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Dispelling some myths

13

Comments

  • KroxMalonKroxMalon swindonPosts: 409Member

    There are plenty of good games out at the moment and TSW is one of them, and I enjoy playing it. I honestly think there are just to many games on the market and we as folk just dont have enough time to spare to play them all as much as we like.

    Then comes along good old justification to make our selfs feel better about not playing the latter...

  • SevenwindSevenwind Somewhereville, TXPosts: 2,198Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords

     

    Anyway, I have the game for 'life'.  So when I feel like some more self-flagellation I can look forward to playing it. Thank goodness Dead Space 3 arrived yesterday or my sanity may of been lost forever.

    Since you like to quote metacritic from time to time have you seen the score for that game? I'm not talking about the critic score, but the user score.  5.6 xbox compared to TSW 8.2. Warms the heart to see players getting around the microtransactions in that game and making EA mad. 

    In al fairness play what you like. Hope it's fun for you like TSW is for me.image

    .. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PWN_FACE
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Okay, this is a repost from over on the Steam forums (not me), but I thought it summed up really well many of the preconceptions people have about TSW:

    [Orignally posted by Mike Litoris]:

    ...

    PvP doesn't exist and is broken:

    Wrong. Just because people don't play your faction (cough - Dragon) doesn't mean it's dead, it just means you're not a part of the biggest of two factions enjoying it. Transfer to another server or change sides if it's what you're dying for. 

    This is highly objectionable to me. Apparently this guy is not a dragon. I am.

    This is not an altaholic's game. It's a pia to roll a new character and go through all the same AP/SP grind again. 

    And abandoning the least populated faction to join one of the zergs only makes the problem worse. A 3-faction game with 2-factions that matter in pvp is broken. There is no way to hide that.

    So I'm just going to criticize the little bit I quoted and leave it at that. But that right there is why some people think he's condescending. 

    The real answer is to roll more Dragons, and yes, switching from the underdog to being part of the zerg is the problem, not the solution.  The limits on team ratios in  Fusang prevent complete dominance now, but now the queues are longer for the higher pop factions.  Dragons will get in quickly, so there's an incentive right there, just know you'll probably be outnumbered (just not as badly as previously.)  I believe the February update will make it easier to get into El Dorado and Stonehenge for players waiting in the Fusang queue, and you'll also be able to queue for El Dorado and Stonehenge from inside Fusang.

     

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Sevenwind
    Originally posted by fallenlords

     

    Anyway, I have the game for 'life'.  So when I feel like some more self-flagellation I can look forward to playing it. Thank goodness Dead Space 3 arrived yesterday or my sanity may of been lost forever.

    Since you like to quote metacritic from time to time have you seen the score for that game? I'm not talking about the critic score, but the user score.  5.6 xbox compared to TSW 8.2. Warms the heart to see players getting around the microtransactions in that game and making EA mad. 

    In al fairness play what you like. Hope it's fun for you like TSW is for me.image

    Dead Space 3 is not a great game, in fact it's quite annoying with it's set pieces.   But even though Dead Space 3 isn't that good it still overshadows TSW on all fronts. Production values, voice acting,  gameplay, action, weapons. monsters, gore (if we are comparing) ... I would score it about 7/10 as they have lost the scare factor.    But it's a Dead Space game that fits with the rest of them.  Action must be the way they want to take the franchise forward.    EA announced big pre-order numbers for Dead Space 3 as well.  Five times higher than Dead Space 2.

     

    So an already successful game and franchise, compared to a third rate MMO... err Dead Space wins hands down.  Even being not that good.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sevenwind
    In al fairness play what you like. Hope it's fun for you like TSW is for me.image

    Eh, agreed -- way too many players willing to be swayed by 3rd party opinions -- everyone's going to have their own take and biases, though users have certainly given TSW a thumbs up on Metacritic with an 8.2 rating.   TSW does seem to bring out the "love it or hate it" opinions though (or at least the Funcom trollers); it certainly is a polarizing game.  My suggestion -- get a 24 hour buddy key, try it and decide for yourself.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Eh, agreed -- way too many players willing to be swayed by 3rd party opinions -- everyone's going to have their own take and biases, though users have certainly given TSW a thumbs up on Metacritic with an 8.2 rating.   TSW does seem to bring out the "love it or hate it" opinions though (or at least the Funcom trollers); it certainly is a polarizing game.  My suggestion -- get a 24 hour buddy key, try it and decide for yourself.

