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  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Mr. Jacobs, I played DAoC from 2001 to 2008. The only thing I would even think to resent you for was the backpeddle you did on the DAoC Origins server, when you first stated that you were surprised by the massive interest in it, and then claimed there wasn't enough interest to keep the idea going forward. 

    You and your team gave me the best MMO memories of my life, some of the best gaming memories period. 

    CU sounds incredibly promising, and I'm so glad you stuck with the real world Arthurian setting, as I find it much more compelling than homebrewed fantasy. 

    If I had an opinion, I'd just say this. 

     

    Please, no instances, and please, consider a little PvE content, for something to do with friends during RvR downtime. It may be that with the design of the game this is not possible. I am speaking from ignorance. I just really loved the oldschool DAoC public dungeon crawls, and would like to see them again. I also found it useful for learning my class before hitting the frontier, and for a bit of story to set me in the world. 

     

    Good luck in the days ahead, and thanks to you and Mythic. 

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Common
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Mr. Jacobs, I played DAoC from 2001 to 2008. The only thing I would even think to resent you for was the backpeddle you did on the DAoC Origins server, when you first stated that you were surprised by the massive interest in it, and then claimed there wasn't enough interest to keep the idea going forward. 

    You and your team gave me the best MMO memories of my life, some of the best gaming memories period. 

    CU sounds incredibly promising, and I'm so glad you stuck with the real world Arthurian setting, as I find it much more compelling than homebrewed fantasy. 

    If I had an opinion, I'd just say this. 

     

    Please, no instances, and please, consider a little PvE content, for something to do with friends during RvR downtime. It may be that with the design of the game this is not possible. I am speaking from ignorance. I just really loved the oldschool DAoC public dungeon crawls, and would like to see them again. I also found it useful for learning my class before hitting the frontier, and for a bit of story to set me in the world. 

     

    Good luck in the days ahead, and thanks to you and Mythic. 

    I wish there will be group / raid encounters (world bosses) in the open world / near keeps etc, where we can PvE+PvP at the same time. Uthgard does something like this and it works great.

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Mr. Jacobs, I played DAoC from 2001 to 2008. The only thing I would even think to resent you for was the backpeddle you did on the DAoC Origins server, when you first stated that you were surprised by the massive interest in it, and then claimed there wasn't enough interest to keep the idea going forward. 

    You and your team gave me the best MMO memories of my life, some of the best gaming memories period. 

    CU sounds incredibly promising, and I'm so glad you stuck with the real world Arthurian setting, as I find it much more compelling than homebrewed fantasy. 

    If I had an opinion, I'd just say this. 

     

    Please, no instances, and please, consider a little PvE content, for something to do with friends during RvR downtime. It may be that with the design of the game this is not possible. I am speaking from ignorance. I just really loved the oldschool DAoC public dungeon crawls, and would like to see them again. I also found it useful for learning my class before hitting the frontier, and for a bit of story to set me in the world. 

     

    Good luck in the days ahead, and thanks to you and Mythic. 

    I wish there will be group / raid encounters (world bosses) in the open world / near keeps etc, where we can PvE+PvP at the same time. Uthgard does something like this and it works great.

    I'm hoping for some real dragons, like we had in DAOC. I'm not expecting DAOC2 since it's a totally different project. Just hoping some of the good things from DAOC spills into this new Camelot.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Snoepie

    lol

     

    mystic asking for a kickstarter..

     

    Pff mark should have kept his own vision of games instead of letting it fcked up by EA

     

    GL mark.. i hope you get some investors for your game.. 

    If you mean MYTHIC, they don't really exist anymore, swallowed up by EA.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • tleartlear Toronto, ONPosts: 142Member

    Guys it is important to remember that their budget will be order of magnitude less then big name current mmos. So no PVE means NO PVE. They will have no time and resources to make it not suck. Let them make a crafting/RvR game, it si something new and ya it will be niche but it is better imo

    But the thing with no PVE is that crafting and economy has to be very good. I am backing it on Kickstarter for sure

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVPosts: 268Member Uncommon
    They made the original daoc for a few million with more than a dozen guys developing it. That had quite a bit of pve. Its not unreal to think they could do something similar. Original daoc's focus was rvr but there was still a world and pve and for, if i remember right, less than 3million USD. Granted that was a decade ago but it is possible.
  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member

    DAOC was a great game. WAR was good in beta and started strong but unfortunately the devs were horrid when they tried to "balance" anything.

    On that note though I am interested in seeing more of CU.

