I was they same exact way OP. I was immune to GW2 hype because of it the same reason.
I picked up AoW while being burnt out of PS2 and waiting / disappointed with the delay for DF:UW. After 2 weeks of the first of CB one I stopped knowing there ws going to be a wipe. 1 week later I found myself jones'n to get back in. After the first week of CB2, I had to rethink how I felt about asian VS western games.
AoW turned my 9 years of PC gaming logic upside down. The only reasoning I could figure why AoW is so different form any asian (or western) game I've played, was that it was a Chinese game not Korean.
If AA is good, the repopulation will be the laststand for Western gaming in my book.
The art style is one reason I don't like them, it's been covered already i.e. big weapons & what sex is it. The other, and this will be a generalization because my experience with them is limited, but the few I have played are total grind fests and I like doing something other than killing for sake of killing. Again, that is a generalization and I'm sure there are games where that isn't true but I haven't played them and most likely never will, see art style comment.
I found FFXIV (after Yoshida took over) to have great developer contact with the English speaking community. But unlike many Korean games the FF online games are not seperate versions of the game for the Japanese and the world communities.
I can understand the art complaints if you don't like an art style like I don't particularly like the art style of guild wars, world of warcraft, aion, or Lord of the Rings Online it is hard to get over that.
But the complaints of grinding, lack of content, etc. as being a norm in asian developed MMO's I think is taking liberties with stereotyping. How anyone can look at a game like FFXI and say it lacks content just has no credibility in speaking on the subject of MMO's.
I'm comfortable with most aspects of Asian MMOs. I haven't played tons, but other than click to move and gender locked classes in some games, most I've played are to my liking.
I'd much rather play a slow leveling grindy game than one with forced cut-scene storyline and quest lines that I can't escape.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I found FFXIV (after Yoshida took over) to have great developer contact with the English speaking community. But unlike many Korean games the FF online games are not seperate versions of the game for the Japanese and the world communities.
I can understand the art complaints if you don't like an art style like I don't particularly like the art style of guild wars, world of warcraft, aion, or Lord of the Rings Online it is hard to get over that.
But the complaints of grinding, lack of content, etc. as being a norm in asian developed MMO's I think is taking liberties with stereotyping. How anyone can look at a game like FFXI and say it lacks content just has no credibility in speaking on the subject of MMO's.
I like the Asian mmos and starting to despise the way NA/EU of doing them.
While i agree that asian mmos DOES have the problems you mentioned and the art-style can, sometimes, be a little over the top, the gameplay and dificulty does fit my needs more than the eazy going/boring western counter parts.
This is why I hate them. You know, you'd think with asian's being so far ahead of everyone in math and physics that they would be a "little" more down to earth in the understanding of gravity/weight/mass etc.
Maybe that's one of the reasons they don't do too well here - we've got one view of How Things Should Be in an MMO and anything that violates that is summarily rejected.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Many people in Asia like to eat/have steamed buns and rice gruel for breakfast. In the West, people like pancakes, eggs and toast. I don't care how "good" the rice gruel is, I don't like rice gruel. Even "good" rice gruel is bad to me for breakfast. I don't care how many people like rice gruel or tell me to like rice gruel. I don't like rice gruel. In the same way, tastes differ for MMOs. I don't care how flashy a new Korean/Chinese MMO is, because by and large, they are very similar in gameplay, mechanics, and grind to the ones that came before. And seeing the 100th version of basically the same Asian MMO is not going to change that. (I just tried Age of Wushu for a couple weeks, and it had most of the same failings of other games of the same ilk.)
Originally posted by Burntvet Many people in Asia like to eat/have steamed buns and rice gruel for breakfast. In the West, people like pancakes, eggs and toast. I don't care how "good" the rice gruel is, I don't like rice gruel. Even "good" rice gruel is bad to me for breakfast. I don't care how many people like rice gruel or tell me to like rice gruel. I don't like rice gruel. In the same way, tastes differ for MMOs. I don't care how flashy a new Korean/Chinese MMO is, because by and large, they are very similar in gameplay, mechanics, and grind to the ones that came before. And seeing the 100th version of basically the same Asian MMO is not going to change that. (I just tried Age of Wushu for a couple weeks, and it had most of the same failings of other games of the same ilk.)
my exact sentiments
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Maybe that's one of the reasons they don't do too well here - we've got one view of How Things Should Be in an MMO and anything that violates that is summarily rejected.
Yes? When's the last time you saw a new title, any title, "did well here"? Quick review of the last 15 years this site's been open?
