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Originally posted by Schoeneck93 If she can't put raiding first... like before her children? I'm currently sharing this post with friends, as well as a good laugh. Fuckin' hysterical. I can't even believe you're serious. "Oh hey, if real life gets in the way of your raid time, we're not for you." So you're actually encouraging that people put games before their real life? Like REALLY? I understand if gaming is you're job or career or whatever but come on, otherwise you guys need to be a bit more accomadating, People do have things to do that are far more important than playing a game with you. EDIT: And you want to know why COMPANIES can do this, and NOT you? I'll tell you right here right now. COMPANIES, are paying money. YOU, are not. You are paying with blatent generalization and bitter treatment towards those who can't always be online. And on a side-note, to me, it seems like YOU guys are the ones creating the drama by telling them they need to put gaming before their children. When moms start to create drama, just ignore it. Don't dignify it with a response. I see this all the time, people complaining about the drama, which is drama in its self. Do you understand now young padawan? EDIT: While they may not fit into the guilds time schedule, maybe there are people in the guild that they enjoy playing with? And that's the only reason they are on. What's the big deal? Like truly, tell me, what is the huge deal, if you can give me a GOOD reason, then I'll agree. But there isn't one. The only reasons are "Then we have people in our guild who aren't doing what we're doing." Or because you've got some sort of OCD so strong that you need to have everyone doing what you're doing to stay organized in your mind. The fact that she may have friends and or people she enjoys hanging out with/playing with/talking to in the guild doesn't occur to you? Why does she have to be a hardcore raider? And Navy SEALs and a Guild are not the same things. Not even close. It's silly to say you're kicking them because of drama, when really that in its self is dramatic. If you're going to kick someone, kick someone for being an asshole or for swearing or something legitimate. Not because they can't play every time you're playing. Seems EXTREMELY egoistic/self-centered to me.
Someone else who clearly doesn't get it.
So, let me ask this question cochise. Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?
The fact that it is a game has absolutely no bearing on ANYTHING. When you are participating in a group activity that REQUIRES the attention and mental focus of every person on that team, then its NOT ok for you to put RL in front of that (barring life/death type of shit) when YOU made a COMMITMENT to 19 or more other people to do your part.
Now, if this was some kind of casual guild and everyone online was like "hey you guys feel like raiding this place?" and they just threw the raid together, then thats a different story.
But, if she joined ahead of time, and the guild leader made it clear that this was a raiding guild and we have specific times and needs for our raiders. Then no, he didnt nothing at all wrong.
Its the same type of selfish BS that parents do when they take their screaming ass kid to a movie theater at 7pm because they wanted to see some new movie but couldnt find or afford a baby sitter. So instead of being a reasonable adult and realizing you're going to ruin it for everyone else by being there with your kid and staying the hell home, you go and instead. Its all just selfish BS.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Maybe not all, but gaming parents are often times the most irresponsible people I have ever seen (or heard as the case may be)..
A vent convo that happened just the other day.
Mother talking: " *laughing* I'm so bad I should have put her to bed hours ago, it's almost midnight my time but I just can't break away; she has to be up for school in 6 hours."
"well go ahead, we don't mind"
"she'll be fine, she knows how to put herself to bed"
How many thousands of times do you hear peoples kids screaming bloody murder in your VIOP channerls (and the parents ignoring them or just yelling back?)
We don't need to bring up the neglect stories that sensationalize the media, but for every one reported, you know there's 20 that aren't.
There are 1000's of guilds, pick another one. Don't procreate if your kids are going to interfere with you "social" life. Most of these dirtbags shouldn't be having the 5 kids they can't afford to feed anyway; and that goes for more than just gamers.
Originally posted by L0C0Man I've never been part of a hardcore raiding guild, though... the closest I've been was when we were weekly raiding karazhan in WoW back during TBC, and we had a couple with young kids that were regulars. Sometimes when it was late at night both would come, but with the understanding that one might have to leave in a hurry if the baby woke up, other times if the baby was awake they would take turns playing (and other times would even play with the baby... she loved playing "horsie".. AKA, running around WoW with her mother's char mounted in a horse), and while I never raided hardcore, I did try to do at least 1 or 2 dungeons run a night or more on weekends, but after my baby was born I've become a much more solo players (which is probably why I'm loving GW2 so much), and usually anytime I go do a dungeon for the first time (rare) first thing I ask is "how long will it take?" and warn that the baby is sleeping and might have to leave if it wakes up, but he usually doesn't. Of course it helps that I'm in a guild that mostly caters to the older players lifestyle..
I was in a hard core raiding guild for a while (mostly WOTLK time), and was on the raiding team for months. Personally i don't think is worth it. Commitment .. long hours ... conflict with RL .. and i can't have fun the way i feel like at the moment. And for what? The access to slightly better gear and the chance to beat the SAME boss (which i have done many times) in hard mode? And i haven't even gone to the drama.
