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  • tleartlear Toronto, ONPosts: 142Member

    1. Stick to your guns NO PVE, but I think you got this covered

    2. Weapon, Armor decay with use and can only be crafted, day 1 fist/club fights go go go! Magic requires some crafted expendable/damageable stuff as well

    3. Real in depth crafting system, there should be dozen of way to make a basic sword

    4. No instances of any kind ever

    5. Hard AOE CC with immunity timers to fight the zerg

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyelthis

    Basically, my list mirrors many others' lists here-

    1. Faction-lock to accounts or servers.

    2. Something to appease PvE players ( I hope there is at least SOME sort of PvE system in place ala dungeons/PvP daily quests, ect)

    3. No class mirrors. (By this I mean no straight clones of eachother, although having classes that fill the same sub-role across the factions is great with me. WAR seemed to do this well enough I thought.)

    4. PvP progression through tiered gear rewards or PvP ranks.

    5. Tiered content/RvR zones. Probably the BEST part of WAR for me was that I could jump in at level 1, go out to the RvR lakes and fight, level, get gear, all while fighting other players within my level bracket. The problem with this of course is keeping the different tiers active which is much easier with 3 factions I would imagine.

     

    Mark, I'm glad you posted here. It's a rare thing to see devs come here on a fan forum and get real with the fans. I loved DAoC and WAR (aside from it's various issues, I still think it had some of the best combat of any MMO I've played) and am looking forward to what you guys reveal in the future on CU. Best of luck to you guys.

    (Instanced) Dungeons? Daily quests? Gear grind? You are in the wrong forum mate :)

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • KyelthisKyelthis Phoenix, AZPosts: 284Member
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Kyelthis

    Basically, my list mirrors many others' lists here-

    1. Faction-lock to accounts or servers.

    2. Something to appease PvE players ( I hope there is at least SOME sort of PvE system in place ala dungeons/PvP daily quests, ect)

    3. No class mirrors. (By this I mean no straight clones of eachother, although having classes that fill the same sub-role across the factions is great with me. WAR seemed to do this well enough I thought.)

    4. PvP progression through tiered gear rewards or PvP ranks.

    5. Tiered content/RvR zones. Probably the BEST part of WAR for me was that I could jump in at level 1, go out to the RvR lakes and fight, level, get gear, all while fighting other players within my level bracket. The problem with this of course is keeping the different tiers active which is much easier with 3 factions I would imagine.

     

    Mark, I'm glad you posted here. It's a rare thing to see devs come here on a fan forum and get real with the fans. I loved DAoC and WAR (aside from it's various issues, I still think it had some of the best combat of any MMO I've played) and am looking forward to what you guys reveal in the future on CU. Best of luck to you guys.

    (Instanced) Dungeons? Daily quests? Gear grind? You are in the wrong forum mate :)

    How so exactly? DAoC had dungeons, as did WAR. As for the PvP/RvR quests, there needs to be some sort of reward mechanic either through repeatable RvR quests, or through RvR special events. I never said anything about a gear grind, so way to put words in my mouth. 

    The OP made this thread for people to list things they'd like to see, and so I did.

    EDIT: I say "there needs to be rewards for PvP" because that's the majority of the MMO community now-a-days. I want the game to be healthy and the best way to have a healthy game is to sometimes appease to crowds who may be comfortable with certain reward mechanics. If someone wants to hop in for a short time and PvP, there should be ways to reward those players, the more "casual" ones I mean.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Daoc didn't have instanced dungeons.
  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon

    I'll weigh in considering this is a game and concept I am very much looking forward to having played DAoC from launch and migrated to FFA PvP servers when availalbe.

     

    1) TTK (Time to kill) we need to step away from this "BOOM HEAD SHOT" FPS style level of play... Players should all have a fighting chance and a kill should be a challenge and well rewarded.

     

    2) For the limited PvE should be a darkness falls type experience however instead of faction control, all factions should have access and have the opportunity to enter and exit at any given time.

     

    3) Some form of universal skill system... I am taking a page out of Age of Wushu here... The flying skill system is something that everyone has access to (with some effort) and creates a level playfield and means of pursuit or escape... If all players have access to this it can be easily controlled and balanced.

     

    4) Shadowbane style leveling... Shadowbane (iirc) had a great leveling system where levels were important but they were not the be all end all... At some point there were diminishing returns and while levels were endless a person who was lvl 50 was competative with a player who was in the 60's... DAoC was such a huge difference between a lvl 49 player and a lvl 50 at least back int he "classic"" days. Slow levels with addition of some offline progression a la Eve... this can give those (hardcore and casual) players who can't dedicate 24/7 (family, school, work) a fighting chance to stay competative.

