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  • LongLivePvPLongLivePvP LA, CAPosts: 102Member
    This will take at least 3 yrs to go full blown release if Kick starter is successful ...so yeah

    Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
    Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
    Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)

  • keitholikeitholi biddeford, MEPosts: 138Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     
    DAoC had PvE, it had really fun PvE that often tied back into what was going on in RvR. Before EA steped in, there was a great crafting system. None instanced dungeons. Player housing. CU is going to need a lot more then RvR to make it. Sure make it the meat of the game but that a long way from a MMO that will make it. 
     

     

    Mr. Jacobs pretty much said they're making a niche game with Camelot Unchained. Fact is, if PvE is important to you, this is not your kind of game. They are aiming at players like me, hardcore PvP/RvR people who really don't care about PvE... AT ALL.

    This game is not meant for PvEers

    It will be niche, that's for sure.  I wonder what these little myopic niche games, such as Darkfall, are going to do when some great well-rounded sandbox games come out with fun PvP *and* all the other stuff too.  Become even more niche is my guess.

    More power to them if the business model is sustainable, but the niche PvP mmo genre is never going to be very big.

    The way I see it, with Jacobs at the helm, he could shoot for taking the whole Darkfail / MO / DAoC and myriad other PvP centric titles audience. There are plenty of us out there to fill the niche, who are just craving something from a Dev who wont be downright dishonest with the playerbase. Even a mediocre attempt from Mark would probably beat anything out by the rest of them, and DAoC only due to age ;)  I'm not saying he's the next mesiah, but I consider him a stand up guy. Lately I just feel so disappointed in not only the games, but the companies behind them who seem more and more willing to mislead and mistreat the playerbase. I don't want to give my money to people like that.

  • LongLivePvPLongLivePvP LA, CAPosts: 102Member

    Needless to say when this goes live on kickstarter next month It will be the first that I will support. 

     

    Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
    Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
    Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)

  • banzai014banzai014 WellingtonPosts: 27Member
    I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.
  • AmischAmisch FreiburgPosts: 10Member
    exxxxciting!
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by banzai014
    I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.

    Yeah that darn kickstarter money always gives us crappy products compared to other money.  I once got a project of mine funded on kickstarter and when I sent it off to the printer, all I got was a cheap hand-painted version on a block of wood.

    Good news is I heard a company in Sweden will take kickstarter money and convert it to real money for 10% of the total. 

  • synnsynn killeen, TXPosts: 546Member


    Originally posted by banzai014 I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.


     
    Mark Jacobs: I’ll go into more detail about that when we get closer to the launch. It is safe to say though that I’ll be sticking my neck on the line (again) financially and I won’t be seeking the full funding amount from Kickstarter. A successful Kickstarter campaign will prove to me and the other investors that putting in the money it will take to launch CU is a worthwhile investment. I’ve been very upfront that this Kickstarter campaign could face-plant for any number of reasons but it’s better to know that now and only lose a small amount time/money from the studio instead of spending millions of dollars on a game that people don’t want

     

     

    ...seems like more then just money from a successful kickstarter program will go into the games development.

  • Marcus-Marcus- Posts: 970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banzai014
    I hope the graphics will be good, although I have my doubts since it's ony backed by kickstarter money.

    In an RvR type game, odds are the graphics will be of lower quality, add to that its a smaller budget  type MMO, i would have my doubts as well.

     

    Thats ok, i personally don't play for graphics.  image

  • KruulKruul Houston, TXPosts: 476Member
    I'm hoping PVE is on par with Darkness Falls. Darkness Falls was one fo the the most entertaining places to hang out when the frontiers were slow.
  • pwainpwain dortmundPosts: 125Member Common
    Originally posted by Kruul
    I'm hoping PVE is on par with Darkness Falls. Darkness Falls was one fo the the most entertaining places to hang out when the frontiers were slow.

    Agree with that,  Darkness Falls was amazing.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,758Member Uncommon
    DAoC 2.0 is only fine if they learn from the mistakes that DAoC made......
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    DAOC "reborn" "2.0"

     

    is this what people are looking for?

     

    Will this game do it right? or will be get another warhammer online type game that everyone flocks to for a month then moves on?

     

    I see its going to kickstarter...wich dissapoints me...i want a game like this to have a big budget, as ive been dabbling in the low budget games for years and know what to expect.

    Jacobs flat out said that this game isn't DAOC 2.0.  I would guess it's so people won't abuse the whole comparison (which is inevitable).  I think people need to step back and see what the game offers to see where it exactly fits in the genre.  

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    DAOC "reborn" "2.0"

     

    is this what people are looking for?