    Third party opinions are normally what separates you from parting with your cash.   So it's very likely that a lot of people will be swayed by a combination of critic reviews and independent ones.   You can't rely on user reviews at all.  I once bought Alan Wake based on a user review saying it was like Metro 2033.  The person that wrote that review must of been on acid or something, the only similarity between the two games was they were both set in a dark environments. Though Alan Wake wasn't a bad game, just not my cup of tea.

     

    The majority of the time a user is reviewing or scoring a game after purchase.  Which kind of hinders the whole process.   To say 'I bought a lemon' is to bring into question your own initial judgment. 

     

    For an MMO you need a decent trial to bother going to the trouble of downloading 40gb of data, some people are still capped on their data download.   Why there isn't a decent trial I don't know.  Again Funcom are not making it easy for people to try the game, which to all intents and purposes seems to be the plan.  I half think they hope people will part with their cash to buy it, not like it and then not play it.
     
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,787Member Uncommon
    i only read the first lines of the combat sux. Yes it sux. Nobody said it sucks because people die from zombies. The animations are awful, the mechanics are bad. The combat system is just wrong. They should have a few builder skills, a few finishers, and then add more regular abilities with cooldowns and no builder / finisher. Spamming builders then finishing them is not fun when thats your only option in combat. Theres no tactics involved... just build build build finish with every skill then repeat.... thats wrong. My only problem with TSW is the combat (mechanics and character animations fighting and running). Everything else is fun. They needed to keep Age of Conan´s animations and combat in TSW but decided to add a poorly made and inferior one instead.

    image
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    i only read the first lines of the combat sux. Yes it sux. Nobody said it sucks because people die from zombies. The animations are awful, the mechanics are bad. The combat system is just wrong. They should have a few builder skills, a few finishers, and then add more regular abilities with cooldowns and no builder / finisher. Spamming builders then finishing them is not fun when thats your only option in combat. Theres no tactics involved... just build build build finish with every skill then repeat.... thats wrong. My only problem with TSW is the combat (mechanics and character animations fighting and running). Everything else is fun. They needed to keep Age of Conan´s animations and combat in TSW but decided to add a poorly made and inferior one instead.

    Did you ever build more than one deck or change out any of your abilities?  There are plenty of special abilities with cooldowns.  Chaotic Pull is just one.  I'll agree somewhat with animations, but the mechanics are solid.  Tanking decks play very differently than dps decks than healing decks than solo decks.

  • KeyloggerKeylogger Bumblefuck, TNPosts: 250Member

    The story, missions and lore is basically all that's good.


    I didn't care for anything else but the quality of the quests justified the cost and two weeks of play for me.

  • hehenephehenep Charlottesville, VAPosts: 221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords

     

    • Voice acting done badly is comical.  I rolled a Templar and went to London.  London felt like I was in the film Mary Poppins with every cockney having been trained personally by Dick Van Dyke.  Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...A very British view of things by people that are obviously not British or are just taking the p***.

    Everything else in your commentary aside, I found this to be odd.  I can't speak to the 'background' characters, but most of the London characters were voiced by British actors.  The game has a respectably professional voice actor cast ... also Jeffery Combs.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,727Member Uncommon
    Great link, thanks. I really like Carter but couldn't pair her voice to a face though it was very familiar - God bless America :) loved that movie.
  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by hehenep
    Originally posted by fallenlords

     Voice acting done badly is comical.  I rolled a Templar and went to London.  London felt like I was in the film Mary Poppins with every cockney having been trained personally by Dick Van Dyke.  Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...A very British view of things by people that are obviously not British or are just taking the p***.

    Everything else in your commentary aside, I found this to be odd.  I can't speak to the 'background' characters, but most of the London characters were voiced by British actors.  The game has a respectably professional voice actor cast ... also Jeffery Combs.

    Just hiring a professional actor to do the voices doesn't make it professional.  There has to be feeling, direction and understanding by the actor for what they are doing/why they are doing it.  Tell an actor your a cockney in London and if they are not a cockney, you start to get some very strange accents.   So far I have not come across a single character that has put any emotion into what they are saying.   It's that bad I would prefer to be reading the dialogue myself and imagining the voices. 

     

    Perhaps if they had spent less on hiring these actors they could of spent more on the game.   It adds nothing to it and if anything detracts from the game.  Funcom took a defensive stance about using voice acting for NPC's with regards to Age of Conan.   Morrison (AOC Director) even sat down for some article to say why it wasn't such a good idea blah blah blah...  I see now what he meant, done badly it does detract from the game.
  • hehenephehenep Charlottesville, VAPosts: 221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by hehenep
    Originally posted by fallenlords

     Voice acting done badly is comical.  I rolled a Templar and went to London.  London felt like I was in the film Mary Poppins with every cockney having been trained personally by Dick Van Dyke.  Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...A very British view of things by people that are obviously not British or are just taking the p***.