     

    5) NO BATTLE GROUNDS!!!!!!!!!! Open World ONLY... DAoC was one of those few games where you actually identified and had pride in your faction (realm) It would be great if they can recapture that feeling. It was not so much about guilds or individual goals as much as it was about realm and everyone guild or solo united under the same banner. All PvP should be open world with NO BATTLEGROUNDS or homogonized PvP... If someone wants to take a stroll out there by themselves and try to pick others off (or be picked off) one by one they should be able to do so... This was great about playing DAoC... Fond memories of being a solo ranger picking people off as they were zerging a gate.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • KyelthisKyelthis Phoenix, AZPosts: 284Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Daoc didn't have instanced dungeons.

    Right, but I never said it did in my post. 

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wighty

     

    5) NO BATTLE GROUNDS!!!!!!!!!! Open World ONLY... DAoC was one of those few games where you actually identified and had pride in your faction (realm) It would be great if they can recapture that feeling. It was not so much about guilds or individual goals as much as it was about realm and everyone guild or solo united under the same banner. All PvP should be open world with NO BATTLEGROUNDS or homogonized PvP... If someone wants to take a stroll out there by themselves and try to pick others off (or be picked off) one by one they should be able to do so... This was great about playing DAoC... Fond memories of being a solo ranger picking people off as they were zerging a gate.

    Do you mean WoW-style BGs or DAoC-style BGs? DAoC BGs were awesome! They still are (for example Thidranki on Uthgard when it is well populated).

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member

    i am curious about one thing i mentioned in my OP, and if Mr. Jacobs sees this maybe he could touch upon its veracity in a new MMO.

    Collision detection, does having this included in your game make it impossible to implement extreme large scale warfare ? I see this as an extrememly important strategic element to an RvR centric game, but i have no idea how hard it is to implement and still keep the game largescale and slideshow free.

    Personally, i think without it, largescale warfare is thrown out the window, not able to utilize choke points, not able to provide defense to ranged combat, not able to have last stand defenses. I can make a list at how the lack of collision detection strengthens a tactical and strategic RvR game, but i cannot understand how this would add to the complexity to the nuts and bolts of making this work.

    Thanks to anyone who might reply to this, and sorry its kind of off topic from my OP.

    Lolipops !

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Daoc didn't have instanced dungeons.

    Yes, it did.

    Task dungeons were instanced.

     

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • DarrgenDarrgen alcoa, TNPosts: 65Member

    I'm actually writing a blog similar to this about ideas that I would like to see in the game but here are a few.

     

    1.  We all love taking keeps, and we also love houses and the customization of them. So why not add more flavor to Keeps to also make them more customizable? Add an RTS style gameplay feel to all keeps taken and claimed by guilds. For instance, Building a wood gathering structure that allows npcs to gather wood from nearby trees. Left vulnerable could severely weaken a Keep, but if enough wood is gathered you could build defenses to make it much more difficult for the opposing realms.  I'm sure there's a ton of ideas out there that could be tossed around to make this RTS style keep system so much more fun and engaging for guilds to play around with. After all, who doesn't love customization. This system would also add a lot of personal feel for guilds that own them, a moral obligation to defend the keep regardless of what they may be doing elsewhere.

    2. For me it's core mechanics that made DaoC so great, Group out of combat speed, ranged AoE Mesmeration(NoT ALL Cc should be ranged AoE but mesmeration should be) Just provide ways to break it such as the old purge and classes that can dispell it.  The reason for this, is you want a healthy community of players of all group sizes so tools must be in place to allow this to happen. I'll use DaoC as an example, in DaoC you had 6 different speeds that groups would use, speed 1, speed2, speed3,speed4,speed5, and speed6. Most organised groups used either speed 5 or speed 6. Larger groups usually ran around at speed4(also the most common speed type in the game) and Huge Zergs usually didn't run on speed simply because every group couldn't provide speed classes. I would change this slightly by adding a speed(around the speed of speed3 and 4) that a class could provide that was area wide rather than just group. This would cause this to be the most common speed for larger groups since it's easier. Also AoE mesmeration(if you're not familiar with how it worked it was a ranged Crowd control that put up to 16 people asleep that broke on ANY damage). Why this was so important was because of the breaking on damage part. Large Zergs aren't organised enough to really utilize this tool as much simply because of things like AoE damage, and lack of coordination. Their strength is generally in numbers. Where as smaller groups with more coordination can use this CC much more effectively. These are tools that are needed to allow smaller numbers to thrive in a game where there is no player cap. You want all group sizes to play a roll.

