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Poll: Which payment model is ideal for ESO?

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Comments

  • FindarielFindariel SomewherePosts: 216Member
    Originally posted by leroysg

    for example EverQuest back in 1999-2004 days

    Yes. Well, if we get another moronic game with no endgame and a cash shop where you can buy gems or plex to buy gold from other players, I'm out.

    I've lost faith in every B2P + cash shop game.

  • EbonheartEbonheart Austin, TXPosts: 138Member

    While the WoW community eventually got invaded on account of popularity and subsequently turned on it's head, it's a far stretch better than most F2P game communities out there. Let's not forget about the others, EVE is P2P and the community is generally mature... generally. LoTRO and Rift were P2P for a good while as well, and they had/have two of the best MMO communities out there.

    Everquest I/II, DAoC, SWG, PS1, CoX, and Vanguard all had P2P structures and are also good community examples. Now that I think about it, almost all of the games with P2P payment options are those I would regard as having the better community. I think the decision is straightforward on this one.

  • poken1151poken1151 Brooklyn, NYPosts: 9Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    P2P Subscription. It's the best way to avoid 75% of MMO asshats.

    Have you played wow?

    Yea, At first I was thinking closer to 50%, but my optimism got the best of me. Just can't stand the attitude of most F2P game jumpers.

    Would love this methodology explained a bit better. What are "asshats" in your mind that you're avoiding? What do they do that makes them so?

     

    I'd opt for the B2P with a cashshop. Particularly if it's a skill combat game (here I mean skill with controlls and not point-click-spam-gear, which many considor "skill").

  • slicknslim88slicknslim88 Norfolk, VAPosts: 394Member
    GW2 proved that you could do a highly successful, triple A MMO game without a subscription model.  Game after game is converting from P2P to F2P just because the model is failing them.  If TESO knows what's good for them, they would build their game around a B2P model because it's much easier and profittable to develop the game to be B2P instead of several months after launch converting to F2P from a P2P model which is what is going to happen because WoW is still hungry, despite the plethora of carcasses that are rotting outside of it's cave.
  • CrynnCrynn HerentalsPosts: 66Member Uncommon
    I don't mind paying for a sub if i know i'll be playing that game for a very long time

    image
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by slicknslim88
    GW2 proved that you could do a highly successful, triple A MMO game without a subscription model.  Game after game is converting from P2P to F2P just because the model is failing them.  If TESO knows what's good for them, they would build their game around a B2P model because it's much easier and profittable to develop the game to be B2P instead of several months after launch converting to F2P from a P2P model which is what is going to happen because WoW is still hungry, despite the plethora of carcasses that are rotting outside of it's cave.

    Or they build the infrastructure for a f2p cash shop, launch with a sub then if the subs work they can use the cash shop for special items like mounts and have the shop there in case their sub model doesnt work.

    Why go B2P from the start when you can make more money from a sub the first few months then benafit from an influx of new players like every other game that has converted to f2p?

  • ikarrianikarrian SPosts: 122Member

    Best about Subscription is that it keeps the "bad crowd" out of the game.

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Mt Laurel, NJPosts: 1,089Member

    Subscription based.

    Subs don't keep all the asshats out, but it helps.  I noticed a sharp decline in the quality of the community when LOTRO and SWTOR  went freemium.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Remyi
    Originally posted by Tayah
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    For all those who want another P2P marvel let me remind you of the last one we had, "May the force be with you". Yeah we saw how well that went didn't we, and please please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting it's not due to the payment model.

    Let me remind you also that over a million people bought the game, fully knowing it came with a subscription fee. The problem wasn't the sub fee, it was that the game wasn't good enough for an mmorpg to warrant a sub fee. It was a B2P game from the start, only Bioware were too arrogant to realize that til it was too late. People will pay a sub fee if they enjoy playing an mmo and want to conitinue to play it.

     

    Hell, my rich friend bought my copy, and was going to pay my monthly subscription, in order to get me to play it with him. I didn't even think that game was worthy of HIS $15 per month.

    That isnt the sub fee's fault tho, its the quality of the game

    Exactly. The game wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription fee.

    Also, rich friend? Seriously? Buying a $60 game and paying a sub fee is considered rich? If that's the case for you, I think you should avoid games until they go into the bargain bin or something. You are the perfect candidate for Buy to Play or Free to Play games, just avoid anything with a subscription, it's not what you're looking for, since you can't afford it.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ikarrian

    Best about Subscription is that it keeps the "bad crowd" out of the game.

    You didn't play WoW/SWTOR/TERA, did you?

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by ikarrian

    Best about Subscription is that it keeps the "bad crowd" out of the game.

    You didn't play WoW/SWTOR/TERA, did you?

    Lol...same thought occured to me.

    Here's a radical new idea... how about a $5/month sub...why are they all $15? If Blizzard was only taking in $50,000,000 a month instead of $150,000,000 would the world economy collapse? Just curious...