    Everything else in your commentary aside, I found this to be odd.  I can't speak to the 'background' characters, but most of the London characters were voiced by British actors.  The game has a respectably professional voice actor cast ... also Jeffery Combs.

    Just hiring a professional actor to do the voices doesn't make it professional.  There has to be feeling, direction and understanding by the actor for what they are doing/why they are doing it.  Tell an actor your a cockney in London and if they are not a cockney, you start to get some very strange accents.   So far I have not come across a single character that has put any emotion into what they are saying.   It's that bad I would prefer to be reading the dialogue myself and imagining the voices. 

     

    Perhaps if they had spent less on hiring these actors they could of spent more on the game.   It adds nothing to it and if anything detracts from the game.  Funcom took a defensive stance about using voice acting for NPC's with regards to Age of Conan.   Morrison (AOC Director) even sat down for some article to say why it wasn't such a good idea blah blah blah...  I see now what he meant, done badly it does detract from the game.

    I was more saying the voice acting was professionally done, as in done well and by people who have talent.  Easily as well done as any video game voice acting I've ever heard anyway, and better than most.  Of course I can't speak as to the London accents, as my knowledge of those is nearly nill.

    Eh, opinions are opinions and I can certainly understand where you get some of yours, but when it comes to the voice acting it's almost like we're listening to two completely different games.  That does happen though so ... eh.

     

    Now if you want to talk games with bad voice acting ... I recently tried Star Trek Online for a bit and it had some voice acting.  I got the feeling they used Steve from Accounting.  Good lord it was bad.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by hehenep

    I was more saying the voice acting was professionally done, as in done well and by people who have talent.  Easily as well done as any video game voice acting I've ever heard anyway, and better than most.  Of course I can't speak as to the London accents, as my knowledge of those is nearly nill.

    Eh, opinions are opinions and I can certainly understand where you get some of yours, but when it comes to the voice acting it's almost like we're listening to two completely different games.  That does happen though so ... eh.

     

    Now if you want to talk games with bad voice acting ... I recently tried Star Trek Online for a bit and it had some voice acting.  I got the feeling they used Steve from Accounting.  Good lord it was bad.

    From what I have heard so far the voice acting is totally emotionless, like they have been asked to read a script but not been told the context or the part they are to play.  Like they have no real clue how what they are saying is fitting into the general story that is trying to be told.    It's flat and monotone.  Not the actors fault by any stretches of the imagination, the fault is with the direction. 

     

    Going around London and hearing things makes you think you are in the film Mary Poppins.  With everybody talking their voice cues from Dick Van Dyke - typically well known for doing the worse Cockney accent (particularly stylized for an American audience) ever.  It would have been better to have no Cockney type of accents than to have people doing them badly.  What makes me laugh is Cockneys are well known for using the most offense word in the English language as a term of general endearment. I noticed the game shied away from that.   Altogether what you have is people with very peculiar voices that sound like idiots and makes the characters have comedic value, where none was intended.

     

    When one of the so called draws of the game is suppose to be real world locations, to get this completely foreign and alien view of London just shows how little thought and effort was actually put into the game.  Hand in hand with bad accents and emotionless dialogue it's easy to see why this game is not much of a draw. 

     

    As for Star Trek Online, haven't played it in some considerable time.  But can't say I noticed anything wrong when I did play it.  I thought the game immersed you into the Star Trek universe.   While it may have had the purists up in arms over various things, I found it to be a great and enjoyable game.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,646Member Uncommon
    I enjoy the game, but it's clear that whoever posted it is someone with the mentality of "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong".

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    I enjoy the game, but it's clear that whoever posted it is someone with the mentality of "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong".

    Well, I think he may have been responding to some people with that same mentality over on Steam -- he's definitely in rant mode.  ;)  

    Did another post further in that I think is balanced but still makes the point:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/375755/page/4

  • hehenephehenep Charlottesville, VAPosts: 221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    As for Star Trek Online, haven't played it in some considerable time.  But can't say I noticed anything wrong when I did play it.  I thought the game immersed you into the Star Trek universe.   While it may have had the purists up in arms over various things, I found it to be a great and enjoyable game.

    I didn't say anything about STO the game.  Just that at some point they added voide acting into some of the quests and the bit I heard was very amature quality.  As in porrly delivered lines.