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Chief021
    I'm not sure what to think about this one... the kickstarter program is a bit of a turn off for me as well.  However I love that fact it's going to include "old school" elements as indicated by the new teaser.

    Lots of old school elements actually. Over the next few weeks I'll be posting lots of info (probably too much) about what the game is going to be all about. It might be a bit of information overload but I don't want people backing this project unless they know exactly what the vision is for the game. By the time the Kickstarter is over, nobody will be able to accuse me of not telling them what game we're making. They may think I'm insane, dumb, etc., but hey, what else is new. :) Seriously though, I hope you'll give me and this project a chance to earn your support. If we don't get it, no worries, I truly thank you for at least looking at it.

    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    WAR was a flop and Mark's name was all over that. I would like to hear how this will be different. If he plans on going back to vanilla DAoC I maybe intrested depending on what he has planed for the rest of the game. Takes a lot more to make it today then just one really well polished idea. You need cross over into many areas PvE raids, player housing, deep crafting system, etc. Does not need it all but its going to need more depth then just a RvR system. I really am intrested in answers to 2 questions.

    How is Mark's working on this project going to be any different then WAR?

    What is his over all flavor for CU? (ie. type of crafting, raids, world type etc) Overall vision.

    As per above, lots of info coming your way, starting tomorrow//today actually. :) Just as a heads-up, the housing and crafting systems are intended to be very deep but not as wide. As to the difference between WAR and CU. All I'll say is that it is a different team, different ownership (me), different goals (much, much smaller) and frankly, a different me. Nobody is perfect (well, except for some people who seem to think that admitting a mistake would be fatal) and I happily take the blame for what I did and others did, as I was GM, did with WAR. I killed Imperator because even though it was my baby, it wasn't a great game. Please keep this all in mind over the next couple of months.

    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Originally posted by Marcus-
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    DAOC "reborn" "2.0"

     

    is this what people are looking for?

     

    Will this game do it right? or will be get another warhammer online type game that everyone flocks to for a month then moves on?

     

    I see its going to kickstarter...wich dissapoints me...i want a game like this to have a big budget, as ive been dabbling in the low budget games for years and know what to expect.

    I've been dabbling in big budget games just the same...

     

    Its not much better there either  image

    Heres the thing, most big budget games follow one specific game as their role model.  Focus nearly 100% on the casual players and the leveling up process, and fail 100% at endgame.

    If this game takes another path, i would much rather see it use a state of the art game engine, be somewhat polished and complete...rather than yet another game that did something different but didnt have the money to use a great game engine, and launch a half baked game.

     

    Then again, i guess at this point just about every game does a dumbed down version of DAOC...so i guess it doesnt matter.

    I just want the game to have great combat, a great preforming game engine, and to not be in some perma beta state where the games both lacking in content and in stability/playability due to issues that cant be handled by a 5 man dev team.

     

    Again...with so little info, all i can do is assume based on the kickstart being used.  Who knows.  Just hope theres no EA/SOE/Crappy F2P publisher involved in this one.

    No publisher involvement, crappy or otherwise right now and I'm not seeking publisher involvement. That's one of the reasons I went small with the concept. FYI, combat (especially a fluid combat system) is one of the keys to this game's success. As per above, check out what I and the team say over the next few months. Hopefully you'll like what you see.

    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Originally posted by Crunchy222
    Originally posted by Marcus-
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    DAOC "reborn" "2.0"

     

    is this what people are looking for?

     

    Will this game do it right? or will be get another warhammer online type game that everyone flocks to for a month then moves on?

     

    I see its going to kickstarter...wich dissapoints me...i want a game like this to have a big budget, as ive been dabbling in the low budget games for years and know what to expect.

    I've been dabbling in big budget games just the same...

     

    Its not much better there either  image

    Heres the thing, most big budget games follow one specific game as their role model.  Focus nearly 100% on the casual players and the leveling up process, and fail 100% at endgame.

    If this game takes another path, i would much rather see it use a state of the art game engine, be somewhat polished and complete...rather than yet another game that did something different but didnt have the money to use a great game engine, and launch a half baked game.

     

    Then again, i guess at this point just about every game does a dumbed down version of DAOC...so i guess it doesnt matter.

    I just want the game to have great combat, a great preforming game engine, and to not be in some perma beta state where the games both lacking in content and in stability/playability due to issues that cant be handled by a 5 man dev team.

     

    Again...with so little info, all i can do is assume based on the kickstart being used.  Who knows.  Just hope theres no EA/SOE/Crappy F2P publisher involved in this one.

