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What's the longest running profitable MMO?

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  • sea.shellsea.shell SelfossPosts: 63Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    NCSoft puts the commercial launch of Lineage KR in September 1998.
    Source: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/aboutus/nchistory.aspx


    Thank you was looking for something offical, so i probably found reviews about "beta" tests of the service in the korean corner of the internet. Then that makes UO older going by release date.

    Playing: EVE Online
    Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

    Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

    Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
    WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,131Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Irondust
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
     

     If you are talking about "really profitable" that's even worse - because as I've mentioned repeatedly Lineage is unlikely to ever beat WoW, even if you give Lineage 5 extra years and Wow dies now (of course UO is not in the equation in this instance).

    You are still not comprehending the mathematical part of this dilemma.

    We have different meanings of "really profitable". I mean "really profitable" in a way that game earns more money, than needed to keep servers up, make updates, new content and tech support. You are said than "really profitable" is "most prifitable in world", which is not true. 

    And I'm not talking about mathematics, I'm talking about which game can be considered "profitable" or "not-profitable". Lineage can be considered profitable, UO and EQ can't, basing of publishers financial reports.

    "really profitable" is your own criteria. The OP's assignment of "15% of the books" is equally ridiculous when comparing companies with 8 titles and other companies with 20-50 new titles every year for over 15 years.

     

    "What's the longest running profitable MMO?"  The answer, by any measure, is Ultima Online. Had the question been "What's the most profitable MMO of the MMOs that have been around for over a decade?" the answer most likely would have been Lineage.

     

    Well, if the information provided by a sea.shell is correct, then it really is Lineage 1, by a nose.

    UO released on 24 September 1997, (NA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online
    Lineage released 1. september 1997, (KR) http://m.lineage.plaync.com/board/free/381926

    NCSoft puts the commercial launch of Lineage KR in September 1998.

    Source: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/aboutus/nchistory.aspx

    The oldest I have seen which predates any of the titles mentioned so far is Realm Online(RO). This title has been around since 1996. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Realm_Online . Still has a decent fan base. Still makes money! Is even featured here at MMORPG.com http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/56 . It still has players that visit here!

    Excerpt: The Realm was launched in December 1996 for Windows PC[1] It was designed in the tradition of graphical MUDs,[2] before the popular usage of the terms "massively multiplayer" and "MMORPG"

    Happy Times ;-D I WIN THE COOKIE!! :-D

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Lineage 1 still is the most profitable game from NcSoft, so, if Lineage Eternal follows the same idea of L1: open world + clan wars over resourses and politics and good pk system, I'm sure that Eternal will be the next king of NC.
  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,131Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Lineage 1 still is the most profitable game from NcSoft, so, if Lineage Eternal follows the same idea of L1: open world + clan wars over resourses and politics and good pk system, I'm sure that Eternal will be the next king of NC.

    But it still is not the oldest profitable MMORPG. Which is what the OP thread is about. If I wanted to read about Lineage being the oldest NC soft title I would visit the gamelist here at mmorpg with Lineage in it. No ninjaing :-D Realm Online is the oldest profitable mmorpg on the market today.

    As a follow up. (RO) only has one server. Which has been maintained through the years. It has very minimal upkeep cost. It also  can use dial up. Thus all the subscription fees are most profit about said margins in the original thead. While the Original Thread gave a percentage. It did not give a minimum or maximum threshhold of what is profit. Thus (RO) would be a profitable MMORPG.

  • worldalphaworldalpha Milton, ONPosts: 403Member
    Are there any long running unprofitable MMOs?  Not likely.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Irondust
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
     

     But UO still running, regardless of whether we count in Lineage Korea (which is already stretching it considering they already pulled out of NA and the west, which means it already half closed shop in a sense).

    Until UO stops and Lineage still keeps going on for 1 year after UO stops, Lineage can still not yet claim to be the "longest" running profitable mmo.

    The semantic of "Longest"  is > than "most profitable" in the "Longest running profitable" debate, because until a game closes shop, it is can still potentially profit.

     

    Lineage earns more money than UO and Everquest combined, so it definetly "Longest profitable". Not "potentially", but really profitable.