     

    I'm going to continue to wonder how you're hearing emotionless from TSW's voice acting though.  Unless of course you're mistaking a lack of overacting for emotionlessness.  I kind of doubt that's the case though.

    The only really strange voice acting choice I ran into in the game was more of an out-of-place character than any bad voice acting.  Randomly there's a southern cowboy up in New England camping out and shooting zombies, and he's the first character in the New England area you run into for some reason.  It was well done voice acting though so at least there's that.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by hehenep

    I didn't say anything about STO the game.  Just that at some point they added voide acting into some of the quests and the bit I heard was very amature quality.  As in porrly delivered lines.

     

    I'm going to continue to wonder how you're hearing emotionless from TSW's voice acting though.  Unless of course you're mistaking a lack of overacting for emotionlessness.  I kind of doubt that's the case though.

    The only really strange voice acting choice I ran into in the game was more of an out-of-place character than any bad voice acting.  Randomly there's a southern cowboy up in New England camping out and shooting zombies, and he's the first character in the New England area you run into for some reason.  It was well done voice acting though so at least there's that.

    The voice acting comes across to me as an addition they made because they felt it was a requirement.  Very little thought seems to have gone into casting.   It's sub par at best,  as I said before they are acting but they don't seem to know in what context their words are being spoken.   Lets also face it the list of actors is a right B list at best.

     

    As for STO like I say haven't played in a while so I may not have heard the bad voice acting.  But I also have to say a lot of it is to do with atmosphere.  If you feel immersion into an environment then you tend not to nit-pick on the details.  I feel no immersion with TSW at all.  I don't feel part of the game I just feel like a third party watching the various interactions.  

     

  • UlorikUlorik TorrancePosts: 172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    From what I have heard so far the voice acting is totally emotionless, like they have been asked to read a script but not been told the context or the part they are to play.  Like they have no real clue how what they are saying is fitting into the general story that is trying to be told.    It's flat and monotone.  Not the actors fault by any stretches of the imagination, the fault is with the direction. 

     

    [mod edit]

    If there is one game with excellent cutscenes and voice acting its TSW. My guess is that you haven't made the effort to play through many of the missions, just play through the two egyptian maps and then come back.

    Comments like this really piss me off.

  • DealdrickDealdrick Columbia, MOPosts: 85Member

    So much bias in this thread on both sides of the fence. The OP has a couple decent points, but the majority of it comes off like a rabid fanboy that had his juice box stolen.  TSW has many high points, the problem is it also has many low points. 

    Pros

    -The investigation quests are awesome. Seriously, the best quest I have seen in any game, MMO or single player.

    -The setting and story lines are unique to the genre and well done. A very nice blend of classic horror and urban legend.

    -The cutscenes are typically very entertaining. The downside is, they are basically just NPC monologues as opposed to an interactive conversation.

    -The classless system and skill wheel combo offers lots of freedom for deck creation and a real sense of horizontal player progression. 

     

    Cons

    -PvP, it's bad. Fusing is mainly just a node flipping contest. There is still no open world PvP (I believe a flagging system is coming, just 8 months too late). Faction population imbalances, has this been addressed by Funcom at all?

    -Lack of content. I understand that every zone can be revisited and quest redone, but the lack of zones is disappointing, especially considering that its the quests most people enjoyed the most. It only takes a few weeks to blow through all of it.

    -Character creator and character animations. I am combining these two because they both feel like it was literally the last thing addressed in development. The original character creator was very sub par for modern standards. No sliders, limited options, very incomplete. The character animations feel the same way, incomplete. 

    -Combat. This was the big one for me. The freedom of ability choice was overwhelmed by the lack of creative gameplay. Yes Ort, I understand that you get a whole 7 actives. But 80% of combat is just spamming your builder. It's like auto-attack withou the "auto". Yes, I understand you can have all these other abilities on your bar at the same time. Yes, I understand that I can use a different weapon type and build if I get bored with one, but it doesn't change the builder spam mechanic. Even with a healing build, it's mostly builder spam. It's like the devs said "OK, you can choose any weapon, any style, any range, as long as you play like a rogue. Build 5 combo points, then use a finisher."

     

    Buti digress, the game has lots of upside, but for someone that really enjoys PvP and combat, that upside is over shadowed.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dealdrick

    So much bias in this thread on both sides of the fence. The OP has a couple decent points, but the majority of it comes off like a rabid fanboy that had his juice box stolen.  TSW has many high points, the problem is it also has many low points. 

