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Moms with young children in MMO are ticking time bombs.
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Maybe not all, but gaming parents are often times the most irresponsible people I have ever seen (or heard as the case may be)..
A vent convo that happened just the other day.
Mother talking: " *laughing* I'm so bad I should have put her to bed hours ago, it's almost midnight my time but I just can't break away; she has to be up for school in 6 hours."
"well go ahead, we don't mind"
"she'll be fine, she knows how to put herself to bed"
--
How many thousands of times do you hear peoples kids screaming bloody murder in your VIOP channerls (and the parents ignoring them or just yelling back?)
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We don't need to bring up the neglect stories that sensationalize the media, but for every one reported, you know there's 20 that aren't.
--
There are 1000's of guilds, pick another one. Don't procreate if your kids are going to interfere with you "social" life. Most of these dirtbags shouldn't be having the 5 kids they can't afford to feed anyway; and that goes for more than just gamers.
I was in a hard core raiding guild for a while (mostly WOTLK time), and was on the raiding team for months. Personally i don't think is worth it. Commitment .. long hours ... conflict with RL .. and i can't have fun the way i feel like at the moment. And for what? The access to slightly better gear and the chance to beat the SAME boss (which i have done many times) in hard mode? And i haven't even gone to the drama.
If i want a challenge in gaming, there are plenty of other ways without resort to playing a game as a job, complete with meetings, schedule, and boss (I mean the guy who tell you what to do, not the big monster you kill).
I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions.
While it's true - that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well.
If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.
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If it is serious enough, yes.
I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?
If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.
Your guild, your rules.
If the participants knew what the requirements would be prior to joining or applying, then they accepted the schedule for raids.
People keep stating how selfish people would be to require dedication to the game yet overlook the other players that would be affected by their unwillingness to follow such rules and the selfishness to believe a guild should change it's goals and priorities for an individual at the expense of the group. It's not as if such guilds don't post requirements and those intersted are forewarned.
I personally wouldn't apply to such a guild if I had children (which sadly I don't currently) as they would, for me, come first, always, and I would see it as selfish to ruin a nights entertainment of the other 24+ people (some I may even see as friends) I would play with should an afk be required, therefore I would join a guild with aims and goals more inline with mine.
Why should every guild conform to one view anyway? I don't like coffee personally but I don't demand others stop drinking it because of my dislike. If you don't like it, move on, there are always alternatives and if not create one!
(I have in the past been in several hardcore raid guilds where respect between players existed, people became friends and had fun while taking on the game to see the upper tiers, and the challenge involved. You can have guilds that are not riddled with drama and if your guild feels like a job you are probably in the wrong guild!)
As much as i want to agree being Casual now, Those guilds have a tendency to be cut throat. Alot of people will come to the conclusion of "If this Guild isnt going to run it i will find somone else who will" and they will leave. As much as you want to help one member as a leader you NEED to think about the entire Guild not just one person.
This is the main reason that i kick people who make fun of my RPers if they are in the Cabal on TSW. i could give a warning, however warning usually mean nothing to them and they will be back at it in a day or 2. it basically means that while my Cabal is RP, if somone is making fun of it or the players that do it i wont do anything about it. I also make this clear to new members, i have a Zero Tolerance policy on it simply because i want to protect my Cabal not a single person.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Send them our way, our guild has lasted over 15 years because we dont look at members as a stepping stone for our overall progression. It has more to do with good guild management and the ability to deal with different types of people and play styles.
Also, Moms dont have a shorter fuse than those that play only for gear or to become leet...those guys like to make posts on forums about how other players keep them from progressing, got them killed, took their loot, cant play worth crap and other I am better than you thoughts they feel the need to tell everyone outside the guild about.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Games should never come before real life and if they do, you have problems.
Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.
There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".
And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I think you aren't thinking of this in the right context.
this doesn't seem to be a social family guild where people say "it's ok, we'll get 'er next time..."
It seems like it's a competitive guild.
I've seen competitive amateur sports teams as well as casual friendly teams. Each one has a differebnt set of goals in mind.
I think the responsibility should be up to the person joining. I don't join competitive guilds because I don't want to commit the time and would rather be in a laid back guild where people are just having fun. I can easily see why people join competitive guilds, just like they join competitive sports teams or do anything that has a lot of competition.
I see nothing wrong with people being dedicated competitive players even though it's not my thing.