     

    Last 3 will be continued later(out of break time at work!)

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by tlear

    1. Stick to your guns NO PVE, but I think you got this covered

    2. Weapon, Armor decay with use and can only be crafted, day 1 fist/club fights go go go! Magic requires some crafted expendable/damageable stuff as well

    3. Real in depth crafting system, there should be dozen of way to make a basic sword

    4. No instances of any kind ever

    5. Hard AOE CC with immunity timers to fight the zerg

    I hate to tell you, but if there is no PvE, this game will be alienating most former DAoC players from the start.

    The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players who dabbled in rvr, not the other way around.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Wighty

     

    5) NO BATTLE GROUNDS!!!!!!!!!! Open World ONLY... DAoC was one of those few games where you actually identified and had pride in your faction (realm) It would be great if they can recapture that feeling. It was not so much about guilds or individual goals as much as it was about realm and everyone guild or solo united under the same banner. All PvP should be open world with NO BATTLEGROUNDS or homogonized PvP... If someone wants to take a stroll out there by themselves and try to pick others off (or be picked off) one by one they should be able to do so... This was great about playing DAoC... Fond memories of being a solo ranger picking people off as they were zerging a gate.

    Do you mean WoW-style BGs or DAoC-style BGs? DAoC BGs were awesome! They still are (for example Thidranki on Uthgard when it is well populated).

    While I feel DAoC did manage to accomplish great battleground, mainly due to 3 factrions and especially for the lower levels (who would get crushed at the openworld RvR vs 50's) I am just not a fan of BG's in general... too much of a "fairsies" homogonized environment...

    People get far to comfortable in the controlled PvP environments to the point that they avoid or refrain from open world PvP which detracts from the overall experience.

    If you want BG's play a MOBA...

    CU should avoid them at all cost or limit them to early progression as a means to reach whatever their end game goals are considering the limited PvE and current onformation on the game thus far.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • tleartlear Toronto, ONPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by tlear

    1. Stick to your guns NO PVE, but I think you got this covered

    2. Weapon, Armor decay with use and can only be crafted, day 1 fist/club fights go go go! Magic requires some crafted expendable/damageable stuff as well

    3. Real in depth crafting system, there should be dozen of way to make a basic sword

    4. No instances of any kind ever

    5. Hard AOE CC with immunity timers to fight the zerg

    I hate to tell you, but if there is no PvE, this game will be alienating most former DAoC players from the start.

    The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players who dabbled in rvr, not the other way around.

    I am aware of that, thus this is a niche game. I think maybe 1in 4-5 people in DAOC were primarily RvR players rest went fighting maybe once a week if that. DAOC sub base was about 250k MJ is aiming at 50k subs for this. Problem is that barebones DAOC style pve in the current market is a death sentence for a game and you would still spend atleast a year building it

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Daoc didn't have instanced dungeons.

    Yes, it did.

    Task dungeons were instanced.

     

    they came with catacombs though didnt they

     

    to me daoc is pre TOA, pre Cata.  after them its somethign else.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    Do you mean WoW-style BGs or DAoC-style BGs? DAoC BGs were awesome! They still are (for example Thidranki on Uthgard when it is well populated).

    I loved DAOC style battlegrounds. Today's mmo battlegrounds are a joke compared to the battlegrounds we had in DAOC.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • ninjapyninjapy berkeley springs, WVPosts: 39Member Uncommon

    1. /face /Stick , I cant stand chasing a moron hopping around like a kangaroo waiting for his number 1 key to flash ready.

    2. Greater CC immunity timer, or better yet no CC at all. I can go shower come back and still be Mezzed? Whatever.

    3. Some way of rewarding faction pride. That was lost when DAOC servers started merging.

    4. Massive siege warfare. Please no steam run gnome/goblin shit either. No carrying a whole Catapult in your backpack either. make us pull it across the battlefield with horse or mules or something like that.

    5. Detailed graphics user interface. Let us remove as much or put in as much detail we want or don't want. Help some lower end PC's stay competative.

     

  • gregoryvggregoryvg Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 35Member

    1. I want a class based system; each class having a role with some hybrids in the middle.

    2. A progression system that bases your new fighting abilities on something other than global cooldowns; except in the rare cases where those do make sense (it should be the exception).  Think more DAoC styles using endurance and having prerequisites vs. Warhammer Online having cooldowns.