    PS...looking at your picture... was that you kissing Bar Rafaeli in the superbowl add?

  • RemyiRemyi Red Wing, MNPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by Tayah
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Remyi
    Originally posted by Tayah
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    For all those who want another P2P marvel let me remind you of the last one we had, "May the force be with you". Yeah we saw how well that went didn't we, and please please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting it's not due to the payment model.

    Let me remind you also that over a million people bought the game, fully knowing it came with a subscription fee. The problem wasn't the sub fee, it was that the game wasn't good enough for an mmorpg to warrant a sub fee. It was a B2P game from the start, only Bioware were too arrogant to realize that til it was too late. People will pay a sub fee if they enjoy playing an mmo and want to conitinue to play it.

     

    Hell, my rich friend bought my copy, and was going to pay my monthly subscription, in order to get me to play it with him. I didn't even think that game was worthy of HIS $15 per month.

    That isnt the sub fee's fault tho, its the quality of the game

    Exactly. The game wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription fee.

    Also, rich friend? Seriously? Buying a $60 game and paying a sub fee is considered rich? If that's the case for you, I think you should avoid games until they go into the bargain bin or something. You are the perfect candidate for Buy to Play or Free to Play games, just avoid anything with a subscription, it's not what you're looking for, since you can't afford it.

     

    I never said that a $60 game and sub fee is considered rich. I said my friend is rich. A millionaire to be exact. And I told him I was done playing it two weeks into the free month, that I wouldn't play it even with his $15 a month. He ended up going back to WoW when ToR announced F2P, and convinced me to go play with him. I told him WoW wasn't enjoyable enough to pay for it again. He paid for my Pandaria, 8 months of game time, and 3 server/faction changes.

    World of Warcraft had its fair share of problems at release too. That's the problem with subscription based games. They release with a lot of problems, and unstable servers. People get tired of it, quickly, and go running back to a stable game. ESO will have a lot of problems at release too. Will people stick around, paying for a bug filled game? Or will most of them jump ship like with ToR?

  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    I hope for a freemium model, straight sub models are extinct and no longer work (look at any AAA mmo released in last 3-5 years). I will pay a sub, and I hope they have a f2p version that is greatly restricted like TOR
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    B2P with a no pay to win cash shop. No MMO needs more and its healthy for the game. People feel free to come back when new content comes out. Sub games tend to die or dwindle when people try other MMOs. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon

    lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow

    You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...

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  • keitholikeitholi biddeford, MEPosts: 138Member

    Monthly sub fee. While I don't mind the F2P with cash shop models that everyone seems to be going these days, it gets really old having the freeloaders sit there and talk down on people who actually pay for stuff, which is what makes the servers available to even play. These scum-of-the-earth consider it anathema to pay the developers one red cent, ignorant of the fact that SOMEONE has to pay SOMETHING, otherwise the servers will be taken down.. I mean.. Duh.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow

    You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...

    It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games, not to mention you have to pay for expansions, and even cash shop item.

    That being said, just because people say they will pay sub fee, dont' mean they will play that long.  I think that's the main problem.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow

    You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...

    It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games, 

    Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.

    image
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow

    You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...

    It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games, 

    Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.

    I'm not arguing.  I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away. 

    I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money.  If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine.  But that is a big "if".

    Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long.  That is the main problem. 

    I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good.  If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow

    You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...

    It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games, 

    Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.

    I'm not arguing.  I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away. 

    I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money.  If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine.  But that is a big "if".

    Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long.  That is the main problem. 

    I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good.  If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.

    Yes you're right about the "p2p dont necessarily make more money"... although remember that most P2P also have cash shop (the most blatant example being Word of Warcraft)... I dont know, maybe its just me. Maybe I jut had bad luck with B2P and F2P games. Of course you'll prolly disagree with me if I mention my disapointment with GW2 lol... and with F2P I've never seen a stable game with a stable playerbase and a stabe economy - people usually use those as diapers or quick fixes for something they're waiting on.

    Sure Path of Exile may be the exception on the F2P theory but only because player interaction is not really required.

    image
  • safire312safire312 Kosice, ALPosts: 25Member
    P2P... These who want B2P, go and try GW2, try to play this game week with 80lvl... impossible, boring like hell, still 5 months after release.... if u cant pay 10euro/month for game that you enjoy, why you wanna play mmo ? go play mmo without endgame like GW2 is... B2P system isnt good for future updates in mmo....
  • RemyiRemyi Red Wing, MNPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by safire312
    P2P... These who want B2P, go and try GW2, try to play this game week with 80lvl... impossible, boring like hell, still 5 months after release.... if u cant pay 10euro/month for game that you enjoy, why you wanna play mmo ? go play mmo without endgame like GW2 is... B2P system isnt good for future updates in mmo....

