I hope for a freemium model, straight sub models are extinct and no longer work (look at any AAA mmo released in last 3-5 years). I will pay a sub, and I hope they have a f2p version that is greatly restricted like TOR
B2P with a no pay to win cash shop. No MMO needs more and its healthy for the game. People feel free to come back when new content comes out. Sub games tend to die or dwindle when people try other MMOs.
Monthly sub fee. While I don't mind the F2P with cash shop models that everyone seems to be going these days, it gets really old having the freeloaders sit there and talk down on people who actually pay for stuff, which is what makes the servers available to even play. These scum-of-the-earth consider it anathema to pay the developers one red cent, ignorant of the fact that SOMEONE has to pay SOMETHING, otherwise the servers will be taken down.. I mean.. Duh.
You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...
It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games,
Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.
You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...
It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games,
Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.
I'm not arguing. I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away.
I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money. If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine. But that is a big "if".
Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long. That is the main problem.
I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good. If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.
You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...
It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games,
Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.
I'm not arguing. I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away.
I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money. If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine. But that is a big "if".
Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long. That is the main problem.
I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good. If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.
Yes you're right about the "p2p dont necessarily make more money"... although remember that most P2P also have cash shop (the most blatant example being Word of Warcraft)... I dont know, maybe its just me. Maybe I jut had bad luck with B2P and F2P games. Of course you'll prolly disagree with me if I mention my disapointment with GW2 lol... and with F2P I've never seen a stable game with a stable playerbase and a stabe economy - people usually use those as diapers or quick fixes for something they're waiting on.
Sure Path of Exile may be the exception on the F2P theory but only because player interaction is not really required.
P2P... These who want B2P, go and try GW2, try to play this game week with 80lvl... impossible, boring like hell, still 5 months after release.... if u cant pay 10euro/month for game that you enjoy, why you wanna play mmo ? go play mmo without endgame like GW2 is... B2P system isnt good for future updates in mmo....
Originally posted by safire312 P2P... These who want B2P, go and try GW2, try to play this game week with 80lvl... impossible, boring like hell, still 5 months after release.... if u cant pay 10euro/month for game that you enjoy, why you wanna play mmo ? go play mmo without endgame like GW2 is... B2P system isnt good for future updates in mmo....
GW2 is fine, if you love PvP, in my opinion. I'm just more of a PvE type of person, and the game isn't exactly filled with that. Still, I don't feel required to play it almost everyday, like I do with a subscription game. I don't want to feel obligated to play all the time, and I do when I'm paying a monthly fee. If it does end up being a subcription based model, I won't consider buying it until some good reviews are posted.
I love Elder Scrolls, and I know Bethesda isn't developing it, but these games are well known for their game breaking bugs. I also love Star Wars, and I really expected more from Bioware. Look at how awful the game was, with tons of bugs, and really poor performance. If ESO releases with similar problems, people will run back to a game that works.
You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...
It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games,
Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.
I'm not arguing. I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away.
I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money. If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine. But that is a big "if".
Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long. That is the main problem.
I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good. If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.
Yes you're right about the "p2p dont necessarily make more money"... although remember that most P2P also have cash shop (the most blatant example being Word of Warcraft)... I dont know, maybe its just me. Maybe I jut had bad luck with B2P and F2P games. Of course you'll prolly disagree with me if I mention my disapointment with GW2 lol... and with F2P I've never seen a stable game with a stable playerbase and a stabe economy - people usually use those as diapers or quick fixes for something they're waiting on.
Sure Path of Exile may be the exception on the F2P theory but only because player interaction is not really required.
Ya but except for wow and eve, there really isn't that many p2p games with stable player base. So what you said is mute too.
THe reason many p2p turned f2p is "because it don't have stable playerbase".
I think people's expectation are high for TESO. And if TESO manage to pull it off and be successfull for "years to come". Sub base can be a good idea.
But I think people's expecation should be reasonable. I for one is actually having fun in GW2. I think GW2 is doing very well.
I voted B2P. I honestly don't think any MMO developer can keep up with the demanding schedule of creating 15$ worth of content a month that I want out of a sub. At this point with all the other great options out there a P2P game has to really impress me by giving me my money's worth in order to get me in it.
I have a feeling it will be sub based though and it will ultimately travel down the same path as similar games. Please note this has NOTHING to do with the quality of the game and I can tell you right now I am anxious to play it. I just have a feeling if it does go P2P it will end up in the same boat games like SWTOR,Warhammer,AoC,Aion,Tera,ect are in. This is not going to be a game that is built on a solid, but basic level, like Rift. This is a game where there is a massive investment going into it. The trailer they released alone is probably a 30-50 million dollar trailer. If they are investing this much into it before launch it is inevitable that it will eventually end up F2P after losing it's initial base of players. That base of players that leaves is ALWAYS there. No one can tell me it's not until something proves me otherwise. Not to mention the incredibly high expectations for a franchise like ESO.
That said, I think B2P works because you always have the option of jumping back in whenever you want. The sub doesn't matter so much and it is pretty easy to get people to pay some additional money for cosmetic items as well as convienence features.
If you think this game is going to be F2P off the bat though you are out of your mind.
Originally posted by safire312 P2P... These who want B2P, go and try GW2, try to play this game week with 80lvl... impossible, boring like hell, still 5 months after release.... if u cant pay 10euro/month for game that you enjoy, why you wanna play mmo ? go play mmo without endgame like GW2 is... B2P system isnt good for future updates in mmo....
GW2 is fine, if you love PvP, in my opinion. I'm just more of a PvE type of person, and the game isn't exactly filled with that. Still, I don't feel required to play it almost everyday, like I do with a subscription game. I don't want to feel obligated to play all the time, and I do when I'm paying a monthly fee. If it does end up being a subcription based model, I won't consider buying it until some good reviews are posted.
I love Elder Scrolls, and I know Bethesda isn't developing it, but these games are well known for their game breaking bugs. I also love Star Wars, and I really expected more from Bioware. Look at how awful the game was, with tons of bugs, and really poor performance. If ESO releases with similar problems, people will run back to a game that works.
You might be mistaken. GW2 is mainly a PvE game. If you look around on GW2 forums very few people talk about WvW/sPvP, it's mostly about the dungeons, exploration and events. Also, GW2's PvP is made for PvEers. I don't know any PvPer who actually liked it.
While GW2 struck a nice balance with its cash shop, they clearly aren't making the money from it that they expected - hence, the content flowing out from ArenaNet is absolutely horrible; it's almost non-existent.
Subscription model gives you, as the player, the following:
Regular content upgrades, often very big worthwhile ones.
A more dedicated playerbase, people who want to be there and enjoy the game - not kids who got the game for christmas.
The game isn't enginereed to harvest your wallet. (limited dungeons, bag space, character slots etc)
The more money the company makes, the more they can devote to it. A well supported game gets even more developers/artists.
If you look at how Perfect World run their F2P models, then most are probably going to cringe when they see Neverwinter Online's rip-cash-out-of-your-wallet model.
While GW2 struck a nice balance with its cash shop, they clearly aren't making the money from it that they expected - hence, the content flowing out from ArenaNet is absolutely horrible; it's almost non-existent.
Subscription model gives you, as the player, the following:
Regular content upgrades, often very big worthwhile ones.
A more dedicated playerbase, people who want to be there and enjoy the game - not kids who got the game for christmas.
The game isn't enginereed to harvest your wallet. (limited dungeons, bag space, character slots etc)
The more money the company makes, the more they can devote to it. A well supported game gets even more developers/artists.
If you look at how Perfect World run their F2P models, then most are probably going to cringe when they see Neverwinter Online's rip-cash-out-of-your-wallet model.
Quite honest, I never see games have that many update and I played a bunch.
So which P2P games have that many update? I actaully think GW2 have more update than most of them. Only one I havn't really played is Rift which people do say they have many update.
That being said, we really have to wait for the 2013 quarterly report to see if NCSoft is making much money.
I do hope TESO will be a big hit and I'll play it for a long time and I hope it's sub base "because it's that good". But I think you guys have too high of a expectation.
Besides, even the developer say they'll most likely "eventually" make teso f2p. Since judging by previous history, most mmorpg can't survive the p2p model post wow era.
The PVP is going to be stuctured. The raids at end game will be repeatable. There will not be Game Master supported events monthly. Paying a monthly fee to wait for content updates every 6 months at best doesn't work out.
They will not pull away the drones who support World of Warcraft with that type of model to support subscriptions.
If it launches sub, it'll go B2P or F2P in less than a year.
Why say this? It's not even a prediction. History proves it.
ITT: People who want every game F2P so they can continue to destroy MMORPG's. Also what someone else said about sub based games only releasing content once every 6 months....what games have you been playing? The only 2 sub based games I play have new content monthly/bimonthly.
Just sounds like more people want free crap to me.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
The PVP is going to be stuctured. The raids at end game will be repeatable. There will not be Game Master supported events monthly. Paying a monthly fee to wait for content updates every 6 months at best doesn't work out.
They will not pull away the drones who support World of Warcraft with that type of model to support subscriptions.
If it launches sub, it'll go B2P or F2P in less than a year.
Why say this? It's not even a prediction. History proves it.
History proves what? For all you know the game will herald a new era and hit 20 million players in the first 3 months.
Citing some kind of vague comparison like "omg look at SWTOR" is not even remotely proof. That was a garbage game, end of.
The only two games which uphold their subscription model well right now are Rift and WoW. Both provide regular content updates. New zones, raids, items, dungeons and class balances. WoW launched Mists of Pandaria less than 6 months ago and has already had dozens of new items, new raids and is very close to adding a huge mini-expansion with the Throne of Thunder.
Rift consistently adds dungeons, items and raids - so much so the community can sometimes not keep up.
These games are both examples of why a sub model can work well.
Now if you look at some F2P or B2P counterparts.. well, last time I logged into GW2 it looked like next to nothing had changed since last September. No new zones, ONE new dungeon, some kind of sad attempt at a gear progression with the new tier of gear.. but not a lot else. All that in 6 months? Pathetic.
I played wow quite a while ago. They don't have quick update.
But maybe they get intimadated by other games and have been picking it up. Maybe they saw Rift been pumping out update and they do the same.
I do hope TESO is going to be really good. But I don't know why people think it is really good when they know nothing about it.
And I'm willing to bet all my life saving TESO won't hit 20 million in the first 3 month. Maybe if it is f2p, released in china, and have chinese translated version it will. But that's not likely.
And p2p have quite slow update too, that's why I left age of conan. But I think times have changed, game company knows they have to keep pumping out of content to keep people subing.
The only two games which uphold their subscription model well right now are Rift and WoW. Both provide regular content updates. New zones, raids, items, dungeons and class balances. WoW launched Mists of Pandaria less than 6 months ago and has already had dozens of new items, new raids and is very close to adding a huge mini-expansion with the Throne of Thunder.
That's kind of the thing. The "only" two games which upload thier sub model well.
The PVP is going to be stuctured. The raids at end game will be repeatable. There will not be Game Master supported events monthly. Paying a monthly fee to wait for content updates every 6 months at best doesn't work out.
They will not pull away the drones who support World of Warcraft with that type of model to support subscriptions.
If it launches sub, it'll go B2P or F2P in less than a year.
Why say this? It's not even a prediction. History proves it.
History proves what? For all you know the game will herald a new era and hit 20 million players in the first 3 months.
Citing some kind of vague comparison like "omg look at SWTOR" is not even remotely proof. That was a garbage game, end of.
The only two games which uphold their subscription model well right now are Rift and WoW. Both provide regular content updates. New zones, raids, items, dungeons and class balances. WoW launched Mists of Pandaria less than 6 months ago and has already had dozens of new items, new raids and is very close to adding a huge mini-expansion with the Throne of Thunder.
Rift consistently adds dungeons, items and raids - so much so the community can sometimes not keep up.
These games are both examples of why a sub model can work well.
Now if you look at some F2P or B2P counterparts.. well, last time I logged into GW2 it looked like next to nothing had changed since last September. No new zones, ONE new dungeon, some kind of sad attempt at a gear progression with the new tier of gear.. but not a lot else. All that in 6 months? Pathetic.
Wanna bet? TESO isn't doing anything but slapping the Elder Scrolls name on another Secret World / SWTOR sort of deal. Very minor innovation, same ol' 2004 progression system.
RIFT didn't have the budget that TESO had behind it. They're okay with 100k subs, that's profitable for them. TESO will not have the same luck.
Comments
lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow
You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...
Monthly sub fee. While I don't mind the F2P with cash shop models that everyone seems to be going these days, it gets really old having the freeloaders sit there and talk down on people who actually pay for stuff, which is what makes the servers available to even play. These scum-of-the-earth consider it anathema to pay the developers one red cent, ignorant of the fact that SOMEONE has to pay SOMETHING, otherwise the servers will be taken down.. I mean.. Duh.
It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games, not to mention you have to pay for expansions, and even cash shop item.
That being said, just because people say they will pay sub fee, dont' mean they will play that long. I think that's the main problem.
Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.
I'm not arguing. I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away.
I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money. If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine. But that is a big "if".
Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long. That is the main problem.
I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good. If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.
Yes you're right about the "p2p dont necessarily make more money"... although remember that most P2P also have cash shop (the most blatant example being Word of Warcraft)... I dont know, maybe its just me. Maybe I jut had bad luck with B2P and F2P games. Of course you'll prolly disagree with me if I mention my disapointment with GW2 lol... and with F2P I've never seen a stable game with a stable playerbase and a stabe economy - people usually use those as diapers or quick fixes for something they're waiting on.
Sure Path of Exile may be the exception on the F2P theory but only because player interaction is not really required.
GW2 is fine, if you love PvP, in my opinion. I'm just more of a PvE type of person, and the game isn't exactly filled with that. Still, I don't feel required to play it almost everyday, like I do with a subscription game. I don't want to feel obligated to play all the time, and I do when I'm paying a monthly fee. If it does end up being a subcription based model, I won't consider buying it until some good reviews are posted.
I love Elder Scrolls, and I know Bethesda isn't developing it, but these games are well known for their game breaking bugs. I also love Star Wars, and I really expected more from Bioware. Look at how awful the game was, with tons of bugs, and really poor performance. If ESO releases with similar problems, people will run back to a game that works.
Ya but except for wow and eve, there really isn't that many p2p games with stable player base. So what you said is mute too.
THe reason many p2p turned f2p is "because it don't have stable playerbase".
I think people's expectation are high for TESO. And if TESO manage to pull it off and be successfull for "years to come". Sub base can be a good idea.
But I think people's expecation should be reasonable. I for one is actually having fun in GW2. I think GW2 is doing very well.
I voted B2P. I honestly don't think any MMO developer can keep up with the demanding schedule of creating 15$ worth of content a month that I want out of a sub. At this point with all the other great options out there a P2P game has to really impress me by giving me my money's worth in order to get me in it.
I have a feeling it will be sub based though and it will ultimately travel down the same path as similar games. Please note this has NOTHING to do with the quality of the game and I can tell you right now I am anxious to play it. I just have a feeling if it does go P2P it will end up in the same boat games like SWTOR,Warhammer,AoC,Aion,Tera,ect are in. This is not going to be a game that is built on a solid, but basic level, like Rift. This is a game where there is a massive investment going into it. The trailer they released alone is probably a 30-50 million dollar trailer. If they are investing this much into it before launch it is inevitable that it will eventually end up F2P after losing it's initial base of players. That base of players that leaves is ALWAYS there. No one can tell me it's not until something proves me otherwise. Not to mention the incredibly high expectations for a franchise like ESO.
That said, I think B2P works because you always have the option of jumping back in whenever you want. The sub doesn't matter so much and it is pretty easy to get people to pay some additional money for cosmetic items as well as convienence features.
If you think this game is going to be F2P off the bat though you are out of your mind.
You might be mistaken. GW2 is mainly a PvE game. If you look around on GW2 forums very few people talk about WvW/sPvP, it's mostly about the dungeons, exploration and events. Also, GW2's PvP is made for PvEers. I don't know any PvPer who actually liked it.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
Personally hoping for a subscription model.
While GW2 struck a nice balance with its cash shop, they clearly aren't making the money from it that they expected - hence, the content flowing out from ArenaNet is absolutely horrible; it's almost non-existent.
Subscription model gives you, as the player, the following:
Quite honest, I never see games have that many update and I played a bunch.
So which P2P games have that many update? I actaully think GW2 have more update than most of them. Only one I havn't really played is Rift which people do say they have many update.
That being said, we really have to wait for the 2013 quarterly report to see if NCSoft is making much money.
I do hope TESO will be a big hit and I'll play it for a long time and I hope it's sub base "because it's that good". But I think you guys have too high of a expectation.
Besides, even the developer say they'll most likely "eventually" make teso f2p. Since judging by previous history, most mmorpg can't survive the p2p model post wow era.
Very good then. So you support f2p model? lol
There is no other way than Pay2Play for MMO of ESO size.
Free2Play ad Buy2Play kids can cry some more, I am actually having quite good fun reading this topic.
I bet you dont' even know what TESO budget is atm. So how do you know it is of that grand scale.
I understand people have high expectation. But be reasonable.
I just remember all the fanboys on other game forums get hyped up and start complaining a few month after the game is released.
The PVP is going to be stuctured. The raids at end game will be repeatable. There will not be Game Master supported events monthly. Paying a monthly fee to wait for content updates every 6 months at best doesn't work out.
They will not pull away the drones who support World of Warcraft with that type of model to support subscriptions.
If it launches sub, it'll go B2P or F2P in less than a year.
Why say this? It's not even a prediction. History proves it.
a yo ho ho
ITT: People who want every game F2P so they can continue to destroy MMORPG's. Also what someone else said about sub based games only releasing content once every 6 months....what games have you been playing? The only 2 sub based games I play have new content monthly/bimonthly.
Just sounds like more people want free crap to me.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
History proves what? For all you know the game will herald a new era and hit 20 million players in the first 3 months.
Citing some kind of vague comparison like "omg look at SWTOR" is not even remotely proof. That was a garbage game, end of.
The only two games which uphold their subscription model well right now are Rift and WoW. Both provide regular content updates. New zones, raids, items, dungeons and class balances. WoW launched Mists of Pandaria less than 6 months ago and has already had dozens of new items, new raids and is very close to adding a huge mini-expansion with the Throne of Thunder.
Rift consistently adds dungeons, items and raids - so much so the community can sometimes not keep up.
These games are both examples of why a sub model can work well.
Now if you look at some F2P or B2P counterparts.. well, last time I logged into GW2 it looked like next to nothing had changed since last September. No new zones, ONE new dungeon, some kind of sad attempt at a gear progression with the new tier of gear.. but not a lot else. All that in 6 months? Pathetic.
I played wow quite a while ago. They don't have quick update.
But maybe they get intimadated by other games and have been picking it up. Maybe they saw Rift been pumping out update and they do the same.
I do hope TESO is going to be really good. But I don't know why people think it is really good when they know nothing about it.
And I'm willing to bet all my life saving TESO won't hit 20 million in the first 3 month. Maybe if it is f2p, released in china, and have chinese translated version it will. But that's not likely.
And p2p have quite slow update too, that's why I left age of conan. But I think times have changed, game company knows they have to keep pumping out of content to keep people subing.
That's kind of the thing. The "only" two games which upload thier sub model well.
How do you know Teso is going to do the same?
Wanna bet? TESO isn't doing anything but slapping the Elder Scrolls name on another Secret World / SWTOR sort of deal. Very minor innovation, same ol' 2004 progression system.
RIFT didn't have the budget that TESO had behind it. They're okay with 100k subs, that's profitable for them. TESO will not have the same luck.
a yo ho ho