Not just azn games, not by a long shot.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I found FFXIV (after Yoshida took over) to have great developer contact with the English speaking community. But unlike many Korean games the FF online games are not seperate versions of the game for the Japanese and the world communities.
I can understand the art complaints if you don't like an art style like I don't particularly like the art style of guild wars, world of warcraft, aion, or Lord of the Rings Online it is hard to get over that.
But the complaints of grinding, lack of content, etc. as being a norm in asian developed MMO's I think is taking liberties with stereotyping. How anyone can look at a game like FFXI and say it lacks content just has no credibility in speaking on the subject of MMO's.
Arent the FF games made in Japan?
Yeah I mean I pointed out that I thought. Japan is in Asia though, are people only having problems with Chinese and Korean made MMO's?
Originally posted by Burntvet Many people in Asia like to eat/have steamed buns and rice gruel for breakfast. In the West, people like pancakes, eggs and toast. I don't care how "good" the rice gruel is, I don't like rice gruel. Even "good" rice gruel is bad to me for breakfast. I don't care how many people like rice gruel or tell me to like rice gruel. I don't like rice gruel. In the same way, tastes differ for MMOs. I don't care how flashy a new Korean/Chinese MMO is, because by and large, they are very similar in gameplay, mechanics, and grind to the ones that came before. And seeing the 100th version of basically the same Asian MMO is not going to change that. (I just tried Age of Wushu for a couple weeks, and it had most of the same failings of other games of the same ilk.)
What is the implication here that "Asians" just have different tastes than people in the West?
Have you ever had Grits? They are disgusting, should we not enjoy any form of entertainment that derives from Grit eating lands? Your whole post just reaks of racism, and maybe that wasn't your intention but the implication is just that. Korean people and Chinese people, and Japanese people all have varying tastes in video games etc. Any gamer older than 15-16 years old should have fond memories of playing Nintendo/Sega/Sony classics which were developed in Asian countries so your whole "Asians just have incompatable palletes for all things when compared to Western audiences" is more than ridiculous, it is taking stereotyping based on a few free to play MMO's you played (a genre of MMO of which there is plenty of trash in the West too) and applying it to all people in Asia.
It just boggles my mind, and if you aren't racist I can't fathom why you lump billions of people together and write them off in such a way especially with such a demeaning comparison using rice gruel as your example of how Asian people are "just different".
This is why I hate them. You know, you'd think with asian's being so far ahead of everyone in math and physics that they would be a "little" more down to earth in the understanding of gravity/weight/mass etc.
Yeah next time you're standing in front of a 50 foot tall demon blocking his hits with your " correctly sized and weighted " sword let me know what you think of how great western games are on math and physics.
according to OP logic, the worst example of Asian bad game is European, now NA, runescape.
full of bugs, cheat users and just not banned bots, it has worst ever support (if we can call it as such) and very poor account security (or I don't know why this game has so many hacks).
plus it also has non realistic graphic (I don't mind btw as it Java based game) and unseen grindfest.
BUT
this game has years of success and still have lot of subs.
May be we should stop being racist and generalize all. May be we should just admit, are good games and bad games, independently where they were made.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
The problem with Asian MMOs in the West is, the ones that they try to the West are not the same ones that Asian themselves play a lot of times.
For example there is no western version of the historical ones like Three Kingdoms and Nobanaga's Ambition because I think they assumed that you guys a) would not understand or have knowledge in the settings, b) would not be interested in the settings and c) it is not going to sell well in the west and you ain't gonna spend money on something you don't understand/can't relate to. Thus they don't bother with translating it and releasing it in the West.
So in a way that makes some of the Asian MMOs that are exclusively for Asian markets a lot better made than the ones that they have plans to release to the West.
In a way it is a similar situation to how Japanese keeps all the good electronics and best spec cars sells in the country and only sell to the west the lower model, because they can't envision you guys spending 100k on a Honda.
I think if the West is looking for good mmos from the East, Russia and Eastern Europe will be the place to look for, instead of Asia - because there is a lot more similiarities to the Western cultures compare to Asia and also Russia and Eastern Europe has a lot weaker domestic markets than Asia and do not hesitate to sell to the west.
PS: Asian here and have worked many years in Asia before so I know the mentality.
Originally posted by Daxamar Originally posted by Murugan I found FFXIV (after Yoshida took over) to have great developer contact with the English speaking community. But unlike many Korean games the FF online games are not seperate versions of the game for the Japanese and the world communities.I can understand the art complaints if you don't like an art style like I don't particularly like the art style of guild wars, world of warcraft, aion, or Lord of the Rings Online it is hard to get over that.But the complaints of grinding, lack of content, etc. as being a norm in asian developed MMO's I think is taking liberties with stereotyping. How anyone can look at a game like FFXI and say it lacks content just has no credibility in speaking on the subject of MMO's.