    GW2 is fine, if you love PvP, in my opinion. I'm just more of a PvE type of person, and the game isn't exactly filled with that. Still, I don't feel required to play it almost everyday, like I do with a subscription game. I don't want to feel obligated to play all the time, and I do when I'm paying a monthly fee. If it does end up being a subcription based model, I won't consider buying it until some good reviews are posted.

    I love Elder Scrolls, and I know Bethesda isn't developing it, but these games are well known for their game breaking bugs. I also love Star Wars, and I really expected more from Bioware. Look at how awful the game was, with tons of bugs, and really poor performance. If ESO releases with similar problems, people will run back to a game that works.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    lol gamers are getting so cheap... wow

    You guys realy dont have 50 cents a day? seriously? Please... sell your pc for food then...

    It does get expensive if you are playing multiple games, 

    Hmmm... Thats your problem. Zenimax doesnt really have to give a damn if you pay for more games or not... its your decision lol... that argument is void.

    I'm not arguing.  I mean there is cheap people and they having a sub fee do drive them away. 

    I think the problem is "judging from recent history", p2p don't necessary make more money.  If TESO is that good, and people willing to pay for several years, they could be fine.  But that is a big "if".

    Just because you going to contribute and pay a sub fee, dont' mean you'll pay a sub fee for very long.  That is the main problem. 

    I'm fine with a sub fee, if TESO is that good.  If it's not it'll be like one of the dozen of games I buy box, pay for a few month sub fee and never return again.

    Yes you're right about the "p2p dont necessarily make more money"... although remember that most P2P also have cash shop (the most blatant example being Word of Warcraft)... I dont know, maybe its just me. Maybe I jut had bad luck with B2P and F2P games. Of course you'll prolly disagree with me if I mention my disapointment with GW2 lol... and with F2P I've never seen a stable game with a stable playerbase and a stabe economy - people usually use those as diapers or quick fixes for something they're waiting on.

    Sure Path of Exile may be the exception on the F2P theory but only because player interaction is not really required.

    Ya but except for wow and eve, there really isn't that many p2p games with stable player base.  So what you said is mute too. 

    THe reason many p2p turned f2p is "because it don't have stable playerbase".

    I think  people's expectation are high for TESO.  And if TESO manage to pull it off and be successfull for "years to come".  Sub base can be a good idea.

    But I think people's expecation should be reasonable.  I for one is actually having fun in GW2.  I think GW2 is doing very well. 

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

    I voted B2P. I honestly don't think any MMO developer can keep up with the demanding schedule of creating 15$ worth of content a month that I want out of a sub. At this point with all the other great options out there a P2P game has to really impress me by giving me my money's worth in order to get me in it. 

    I have a feeling it will be sub based though and it will ultimately travel down the same path as similar games. Please note this has NOTHING to do with the quality of the game and I can tell you right now I am anxious to play it. I just have a feeling if it does go P2P it will end up in the same boat games like SWTOR,Warhammer,AoC,Aion,Tera,ect are in. This is not going to be a game that is built on a solid, but basic level, like Rift. This is a game where there is a massive investment going into it. The trailer they released alone is probably a 30-50 million dollar trailer. If they are investing this much into it before launch it is inevitable that it will eventually end up F2P after losing it's initial base of players. That base of players that leaves is ALWAYS there. No one can tell me it's not until something proves me otherwise. Not to mention the incredibly high expectations for a franchise like ESO. 

    That said, I think B2P works because you always have the option of jumping back in whenever you want. The sub doesn't matter so much and it is pretty easy to get people to pay some additional money for cosmetic items as well as convienence features. 

    If you think this game is going to be F2P off the bat though you are out of your mind. 

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Remyi
    Originally posted by safire312
    P2P... These who want B2P, go and try GW2, try to play this game week with 80lvl... impossible, boring like hell, still 5 months after release.... if u cant pay 10euro/month for game that you enjoy, why you wanna play mmo ? go play mmo without endgame like GW2 is... B2P system isnt good for future updates in mmo....

    GW2 is fine, if you love PvP, in my opinion. I'm just more of a PvE type of person, and the game isn't exactly filled with that. Still, I don't feel required to play it almost everyday, like I do with a subscription game. I don't want to feel obligated to play all the time, and I do when I'm paying a monthly fee. If it does end up being a subcription based model, I won't consider buying it until some good reviews are posted.

    I love Elder Scrolls, and I know Bethesda isn't developing it, but these games are well known for their game breaking bugs. I also love Star Wars, and I really expected more from Bioware. Look at how awful the game was, with tons of bugs, and really poor performance. If ESO releases with similar problems, people will run back to a game that works.

    You might be mistaken. GW2 is mainly a PvE game. If you look around on GW2 forums very few people talk about WvW/sPvP, it's mostly about the dungeons, exploration and events. Also, GW2's PvP is made for PvEers. I don't know any PvPer who actually liked it. 

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

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