    Fluid combat is often ignored, like in SWToR for something the developers think is ground breaking like story. This really is the bread and butter of any MMO. Combat, class balance and UI. If they are not great first, why make the rest of the game? Would like to see some Alpha combat videos. 

    Couldn't agree more as to the importance of fluid combat. That's one of the things that Andrew Meggs will be focusing on early in the game's development. If we can't get that right, we should just return the money and go home.

    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Notice how as soon as big money got involved DAoC went to shit? And WAR was shit from the start, due to EA?

    Yeah, Kickstarter is the only way this type of game would get made. Publishers ruin everything, and force games to become clones of WoW. 

     

    Besides, it sounds like this won't just be vanilla DAoC, but something different entirely. 

     

    I'd rather have interesting indie MMOs than play soulless WoW clones ever again. There's a reason that games like Eve and Darkfall grew over time, and WoW clones like LotRO, AoC, Rift, and SWTOR died. 

    LOL, whatever you will say about this game, it won't be souless, that's for sure. :)

    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    This is exactly what I've been waiting for. And DAOC didn't have a big budget. Camelot Unchained won't either, especially considering they are only focused on RvR, they don't have to waste any resources on PvE content.

    Bingo! That's the other big reason I wanted to focus on RvR. Do one thing RvR and do it right. Money that would have been spent on content that players burn through in weeks/month is not what I want to do. Besides, I like the economics of a small team, smaller game where I can experiment with ideas that I've wanted to for years and see what happens more quickly, rather than 5-6 years out.

    Thanks for your interest/questions/etc. More posting to come.

    Mark

     

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    hmm
  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Originally posted by boxsnd
    I'm very excited but I hoped it would go B2P+cash shop instead of sub. What does he mean with "multi-tiered subscription"?

    4.99 a month - Access to 50% of the content and other restrictions on your account like maybe less bank and bag slots

    9.99 a month - Access to all the game and no restrictions to account

    14.99 a month - Access to all the game and added bonuses on account, like 10% exp and cash on all kills. 

    Nope, not at all. Much more creative ideas that I'll be talking about in a few weeks. FYI, I hate the FTP usage of bank slots, bags, etc. I've always been player-focused and while I know the players don't always agree with me or my decisions, I can tell you that the multi-tiered sub model I'm thinking about will be seen by many as "about F-ing time.." I won't guarantee everyone will love it but the fact is it won't cost players more than they are paying now and it won't create multiple tiers of players in the way so many of the FTP games do now. Think of this as a test of my motives/motivations. If you think what I'm proposing is a "money grab" hate on me all you want but on the other hand, you think it is good/great/doesn't suck ass, please feel free to say so. :)

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     
    DAoC had PvE, it had really fun PvE that often tied back into what was going on in RvR. Before EA steped in, there was a great crafting system. None instanced dungeons. Player housing. CU is going to need a lot more then RvR to make it. Sure make it the meat of the game but that a long way from a MMO that will make it. 
     

     

    Mr. Jacobs pretty much said they're making a niche game with Camelot Unchained. Fact is, if PvE is important to you, this is not your kind of game. They are aiming at players like me, hardcore PvP/RvR people who really don't care about PvE... AT ALL.

    This game is not meant for PvEers

    It will be niche, that's for sure.  I wonder what these little myopic niche games, such as Darkfall, are going to do when some great well-rounded sandbox games come out with fun PvP *and* all the other stuff too.  Become even more niche is my guess.

    More power to them if the business model is sustainable, but the niche PvP mmo genre is never going to be very big.

    Agreed. If we can get 30K subs, it is sustainable for a small studio. Back when I had to raise the money for Dark Age of Camelot, I told our investors that 50K subs made it a sustainable business if we were smart. I still believe that.

    Originally posted by redcapp

    God I hope this game is good. 

     

    Edit:  I wonder if these "hardcore pvpers" who don't care about pve "at all" even played DAoC.  lol.  Game would not have been nearly as good if it were strictly RvR. 

     

    I agree, By today's standards, our PvE then was laughable but by the standards of 2001, it was anything but that. If the situation was different, I'd consider adding PvE but for all the reasons I've talked about here and elsewhere, I'd rather focus on RvR/Housing/Crafting and get it to the players.

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member

    So offcial forums or will mmorpg.com be the main outlet for dev/player interaction ?

    I dont mind either but i hope we get serious interaction from someone simillar to Sanya [back in the day] as a sort of liason between the devs/players.

    Devs say over and over how the will have open channels with the community, but this continually is one of the first "promises" to be broken.

