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The Death of the MMO - thoughts on

SibcoeSibcoe Fremont, CAPosts: 60Member
Hey Steamers - 

I wanted to share this thoughts on episode with you guys, covering "The Death of the MMO" genre. I think that the genre is facing some uphill battles in its current form, and at the same time is evolving into something else. Check it out and let us know what you think:

Death of the MMO - thoughts on

Cheers 0/

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Comments

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    In the middle of watching it but it appears I totally feel the same way as you.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    Evoloving yes dieing no.

    People will always be looking to play these types of games with others. The solo mmo player seems the be the one most unhappy with mmos. I'm sure a new genre of games dedicated to them isn't far off. Games like GW2 are probably it's baby steps.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,919Member Uncommon

    My perspective: evolving yes, dieing yes.  Death of the old makes way for the new.

     

    I don't like it, but that in itself changes nothing.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    If everyone stopped calling these games MMOs I would be happy. They are nothing like the games that people played for years consistently, ie Everquest. The idea that content has to be developed consistently means that these new games are nothing like the original MMOs. You didn't really run out of things to do in the older MMOs. Expansion packs were added every so often and generally they provided more content for AT LEAST six more months. You were not in a hurry in those games. Why are people paying for the actual game and a monthly fee, or paying for items in the game, when the game doesn't enetertain them for how long a single player game would?
  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon

    An almost incoherent rant, with little content when you try and wright down what was said in order to respond. 

     

    Reminds me why I prefer to get memoranda and discussion papers rather than having rambling meetings with no agenda.

  • VernamVernam Federal Way, WAPosts: 50Member
    I like where you compared online gamers to drug addicts. My attention span for online games is pretty much non-existent nowadays. I'm at the point now where I can play them for only a few days at a time (maybe a few weeks for the really good ones like Rift and The Secret World). I downloaded Tera yesterday when it went free to play and I had it for maybe two hours before I uninstalled it.  I really do feel like a drug addict looking for my next fix. I've probably installed and uninstalled about 20 MMOs in the last 30 days. MMO longevity just doesn't exist for me anymore. I'm hoping that 2013 (the year of the sandboxes) will bring me a game I can play for years, but I seriously doubt it.
  • neosapienceneosapience Reno, NVPosts: 164Member
    The reason I get bored with online games so easily is because they have no depth to them. Everything boils down to being able to mash your buttons ever faster or acquire vast amounts of items, all so you can move on to the next stage and do it again. There's never any role playing, world interaction, exploration or experimentation. Even games that are steeped in lore always wind up being static and simplistic, when they could be dynamic and dramatic.

    Basically, MMOs are vapid eye-candy, designed to placate the average gamer and serve as a platform for social interaction (which is mainly just chatting). Creating a detailed, complex MMO would take a long time and a lot of money. It's simply too big of a risk for game developers and, thus, I will never play a game that is capable of holding my interest for very long.
  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,919Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neosapience
    mash your buttons ever faster or acquire vast amounts of items,

     

    My term for this is "kill things, take their stuff".  And you are quite right.  99% of the content is based on this.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,961Member Uncommon

    Well the guy in the video almost gets the real problem.

    He does talk about one of the largest problems, and thats about community. Developers are responsble for community tools to bring people togeather.  However he turns around and changes the solution to be adding content. he thinks adding content will keep players. This helps, but the andswer is community.

     

    Community = keeping players playing......Then add content !

     

    Auto grouping does not make a community

    Dungeon finders does not make community

    Easy game play does not make community

    Mega servers with zoning does not make up community

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    *sigh* Another sensationalist statement "MMOs are dead" made with rose-tinted glasses on. The video starts wrong, and proceeds going downhill fast... didn't bother watching it through.

    Its like starting with "The earth is actually flat". Nothing good can follow after that.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon
    PvP'ers do not make a community.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well I'm enjoying planetside 2. And I still think eve is more than worth playing.

    But for me personally mmo pve is dead. It hasn't really evolved beyond EQ2 / wow over the past decade or so and has gotten very stale and boring.

    Hoping to see how TESO turns out, hope it isn't wow pve yet again. There's potential there if they can replicate the pve of skyrim, which is a much better pve experience than you get in mmos. Or even if it ends up old school daoc pve that would at least be different and imo better than your wow clone style pve.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    My term for this is "kill things, take their stuff".  And you are quite right.  99% of the content is based on this.

    Essentially unchanged from AD&D, all these years forward, yes.

    But this revelation surely cannot be a stunner, to anyone who remembers these games are...games? Gauntlet, evolved? DOOM, grown up?

    The disappointment is strongest in those who expected these essentially simple entertainments to replace lives and last forever.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • worldalphaworldalpha Milton, ONPosts: 403Member
    Please don't die too soon.  Give me a fightin' chance!

