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How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.
Well, now you know.
I am not forced to do endgame. Isn't that what we are talking about? Being forced to do or not do something?
And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind? The game itself?
Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?
Seriously? Name one. Name a trinity game that's ever been hard and not just had enemies with killer AOE's and gobs and gobs of HP that depended on very little other than memorizing a pattern and increasing chances of victory based on what gear you're wearing and not necessarily how well you play?
Oh and then name "plenty".
Their difficulty is as hollow as the system is depends on. I enjoy trinity games from time to time, but come on.. they've never been hard. It's all artificial. It always has been, but they've got you fooled.
Actually, some of the puzzles in TSW are quite hard. But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole game is. But then what MMORPG has actually been hard, much less a trinity-based one.
I think he's saying that to experience ALL of the content, you're going to have to raid. Sure, endgame is never necessary to enjoy a game, but to enjoy it fully, you're going to need to bust your ass for weeks or more likely, months, for the low low chance of getting those purple pants that increase the odds people will invite you to another raid. It's a ridiculous hamster wheel that I never really noticed the futility of until I got off of it for a while, stepped back, and saw the big picture.
Well, if you are putting that clause in, then every game forces you to experience its content, doesn't it? Therefore, I am forced to do the grind in every game (GW2 included).
Its not about endgame its about philosophy behind the game.
If i want to play latest content, yes, im forced to grind that gear in a very specific way, and thus you cannot play how you like.
But then, noone is forced to play SWTOR at all, its just your example of the game that severly limits one aspect of gameplay opposed to one which doesnt.
And, what a coincidence, i also answered post above because i knew youll go there.
I didnt know that puzzles require trinity or that without trinity you cant have puzzles. Its actually confirmation that once you disregard trinity you can make game hard, you cant make trinity hard because its most simple model there is.You're changing the argument.
I originally applied to Aer's statement (see below). What you are talking about is very different. As for your final comment, again you are changing what I was saying.
"how are you forced to do dungeons? or WvW? or how are you forced to do the new guild quests they are adding? its all optional stuff to allow people to play in groups in a MMO.. Can you hit level 80 and not do a single one of those grouped things? can you get full set of exotic gear and not be forced into a group a single second? do people even read what they write sometimes? you are seriouslly bitching about them adding more group content in an MMO? There is so much content you can complete in this game at the solo level some additional group stuff is very welcomed"
Ok so say the word "forced" is replaced with "funnelled". I've never felt funnelled in GW1 or GW2. You can try and make an argument that the FotM addition is funnelling and I'd agree to some small degree it is. However, it is not required to play any content in the game.
Contrast this to the traditional raiding games they are usually tiered so that you are required to get all or some of the drops from the first to move to the second. So you can not experience all of the content without going through the funnel. You certainly can resist funnelling sounds like you do but your not experincing the whole game. If you don't want to good on you then.
Read Aerowyn's statement I was debating. I can replace "funnelled" in there and it still applies. I am not funnelled to do any of those other activities (Flashpoints, Raiding, etc) to get to max level.
It mentiones MORE than going to max level, if you do selective reading you get your responses.
As a matter of fact, staement about gear has more bearing to person Aerowyn responded to because thats what he QQes about because thats what SWTOR, WoW, Rift, LOTRO and the rest are all about and thats what GW2 does in completely different way and you wont end up with gimped character because youre forced to do things you dont like like in those games.
I don't feel forced to play most games. I felt forced to play a gear grind in WoW. You know there's a reason for that right? They string you along so that you have to aquire better gear before you can aquire better gear. That's force. Getting to level 80 and being able to buy max stat gear OR just going into a lvl 80 dungeon without it is not. Games like WoW are designed to keep you p(l)aying. You're stretching this pretty far by saying "every game". Don't be obtuse, you know what I mean.
Anyway, if your argument is that you aren't forced to play endgame, true, no one is and I agree. Mine is that you cannot experience all of the content in most MMOs like you can in GW2 without a massive, repetitive grind (usually with people you can't stand in my experience).
OK re-read Aerowyn's statement says more then just max level it talks about gear as well. No doubt in the raid oriented games I've played you can indeed get to make max level in may different ways that don't require you to raid. However, to get the best gear you are certainly funneled to the raid content.
I think the dodging acheivement was a superb idea, that helps guide players to become better players. Anet really has some good ideas for using simple things to have great consequences.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
You aren't forced to do end game, but if you want you will have to grind gear doing quests or dungeons.
You aren't forced to get max stats, but if you want you need to do end game.
GW2 changes that (now that Anet is sorting that ascended debacle) by allowing you to get max stats by doing whatever you want and allowing to enjoy whatever activities you want without a gear check.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Aerowyn's statement:
"how are you forced to do dungeons? or WvW? or how are you forced to do the new guild quests they are adding? its all optional stuff to allow people to play in groups in a MMO.. Can you hit level 80 and not do a single one of those grouped things? can you get full set of exotic gear and not be forced into a group a single second? do people even read what they write sometimes? you are seriouslly bitching about them adding more group content in an MMO? There is so much content you can complete in this game at the solo level some additional group stuff is very welcomed"
I was replying to the parts highlighted. But the mention of exotic gear.....there is no eqivalent in SWTOR (actually I guess it is the social gear where you do have to do some sort of social grind)..but in the end, you are not forced to have those social gear items for anything in the game as they are just cosmetic much like the exotic gear in GW2.
I jumped in the argument halfway and was just responding to the point of 'naming a trinity based game with difficulty'.
So, TSW is trinity game and does have some difficult elements. Just pointing out that fact.
What about the dungeons? If I want to experience all that is GW2 I need to do the dungeons. I hated the dungeon experience. So call it "grind", call it "dungeons"...if you want to experience the entirety of a game, chances are you are going to experience something you dont enjoy.
See, this is something I don't understand. I get trying to get better gear to boost your gameplay experience for the journey...but the whole notion of getting max stats for the sake of it all just doesn't jive with me. I just don't get it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Legendaries......on par with the best korean grinder/RNG games known to man.
Personal story....solo until you get to the last part and then its forced grouping.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
where did a say anywhere it was unique to GW2? i was stating you can play how you want in this game solo or group and get to 80 but like all MMOs there is plenty of content that is for "GROUPS" thats all and really not sure how people can get mad by that. Not sure why you assumed I was saying this was unique to GW2.. i just found itgrowls statement very odd that it sounded like he is upset they are adding group content.. thats all
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
That's your opinion, but in my almost 13 years of MMORPG gaming, I've very rarely have been in a bad group, and even more rare than that has it been because someone was being a tool. I just haven't really run into the situations you illustrate in your post. I happen to like very rigid group roles like classic MMORPG's. It taught people how to work together and people got to know not only their classes very well, but the classes of the people who they played with day in and day out.
I gave GW2 a chance, fulling expecting to have fun, but in the end it felt like every class was essentially a dps/support character which is incredibly boring, not to mention not very effective for grouping...at least for noobs to the game.