    I wish the best of luck with this, and i plan to support it with more than just my wallet.

    Lolipops !

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Hey Mark I know you said no pve but one of the greatest things in pre TOA DAOC was darkness falls and the fighting over it , have you thought about putting in something similiar? I remember many many great fights inside DF in legion raids and clearning out stealthers. It was a great concept and really made the game a lot of fun.
  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kost

    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    How is Mark's working on this project going to be any different then WAR?

    He won't have EA breathing down his neck for starters.

    Anyone who thinks some of Mark's decisions were not heavily influenced by EA is fooling themselves. He graciously accepts responsibility for his part with WAR, I think that in itself is refreshing to see coming from a developer, not many around these days that don't try to pass the buck for failure onto as many others as possible.

    I wish it was all of EA's fault, it would make my life so much easier if I could just say "EA blah-blah-blah" and summon the troops with the rallying cry of the indie developer versus the evil publisher.  But that would be a bunch of disengenuous crap and it would prove I've learned nothing over my career. People, companies,etc. make mistakes and the smart ones try to learn from them. I think I've learned quite a lot over the last 8 years.

    I do truly thank you for the kind words, it means a lot to me. I won't let you down.

    Originally posted by collekt

    Originally posted by Vinterkrig

    They will never recapture what DAOC was because the players aren't the same anymore. 

     

    .. it'll just be another zerg fest of keyboards smashing into mindless gamer's heads, cheering themselves on victories of a laggy 50 v 50 v 50 battle where they spammed TAB to auto target and fired off random spells.

     

     

    I think you have a valid point that it won't recapture what DAoC was to us. However, I don't think it's fair to accuse the game of being "just another zerg fest of laggy 50 v 50 v 50 battles." At the moment, we know next to nothing about how this game will be implemented. They have already stated that it's not a clone of what DAoC used to be, but rather that it's a new game entirely. I think we should wait until more information is available to judge what the game will turn out to be.

    What I will say is that I find the idea of "50 v....." to be the exact opposite of what I want this game to be.

    Originally posted by noblot

    There is no reason that this can't be a big budget title. Kickstart can easily raise millons, and they you don't have to make a tonne of compromises to ensure that you make lots of "profit" to apease the bankers.

    I'm very optomistic, DAoC was the best MMO ever (IMHO), and for all the slagging off, WAR was not a bad game and had alot of good features. Mirror classes, Public quests, RVR lakes and Tiers, and not to mention that you could PvP at level 1 (and not have to get to level 50 via PvE to play RvR).

    Thank you for your support here and hopefully on Kickstarter. I won't compromise on the vision I have for this game. If people like it and want to support it, cool, it goes into production. If not, it doesn't and we make another game. And since our supporters would have to share the vision, well, appeasing them means simply sticking to the vision. Perfection achieved. :)  Truly though, while games do evolve during development, I know that in this case, the core principles of the game will not be subject to change since I'm the guy running the show this time (again) and I'll be putting up some of the money too it kind of gives me a little more authority. :)  Thanks for your interest!

    Originally posted by keitholi

    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     
    DAoC had PvE, it had really fun PvE that often tied back into what was going on in RvR. Before EA steped in, there was a great crafting system. None instanced dungeons. Player housing. CU is going to need a lot more then RvR to make it. Sure make it the meat of the game but that a long way from a MMO that will make it. 
     

     

    Mr. Jacobs pretty much said they're making a niche game with Camelot Unchained. Fact is, if PvE is important to you, this is not your kind of game. They are aiming at players like me, hardcore PvP/RvR people who really don't care about PvE... AT ALL.

    This game is not meant for PvEers

    It will be niche, that's for sure.  I wonder what these little myopic niche games, such as Darkfall, are going to do when some great well-rounded sandbox games come out with fun PvP *and* all the other stuff too.  Become even more niche is my guess.

    More power to them if the business model is sustainable, but the niche PvP mmo genre is never going to be very big.

    The way I see it, with Jacobs at the helm, he could shoot for taking the whole Darkfail / MO / DAoC and myriad other PvP centric titles audience. There are plenty of us out there to fill the niche, who are just craving something from a Dev who wont be downright dishonest with the playerbase. Even a mediocre attempt from Mark would probably beat anything out by the rest of them, and DAoC only due to age ;)  I'm not saying he's the next mesiah, but I consider him a stand up guy. Lately I just feel so disappointed in not only the games, but the companies behind them who seem more and more willing to mislead and mistreat the playerbase. I don't want to give my money to people like that.