If i want a challenge in gaming, there are plenty of other ways without resort to playing a game as a job, complete with meetings, schedule, and boss (I mean the guy who tell you what to do, not the big monster you kill).
I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions.
While it's true - that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well.
If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.
Originally posted by Hrimnir So, let me ask this question cochise. Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?
If it is serious enough, yes.
I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?
If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.
Your guild, your rules.
If the participants knew what the requirements would be prior to joining or applying, then they accepted the schedule for raids.
People keep stating how selfish people would be to require dedication to the game yet overlook the other players that would be affected by their unwillingness to follow such rules and the selfishness to believe a guild should change it's goals and priorities for an individual at the expense of the group. It's not as if such guilds don't post requirements and those intersted are forewarned.
I personally wouldn't apply to such a guild if I had children (which sadly I don't currently) as they would, for me, come first, always, and I would see it as selfish to ruin a nights entertainment of the other 24+ people (some I may even see as friends) I would play with should an afk be required, therefore I would join a guild with aims and goals more inline with mine.
Why should every guild conform to one view anyway? I don't like coffee personally but I don't demand others stop drinking it because of my dislike. If you don't like it, move on, there are always alternatives and if not create one!
(I have in the past been in several hardcore raid guilds where respect between players existed, people became friends and had fun while taking on the game to see the upper tiers, and the challenge involved. You can have guilds that are not riddled with drama and if your guild feels like a job you are probably in the wrong guild!)
Originally posted by dimnikar I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions. While it's true - that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well. If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.
As much as i want to agree being Casual now, Those guilds have a tendency to be cut throat. Alot of people will come to the conclusion of "If this Guild isnt going to run it i will find somone else who will" and they will leave. As much as you want to help one member as a leader you NEED to think about the entire Guild not just one person.
This is the main reason that i kick people who make fun of my RPers if they are in the Cabal on TSW. i could give a warning, however warning usually mean nothing to them and they will be back at it in a day or 2. it basically means that while my Cabal is RP, if somone is making fun of it or the players that do it i wont do anything about it. I also make this clear to new members, i have a Zero Tolerance policy on it simply because i want to protect my Cabal not a single person.
Because i can.I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Originally posted by CalmOceans However, usually moms have for whatever reason an incredibly short fuse and, while understandable, their child comes before the game, they have on most occasions been more detrimental to our guild's progress than helpful.
Send them our way, our guild has lasted over 15 years because we dont look at members as a stepping stone for our overall progression. It has more to do with good guild management and the ability to deal with different types of people and play styles.
Also, Moms dont have a shorter fuse than those that play only for gear or to become leet...those guys like to make posts on forums about how other players keep them from progressing, got them killed, took their loot, cant play worth crap and other I am better than you thoughts they feel the need to tell everyone outside the guild about.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by CalmOceans
the game should come before RL
Games should never come before real life and if they do, you have problems.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Hrimnir So, let me ask this question cochise. Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?
Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.
There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".
And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.
I think you aren't thinking of this in the right context.
this doesn't seem to be a social family guild where people say "it's ok, we'll get 'er next time..."
It seems like it's a competitive guild.
I've seen competitive amateur sports teams as well as casual friendly teams. Each one has a differebnt set of goals in mind.
I think the responsibility should be up to the person joining. I don't join competitive guilds because I don't want to commit the time and would rather be in a laid back guild where people are just having fun. I can easily see why people join competitive guilds, just like they join competitive sports teams or do anything that has a lot of competition.
I see nothing wrong with people being dedicated competitive players even though it's not my thing.
Originally posted by Hrimnir Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Hrimnir So, let me ask this question cochise. Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?
Things like that do happen, and it doesnt have to be a life threatening situation, but when things happen and assuming your child was injured seriously enough to need stitches, that is serious enough, then yes, i would leave my place of work to deal with it, not just for things that happen to children either, same if anything happened to my wife and she was taken to hospital, then i would also be there. My work wouldnt do anything about it, and it wouldnt be a good idea for them to either, because if they did, the union would nail them to the wall.
How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!? If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.
Originally posted by Hrimnir And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.
Obvious there is a matter of degree. However, a job that won't let me go if my kid needs stitches? Thanks but no thanks.
And also quite obvious that i would choose a job that is more family friendly. (Not that i *can* play pro ball anyway).
i agree with the hardcore guild position, but this is exactly the point, if my kid is screaming in pain because they stubbed their toe then yes as a parent i should be giving them attention. I would be a fairly horrific parent if I continued playing my game and ignoring my child, a pretty disgusting human being actually.