    The OP asked for the longest running profitable MMO, not the longest running and most profitable MMO.  If you can't tell the difference, then maybe you should go back to grammar school.  Even then, Lineage would still need to have run a year longer as the longevity takes prescedence over the degree of profitablity.

    image
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by worldalpha
    Are there any long running unprofitable MMOs?  Not likely.

    ....launched in April 1988 on GEnie.[3] It was one of the first MMORPGs and is one of the longest running online games still active....

    (WARNING to the general public considering a leap to the offensive: I agree that the game in question would not be considered an MMO by most people, or by me.)  Wikipedia, the usual reliable :cough:  data source.

    Possibly closer than many of the games this site reviews. The "massive" is particularly dubious...

    But the date's real, and David Whatley's still buying sports cars :shrug:

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,131Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by worldalpha
    Are there any long running unprofitable MMOs?  Not likely.

    ....launched in April 1988 on GEnie.[3] It was one of the first MMORPGs and is one of the longest running online games still active....

    (WARNING to the general public considering a leap to the offensive: I agree that the game in question would not be considered an MMO by most people, or by me.)  Wikipedia, the usual reliable :cough:  data source.

    Possibly closer than many of the games this site reviews. The "massive" is particularly dubious...

    But the date's real, and David Whatley's still buying sports cars :shrug:

    A  excerpt from your MMORPG link. "Finally, MMORPGs as defined today began with Meridian 59 in 1996, innovative both in its scope and in offering first-person 3D graphics, with The Realm Online appearing nearly simultaneously.[15] Ultima Online, released in 1997, is often credited with first popularizing the genre,[15] though more mainstream attention was garnered by 1999's EverQuest in the West[15] and 1996's Nexus: The Kingdom of the Winds in South Korea."

    That said Meridian 59 was by far the first. Except it is not profitable today. As it is now a open source and relies heavily on donations. So Realm Online takes the next position. As it came out before Ultima Online and retains a profit to this day.

    The Meridian 59 website: http://www.meridian59.com/ and the correction needed at Wikpedia.  "The Realm was launched in December 1996 for Windows PC[1] It was designed in the tradition of graphical MUDs,[2] before the popular usage of the terms "massively multiplayer" and "MMORPG".[3]"

    You also may consider Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds as the first MMORPG to retain a profit. As this game is still played today and may have been released prior to RO. http://www.nexustk.com/index.html It is quite profitable.

  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member
    I'd imagine WoW would be the most profitable MMORPG of all time. It's got a reliable user base, monthly subscriptions, and a die hard fanbase. Nothing about this game is unreliable.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,549Member Uncommon
    This question needs to define further between USA and overseas.  There's prob games running us NA's don't even know about.  And how many mmo's are there in existance?  Question is to big.
  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,131Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    I'd imagine WoW would be the most profitable MMORPG of all time. It's got a reliable user base, monthly subscriptions, and a die hard fanbase. Nothing about this game is unreliable.

    Reading perception 101 needed. The OP did not ask for "MOST PROFITABLE". Please reread and then give a answer!

  • bopice12bopice12 winon, MNPosts: 20Member

    Everquest!

     

    For one , UO is technically a mmorpg..... , but   it's nothing like the mmorpg of today.

    Everquest is the first TRUE mmorpg as we know them today.  

    Look at Wow / Rift / Eso / lotro .   They all have the same exact look / feel / ui of everquest.   minus the stupid quest hubs and mini map etc junk.

     

    If you love mmorpg's . You'd join us on EQ mac .  go to rerolled.org to find the way to play on a pc....

     

    I've played every . Yes every mmorpg .  Not opinions this is fact.  Mmorpg by fun factor in order:

    1. Everquest 1999-2001  .    play eq mac "stuck in 2002" or play P1999 stops at velious .

    way far 2nd is.  EQoa =  shutdown last year.

    3.   Wow Vanilla = it was new , it had smooth combat , questing to level sucked though. had cool dungeons" but not even close to as good as eq1's dungeons or even eqoa's.

    4.  GW2  = the combat flows like water.  It's insanely smooth gameplay. just no longevity.

    5. lotro = pre moria ...   was awesome pre moria and pre crafting drop changes.

    6. rift. = if you like quest hub games this has it all even housing . i just can't stand quest hub games anymore.

