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Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Eir_S I see a few people here and there (not the majority for sure) saying faction locks is a good thing. Exactly how...? This is the worst idea i've heard in a long time. I am still somewhat interested in the game, but don't make this out to be some genius development plan when it's just something that limits the player in a game series that is traditionally all about NOT limiting the player. It's pure fail.
It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.
That's completely different though. In SWTOR, you were forced to repeat content through a very linear planet path early on. People didn't like the lack of choice. Why those same people are going to be happy with a different lack of choice is beyond me, but I guess we'll see. The point is, if people feel they're not allowed to do what they want, they lose interest pretty fast. MMOs are supposed to be getting more varied, not more restrictive.
Also, skimming your argument with the guy up there, I think he's talking about what I just thought about... what if you want to roll the same faction for all your characters? You're going to have to repeat content and in much the same way as SWTOR, you can't really do anything about it because it's going to be nearly as linear. Factions limit gameplay, and locked factions just limit it more.
All I can say is it never bothered me in DAOC.
I know what he's talking about, if you've read one of his posts you've read them all on this subject, he doesn't like anything about this setup, that's his choice to make. I'm simply speaking of my time in DAOC, and what people may like about this type of setup, after seeing one playfield, you have two more to experience.
When it comes to individual zone size and content within I have no idea, nor does anyone else, so I wsn't even thinking at all about rolling alts within the same alliance, as the point of the alt is to see the differnt lands, not diferent races.
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Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Combat. I repeat. Again. Its alpha. Ok? Got it? Alpha before beta... You know that, right?
Hold the front page....you mean to say, due to the complaints, suggestions, observations of people during testing the designers changed, modified and/or improved the game???
And here I thought we were all wasting our breath and that nothing would ever change! Well slap my thigh and call me Suzie, I guess I will keep posting my thoughts and opinions, thanks for the moral boost.
Thing is... its not going to change because you want to, but because their goals are not reached yet. It doesnt change due to your (or mine) complaints or observations... it changes because devs have their standards - and until they reach them within a reasonable time before deadline, it will continue to change.
For instance... its pointless to argue about faction lock - they wont change it. Specially when they already announced how its going to work. Theres no changes in mechanics after that - now its all about working on the mould they already presented - its not the time to create another mould, specially one that goes against what the game creator himself wants to do and how he wants his game to be - that concept would change his idea of the game completely - so much it would actually change the identity of the game and it wouldnt be "his game" after all... he might as well leave if he was willing to change the original concept.
This doesnt work like "Alpha - public opinion - beta" lol... if this ever works like this, then there will be no game ever again because "public opinion" is a clusterfuck and people dont even know what they want. Public opinion takes place in betas and sometimes is considered, sometimes is not - but never involves a change to core mechanics - its purpose are tune-ups, a little thing here, other there... "the hand holding the knife is bent backwards after I sit down in location x and after I open my mailbox" or "omg backstab does 100.000.000 damage if you drink potion A" - its really polishment rather than "creating" or "changing core mechanics".
When you announce the cake, the shape of the cake will not change... but you can add flavours and toppings.
Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by Distopia
No I read your post, and I'm sorry if you want toons from the same alliance, doesn't change what I said, you simply found what you thought was a problem with it...
It is a problem. No if's, no buts. If your solution is "sorry you have to roll another faction to prevent repeating content" then that is a cop out, bad design and poor foresight.
You used me, an altaholic, to reinforce your argument. When i let you know that your argument fails you have no where else to go. You have to add a stipulation that there is enough content as long as you only roll 1 character per faction. Not a solution to the problem, sorry.
That logic of game design is about as useful as the GW2 design allowing you to transfer servers so everyone quits a losing faction to join a winning one. BAD design.
My theory is based on past experience, and I was referring specifically to rolling an alt on a different alliance, which places you outside of the point I was making, no copout about it.
For the rest of your post... I didn't design it so I feel no need to defend what you think is bad design....
Err.. not to get too involved in your argument here, but since your initial reply about this was to me, you did say "people who like alts". That includes a lot of people, like Maelwydd (and myself I guess), who don't like faction locks.
I didn't say everyone who likes alts...
Originally posted by Distopia It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.
Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by Distopia It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.
/sigh does this round and round have a point?
Originally posted by JimmyYO Can't believe some people actually think this will be like DAOC. The players are getting more desperate for a single decent MMO every day........haha
I haven't seen anyone say it will be like DAOC, DAOC is simply the game that most resembles ESO's world setup.
Well... hmm... yes! lol I am! Im hoping this will be like DAoC hehe
But I have been wrong before... <cough>WAR<cough>
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by Distopia It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.