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon

    While I am looking forward to Neverwinter and Elder Scrolls Online there are plenty of other titles releasing in the near future like ArcheAge, EQNext, DF:UW and Pathfinder (even though I am not interested AT ALL in those).

     

    The Hyperbole is strong with this one.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon

    "Eventually the game lost all its players. It's still going today. " - regarding UO

    He then goes on to say that EVE Online is struggling because it doesn't have World of Warcraft numbers. "Not even barely a million active users," as if that's the norm for MMOs.

    I stopped there. I doubt anything else beyond that was anything more than just more assumptions and rose-colored UO/EQ pining. However, I can easily see the video being a shrine for many here to worship at.

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    rose-colored UO/EQ pining

    Well, at least it's not DAoC pining, that got pretty thick, earlier this week.

    The target oldy game changes from day to day, but the QQ is consistent and eternal.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    rose-colored UO/EQ pining

    Well, at least it's not DAoC pining, that got pretty thick, earlier this week.

    The target oldy game changes from day to day, but the QQ is consistent and eternal.

    I found myself guilty of that one, as well, as I sat here squeeing at the thought of a new DAoC. :)

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,750Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well the guy in the video almost gets the real problem.

    He does talk about one of the largest problems, and thats about community. Developers are responsble for community tools to bring people togeather.  However he turns around and changes the solution to be adding content. he thinks adding content will keep players. This helps, but the andswer is community.

     

    Community = keeping players playing......Then add content !

     

    Auto grouping does not make a community

    Dungeon finders does not make community

    Easy game play does not make community

    Mega servers with zoning does not make up community

     I honestly don't ever remember leaving a MMO because I ran out of content....Now community issues I have left many times but never content.

  • SibcoeSibcoe Fremont, CAPosts: 60Member

    Hey everyone - 

     

    I really enjoyed reading all the comment, and am pleased this got a good discussion going.  One of the most satisfying aspects of making videos like these, is analyzing a topic and thinking you have it well covered and logical, then to see so many different opinions, it is really amazing.  I love that.  

     

    I think the MMO of old is dead.  I don't expcet to ever see another UO/EQ, and that is fine and good, probably if I was presented a new EQ today, I would not play it, I dare say most would not.  

     

    I tihnk some MMO games with a small playerbase, like EVE are really good games, but too niche to support a genre, that is why I called them out as not being repersentative of a htriving genre.  

    I think these are all important debates to have, sorry some of you did not find value in the video, I would love to hear what you would enjoy watching - game/topic/style etc.  

    More to come from RTG.

     

    Cheers 0/

     

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well the guy in the video almost gets the real problem.

    He does talk about one of the largest problems, and thats about community. Developers are responsble for community tools to bring people togeather.  However he turns around and changes the solution to be adding content. he thinks adding content will keep players. This helps, but the andswer is community.

     

    Community = keeping players playing......Then add content !

     

    Auto grouping does not make a community

    Dungeon finders does not make community

    Easy game play does not make community

    Mega servers with zoning does not make up community

     I honestly don't ever remember leaving a MMO because I ran out of content....Now community issues I have left many times but never content.

     I've never actually left any game due to community or lack of content.  The only reason I've left a game is because I'm bored with the content being offered.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    If everyone stopped calling these games MMOs I would be happy. They are nothing like the games that people played for years consistently, ie Everquest. The idea that content has to be developed consistently means that these new games are nothing like the original MMOs. You didn't really run out of things to do in the older MMOs. Expansion packs were added every so often and generally they provided more content for AT LEAST six more months. You were not in a hurry in those games. Why are people paying for the actual game and a monthly fee, or paying for items in the game, when the game doesn't enetertain them for how long a single player game would?

     Well, language is funny.  I wished people would stop calling mmorpgs mmos as that makes things less clear and leads to exactly what  you are complaining about.  SO call mmorpgs mmorpgs and not mmos.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    My perspective: evolving yes, dieing yes.  Death of the old makes way for the new.

     

    I don't like it, but that in itself changes nothing.

     

    More like evolving and changing.

    I didn't watch the video, but I suspect it's the same old "Mobile gaming gonna kill the MMOs!" - I find it far more likely that clever developers will start to integrate their MMO's into mobile platforms, through linked mini-games, apps like WoW's armory, etc...

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,441Member Uncommon

    edit:whatever

    Sorry Sibcoe, but you came to the wrong forum to have a real discussion. They don't happen here with potentially hyperbolic titles. That's all they need to see in order to reject and end the discussion.

  • ScottgunScottgun Williamsville, NYPosts: 356Member

    The video didn't conclude that mmorpgs are dead. Basically what it was was 10 minutes of preface to tell us how awesome that bucket of failsauce Marvel Heroes is going to be.

     

     

    Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

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