Arent the FF games made in Japan?
Yeah I mean I pointed out that I thought. Japan is in Asia though, are people only having problems with Chinese and Korean made MMO's?
Originally posted by Burntvet Many people in Asia like to eat/have steamed buns and rice gruel for breakfast. In the West, people like pancakes, eggs and toast. I don't care how "good" the rice gruel is, I don't like rice gruel. Even "good" rice gruel is bad to me for breakfast. I don't care how many people like rice gruel or tell me to like rice gruel. I don't like rice gruel. In the same way, tastes differ for MMOs. I don't care how flashy a new Korean/Chinese MMO is, because by and large, they are very similar in gameplay, mechanics, and grind to the ones that came before. And seeing the 100th version of basically the same Asian MMO is not going to change that. (I just tried Age of Wushu for a couple weeks, and it had most of the same failings of other games of the same ilk.)
What is the implication here that "Asians" just have different tastes than people in the West?
Have you ever had Grits? They are disgusting, should we not enjoy any form of entertainment that derives from Grit eating lands? Your whole post just reaks of racism, and maybe that wasn't your intention but the implication is just that. Korean people and Chinese people, and Japanese people all have varying tastes in video games etc. Any gamer older than 15-16 years old should have fond memories of playing Nintendo/Sega/Sony classics which were developed in Asian countries so your whole "Asians just have incompatable palletes for all things when compared to Western audiences" is more than ridiculous, it is taking stereotyping based on a few free to play MMO's you played (a genre of MMO of which there is plenty of trash in the West too) and applying it to all people in Asia.
It just boggles my mind, and if you aren't racist I can't fathom why you lump billions of people together and write them off in such a way especially with such a demeaning comparison using rice gruel as your example of how Asian people are "just different".
Whatever man, I lived in Asia for several years and speak a couple of the languages and know the people, and YES, tastes are different there as compared to the West. That is especially true in S.Korea and Taiwan as applied to gaming... they LIKE very grindy MMOs there (and Starcraft). Mostly because kids hang out in PC bangs a lot more than kids do in the West. (And as to rice gruel or porridge, it is a common breakfast dish in Skorea, Thailand, China, and Japan, as I have seen it in all of those places. So the comparison is not out of bounds. It is not "racist", whatever that means, it is an actual fact.)
some of you yelling about the OP here being racist or generalizing are missing his point i think . Hes trying to be politically correct with it. I know i do not tend to care one bit for asian mmorpgs either but thats because every week there is some garbage POS mmo coming out of some asian country that is basically just made to make money and nothing more. There is some solid asian games out there to , Tera and Aion being great examples but lets be real both of them are now free to play and never held a huge western audience. The artstyle while beautiful in both of those games its still an aquired taste. L2 did do very well over here though and is worth mentioning. But I think if a terrible cash grab mmo didnt come out of asia every week people would have a better opinion of asian mmorpgs.
Hell to be honest I played two different korean grinders that both literally stole the sound sets from world of warcraft and I actually reported them to blizzard sending them the files so they could see for themselves. You cannot tell me that isnt a cash grab and thieft. If less shady sleezy asian companies would stop sending so much garbage and publishers like Aeria and Gpotato stopped picking them up trying to make a buck than a lot of people including myself would praise the great ones that do come out of asia.
This is why I hate them. You know, you'd think with asian's being so far ahead of everyone in math and physics that they would be a "little" more down to earth in the understanding of gravity/weight/mass etc.
Maybe that's one of the reasons they don't do too well here - we've got one view of How Things Should Be in an MMO and anything that violates that is summarily rejected.
Likely true. My issue isn't with game mechanics, just the art style and such really. If that was say a massive person wielding that sword, I'd have no issue with it, or say if she was wearing a exoskeletal frame, I guess I just want "SOME" form of grounding in the basic principles of reality. Otherwise I can't connect to it, and it ruins ALL sense of immersion in the game world. It's one thing to have the character be some sort of higher being posessing godlike strength, it's another completely when the person wielding such objects is portrayed as just an average joe.
PS: I did look for a even more profound picture I saw a year ago of a frail 5 year old girl weilding a semi-truck sized axe. It made me want to punch an artist.
Originally posted by DamonVile
Yeah next time you're standing in front of a 50 foot tall demon blocking his hits with your " correctly sized and weighted " sword let me know what you think of how great western games are on math and physics.