Do you read what you write and what others write. You stated race locked factions are good for people who like alts. I and others who like playing alts explain why it isn't. Is it too hard to grasp that your argument is invalid and that is why people are pointing out where you are wrong in the arguments you use?
Does it have a point?
Yes. People, myself included do not like the direction the game has taken and are voicing our opinions, stating why and providing reasons why. Valid reasons not just "if you don't like it don't play it" or "It is fine as long as you don't create 2 characters in the same faction". That isn't going to change the fact that, for people who like playing alts there is a potentially HUGE pitfall in that by locking content you are forcing people into doing something they don't want to do and in terms of TES games have never had to do before. MMO or not, taking the playertbase and basically saying screw you, it is our design, while it is the designers perogative, is certainly not going to get people excited about buying the game.
Originally posted by Maelwydd
DId you really not understand what I was talking about? Maybe I misspoke, by saying my opening line. The question was asked what is good about it? I answered what i felt was good about it. I still feel that's what's good about it.
I just figured it would be obvious I was referring to there being two different lands to explore aside from the first you rolled on.
I still fail to see how it's an invalid thing to say.
(red) If all you want is a platform to say what you feel about it, why keep replying to me? I frankly don't care, which Is why I won't discuss your points.
Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by Distopia It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.
Well it certainly has got people excited for the game, even on this site (which normally hates themeparks) it has seen the excitement rise not drop.
And it IS good for alts, it means you get to roll 3 alts and not see any repeated pve content, thats a good thing imho. Granted there are restriction YOU may not like, doesn't change the fact that having content that can only be accessed on an alt gives more reason to roll one than having all content accessible on your main.
Its not saying "screw you" to the player base at all, because there are plenty of people who are happy with the design choice, it's a design choice that has been made and isn't going to change no matter how much you spit and moan about it, because its a design choice thats central to the plot.
well str8 to OP (sorry no time to read all your posts) i would say that this video with the 3 factions its awesome and that guy is the coolest storyteller i have ever seen
BUT locked maps its NOT good ... its terrible i would say to be locked to one faction and not be able to choose stance ...
the fights they will be like TES series which is good and reminds DarkFall play style with the available first person camera which is awesome
so it has some really good points but it also has some bad points, i am looking into that game but not waiting and preorder etc ...
Originally posted by loulaki well str8 to OP (sorry no time to read all your posts) i would say that this video with the 3 factions its awesome and that guy is the coolest storyteller i have ever seen BUT locked maps its NOT good ... its terrible i would say to be locked to one faction and not be able to choose stance ... the fights they will be like TES series which is good and reminds DarkFall play style with the available first person camera which is awesome so it has some really good points but it also has some bad points, i am looking into that game but not waiting and preorder etc ...
TESO differs from the TES series in first person mode, because, while you can zoom into 1st person, you can't see your hands or weapons or attacks while in 1st person mode. TES fans will buy this game, then go .. whhhaat?
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Originally posted by donjuanagain You know what, I dont care how good or how bad this game turns out to be. I am a sucker and will try a new game regardless if I am told its a steaming pile and to stay away. Also, Ill probably even drop the cash for the collectors edition just to take it a step further so if it really turns out to be a stinker for me (SWTOR) it will be a real kick in the junk. I am a MMO whore.
Aside from the collector's edition part, I feel the same way. I try most every MMO that comes out just to get a feel for it and see what all the press is about. That doesn't mean I'll like it or stay with it, and frankly, I've already stated that the faction locks (while somewhat unappealing) probably wouldn't affect MY experience since I don't put as much weight into the concept, but yeah.. if I don't get into the beta, I'll just give the trial a shot when it comes out. Some people, however, will avoid the game entirely based on a feature it has or doesn't have.
Originally posted by Karteli Originally posted by deakon Originally posted by Karteli Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Originally posted by Karteli Hmm Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent. It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP. The combat looks really bad. Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively. People who know games look past the particle effects. Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything .. you just stand there, But by all means, advertise away!
This again? Damn you guys dont quit...
Yes there is faction lock - which is GOOD.
Now where does it say that areas are "less than wow single continent" - cyrodiil alone is 1:1 to oblivion - are you crazy?
And please show us the footage of the game cause we only have alphas and specially that first person mode you talk about.
Why do people talk about stuff they know nothing about?
now regarding that video, op... you can become a vampire or a werewolf as a "perk". Theres a newer video around that they say you can.
And dont listen to haters... these guys destroy any good community and bring out the worse in you - yes TESO hopefully will be a great great mmo from what the devs have shown and told so far.