    Pros

    -The investigation quests are awesome. Seriously, the best quest I have seen in any game, MMO or single player.

    -The setting and story lines are unique to the genre and well done. A very nice blend of classic horror and urban legend.

    -The cutscenes are typically very entertaining. The downside is, they are basically just NPC monologues as opposed to an interactive conversation.

    -The classless system and skill wheel combo offers lots of freedom for deck creation and a real sense of horizontal player progression. 

     

    Cons

    -PvP, it's bad. Fusing is mainly just a node flipping contest. There is still no open world PvP (I believe a flagging system is coming, just 8 months too late). Faction population imbalances, has this been addressed by Funcom at all?

    -Lack of content. I understand that every zone can be revisited and quest redone, but the lack of zones is disappointing, especially considering that its the quests most people enjoyed the most. It only takes a few weeks to blow through all of it.

    -Character creator and character animations. I am combining these two because they both feel like it was literally the last thing addressed in development. The original character creator was very sub par for modern standards. No sliders, limited options, very incomplete. The character animations feel the same way, incomplete. 

    -Combat. This was the big one for me. The freedom of ability choice was overwhelmed by the lack of creative gameplay. Yes Ort, I understand that you get a whole 7 actives. But 80% of combat is just spamming your builder. It's like auto-attack withou the "auto". Yes, I understand you can have all these other abilities on your bar at the same time. Yes, I understand that I can use a different weapon type and build if I get bored with one, but it doesn't change the builder spam mechanic. Even with a healing build, it's mostly builder spam. It's like the devs said "OK, you can choose any weapon, any style, any range, as long as you play like a rogue. Build 5 combo points, then use a finisher."

     

    Buti digress, the game has lots of upside, but for someone that really enjoys PvP and combat, that upside is over shadowed.

    Just coming off the construcrtive criticism thread, and saw this.   At least you put down your experience and back it up.  +1  :)

    I do still believe the game is steadily improving, and some of the negatives you put down are on the priority list for the devs. My own experience with the character creator was good, but I don't typically spend as much time customizing my toons -- I zipped thru the Skyrim options pretty quickly.  I use all 7 of my abilities, and don't mind the builder/finisher mechanic simply because I mix in some other elites and specials along with those.  I am blade/chaos primarily, and I've always found the combat very actiony and fun -- again, just me.

    I agree that more content is needed, and I'm hopeful they'll keep up with the storyline releases.  Agreed PvP definitely needs more work.  

    Still love the game.  :)

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member

    Pressing 5 repeatedly does not spawn a butterfly.  I also heard they wrote in the Candyman rumour, I only tried twice in the mirror house, no idea if this is true or not. 

     

  • MrSchnuffiMrSchnuffi magdeburgPosts: 25Member

    Hmm, Fallenlord may be the first person I read who critizeses the voice acting. Can't think of another game with such a lot of memorable npcs. You probably should have played more than 2h.

    Combat sucks... yes, to some degree. Combat sucks in every mmo when you are soloing. TSW combat might not be the beauty queen but especially in dungeons I really like the fast paced and dynamic combat.

    There are fetch and kill quests but as already mentioned they are somehow well done. For example one quest from the writer in the lighthouse where you find pages of his books decriping you current situation . I really liked how it was done.  So even if you have to kill a lot of stuff TSW knows how to add something meaningfull to it. But of course a matter of taste...

    PvP... I had some fun in fusang but I think there is a balance problem ( there a balance problems with skills in PvE too) which are even worse in Stonehence, glance-tanks and unbreakable stuns from claws anyone???

     

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by MrSchnuffi

    Hmm, Fallenlord may be the first person I read who critizeses the voice acting. Can't think of another game with such a lot of memorable npcs. You probably should have played more than 2h.

     

    It's not just the voice acting it's the script, it's laughable.  Rolled an illuminati yesterday, ends up in some female bosses office.  Where she tells me she is multitasking and she 'f*ing loves old school hip hop'.   Things are just so random and the comedy they have tried to instill is groan worthy.  This game is just so bad on so many levels.  I know I am looking at it from a critical perspective but the more I play the worse I think the game is overall.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,727Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    It's not just the voice acting it's the script, it's laughable.  Rolled an illuminati yesterday, ends up in some female bosses office.  Where she tells me she is multitasking and she 'f*ing loves old school hip hop'.  

    And what's wrong with old-school hip-hop? I mean I'd pick the 70-80's rock / progr.rock personally, but if KG (Kirsten Geary, the afforementioned "some female boss") likes hip-hop, that's her choice... Btw she's a great character :)

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