     

    Back to the point  . UO shouldn't really count .  Meridian 59 shouldn't count . Lineage should not count.  as they are not really mmorpg as we know them today.. The shit was only above head view for christs sake.  They are like diablo 2 with a bigger multi player world.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Irondust
    It is Lineage, started in 1998 and still has millions of players in Korea
    Your graph made it look Lineage is no longer running, as of sometime in 2009. That makes it a game that ran 11 years? EQ and UO are still running (15+ and 13+ years and counting), and I assume at a "profit" as Sony and EA are not known for their charity work. Is Lineage still up and running?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,131Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bopice12

     

    Back to the point  . UO shouldn't really count .  Meridian 59 shouldn't count . Lineage should not count.  as they are not really mmorpg as we know them today.. The shit was only above head view for christs sake.  They are like diablo 2 with a bigger multi player world.

    Point taken. Now you can have this point: A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. Many games have at least one persistent world, however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all.

    So technically UO, Meridian 59, and any after Meridian would be considered a MMORPG.

    Its ok to be a avid fanboy of EQ. I am one too ;-D

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    I'd imagine WoW would be the most profitable MMORPG of all time. It's got a reliable user base, monthly subscriptions, and a die hard fanbase. Nothing about this game is unreliable.

    Not what the OP asked and even then you'd be incorrect. WoW is the largest most profitable in the west, but there are several far larger and more profitable elsewhere. 

  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by xpowderx
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    I'd imagine WoW would be the most profitable MMORPG of all time. It's got a reliable user base, monthly subscriptions, and a die hard fanbase. Nothing about this game is unreliable.

    Reading perception 101 needed. The OP did not ask for "MOST PROFITABLE". Please reread and then give a answer!

    My bad, where would I find the quarterly reports of every MMORPG ever made? You should probably reread the original post as well, because it does ask for the most sustained profit.

     

    My opinion holds true. WoW is probably the most reliable MMORPG profit of any of the MMORPGs out there because of the fanbase being so strongly invested. Profit is based on the userbase's sustained subscriptions minus the costs to maintain the game (if my business teacher has taught me anything). I am not a statistician, accountant, or anything of the sort but this seems like a logical way of finding the actual profits of a game.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,615Member Uncommon
    If Kingdom of Drakkar still exists and if it's making a profit then probly that.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Ultima Online maybe. Anything else before 1997? 
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    did RS ship before Lineage? it's gotta be one of those two. i don't know if UO meets the requirements. i know EQ is doing well but probably not old enough.

    Lineage older than EQ?  I'm surprised.  I always figured LIN as an eastern EQ clone.

    According to Wikipedia Lineage borrows a lot from Nethack (but there's no reference cited). I had read that it was influenced by Diablo/Diablo 2.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bopice12

    Everquest!

     

    For one , UO is technically a mmorpg..... , but   it's nothing like the mmorpg of today.

    Everquest is the first TRUE mmorpg as we know them today.  

    Look at Wow / Rift / Eso / lotro .   They all have the same exact look / feel / ui of everquest.   minus the stupid quest hubs and mini map etc junk.

     

    If you love mmorpg's . You'd join us on EQ mac .  go to rerolled.org to find the way to play on a pc....

     ...

    Back to the point  . UO shouldn't really count .  Meridian 59 shouldn't count . Lineage should not count.  as they are not really mmorpg as we know them today.. The shit was only above head view for christs sake.  They are like diablo 2 with a bigger multi player world.

    There you have it. To be a TRUE mmorpg, an MMORPG must be

    • - 3D
    • - high fantasy
    • - class restricted
    • - level based
    • - Diku-derived
    • - AC2 UI
    No need to argue over the definition anymore. bopice12 here has it nailed.
     
     

    You're not the only one that feels that if it isn't EQ/WOW in design then it isn't an MMO. Lots of people share that crazy misconception.

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Irondust
    I already said, that we have different opinions of what could be considered profitable. For me it is live servers + updates + additional money for publisher. For you it is just live servers + updates. Further discussion is pointless
    There is NO "opinion" on profit. You totally miss the boat here. Profit is a quantifiable number. Is the cost of running the MMO less than the money it brings in? If yes, it is "profitable." If no, it is NOT "profitable."