In a professional team you are doing your real life job, thats different.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Originally posted by Kezzadrix
Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Bladestrom
If a guild intends to have 10 people focus for 100% of the time for x hour blocks you as a parent cannot and should not be able to guarantee that. When a parent goes afk for 10 minutes that affects 9 other real people. There is a time when you have to realise you cannot have your cake and eat it. Seems reasonable at hte very least you should give the guild the option to consider that your children will come first at times.
This applies to moms and dads equally.
Don't most guild applications ask for scheduling availablity? Unless someone is actively deceving in the application, this will come up almost for sure.
The truth it a lot of people lie on guild applications, especially if your in a decent progression guild. The applicant wants to progess and of course they never consider the other people in the team.
They'll say they have the times free for your raiding but then some issues comes up several weeks in a row and when you finally decide to chop them they kick up a fuss because your not considering their, 'circumstances', and it's only a, 'game'.
It's the same thing with any team sport/hobby. If you can't make the practice or you keep having other issues in a game, don't expect to make the team. Your unreliable, you may have a legitimate reason in your eyes but it's simply unfair to anyone else who turned up and is reliable.
Guilds in MMOs relay on people agreeing to a certain playstyle. It's what you have in common, and you barely know most of these people, so it has to be set in stone as the rules. I find the biggest problems happen when someone comes into a guild and believes their, 'circumtances', are different due to some RL issue which means their beyond the rules of the guild.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Here is the thing, its not actually as much as having RL come before Gaming, honestly if im part of a group that actually has a schedual and has specific days they do things. i can plan around that, Parents can't plan around anything. Kids don't exactly have off switches without the use of duct tape, and then child serves get involved and it just becomes a headache. Kids have this weird thing they do its called Doing things.
This Doing things involves
Wanting attention (the agony).
Wanting a Drink.
All these things can happen at any given time. so attempting to plan to get into something that doesnt involve the kid has a tendency to be troublesome.
So basically i would say to stay away from raiding until they are at the age when they want to ignore you and do their own thing anyways.
This is partly why ive decided to take the No kids Route, i Will not be missing the resulting Weight and Pain either.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Kezzadrix
*looks at the dinner* Cooked spinach, squash, liver. *looks at the game and quietly closes the door so the smells can't get in*
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by dimnikar I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions. While it's true - that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well. If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.
I totally think the guild should build itself the way it wants. However, what was the OPs "hardcore" guild doing recruiting non-hardcore players in the first place?
It sounds like they either billed themselves as something they're not or decided to change focus after establishing themselves. The responsiblity is shared. It's the guilds job to filter and vette recruits. It's a players respnsibility to know what guild they're getting into and be honest. Any hardcore guild is going to have a site page with an application, interviews, and test runs. If this guild isn't doing that then they're a bunch of rookies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I'm just saying think about the situation they're in for a bit and that they bill themselves as hardcore. How the hell do they get into the situation. I think they certainly shoulder a lot of the blame for being so stupid and letting the problem arise in the first place. On top of that the title and premise is childish and immature. As previously pointed out, the gender is irrelevant.
I'm going to go with the poster way above that credits this as a really expert troll thread.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by dimnikar I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions. While it's true - that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well. If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.
Oh cmon we all know the deal here, a guild advertised as being hardcore, which means x number of nights focused raiding. The Dad/Mom fills in the application and agrees to the ethe stipulations and that they can commit 100% to the raids, then through family commitments they cant. Its the player's fault for going for a hardcore guild when they have other commitments.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Kezzadrix
LOL .. but i am sure your wife's voice will can get in. And how about if it is ribeye steak night? (Don't tell my wife i am doing it for the food, and not for her .. heheheheh).
Originally posted by Bladestrom
This problem is not more or less compared to other clubs, and sports team .. there is always the chance of a mismatch.
Just kick the person, or quit when that happens.
Originally posted by Omnifish Guilds in MMOs relay on people agreeing to a certain playstyle. It's what you have in common, and you barely know most of these people, so it has to be set in stone as the rules. I find the biggest problems happen when someone comes into a guild and believes their, 'circumtances', are different due to some RL issue which means their beyond the rules of the guild.
I think thats one of my pet peeves about the modern MMO gaming scene today.
People don't see other characters as people. They see them as tools to be used and discarded as and when needed. Yet at the same time demand that others see them in a different light.
If you can't give the time then don't group, others may have limited free time too and by dropping group or ruining a raid you may be screwing them over. If they are happy enough with your restrctions or situations then by all means but if you really want people to consider your feelings consider theirs for even a fraction of a second too.
Very few people would begrudge someone an emergency. But many things that people do are not emergencies, it's just total lack of consideration for the people the play with.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Kezzadrix
"I'm not feeling that great" = More alone time on the computer... If you can pull it off
"I'm Trying to lose weight" = Clear bullshit never use
"Oh sorry i already ate" = Billboard of "you want me to eat THAT"