    Thanks so much for all the kind words. I'm no messiah, not perfect and I'm sure I'm piss someobody off (I probably already have by just posting here) but I won't mislead the community. Too often I found myself in the position of checking to see if we could do "X", saying "X" was going to happen and then later be told that "We can't do X, we need to do Y now or...." and I had to deliver the bad news. Never f-ing again, ever. Now, I made some bad calls (talking about crafting before it was done, trying to be too creative with WAR's initial vision, not taking a long vacation sabattical when my mom died in 2007) but I never intentionally misled the players and I never will but please understand, I will make mistakes because I want to take some chances with this game and not just try to clone DAoC/WoW/etc. Again, thanks for the kind words and thoughts.

    Originally posted by PvP4Life

    Needless to say when this goes live on kickstarter next month It will be the first that I will support. 

    Thanks so much, that means a lot.

    Originally posted by banzai014
    I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.

    I can promise that the graphics will not be what you'll see in the best FPS games nor even some MMORPGs, Andrew is focusing on frame-rate for larger scale battles rather than the pretty. This game will only work if it is an open and persistent world game where we can gets lots and lots of people beating the heck out of each other without it turning into a slideshow (again). :) 

     

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Amisch
    exxxxciting!

    Originally posted by synn

     


    Originally posted by banzai014 I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.

     Mark Jacobs: I’ll go into more detail about that when we get closer to the launch. It is safe to say though that I’ll be sticking my neck on the line (again) financially and I won’t be seeking the full funding amount from Kickstarter. A successful Kickstarter campaign will prove to me and the other investors that putting in the money it will take to launch CU is a worthwhile investment. I’ve been very upfront that this Kickstarter campaign could face-plant for any number of reasons but it’s better to know that now and only lose a small amount time/money from the studio instead of spending millions of dollars on a game that people don’t want

     

    ...seems like more then just money from a successful kickstarter program will go into the games development.

    Yep. Some of mine as well. I can't ask people to put some of their money in if I'm not willing to do the same. Well, I could actually but I won't, that would be wrong. I've never been risk-adverse and I'm not starting now.

    Originally posted by Marcus-

    Originally posted by banzai014
    I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.

    In an RvR type game, odds are the graphics will be of lower quality, add to that its a smaller budget  type MMO, i would have my doubts as well.

     

    Thats ok, i personally don't play for graphics.  image

    Good. Me too. I know that Andrew and the team can pull off the things we need this game to do in order for it to be successful. It's is better to play good than to look good! :)

    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Based on the interviews, I think this game has the potential to basically be a Fantasy version of EVE. I'm personally very excited for this project.

    Thanks for that. EVE is a great game by a great company. If we could be as successful with CU as EO has been, I'd be a happy man. Start small, build over time. I like how that sounds.

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • VariansVarians copenhagenPosts: 10Member

    What's this, what's this. Camelot Unchained.

    What a weird coinsidence. I recently stopped gw2, and started daoc-uthgad-freeshard. And I was completely surprised how much I loved playing that old version of daoc. All of the great things, and some of the annoying aswell. But the great things outweighed the annoying ones by tonnes.

    I started on Uthgard, while waiting for TESO. But with CU in the furture, I'm very biased.

    pick

    a) matt firor

    b) mark jacobs

    Please Mark, do me a favor and get Matt on your team, and the pick is easy:-)

    Oh and thank you so much for making daoc & WAR, I enjoyed both:-)

     

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Masita

    Originally posted by MarkJacobs If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :)

     

    I like your ideas and I'm glad to hear you will stick to it. I'm almost sure it will turn out great (at least for the group of players you want to adress). Wish you all the best and hope you get the support you need to get this project started :)

    (sorry for my bad english... just wanted to say: can't wait to read more about it and finally play it ;) )

    Thanks so much. I will stick to the FPs, that's the key to the Kickstarter.

    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Mr. Jacobs, I played DAoC from 2001 to 2008. The only thing I would even think to resent you for was the backpeddle you did on the DAoC Origins server, when you first stated that you were surprised by the massive interest in it, and then claimed there wasn't enough interest to keep the idea going forward. 

    You and your team gave me the best MMO memories of my life, some of the best gaming memories period. 

    CU sounds incredibly promising, and I'm so glad you stuck with the real world Arthurian setting, as I find it much more compelling than homebrewed fantasy. 

    If I had an opinion, I'd just say this. 