Oh you'll get no argument here, they piss me off as well. The difference is in the ammount that occurs in each type of game. In western games, thats FAR more rare than in asian games, where it is basically the norm. (Seeing normal sized weapons in an asian game, take a momment and try to recall seeing some... it's ok, no rush... Done? Yeah thats my point.)
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
I find them far too grindy and that chat channels/mail boxes get so full of gold selling spam that you have no room for anything else. Support wouldn't help, and the ignore feature was useless since new gold selling toons were made daily. At level cap, there's nothing to do except pvp.
Comments
I was they same exact way OP. I was immune to GW2 hype because of it the same reason.
I picked up AoW while being burnt out of PS2 and waiting / disappointed with the delay for DF:UW. After 2 weeks of the first of CB one I stopped knowing there ws going to be a wipe. 1 week later I found myself jones'n to get back in. After the first week of CB2, I had to rethink how I felt about asian VS western games.
AoW turned my 9 years of PC gaming logic upside down. The only reasoning I could figure why AoW is so different form any asian (or western) game I've played, was that it was a Chinese game not Korean.
If AA is good, the repopulation will be the laststand for Western gaming in my book.
I liked TERA and Aion when I played them, also looking forward to Archeage. Bein an Asian MMO does not bother me in the least.
I actully like the grinddy game. To me it makes them last longer. GW2 is a good example. I made level 80, got exotics, now I dont even play the game.
Looking forward to se what Trion does to AA when it releases here in the states.
I found FFXIV (after Yoshida took over) to have great developer contact with the English speaking community. But unlike many Korean games the FF online games are not seperate versions of the game for the Japanese and the world communities.
I can understand the art complaints if you don't like an art style like I don't particularly like the art style of guild wars, world of warcraft, aion, or Lord of the Rings Online it is hard to get over that.
But the complaints of grinding, lack of content, etc. as being a norm in asian developed MMO's I think is taking liberties with stereotyping. How anyone can look at a game like FFXI and say it lacks content just has no credibility in speaking on the subject of MMO's.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
I'm comfortable with most aspects of Asian MMOs. I haven't played tons, but other than click to move and gender locked classes in some games, most I've played are to my liking.
I'd much rather play a slow leveling grindy game than one with forced cut-scene storyline and quest lines that I can't escape.
Arent the FF games made in Japan?
Maybe that's one of the reasons they don't do too well here - we've got one view of How Things Should Be in an MMO and anything that violates that is summarily rejected.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
my exact sentiments
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I played Lineage 2.
I liked:
- manga style character design of some race and class combinations (others looked awful, though)
- very complex class system; each race gets their own variant of classes
- complex crafting (however, only dwarves could craft, that sucked)
- overenchanting (make stuff better with the chance of breaking them, much better mechanisms than soulbound etc)
- castle sieges (mass pvp events that decided about ressources)
Today however L2 is basically an Aion clone. Only 8 classes left instead of the original variance. Meh.
Yes? When's the last time you saw a new title, any title, "did well here"? Quick review of the last 15 years this site's been open?
Not just azn games, not by a long shot.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yeah I mean I pointed out that I thought. Japan is in Asia though, are people only having problems with Chinese and Korean made MMO's?
What is the implication here that "Asians" just have different tastes than people in the West?
Have you ever had Grits? They are disgusting, should we not enjoy any form of entertainment that derives from Grit eating lands? Your whole post just reaks of racism, and maybe that wasn't your intention but the implication is just that. Korean people and Chinese people, and Japanese people all have varying tastes in video games etc. Any gamer older than 15-16 years old should have fond memories of playing Nintendo/Sega/Sony classics which were developed in Asian countries so your whole "Asians just have incompatable palletes for all things when compared to Western audiences" is more than ridiculous, it is taking stereotyping based on a few free to play MMO's you played (a genre of MMO of which there is plenty of trash in the West too) and applying it to all people in Asia.
It just boggles my mind, and if you aren't racist I can't fathom why you lump billions of people together and write them off in such a way especially with such a demeaning comparison using rice gruel as your example of how Asian people are "just different".
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Yeah next time you're standing in front of a 50 foot tall demon blocking his hits with your " correctly sized and weighted " sword let me know what you think of how great western games are on math and physics.
according to OP logic, the worst example of Asian bad game is European, now NA, runescape.
full of bugs, cheat users and just not banned bots, it has worst ever support (if we can call it as such) and very poor account security (or I don't know why this game has so many hacks).
plus it also has non realistic graphic (I don't mind btw as it Java based game) and unseen grindfest.
BUT
this game has years of success and still have lot of subs.