    3. Melee interupts casting.

    4. I do not want collision detection if it makes the game laggy during combat.

    5. A meaningful world where realm pride is sacremont and a reason to want to come back and "live" in this new world.  Don't make it a game, but a world.  Which is going to be hard to do without a strong PvE component; so I am curious how Mark and team are going to pull this off.

     

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by tlear

    1. Stick to your guns NO PVE, but I think you got this covered

    2. Weapon, Armor decay with use and can only be crafted, day 1 fist/club fights go go go! Magic requires some crafted expendable/damageable stuff as well

    3. Real in depth crafting system, there should be dozen of way to make a basic sword

    4. No instances of any kind ever

    5. Hard AOE CC with immunity timers to fight the zerg

    I hate to tell you, but if there is no PvE, this game will be alienating most former DAoC players from the start.

    The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players who dabbled in rvr, not the other way around.

    [citation needed]

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ninjapy

    1. /face /Stick , I cant stand chasing a moron hopping around like a kangaroo waiting for his number 1 key to flash ready.

    2. Greater CC immunity timer, or better yet no CC at all. I can go shower come back and still be Mezzed? Whatever.

    3. Some way of rewarding faction pride. That was lost when DAOC servers started merging.

    4. Massive siege warfare. Please no steam run gnome/goblin shit either. No carrying a whole Catapult in your backpack either. make us pull it across the battlefield with horse or mules or something like that.

    5. Detailed graphics user interface. Let us remove as much or put in as much detail we want or don't want. Help some lower end PC's stay competative.

     

    Why would you want /stick? clicker?

     

    No CC at all? sounds boring.

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    One more thing I'd like in an mmo, though it may not be possible with Camelot Unchained. I would really like vendors at your house to sell things instead of an auction house. Or perhaps having shops you could rent in the cities to use as your own personal shop, would give people a reason to visit the cities as well.

    With Auction houses you don't get to meet your crafter and interact with people. I understand how auction houses make things easier, but I would much rather it be like Dark Age of Camelot & Ultima Online system. I loved going from house to house shopping and taking my time, a lot of times running into crafters as they are at their homes setting things up and just hanging about.

    Also, it's really is disappointing when you have these huge, beautiful, cities, with no reason to even visit them except to go train or buy some sort of materials. Having a reason to visit cities would be great.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member

    1.  Optional pvp server. :D

     

    2. Aside from point 1, REALM PRIDE/COMMUNITY.

     

    3. Solo, group, raid objectives.

     

    4. Darkness Falls type dungeon.

     

    5. Deep, complex game world & lore.

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVPosts: 268Member Uncommon

    1. A reason to want to fight for my faction. Relics for bonuses or rr's/skill trees based on performance.

     

    2. No path of least resistance to gaining  rewards. No 2 groups playing ring around the rosie keep trading on empty keeps because its the fastest way to gain said rewards. Make people fight and give them uber incentive to do so.

     

    3.Compared to DAOC please limit CC. Loss of character control from full health to dead is pure bad design. People don't pay to not be able to play. I'm not against crowd control completely but have it limited duration or immunity afterwards. None of this 2 groups rolling at full skald speed and first group to press insta aoe mez button wins the fight while all 8 men of the losing group make a sandwich because they can't play anyway.  Shadowbane had the best CC system I have seen. If you ate a stun for 5 seconds you were immune for 10 seconds afterward. Then you could be stunned again for full 5 seconds. Do the same thing with roots/stuns/mez's.

     

    4. Make the world immense and varied. Limit fast travel this way there can be smaller skirmishes and larger wars going on at the same time. Add in waterways and water/boat warfare. A massive world would allow for much more building of housing and sandbox features Mark mentioned in the real world (not an instance.

     

    5. Darkness Falls, Darkness Falls, Darkness Falls. Mark said he would limit pve and anything that wasn't directly tied to PVP/RVR. Well Darkness Falls was PVE but it was controlled by RVR and lots of RVR went on inside of it. If you are against doing standard world PVE what about a huge Darkness falls style dungeon with tokens and rewards and experience. Make it RVR controlled again and bam instantly tied to RVR like the design vision yet also adds a layer of depth to a mostly RVR game. Not to mention Darkness Falls was one of the coolest additions to any game I've ever played.

  • YukmarcYukmarc Fresno, CAPosts: 104Member Uncommon

    -I would like the /stick command. Why? I'm an Armsman and it made life easier.

    -I would also like slower paced combat like DAOC was... maybe I'm getting old, but all this fast, hopping around garbage.. who can keep up?

    That is all...