     

    Please, no instances, and please, consider a little PvE content, for something to do with friends during RvR downtime. It may be that with the design of the game this is not possible. I am speaking from ignorance. I just really loved the oldschool DAoC public dungeon crawls, and would like to see them again. I also found it useful for learning my class before hitting the frontier, and for a bit of story to set me in the world. 

     

    Good luck in the days ahead, and thanks to you and Mythic. 

    You're welcome. As to Mythic, I'm sure anyone who reads these forums from Mythic will always, like me, appreciate the shout out, even if they have moved on. As to instances, extremely limited for special times/events.  It will not, under any circumstances, be like WAR in that regard.

    Originally posted by Tayah

    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Mr. Jacobs, I played DAoC from 2001 to 2008. The only thing I would even think to resent you for was the backpeddle you did on the DAoC Origins server, when you first stated that you were surprised by the massive interest in it, and then claimed there wasn't enough interest to keep the idea going forward. 

    You and your team gave me the best MMO memories of my life, some of the best gaming memories period. 

    CU sounds incredibly promising, and I'm so glad you stuck with the real world Arthurian setting, as I find it much more compelling than homebrewed fantasy. 

    If I had an opinion, I'd just say this. 

     

    Please, no instances, and please, consider a little PvE content, for something to do with friends during RvR downtime. It may be that with the design of the game this is not possible. I am speaking from ignorance. I just really loved the oldschool DAoC public dungeon crawls, and would like to see them again. I also found it useful for learning my class before hitting the frontier, and for a bit of story to set me in the world. 

     

    Good luck in the days ahead, and thanks to you and Mythic. 

    I wish there will be group / raid encounters (world bosses) in the open world / near keeps etc, where we can PvE+PvP at the same time. Uthgard does something like this and it works great.

    I'm hoping for some real dragons, like we had in DAOC. I'm not expecting DAOC2 since it's a totally different project. Just hoping some of the good things from DAOC spills into this new Camelot.

    Oh, there will be dragons. MUAHAHAAHA. Sorry, it's late here, that just slipped out. :)

    Originally posted by tlear

    Guys it is important to remember that their budget will be order of magnitude less then big name current mmos. So no PVE means NO PVE. They will have no time and resources to make it not suck. Let them make a crafting/RvR game, it si something new and ya it will be niche but it is better imo

    But the thing with no PVE is that crafting and economy has to be very good. I am backing it on Kickstarter for sure

    Crafting and housing must be great since they are two of the systems that are not only tied into RvR but also will serve as ways for players to let off steam and/or to widen the core playerbase. We need them to be fun systems for that to happen.

     

    Originally posted by Raagnarz
    They made the original daoc for a few million with more than a dozen guys developing it. That had quite a bit of pve. Its not unreal to think they could do something similar. Original daoc's focus was rvr but there was still a world and pve and for, if i remember right, less than 3million USD. Granted that was a decade ago but it is possible.

    2.5M USD to create and deploy the game (though we did burn some credit cards and I had my name on leases as well).

    Originally posted by Yizle

    DAOC was a great game. WAR was good in beta and started strong but unfortunately the devs were horrid when they tried to "balance" anything.

    On that note though I am interested in seeing more of CU.

    Thank you, you will soon, in terms of design principles, early concept art, etc.

     

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member

    "'Im no messiah, not perfect and I'm sure I'm piss someobody off (I probably already have by just posting here) but I won't mislead the community."

     

    Well thank you for that, Mark, if I may call you Mark.

    I won't pretend for a second that I wasn't one of the people dissapointed by later DOAC and Warhammer Online, but I also won't pretend that there weren't some very nice memories from both games either. I appriciate your candor and your courage to come post here, considering doing so could be alikend with a pretty boy doing the "full monty" unsupervised in a maximum securty men's prison. So frankly just the fact you have the balls to come and talk to us directly puts you miles ahead of other game makers in my book.

    So while I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the idea of Camelot Online, at least I know that unlike many other games I can voice my opinions directly to the man in charge. So by all means please keep talking. And if I like what I hear not only will you garner my spiritual support, but my financial support as well.

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVPosts: 268Member Uncommon

    Mark I just have to say thank you for coming to the forums here and discussing as much as you currently can. I'm sure you're still organizing what and how to release the details of the game giving the impending kickstarter. You're coming across humble and real here even taking it on the chin for some things. Thats going to win you a lot of support for being you know, human and all. I was a huge fan of DAOC though WAR not so much. People have successes and mistakes, I expect no one to be perfect as long as they learn from the mistakes not repeating them.