Did you even check out the map for the gameworld of TESO? Did you really think than Cyrodiil is magically smaller than other areas with known size?
Watch the trailers man. Lame footage when it comes to combat. I showed the trailer to my buddies and we all agree combat was pretty freakin lame. Frontal combat scenes were shown in 2 spots in the last 9 minute trailer. Beyond that it was always from the backside, with huge whooptie-doo particle effects to make the scene look interesting.
Oblivion is over half the size of kalimdor, we get that plus our faction zones each, so unless you are saying our entire pve leveling area (per faction) is smaller than the pvp map, we will get access to more than a vanilla continent.
I'd say, no Oblivion isn't. Maps of size show otherwise, as you have seen already.
It's more like Cyrodiil is about 1/3 the size of a WoW continent. If you don't like seeing facts, then stop bringing it up.
So, Cyrodiil can hold 2000 players? Mmm Hmm ...
Oblivion is NOT half the size of a WoW continent. Devs stated TESO was a 1:1 comparison to Oblivion.
no they stated that can hold 200 players maximum
Originally posted by saurus123 no they stated that can hold 200 players maximum
No they didn't, heres a quote from 11 days ago
"We're planning on having 2,000 people at once in Cyrodiil," says Firor. "In a particular fight our client is optimised to have 200 players on-screen at one time, which means you'll have very large battles within an even larger battlefield."
or from 2 weeks ago:
"Every one of the figures in that video was a human player. We got all of our devs into the game for a PvP test, and then captured that sequence with them. It was all in-game. Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO’s client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time. That particular scene had about 115 players on each side."
Originally posted by deakon Originally posted by saurus123 no they stated that can hold 200 players maximum
dont you love haters or fanbois of other games who spread misinformation?
All the ideas that are being tossed into this game just seem completely out of place. Taking a game that was known for a certain style and feel of freedom. Then doing everything you possibly can to make it different and try to make it into a different game. If Elder Scrolls is going to be more like Daoc than an ES game then I will not be getting it. Sure some will say good, we dont need you. I remember seeing a lot of that going on at the forums for Swtor. People quit and everyone said no one cares, well that is until the game goes belly up and production slows.
At this point I would rather spend more money on Skryim and have them open some sort of arena system than mess with a mostly pvp driven game.
There's a lot of MMOs i'm looking forward to this year: FFXIV relaunch, Firefall, Defiance, Bless, TESO and to a lesser extent Neverwinter Online.
TESO I feel has the strongest potential of the above - just purely because it's from a company that has a long lineage of awesome games, it isn't gonna be forced out the door early by some money grubbing parent company (See: SWTOR, GW2) and it's a franchise/universe that most people love. It also has a monstrous budget with a 300+ staff team which relieves any chance of limitations they might have. I sometimes feel like GW2 needed another 50 people and 6 more months in the cooker to live up to half of what they promised.
I also feel like the team they have (Ex-Mythic employees namely) really know the MMO industry and like to innovate yet deliver outstanding systems on top of that.
Could it flop? I doubt it. Could it disappoint? Maybe a little. It has however been in development secretly for the past 6 years and has a real chance to be awesome, so here's to hoping.
I think the key thing to make sure you don't disappoint yourself though is walk in expecting a carbon copy of a single player Elder Scrolls game because this is always going to be an MMO first, which means standard MMO systems will be present.
It´s a trick to stretch content, you need 3 characters to see all of the game? Have fun leveling alts? Meh..
Bad idea, lazy design. I don´t want 3 characters, I want a seamless world explorable for ONE character.
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Originally posted by FromHell It´s a trick to stretch content, you need 3 characters to see all of the game? Have fun leveling alts? Meh.. Bad idea, lazy design. I don´t want 3 characters, I want a seamless world exploreable for ONE character
how is that "lazy"? if anything its less lazy as you can level 3 characters and see completely differn't content unlike other games like TERA for instance where every character pretty much follows the same path for a good part of the game
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Um, there's no way in hell they can hope to have 100% individual content for each faction - it's more than likely the starting zone(s) will be faction restricted, then you'll break out into the same zones with each other. Pretty much every single faction based MMO does this, it's not exactly a "new" idea or some kind of trick lol.
So yeah, if you want to see the first 10 levels of each faction, you'll need 3 characters.
Originally posted by SuperNick Originally posted by FromHell It´s a trick to stretch content, you need 3 characters to see all of the game? Have fun leveling alts? Meh.. Bad idea, lazy design. I don´t want 3 characters, I want a seamless world exploreable for ONE character
No the coutries are faction specific, only cyrodiil (the pvp map is shared)