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Things like that do happen, and it doesnt have to be a life threatening situation, but when things happen and assuming your child was injured seriously enough to need stitches, that is serious enough, then yes, i would leave my place of work to deal with it, not just for things that happen to children either, same if anything happened to my wife and she was taken to hospital, then i would also be there. My work wouldnt do anything about it, and it wouldnt be a good idea for them to either, because if they did, the union would nail them to the wall.
How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!? If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.
Obvious there is a matter of degree. However, a job that won't let me go if my kid needs stitches? Thanks but no thanks.
And also quite obvious that i would choose a job that is more family friendly. (Not that i *can* play pro ball anyway).
i agree with the hardcore guild position, but this is exactly the point, if my kid is screaming in pain because they stubbed their toe then yes as a parent i should be giving them attention. I would be a fairly horrific parent if I continued playing my game and ignoring my child, a pretty disgusting human being actually.
In a professional team you are doing your real life job, thats different.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.
The truth it a lot of people lie on guild applications, especially if your in a decent progression guild. The applicant wants to progess and of course they never consider the other people in the team.
They'll say they have the times free for your raiding but then some issues comes up several weeks in a row and when you finally decide to chop them they kick up a fuss because your not considering their, 'circumstances', and it's only a, 'game'.
It's the same thing with any team sport/hobby. If you can't make the practice or you keep having other issues in a game, don't expect to make the team. Your unreliable, you may have a legitimate reason in your eyes but it's simply unfair to anyone else who turned up and is reliable.
Guilds in MMOs relay on people agreeing to a certain playstyle. It's what you have in common, and you barely know most of these people, so it has to be set in stone as the rules. I find the biggest problems happen when someone comes into a guild and believes their, 'circumtances', are different due to some RL issue which means their beyond the rules of the guild.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Here is the thing, its not actually as much as having RL come before Gaming, honestly if im part of a group that actually has a schedual and has specific days they do things. i can plan around that, Parents can't plan around anything. Kids don't exactly have off switches without the use of duct tape, and then child serves get involved and it just becomes a headache. Kids have this weird thing they do its called Doing things.
This Doing things involves
Breaking things.
Breaking themselves.
Disappearing randomly.
Wanting attention (the agony).
Wanting Food.
Wanting a Drink.
Etc
All these things can happen at any given time. so attempting to plan to get into something that doesnt involve the kid has a tendency to be troublesome.
So basically i would say to stay away from raiding until they are at the age when they want to ignore you and do their own thing anyways.
This is partly why ive decided to take the No kids Route, i Will not be missing the resulting Weight and Pain either.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
*looks at the dinner* Cooked spinach, squash, liver. *looks at the game and quietly closes the door so the smells can't get in*
Oh cmon we all know the deal here, a guild advertised as being hardcore, which means x number of nights focused raiding. The Dad/Mom fills in the application and agrees to the ethe stipulations and that they can commit 100% to the raids, then through family commitments they cant. Its the player's fault for going for a hardcore guild when they have other commitments.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
LOL .. but i am sure your wife's voice will can get in. And how about if it is ribeye steak night? (Don't tell my wife i am doing it for the food, and not for her .. heheheheh).
This problem is not more or less compared to other clubs, and sports team .. there is always the chance of a mismatch.
Just kick the person, or quit when that happens.
I think thats one of my pet peeves about the modern MMO gaming scene today.
People don't see other characters as people. They see them as tools to be used and discarded as and when needed. Yet at the same time demand that others see them in a different light.
If you can't give the time then don't group, others may have limited free time too and by dropping group or ruining a raid you may be screwing them over. If they are happy enough with your restrctions or situations then by all means but if you really want people to consider your feelings consider theirs for even a fraction of a second too.
Very few people would begrudge someone an emergency. But many things that people do are not emergencies, it's just total lack of consideration for the people the play with.
"I'm not feeling that great" = More alone time on the computer... If you can pull it off
"I'm Trying to lose weight" = Clear bullshit never use
"Oh sorry i already ate" = Billboard of "you want me to eat THAT"
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
And thats all fine and dandy. The problem arises when you expect 19-24 other people who have limited time in their day to pursue the leisure activity of their choice to throw down what they're doing and wait on YOU.
You seem to be a rational and reasonable adult/parent, so i doubt you would join a guild that made it clear upfront that there was a set raiding time and an expectation that barring something major (or what you would consider major) that you be there on time and be focused. The problem arises when you have people who know full well they have a kid who is going to require borderline constant attention and then bull faced lie to a guild leader saying "ya no problem i can do that" when they in fact cant.
Thats a problem, and it has nothing to do with game vs real life. It has to do with dignity, decency and principal.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Sorry OP, you are required to allow everyone into your guild based on the great international guild law of Oslo 1991...