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This is about any RvR system from GW 2, DAOC, ESO, or the upcoming Camelot Unchained if done the same way etc. I'll explain why I think this and what system would feel more complete to me.
The reason it is incomplete is because of the faction/realm lock. While some people would cite realm pride or loyalty I would have much more of either in something if it was my guild that I was fighting for. This can be done by having guilds build cities/towns and able to war or ally with other guilds forming alliances, having neighbours, and actual friends or enemies that you get to pick and are not presented to you by the game. See EVE or Shadowbane for the basic premise.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
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Or look at your avatar. Minecraft servers often have players decide who they want to fight and who they will ally with. I am not prepared to throw RvR under the buss, Warhammer was one of my favorite PvP experiences ever, but I would rather have a game that placed emphasis on guilds.
It's not incomplete it is just different.
You propose Guild vs Guild and DAoC does Realm vs Realm, GW2 server vs server and ESO whatever they will use.
Different concepts based on the same idea. Each one has it's pro and cons.
I feel like the RvR system is missing something hence why I elude to it being incomplete. What it's missing is the freedom to make friends or enemies. Who is on what team and even the teams themself just get picked for you unless you make an effort to circumvent the game and join RL friends/use a forum to join a guild on a certain team beforehand.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Let's internet
Yes because FFA is popular now days....
Edit:
Wow a time warp paradox!!!
I posted this statement back in 1997, but its just getting posted on the thread.
Grandfather paradox!
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is a very valid point. It could be solved by having default factions that you join at character creation that you can then leave.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/DAoC played with your idea with 2 specialized servers long ago. You could travel to any realm, play any race. Guild warfare was to be the focus, instead of realm vs realm. There were 2 ruleset servers one was FFA the other more care-bearish.
This philosophy was proven again and again to inhibit RvR play. On the care-bear server, there was basically no RvR, just people enjoying the ability to quest and play in any realm, nothing wrong there.
On the FFA server, it was more of a gank-fest, no real realm vs realm at all, just heated battles of groups but mainly solo players raising hell.
Either way, they were both considerably less populations than the regular game servers.
So if you were a game developer,. what would you draw from that experiment?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One of the best PvP systems I've ever had was Guild vs Guild in Ultima Online. You War other guilds you want to or just deceide to be a guild not waring with anyone. Also the Order vs Chaos in Ultima Online was awesome. Choose rather you are order or chaos and you fight the opposing faction anywhere. Town warcraft with a guild vs guild system was awesome. Sitting at the bank and all of the sudden two huge guilds show up and battle it out.
No matter what you try and say THAT ^^^ was and alway will be the best system for PvP. Don't want to PvP then don't go Order or Chaos and don't accept any War status' with anyone. I was lucky enough to be on Chesapeake server and in the best guild Keepers of Chaos / Iron Chefs and we would show up ANYWHERE and word would get around and all of the sudden two or three allied guilds would show up and battle.
The main advantage rvr has over ffa is only apparent once the game has matured. Rvr is less intimidating to new players when your game is 6 months or so + old. If you come into an existing rvr game after 6 months you know you only have to worry about 2/3rds of the players, you've got some ready made backup.
Also some people just don't want to get involved in politics and intrigue.
But hey I really like daoc and eve. They're the two best mmos imo.
One sort of pvp I don't like is all this Esports bullshit and the lies that come with it like the mythical "balance in a mmo" pedaled to us by the likes of arenanet and blizzard.
Hmm, first time I've ever seen anyone say this about UO, it has always been famous for its FFA PVP at least according to most posters in these forums. (Pre-Trammel and all that). Were you on some sort of alternate rules server or is this a post-Trammel thing?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I want it to be just exactly like my fave (game X) instead of bob's fave (Game Y).
How many many threads have begun from that basic premise?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Ffa in.m themeparks like say wow pvp servers is VASTLY INFERIOR to a daoc / planetside type system.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
The problem is that developers somehow think that introducing player factions somehow requires FFA PvP (with full loot). There is nothing in the fabric of reality that forces this. You can have consent-only PvP (separate areas or whole world) while having player factions. Ultima Online did this with the Renaissance expansion, but after that no other game has taken this route and it makes me extremely sad.
I'm still waiting for a game that does this right. It's so simple I'm astounded it hasn't been done yet:
a) create a separate area for FFA PvP
b) make the rest of the world consent-only PvP
c) let player factions (guilds/alliances) make a war invitation against each other, which goes in effect when the other side accepts the invitation
d) distribute resources so that the best time vs. reward will be in the FFA PvP areas, but make everything still available in the consent-only PvP area
e) watch the game world spring into life as player alliances rise, fight and die over the resources.
f) watch roleplaying communities flourish as they can decide who to fight and who to not.
In this system, everyone is truly free to play their way, all the way from the total PvE carebear to the hardcore FFA PvPer and everything in between.
Post Trammel, which also brought Felucca factions for even more options how or how to not PvP.
Forcing PvP onto everyone will never work.
You need a reason to pvp. Whether that is for economic reasons in ffa sandboxes like eve, perpetuum and darkfall or whether that is for faction wide resources and bonuses in open world themeparks like daoc, planetside and war I don't care. Either works for me.
FFA gets you people ganking noobs for shits and giggles. For those people, their victims' tears is incentive enough.
In the system I described there are tons of ways to make PvP interesting and a thriving player economy, without forcing all people to FFA.
Not on topic, but I beg to differ, I played on Mordred for well over 2 years and it took quite a while for it to ultimately die. Which isn't surprising since the entire game died and ultmately has been reduced to one RVR rule set server.
The real issue with Mordred was Mythic didn't have the resources to properly correct some of the its major issues, was sort of just thrown together and needed some real attention.
That said, there's nothing wrong with an RVR system really, it's just different and perhaps not to some folks liking, but there's different games for all of us.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I'd think it's more required for a working player economy than FFA per se. And not necessarily loot, but the destruction of equipment. Frankly, I like EVE's system where it's random 50-50.