    A link to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary Online, since you have no clue about what "profit" means.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    Originally posted by xpowderx
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    I'd imagine WoW would be the most profitable MMORPG of all time. It's got a reliable user base, monthly subscriptions, and a die hard fanbase. Nothing about this game is unreliable.

    Reading perception 101 needed. The OP did not ask for "MOST PROFITABLE". Please reread and then give a answer!

    My bad, where would I find the quarterly reports of every MMORPG ever made? You should probably reread the original post as well, because it does ask for the most sustained profit.

     

    My opinion holds true. WoW is probably the most reliable MMORPG profit of any of the MMORPGs out there because of the fanbase being so strongly invested. Profit is based on the userbase's sustained subscriptions minus the costs to maintain the game (if my business teacher has taught me anything). I am not a statistician, accountant, or anything of the sort but this seems like a logical way of finding the actual profits of a game.

    Your business teacher isn't suspect; Your grammar teacher is. The question still is longest running, not most profitable.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by emperorwings
    If Kingdom of Drakkar still exists and if it's making a profit then probly that.

    I think it is a web game now, and i am sure it is "profitable" since the dev costs have be recuped long time ago.

    Surprised to see someone else knows this game though. I played this for quite a while in the early-mid 90s before UO/EQ time. I still remember it costed $2 an hour then, on the MPGnet. And this is the ONLY game worth playing on MPGnet although they have quite a few other online games.

  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,131Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    Originally posted by xpowderx
    Originally posted by Rossboss
    I'd imagine WoW would be the most profitable MMORPG of all time. It's got a reliable user base, monthly subscriptions, and a die hard fanbase. Nothing about this game is unreliable.

    Reading perception 101 needed. The OP did not ask for "MOST PROFITABLE". Please reread and then give a answer!

    My bad, where would I find the quarterly reports of every MMORPG ever made? You should probably reread the original post as well, because it does ask for the most sustained profit.

     

    My opinion holds true. WoW is probably the most reliable MMORPG profit of any of the MMORPGs out there because of the fanbase being so strongly invested. Profit is based on the userbase's sustained subscriptions minus the costs to maintain the game (if my business teacher has taught me anything). I am not a statistician, accountant, or anything of the sort but this seems like a logical way of finding the actual profits of a game.

    But that is a bit skewed. I will explain why. If there is a game company that runs 1 server, but only has a population of 500 people playing it loyally consistantly over the years. What would be the profit margin on such a venture. Lets throw out some figures with this. Each of the players pay lets say 6 dollars a month. The company that maintains this game maybe updates it or does something to it once every month or even once every two months. Or in the case on Realm Online once every 6 months.  How much of a profit do you think percentage would a game like that take?

    The orignal thread, which I did read correctly. Said Which mmorpg is the oldest that retains a profit of at least 15% a month or more. Here is the OPs thread reposted and highlighted in red." what is it? i mean in the sense that it has a strong showing on the books every quarter, not some "oh we're spending 3600/mo in upkeep and we're making 4100/mo" type deal. something that represents at least 15%(or more) of the parent company's earnings every quarter."

     

    In that case, considering maintenance and server cost. Realm Online is a bargain.  As it is only one server with a cost of maybe 300 dollars a year. With a average markup of 85% to 90% profit monthly from its subscribers. That of course is minimal. The OP did not ask which mmorpg has the highest profit. All that is asked is if it is above 15%. Since that is the case. Realm Online is in, and WOW is out(Due to WOWs newer age). As Realm Online is both old and has a profit margin above 15%.

    Thanks for the input :-D

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Irondust
    I already said, that we have different opinions of what could be considered profitable. For me it is live servers + updates + additional money for publisher. For you it is just live servers + updates. Further discussion is pointless

    There is NO "opinion" on profit. You totally miss the boat here. Profit is a quantifiable number. Is the cost of running the MMO less than the money it brings in? If yes, it is "profitable." If no, it is NOT "profitable."

     

    A link to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary Online, since you have no clue about what "profit" means.

    Yeah, there really isn't a lot of wiggle room for interpretation here.  The answer is probably a lot more obscure than the mainstream mmos we've been listing like the Kingdom of Drakkar.

    The op could have formed the question a little better if he was looking for the longest running most profitible mmo.  The oldest one with a profit doesn't mean much.

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