when a mod falls for it, but whatever...

I've done a good job at avoiding bans for quite a while by just treating people with dignity and respect. Occasionally, some forum troll may think that I'm being unfair by pointing out flaws with their perspective, but that is what makes a discussion. I think that overall, the GW2 community is very decent, and open to warranted criticism.

Rider071 · February 2013

Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Rider071
The game is training wheels for those wanting to play in MMOs.

nothing more.

I say this because, if you chat in GW2, you die. The game does not make it easy nor possible to chat and play.

This makes it great for playability, but horrible for tactics. Awesome for zergs, but horrible for small group rvr, especially those not using a vent vs those that are.

You would think that the game knowing how handicapped they have made the player in regards to chat would have put in an in-game voice chat, but this is the same game that can't handle the graphics of the rvr/pvp it has publicized it specializes in.

So, no, on many levels. You call yourselves 'heroes' for playing this game, I call you something else.

But I would reccommend it for the person getting their feet wet in MMOs, it's a decent investment, but it's not something I would reccommend an MMO vet unless I wanted that person really angry at me for a while.

Though come to think of it, EQ1, EQ2, TERA, Vanguard, Aion, DDO, LoTRO, AoC, WARTrial, Aika...there are so many good F2P out there, I rescind mystatement, I would not reccommend the game to a first timer, I would reccommend one of these F2P games which imho are better made (yes, I said Aika is better than GW2).

Yes, I am sure newcomers will enjoy playing a game like EQ1 which is pretty much squares and triangles combined together. The game is ugly and super anti newbie friendly.

EQ2's a great game but I don't think people will be able to put up with the engine..... DDO is a casual game and most wouldn't even consider it an MMO. LOTRO is okay but extremely boring combat.

GW2 and WoW are best MMOs for newbies imo. They are also great for people who don't have plenty of time on their hands and would like to have fun in a game, not have the need for a second life.

EQ1 actually has one of THE best tutorials in any mmo, sorry to disappoint you there, maybe revisit it.

EQ2 as well, very good tutorial, as well as Vanguard.

TERA, again a whole island, and also a different kind of playing, if the new player comes from console games, he/she can use their controller. By far the best graphics of the bunch (could also list Aion here not so much on the playstyle).

DDO also, very good tutorial area, and if they come from a D+D background, an easy fit for them. LoTRO same, same dev, makes sense they would repeat a winning formula. AoC also the same, great lore background and a good tutorial area in Tortage. Oh btw, DDO is most definitely an MMO, it's absurd to imply otherwise.

Aika same, decent tutorial, very helpful community...for your pvp-oriented friends most def. WARTrial if you just wanna show them a good time, fast and dirty fun....always there, always on...always packed.

Here's the main thing, and why I didn't list WoW, Rift. or DAoC, or many other titles.. they are not Free. If a new player is getting involved in an mmo for the first time, a Free game is the best choice. As Free they have nothing to lose, no high expectations, a win-win.

With Payment and sub, expectations are higher, and testing of your friendship when reccommending friends to shell out money when later they find out there were other games they wouldn't have had to.

itgrowls · February 2013

Their new focus is dungeons, we'll see what they do in the next few months because they are handing out the typical vague talk of "bringing people back into the rest of the world" At this point and due to them implementing DR and having so many issues keeping up with bugs at this point I'll believe it when i see it. I'm not saying it's a bad game but what they did Nov 15th is something I won't forgive for a very long time. And until they return loot to the open world and remove the permaDR they haveon thousands of players accounts, yes you are forced to play a certain way because dungeons and WvW seem to be the only locations for loot these days, that is of course you enjoy spending all your gems on gold.

Eir_S · February 2013

I wouldn't recommend a F2P game like Aika to anyone just getting into MMOs.. on the one hand, they have nowhere to go but up. On the other, they don't know that and they'll more than likely say "MMOs suck, I'm not playing another one." It's not as bad as Cabal, but still...

Amana · February 2013

The discussion seems to have run its course and the thread is pretty much just a flamefest at this point. Locking it.

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV