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Originally posted by azarhal Originally posted by JimmyYO Hey look guys, I could care less if another actionRPG MMO tries to grace us with it's presence but don't slap it with a D&D label then insult the fans even more by giving it the Neverwinter name while making the game nothing at all like D&D(any edition). For the record, DDO made a plethora of empty promises about adding many classes after launch as well. I think the sadest part is that Neverwinter Online is shaping up to be even less true to D&D then DDO, which is a feat in itself. How many fail MMO's that sandbag their own audience does it take before these devs learn. The whole reason the PC Neverwinter series was so popular was because of how close it was to D&D. MMO's obviously have more limitations but that's not a free ticket to take a dump on the fans. RIP Neverwinter series. Oh well maybe Pathfinder has the smarts to pull it off.
DDO is supposed to be 3.5e and took lots of detour since it was released.
NWO use 4e. Cryptic went as far as to implement the classes based on the Player Handbook proposed build.
Yes I realize they're different editions and ironicly both games ignored them. What else do both those games have in common? They're both awful, in my "humble" opinion.
Target an audience then proceed to take a dump on said audience and your game will fail, not rocket science.
Originally posted by Warley Originally posted by JimmyYO Yes but even now you are shying away from saying anything you disliked about the game even though you just playtested it. I'd be interested in hearing from you the 3 biggest pros AND cons you noticed after playing the game. I'm not asking for a conclusive review just both sides of the coin.
He probably won't answer you or will be very brief and give a canned response since MMORPG.com will be relying on ad revenue when the game gets to that point. It's just the nature of the business world and the current way our society works.
I doubt it is a case of that. Remember he did a PREVIEW not a REVIEW these two things are looked upon in a different manner. Previews are just that they preview it for others to see and judge for themsevles seen as the build is so early almost everything can change. This is why Preview rarely have any negatives put on them. I am sure once release is here then a full review will be done with the pro's and con's.
If I don't give a crap about playing any hybrid classes and enjoy running dungeons DPSing or Healing for 30 minutes to get loot...is it ok if I like the game?
Not everyone is going to like / demand the same features. The inclusion / omission doesn't mean the game is terrible to anyone other than the person compaining. In this case JimmyYO.
Originally posted by Warley
Bill, gamers are much,more savvy nowadays. Everyone with MMO experience over the years knew that Star Wars TOR would be the same ol' watered down WoW clone. And, yet, it gets great reviews by MMORPG and all the other online magazines that depend heavily on ad revenue. We know how the world works: it's a business oriented world. Please don't pretend it isn't.
I would have given SWToR a good review with some criticisms here and there,. I wouldn't assume that just because it gets a good review that the reviewer doesn't like it.
I would even go as far as to say that if people actually paid attention to what the devs said, taking into account subjective terms, that they actually fulfilled their claims.
Except for the pvp of course.
On that mod thing about deliting everything negative toward GW2 i need to add something you might missed and I felt thet on my MMORPG acc.
Thay started not only deliting they were baning ppl that made their negative point of view on GW in BETA and continue trough when game went live and now look at the posts ppl complaining about. 99% of that i posted about GW2.
@ Bill Murphy
I kind of understand thet there is someone on higher place than you in MMORPG as a company and you are doing yur best.
But seriously, everyone can get a good review at BETA if the money is in place on MMORPG, then you leave ppl spaming all kind of posts saying all the negative aspects of the game that were praised in reviews, that is not in some games it started to be a common thing on this web site.
So common that you can copy/past last 4-5 MMORPG that went from BETA to live.
Originally posted by Woopin Originally posted by Warley Originally posted by JimmyYO Yes but even now you are shying away from saying anything you disliked about the game even though you just playtested it. I'd be interested in hearing from you the 3 biggest pros AND cons you noticed after playing the game. I'm not asking for a conclusive review just both sides of the coin.
PROS: Combat, Character Creation, God that lovely, deep UI.
CONS: Limited classes, not sure I like the "pets/companions" being combat allies, stability (it crashed and voip was not stable).
All of those Suzie and I mentioned in different articles today as well.
Worries for the future? What is there to do at the cap? How deep and well-used will the Foundry be? How long will we wait for new classes, and races? What will monetization be?
That said, it's still a fun game. Plainly, and simply. And it won't stop being fun even if my cons aren't addressed. It'll be flawed, but still fun.
One thing I wish I didn't have to keep repeating on these forums and in articles? The community staff and the editorial staff, BOTH have nothing to do with advertising at all. The owners of the site handle all of that. We make a concerted effort to keep it separate so we can be honest with our takes on games. Everyone forgets the time Earthrise came out and we had a review blasting its poor craftsmanship, right alongside full-page ads. Our owners defended us and our write to voice our opinions when the marketing team from Earthrise went to them complaining.
Advertising and the people buying ads are the least of my worries. They're the owners' headache, not mine. I'm far more concerned with giving you open honest feedback on games.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
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Originally posted by koljane @Jimmy On that mod thing about deliting everything negative toward GW2 i need to add something you might missed and I felt thet on my MMORPG acc. Thay started not only deliting they were baning ppl that made their negative point of view on GW in BETA and continue trough when game went live and now look at the posts ppl complaining about. 99% of that i posted about GW2.
On the community stuff, I actually don't have any power there. There are three heads to this site. Owners (ads, backend, design), Editorial (the written and video content you see), Community (the forums and social networks). I can't speak for the Owners or Mike B and his community staff. But I'll gladly take heat for editorial content and try my best to keep improving.
Originally posted by BillMurphy Originally posted by steelheartx There was also an article recently where they were saying they would like to add other FR locations in like Waterdeep in the future. Pretty excited to check it out myself.
Yeah, given that you can be from Amn, etc, I'd hope so.
Look folks: no one here is calling this game the best game EVAR, but those of us here who've played it enjoyed it so far. And we're trying to give you as much info about it as possible, mixed with opinions of both the positive and negative.
Originally posted by JimmyYO I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit] However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general. For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.
How did you get to play a FINISHED 100% released, Non-Alpha, Non-Beta product already?
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
Originally posted by Talonsin Have you played it or is your opinion only based on only having 5 classes?
Originally posted by Talonsin Have you played it or is your opinion only based on only having 5 classes?
Originally posted by Cacaphony Forming such a one-sided opinion about the game based on limited information seems, well, like a knee-jerk reaction intended to do only one thing; spread hate and misinformation. As a person who openly dislikes Cryptic games, I find this one interesting. At least more so than their previous products. Im actually interested so far, and await more information.
Originally posted by Cacaphony
I guess the trolls like the OP are starting earlier and earlier. We don't have enough information to even form a cogent theory at this point but the hater crowd that dislikes anything that looks different and rather then playing games they spend all their time on forums posting nonsense about things they couldn't possibly know anything about yet will continue to post their nonsense. It's how the game is played on this website (and others).
There's only one thing to say to these types of people.
"Ain't Nobody Got Time Fo Dat!"
Originally posted by Ilaya Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Daemonweaver It has already been stated and repeated yesterday during the live stream that the game will open with 5 classes but more are on the way in the near future.
Of course they will add more classes in the future, they have to have something good to sell you in the cash shop don't you know? Think they won't, look at the ships they sold in STO.
And for a F2P Game that should be okay, or?
Nothing, other than its to be expected.
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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Jimmyo I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you. I sat down here yesturday and watched the whole stream on Neverwinter and was thoroughly impressed. From what I see in your previous post it seems like the problem you have with the game is that it doesn't resemble D&D. I'm going to be honest I played D&D once and thought it was stupid( the paper game and the mmo). Neverwinter in on a different level, I believe that the audience will be intrigued by the action combat and the story all together. I just didn't see you bring up any valid points of how the game will be terrible. We all have our opinions and thats ok, I just believe that you should have more evidence to support your claim. To me it seems like a bratty rant because you can't have your way.
D&D fet. new breed of MMORPG setings simply putted.
I got my beta key and I realy loved what I saw while Bill had all the fun. It has that D&D touch just enough to remind me on good old days and to take the dust from my NWN Boxes and Icewind Dale and ofc Baldure`s Gate I and II.
Hey, guess what?
TESO will be the same and so will the next game after that and so on.
Until they all change their WoW-inspired, money-grabbing attempts at these failures they like to call games (let alone MMORPGs), they will all be seen for how terrible they are once their honeymoon periods are over.
Love what you do, do it without ulterior motives, and money and fame will follow. Do it for the wrong reasons and you lose.
D&D has bloated over the years with way to many classes. But if it worries you there is no way Cryptic/PWI is going to pass up the oppertunity to sell addational classes. What we see is just the begining.
The big thing that worries me is going to be the gambling boxes you open with cash shop keys. It's not the boxes themselves that I don't like its the way they tend to pull all the best new assests into them because they are just so much more profitiable than selling them outright. I mean nobody says a word at buying keys trying to get something with a 1 in thousand chance but what would happen if they tried to sell those same times for $1000 or even one tenth that?
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."^MMORPG.com
The OP hasnt played the game yet, is making assumptions based off limited to no information and basically wasted the spaces bandwidth with this thread but lets look at the facts:
7 or 8 races to start
4th edition rule set (yes it does follow D&D 4th Ed.)
made by cryptic (STO, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Champions online)
in conjunction with PWI (Raiderz, Torchlight II, STO, jade Dynasty, War of the Immortals and so on....)
Will have a cash store
is free to play
has a foundry (custom player created stories and content)
Has hourly, and half hourly events like STO
and alot more.