     

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 468Member Uncommon

    Folks,

        Thanks all, keep them coming.  In the mean time, here's my top five (these are *NOT* necessarily what you'll see in CU), I'm just thinking out loud. Don't see this as "MARK PROMISED US THIS!!!", pretty please?

    1) Combat that makes me feel like I'm really there. It's highly reactive, blood flows (doesn't gush out like a geyser) and everything lines up properly (sounds, effects, etc.) and smoothly.

    2) Out of the box thinking with spells/abilities. I want to be able to throw someone off a damn cliff and laugh as they fall through the air to be dashed upon the rocks below. I want to be on a ledge fighting someone and hold off a larger group until fall to my death as people laugh at me. I want abilities that are friggin earned because my realm is badass and not just because we "keep traded" or I killed 100 dumb NPCs. I want spells that make me scared to fight a mage but I also know that if I can just get my sword to his neck before he casts, I'll have another trophy for my house.

    3) I want a place I can hang my hat, my enemies' heads but invite friends over for some RPing. I want my guild to have a special place in the city that shows that we made our ruler proud and he rewarded us with something special. I want to build something cool that screams "I'm a lean, mean fighting machine but I suck at building stuff."

    4) I want a crafting system that makes people want to be crafters. I want to know the best crafters in the land and I want them to make me something special and I'm willing to pay more for it and what for it. And the day that my little porcelain unicorn shows up, I display it on my mantle!  -JK- Seriously though. I want that sword built the way I damn well want it and if I have to wait a week for it, that's fine. Because I know when I get it, I'll keep it for more than 30 seconds since I won't find anything better by killing hummingbirds.

    5) I want to fight for things that mean something to my realm. I want my death to have meaning, my victories to make me smile and to walk through the city and see and hear other players talking about what I did or what my guild did. To see players haggling for items with other players and not to see that same scripted kid say that same scripted line for the 10,000th time. I want to see my city grow with success but sometimes show signs of decay.  I might now want to see a "dance party" but I want to see something that we, as players, do to celebrate a tremendous victory. 

    And most importantly, I want to see other players enjoying this same stuff with me. I friggin' love online games and I have been making them professionally for over 25 years and I miss being a part of them as a developer but even more as a player. That's what I want and what I dream of, believe it or not.

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

        Thanks all, keep them coming.  In the mean time, here's my top five (these are *NOT* necessarily what you'll see in CU), I'm just thinking out loud. Don't see this as "MARK PROMISED US THIS!!!", pretty please?

    1) Combat that makes me feel like I'm really there. It's highly reactive, blood flows (doesn't gush out like a geyser) and everything lines up properly (sounds, effects, etc.) and smoothly.

    2) Out of the box thinking with spells/abilities. I want to be able to throw someone off a damn cliff and laugh as they fall through the air to be dashed upon the rocks below. I want to be on a ledge fighting someone and hold off a larger group until fall to my death as people laugh at me. I want abilities that are friggin earned because my realm is badass and not just because we "keep traded" or I killed 100 dumb NPCs. I want spells that make me scared to fight a mage but I also know that if I can just get my sword to his neck before he casts, I'll have another trophy for my house.

    3) I want a place I can hang my hat, my enemies' heads but invite friends over for some RPing. I want my guild to have a special place in the city that shows that we made our ruler proud and he rewarded us with something special. I want to build something cool that screams "I'm a lean, mean fighting machine but I suck at building stuff."

    4) I want a crafting system that makes people want to be crafters. I want to know the best crafters in the land and I want them to make me something special and I'm willing to pay more for it and what for it. And the day that my little porcelain unicorn shows up, I display it on my mantle!  -JK- Seriously though. I want that sword built the way I damn well want it and if I have to wait a week for it, that's fine. Because I know when I get it, I'll keep it for more than 30 seconds since I won't find anything better by killing hummingbirds.

    5) I want to fight for things that mean something to my realm. I want my death to have meaning, my victories to make me smile and to walk through the city and see and hear other players talking about what I did or what my guild did. To see players haggling for items with other players and not to see that same scripted kid say that same scripted line for the 10,000th time. I want to see my city grow with success but sometimes show signs of decay.  I might now want to see a "dance party" but I want to see something that we, as players, do to celebrate a tremendous victory. 

    And most importantly, I want to see other players enjoying this same stuff with me. I friggin' love online games and I have been making them professionally for over 25 years and I miss being a part of them as a developer but even more as a player. That's what I want and what I dream of, believe it or not.

    Mark

    Sadly Mark, with no PvE I feel this is impossible to do.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

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