     

    Will this game do it right? or will be get another warhammer online type game that everyone flocks to for a month then moves on?

     

    I see its going to kickstarter...wich dissapoints me...i want a game like this to have a big budget, as ive been dabbling in the low budget games for years and know what to expect.

    You might want to read his interviews...

  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member
    Based on the interviews, I think this game has the potential to basically be a Fantasy version of EVE. I'm personally very excited for this project.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Marcus-
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    DAOC "reborn" "2.0"

     

    is this what people are looking for?

     

    Will this game do it right? or will be get another warhammer online type game that everyone flocks to for a month then moves on?

     

    I see its going to kickstarter...wich dissapoints me...i want a game like this to have a big budget, as ive been dabbling in the low budget games for years and know what to expect.

    I've been dabbling in big budget games just the same...

     

    Its not much better there either  image

    Exacty, Many big budget mmo's have came out and sank fast. If there's no substance, no innovation, no individuality, just another cloned version of WoW, it's not going to make it, no matter how many millions they poured into it.

    The last good mmorpg game I played was Dark Age of Camelot, and they didn't have a huge budget at the time, and the game was great. Mark even had to borrow money to be able to buy more servers for DAOC, they didn't anticipate how successful it would be. He spent a lot of his own money and has said he would do so again for this project. I highly doubt he wouldn't try his damn best to make sure the game is the best he could possibly make with his own money thrown in as well as ours.

    I'd much rather put my chips in for the lower budget mmo's these days than the huge budget that will be more of the same.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • FreeceFreece Waterford, WIPosts: 1Member

     I'm a old school DAoCer who recently went back and am currently playing. Tried alot of MMO's in the last 6 years. none come close to Dark age and its RVR.

     I do beleivve tho, that there NEEDS to be PVE in this game. Some type of path in order to create your character for RVR. I dont believe you can just hand everyone the same cookie cutter gear and send them on their way to the slaughter. PVE was a very good resource to outfit your char for RVR. Those who put more work into their char were rewarded with a more powerful force. Building your toon was half the fun.

     Dark age may of set the scale a bit steep with realm ranks, etc but, everyone was rewarded for everything they accomplished.

     It has seemed to me that all of these games need to have all types of "work vs. reward" aspect. When the reward train runs out people loose their ambition to accomplish anything. RVRs accomplishment are as simple as beating the "other"    guy / people.

    I think another fail in most MMOs is the realm reward system they lack. Dark Age had the relics. They gave the realm bonuses.Everyone had common goals which brought people together and the need for Alliances. That in turn helped small guilds in their quests for accomplishments. Obtaining items and gear, etc. Too many MMO's allow full time solo playing which also gets boring unless your a hermit. the 3 realm system worked great for RVr because when a stronger realm had relics, they could be overpowered by the other 2 realms working against them. Not necessarily in conjunction with each other either. therefore creating true balance in imbalance.

     Bottom line is games need to be balanced with PVE and RVR in my honest opinion. If I want to log on and kill other ppl I have the option. If I want to PVE and build a new toon or work on an existing toon I have the option. If I log on and the RVR is a zerg fest and I want to play I can go PVE. Options deter boredom and thats what prolongs game life.

     I hope this new game is a refined version of  arguably best PVP game ever built.

     /my 2 cents

     

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 473Member Uncommon

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Can a mod verify it's actually Mark Jacobs?

     

     

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • EvvNizzledEvvNizzled Saskatoon, SKPosts: 3Member

    My biggest concern is that they lean too heavily on the RvR side.. even a great game like DAoC had a fair amount of PvE in it. 

    WoW ruined the PvE experience with the gear treadmill.  Every now and then Mythic threw in some new gear that made you re work your template, but this wasn't every 4-6 months.. it was at most every expansion.  Some expansions were bigger than others and required more re tooling, but overall it wasn't a struggle, and even your old gear was still usable.  Templates were never just abandoned, they were re worked.

    This system is ok!  Players aren't scared to put in the effort for items as long as they know that item will be useful long term.  I don't mind clearing an open world dungeon with my guild to get a good healing mace for our cleric and a sweet breastplate for the warrior.. this will make us stronger as a group. 

    Hell even in UO you had to kill monsters to get those really good vanquishing weapons (unless you found another player using one  of course :D ).. what I am getting at is that PvE is as necessary to a MMO as PvP is, but you just need to find that great balance like DAoC initially had.

    If you make a quake style MMO people aren't going to pay to play that, you need there to be something they become invested in.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I'm interested to see how housing and what have you could be driven by rvr. That could've quite interesting.