     

    Will you be active here on the forums going forward? If you want to create a small tight knit crew, and if you're not going to have forums on your own site, I think it would be quite beneficial.

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Voiidiin

    So offcial forums or will mmorpg.com be the main outlet for dev/player interaction ?

    I dont mind either but i hope we get serious interaction from someone simillar to Sanya [back in the day] as a sort of liason between the devs/players.

    Devs say over and over how the will have open channels with the community, but this continually is one of the first "promises" to be broken.

    I wish the best of luck with this, and i plan to support it with more than just my wallet.

    If the Kickstarter is successful we will have:

    1) Backers Forums - Open only to backers where they can interact with the developers. Feed them, pet them and if they throw enough peanuts, we'll learn some tricks! :) These will be, as the name implies, open to the backers only and subject, of course, to NDA. I've already told the team that I expect all of them to be there, right along with me, talking and getting feedback especially once testing begins.

    2) Offical forums at launch - Yep.

    I plan on being my usual hyperactive self on forums (gee, like tonight where it's 2:40 and I've been posting here, Massively, Keen & Graev and YouTube) since I saw the Wizards beat the Knicks) and doing some of the things I did in the past but I also have some new ideas and some old ones as well.

    3) As to place like MMORPG, my usual rules apply. As long as stuff stays nive and civil, I'll happly post and continue the feedback loop with the community.  In terms of the site itself, well, MMORPG has been kind enough to care what I'm doing and I'm happy to reciprocate. I've always liked talking in places like this I just don't want to have to deal with hate/personal attacks/lies/etc. I won't hate on other developers, other games, posters (almost never other than my infamous "Have a cookie" line)  and I simply ask the same in return. I want to hear feedback on my/our ideas, even if it's negative, I just don't want to have to fight a war over an idea or put into the position of having to answer the same question (or worse, attack) again and again.

    Thanks so much for your offer and support (and more), I really appreciate it.

    Originally posted by cronius77
    Hey Mark I know you said no pve but one of the greatest things in pre TOA DAOC was darkness falls and the fighting over it , have you thought about putting in something similiar? I remember many many great fights inside DF in legion raids and clearning out stealthers. It was a great concept and really made the game a lot of fun.

    I agree. DF rocked.

    Originally posted by Varians

    What's this, what's this. Camelot Unchained.

    What a weird coinsidence. I recently stopped gw2, and started daoc-uthgad-freeshard. And I was completely surprised how much I loved playing that old version of daoc. All of the great things, and some of the annoying aswell. But the great things outweighed the annoying ones by tonnes.

    I started on Uthgard, while waiting for TESO. But with CU in the furture, I'm very biased.

    pick

    a) matt firor

    b) mark jacobs

    Please Mark, do me a favor and get Matt on your team, and the pick is easy:-)

    Oh and thank you so much for making daoc & WAR, I enjoyed both:-)

     

    Matt Firor was a key/crucial member of the team that created Dark Age of Camelot and all our games before that. That game was testament to the power of what a true team could do. Nobody, including me, can take credit for all of that great game and as I have many times, as a team, were much stronger than we were as individuals. It's like you added up 3 + 3 + 3 and got 18 instead of 9. That's what we were able to do back then all of us working toward a single goal, creating a great game and we did. It's why, even beyond my usual "don't criticize other developers" why I want to see TESO be everything it should be, it's because guys like Matt are there working on it.

    As to Dark Age of Camelot and WAR, thank you so much, I do wish WAR had been everything I (and others) wanted it to be but I am glad you enjoyed it.

    Thanks to all for your questions/feedback/etc. I appreciate it all.

    Good night!

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Okay, these came in right before I wanted to head out so time for two more questions.

    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR

    "'Im no messiah, not perfect and I'm sure I'm piss someobody off (I probably already have by just posting here) but I won't mislead the community."

     

    Well thank you for that, Mark, if I may call you Mark.

    I won't pretend for a second that I wasn't one of the people dissapointed by later DOAC and Warhammer Online, but I also won't pretend that there weren't some very nice memories from both games either. I appriciate your candor and your courage to come post here, considering doing so could be alikend with a pretty boy doing the "full monty" unsupervised in a maximum securty men's prison. So frankly just the fact you have the balls to come and talk to us directly puts you miles ahead of other game makers in my book.

    So while I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the idea of Camelot Online, at least I know that unlike many other games I can voice my opinions directly to the man in charge. So by all means please keep talking. And if I like what I hear not only will you garner my spiritual support, but my financial support as well.