Simply put there is alot of misinformation out about Neverwinter. alot of people make attempts to slam any game that isnt World of Warcraft. Listen up folks.. WoW is nearly 10 years old. its out of date no matter how much monty python content they come up with. latest news is they lost another 400k accounts. down to somewhere around 9 million accounts if you believe blizzard.
A successful game doesnt lose that many accounts at a time. its on the decline. follow the business model... you have your growth where your customers increase and profits increase. then you have the level off.. it grows stagnant.. then the decline.. you start losing customers.. thats business. with so many better games coming out its hard for a game built on an ancient engine to survive.. and the pandas didnt help blizz this time.... yeah they are part of the lore.. but trying to appease China isnt working out as they hoped.
Just think in a few years Citadel of Sorcery will be out with an open world system on a 900 million Kilometer planet(roughly the size of earth) with static questing not linear and no catalog quests... instanced games are the norm right now.. just be patient itll pass like the dinosaurs did. Technology has hit a peak.. now the games have to catch up and the corporate greed mongers will find they are outclassed by the private developers( RSI, MMOMagic, and so on) and we will see an evolution in gaming.
If you played Startrek online youll understand the instancing, character customization, and the UI change settings. its the same. pretty convienient actually since they ar easy to use. and if you didnt know the foundry creators will be able to customize the NPCs using the same character cutomization UI.
So be patient its just a matter of time, however seeing as this game goes into beta for the first time this weekend people need to hold thier reservations until they play a game. this jumping the gun crap is childish.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Originally posted by Ivylena Originally posted by JimmyYO I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit] However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general. For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.
No, sorry, this close to launch, at the paid for open beta stage, you do not get to pull that card for *any* game...
The game is fully judgeable in it's current state.
I am pretty ambivalent towards this title, past some misgivings about how it has been marketed, and I offer no personal opinion here but at this point it is what it is.
Originally posted by GrayKodiak I saw the stream, this isn't my cup of joe as it was. But as a long time D&D computer game fan, and someone who is passably familiar with the newer rule sets, this doesn't seem that far off of its D&D roots. Yea it needs more classes but you and I both know no game is ever going to include the exhaustive list of classes available in all of the guide books at launch. Not gonna happen. It takes place in one city which is odd, but so do the start of many campaigns. Maybe that will grow with time. I think this is a game of potential, the foundry has potential the mechanics are there for more classes. The 200 dollar pre buy seems to me a bit crazy...but whatever people want to throw money away on I guess. There are plenty of worst games that had D&D slapped on them.
and 'plenty'? I'd go as far as to say ALL, except for that Tekken-like one for Sega CD years ago, that was an insane quality fighting, graphics, characters from the lore fun-fest...no dungeon crawling, just fighting and skills based on the PnP... but it was a blast.
From what I saw, I'm going to give it a go, but they did hella scare me with that $200 Founder grab, the LiveStream was just the kind of PR they needed to overcome that for me.
I will play the game when it comes out and hope for the best.
If I don't like it I will quit and continue to wait for the next mmo to grab my gaming itch.
What else can we do?
Originally posted by JimmyYO Originally posted by azarhal Originally posted by JimmyYO Hey look guys, I could care less if another actionRPG MMO tries to grace us with it's presence but don't slap it with a D&D label then insult the fans even more by giving it the Neverwinter name while making the game nothing at all like D&D(any edition). For the record, DDO made a plethora of empty promises about adding many classes after launch as well. I think the sadest part is that Neverwinter Online is shaping up to be even less true to D&D then DDO, which is a feat in itself. How many fail MMO's that sandbag their own audience does it take before these devs learn. The whole reason the PC Neverwinter series was so popular was because of how close it was to D&D. MMO's obviously have more limitations but that's not a free ticket to take a dump on the fans. RIP Neverwinter series. Oh well maybe Pathfinder has the smarts to pull it off.
NWO isn't ignoreing 4e. The whole ruleset was tailored to become an action MMO.
It's amazing how you're already judging each and every single one of the game's features already but how many of them have you actually played?
Originally posted by SBFord Neverwinter will launch with five classes as far as we know but if you look at any credible D&D site, there are a ton of other classes that can and undoubtedly will be added.
Im defenitly in agreement here with both you and Bill. I know they said one oftheir priorities is to add additional classes after launch, hopefully this still remains true.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by Warley Originally posted by BillMurphy @Jimmy: I wasn't around when FFXIV launched, but one of the first things I did when I took over was get FFXIV reviewed. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/reviews/load/147/The-Original-Release-Reviewed.html We're not perfect, but I think over the past nearly two years since I began as ME, our reviews and reviewers have been getting better and better. YMMV. But we ARE making a concerted effort always to be honest, fair, and balanced in our reviews, previews, editorials, everything.
BS. MMo players are no more savvy than any one else. If anything, the only thing you guys excel at are whining over features you dont like.