    I liked daoc pve. But to be honest I'm finding mmo pve stale. There's much better pve in games like skyrim, Witcher 2, terraria etc..

    The rvr is what will bring the players, I'm glad it sounds like crafting will be important, and housing is a nice system to have on the side. They could always add those huge realm raids and open dungeons and what not at a later date if the game kicks off. There's a lot of competition with more old school (e.g. good) pve coming out over the next few years with TESO, Archeage, age of wushu, everquest next, world of darkness etc.. (also have my suspicions there might he a AC3) so concentrating on rvr might be a good idea.

    One thing I would love in a new daoc is mounted combat, get the real life trinity of archers / cavalry / infantry combat. I'm particularly obsessed with war of the roses at the moment, but mount & blade and chivalry do similar cool mounted combat.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Evv
    I'm not sure, planetside had no pve. It's my 3rd favourite mmo after eve and daoc.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Another thing
    Wish people would get of marks (and matts) backs.

    If you want to know who the "bad guys" were at mythic, just read the EAlouse stuff about the warhammer / starwars debacle.

    Matt worked on neither game
    Mark only worked on the better one, and was kinda sidelined according to ealouse.

    I'm inclined to believe it as so much of the dirt on starwars turned out to be true.
  • EvvNizzledEvvNizzled Saskatoon, SKPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Evv
    I'm not sure, planetside had no pve. It's my 3rd favourite mmo after eve and daoc.

    All I am saying is that DAoC was great at providing a vested experience.  I had my Cleric, I logged into him and worked at getting his gear, at getting his crafting up and at gaining his realm ranks. I had a reason to keep playing that character, I had invested time into him and had an end result that was beneficial to my realm.  I was willing to pay for that..

    I still have my house in DAoC, I still have my plats, my items, my wall trophies, my realm ranks and my realm abilities.  Even to this day I still have a reason to log in, even if it is just to look around at all the stuff I collected both pixelated and stat wise.

    I think a lot of things missing from these new MMO's are those long term benefits.. I don't want to throw out a set of arena gear that I worked my but off to collect every 4-6 months because a new and shinier suit with 20 more stamina per piece just showed up.. I want to invest time in helping guild members get set up for a long term war, not a short term battle.

     

     

     

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

      Thanks for the kind words as well as the rotten fruit (some of which I certainly deserve, nobody is perfect). I truly appreciate the interest not only that you have shown in this project but more importantly, the support throughout the years at Mythic for Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. I've never taken our players for granted and that's one of the many reasons I always fought the concept of treating players as "walking wallets." I care deeply about our players (former or hopefully future) and what I will promise (and I rarely use the word promise) you is that this concept/design is something I also care deeply about. It is a very personal vision for a game and over the next few weeks I'll be "baring my soul" design-wise at least about the game. If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :) 

       Back in the pre-EA days I was always able to speak my mind, apologize for my mistakes (or those by others) and generally just take the heat for the studio. I won't revisit the past (other than to say what I just have) and I certainly won't dump on friends (current or former) or even former partners/owners (like EA) even if it would gain me some support and explain some things. I wish nothing but the best for guys like Matt Firor and the whole team working on TESO (especially since so many ex-Mythic guys/gals are there) and the leadership of Bethesda and Zenimax and I am looking forward to many of the MMORPGs that are currently in development (but I must admit, I have a special place for ArcheAge as I'm a Jake Song fan) so...

       Again, I thank you for your interest in our project and I hope that you like the direction we are heading with this project and that it is worth your support. 

    Mark

    P.S. I'm really swamped today working on our next version of MoO so I won't be lurking around here answering questions but I have been reading/do read the forums, especially on MMORPG. :)

    Good to see you lurking about. I'm glad you won't waiver and bend on your vision with Camelot Unchained. You have a target audience and you know what you want. I wish you the best of luck, for all of us. I think that's why we have been given such bland, clonish, mmorpgs the past years, with no souls. There's no way to please everyone, so I think it's a great thing you have picked your target audience and are making a project for us, instead of spreading yourselves too thin and making it mediocre to try and please the masses.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • MasitaMasita AugsburgPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs If you like the "Foundational Principles" please know that they are truly set in stone. They are not subject to change, modification, bending, stapling or otherwise multilation (except if the Zombie Apocolypse happens and then all bets are off). :)

     

    I like your ideas and I'm glad to hear you will stick to it. I'm almost sure it will turn out great (at least for the group of players you want to adress). Wish you all the best and hope you get the support you need to get this project started :)

    (sorry for my bad english... just wanted to say: can't wait to read more about it and finally play it ;) )

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