    Please call me Mark, it's a lot better than "ASKJAKSJAKS Jacobs AS*AS*A*!" :)

    Thanks for what you said, whether about DAOC or WAR and myyself as well. I do hope you like what you hear but if not, maybe when the game launches. I do thank you for considering backing the game though.

    Originally posted by Raagnarz

    Mark I just have to say thank you for coming to the forums here and discussing as much as you currently can. I'm sure you're still organizing what and how to release the details of the game giving the impending kickstarter. You're coming across humble and real here even taking it on the chin for some things. Thats going to win you a lot of support for being you know, human and all. I was a huge fan of DAOC though WAR not so much. People people have successes and mistakes, I expect no one to be perfect as long as they learn from the mistakes not repeating them.

     

    Will you be active here on the forums going forward? If you want to create a small tight knit crew, and if you're not going to have forums on your own site, I think it would be quite beneficial.

    You're more than welcome. As per above, I hope to be. As to being perfect, making mistakes, goes with the territory in game developer land. I'm sure we'll make some with CU but if so, we'll correct them. That's the nice thing about being an independent developer again, I can say things like that and then back them up.

    More details on our website starting tomorrow. During the week I'll be posting blogs there (as will a few of the team) and following up here and on other sites as well as time permits. We're currently deep in our next version of our current game so my time is a little more limited than it has been but hey, who needs sleep right?

    Thanks for the kind words, now it really is time to get to sleep. Lots to get done tomorow.

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • tehwewetehwewe Musile di PiavePosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    WAR was a flop and Mark's name was all over that. I would like to hear how this will be different. If he plans on going back to vanilla DAoC I maybe intrested depending on what he has planed for the rest of the game. Takes a lot more to make it today then just one really well polished idea. You need cross over into many areas PvE raids, player housing, deep crafting system, etc. Does not need it all but its going to need more depth then just a RvR system. I really am intrested in answers to 2 questions.

    How is Mark's working on this project going to be any different then WAR?

    What is his over all flavor for CU? (ie. type of crafting, raids, world type etc) Overall vision.

    I Agree 100%

    Mr. M.J. sink WAR .. Big tolk bad work. If u search any War "pre Beta" interviews you will understand what I mean. Imo!

     

     

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    A lot of these old school dev's remind me of the classic 30 year old who still goes to frat parties because he doesn't want to let go of his youth.  People just put up with the creepy old guy only because he brings booze or drugs.

     

    With these dev's it's like they're all trying relive their past glories, when what the industry really needs is innovation.  DAoC was great... ten years ago.  If all you want to do is rebuild stuff using the same basic blueprints, then you're really not much of a designer or developr.  You're just a construction worker.

    You make me like charity

  • engellenengellen liberty, IAPosts: 83Member
    so wierd that mark jacobs is posting on these forums, when i started coming on these forums in highschool to kill time reading and posting about DAOC during study hall.

    played a million mmo's

  • tehwewetehwewe Musile di PiavePosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    A lot of these old school dev's remind me of the classic 30 year old who still goes to frat parties because he doesn't want to let go of his youth.  People just put up with the creepy old guy only because he brings booze or drugs.

     

    With these dev's it's like they're all trying relive their past glories, when what the industry really needs is innovation.  DAoC was great... ten years ago.  If all you want to do is rebuild stuff using the same basic blueprints, then you're really not much of a designer or developr.  You're just a construction worker.

     

     

    True ^_^ ... i'm in too (as a player daoc 2001-2007)

    Daoc Masterpice is the game mechanics (PVP), that guarantees you a unique PlayStyle.

  • VariansVarians copenhagenPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    A lot of these old school dev's remind me of the classic 30 year old who still goes to frat parties because he doesn't want to let go of his youth.  People just put up with the creepy old guy only because he brings booze or drugs.

     

    With these dev's it's like they're all trying relive their past glories, when what the industry really needs is innovation.  DAoC was great... ten years ago.  If all you want to do is rebuild stuff using the same basic blueprints, then you're really not much of a designer or developr.  You're just a construction worker.

    I disagree that on the construction worker thing. A developer is what the title implies. He takes a thing that works and develops it further. He is not neccesarily an inventor. Its like saying "OMG, so you are still gonna take an airplane from the US to EU, cmon be more innovative"

    I honestly don't think that developers should use their time re-inventing the weel. But I do think they should optimize the weels and the engine of that car. So using same basic blueprints in my world is not a bad thing. Improving on them, that is the key.

    Also as Mark stated this will not be a sequal to DAoC, and thereby not a Copy-paste.

     

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