May be we should stop being racist and generalize all. May be we should just admit, are good games and bad games, independently where they were made.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
The problem with Asian MMOs in the West is, the ones that they try to the West are not the same ones that Asian themselves play a lot of times.
For example there is no western version of the historical ones like Three Kingdoms and Nobanaga's Ambition because I think they assumed that you guys a) would not understand or have knowledge in the settings, b) would not be interested in the settings and c) it is not going to sell well in the west and you ain't gonna spend money on something you don't understand/can't relate to. Thus they don't bother with translating it and releasing it in the West.
So in a way that makes some of the Asian MMOs that are exclusively for Asian markets a lot better made than the ones that they have plans to release to the West.
In a way it is a similar situation to how Japanese keeps all the good electronics and best spec cars sells in the country and only sell to the west the lower model, because they can't envision you guys spending 100k on a Honda.
I think if the West is looking for good mmos from the East, Russia and Eastern Europe will be the place to look for, instead of Asia - because there is a lot more similiarities to the Western cultures compare to Asia and also Russia and Eastern Europe has a lot weaker domestic markets than Asia and do not hesitate to sell to the west.
PS: Asian here and have worked many years in Asia before so I know the mentality.
Arent the FF games made in Japan?
Yeah I mean I pointed out that I thought. Japan is in Asia though, are people only having problems with Chinese and Korean made MMO's?
What is the implication here that "Asians" just have different tastes than people in the West?
Have you ever had Grits? They are disgusting, should we not enjoy any form of entertainment that derives from Grit eating lands? Your whole post just reaks of racism, and maybe that wasn't your intention but the implication is just that. Korean people and Chinese people, and Japanese people all have varying tastes in video games etc. Any gamer older than 15-16 years old should have fond memories of playing Nintendo/Sega/Sony classics which were developed in Asian countries so your whole "Asians just have incompatable palletes for all things when compared to Western audiences" is more than ridiculous, it is taking stereotyping based on a few free to play MMO's you played (a genre of MMO of which there is plenty of trash in the West too) and applying it to all people in Asia.
It just boggles my mind, and if you aren't racist I can't fathom why you lump billions of people together and write them off in such a way especially with such a demeaning comparison using rice gruel as your example of how Asian people are "just different".
Whatever man, I lived in Asia for several years and speak a couple of the languages and know the people, and YES, tastes are different there as compared to the West. That is especially true in S.Korea and Taiwan as applied to gaming... they LIKE very grindy MMOs there (and Starcraft). Mostly because kids hang out in PC bangs a lot more than kids do in the West. (And as to rice gruel or porridge, it is a common breakfast dish in Skorea, Thailand, China, and Japan, as I have seen it in all of those places. So the comparison is not out of bounds. It is not "racist", whatever that means, it is an actual fact.)some of you yelling about the OP here being racist or generalizing are missing his point i think . Hes trying to be politically correct with it. I know i do not tend to care one bit for asian mmorpgs either but thats because every week there is some garbage POS mmo coming out of some asian country that is basically just made to make money and nothing more. There is some solid asian games out there to , Tera and Aion being great examples but lets be real both of them are now free to play and never held a huge western audience. The artstyle while beautiful in both of those games its still an aquired taste. L2 did do very well over here though and is worth mentioning. But I think if a terrible cash grab mmo didnt come out of asia every week people would have a better opinion of asian mmorpgs.
Hell to be honest I played two different korean grinders that both literally stole the sound sets from world of warcraft and I actually reported them to blizzard sending them the files so they could see for themselves. You cannot tell me that isnt a cash grab and thieft. If less shady sleezy asian companies would stop sending so much garbage and publishers like Aeria and Gpotato stopped picking them up trying to make a buck than a lot of people including myself would praise the great ones that do come out of asia.
Likely true. My issue isn't with game mechanics, just the art style and such really. If that was say a massive person wielding that sword, I'd have no issue with it, or say if she was wearing a exoskeletal frame, I guess I just want "SOME" form of grounding in the basic principles of reality. Otherwise I can't connect to it, and it ruins ALL sense of immersion in the game world. It's one thing to have the character be some sort of higher being posessing godlike strength, it's another completely when the person wielding such objects is portrayed as just an average joe.
PS: I did look for a even more profound picture I saw a year ago of a frail 5 year old girl weilding a semi-truck sized axe. It made me want to punch an artist.
Oh you'll get no argument here, they piss me off as well. The difference is in the ammount that occurs in each type of game. In western games, thats FAR more rare than in asian games, where it is basically the norm. (Seeing normal sized weapons in an asian game, take a momment and try to recall seeing some... it's ok, no rush... Done? Yeah thats my point.)
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.