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[Interview] Camelot Unchained: Mark Jacobs On Subs, RVR, and Sandboxes

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Comments

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scottgun
    I believe, as always, that there is room for different monetization models in our industry. I’ve been a long-standing member of the “I love subscription-based games” model and since I’m going for a niche audience, I think it makes sense to use that model again. I really don’t want to create a game that has to figure out how to get a small percentage of people to pay for a game while the largest percentage of them will not pay for the game even if it’s great. In addition, since this game is geared to RvR, I believe we would end up with having to support a lot of people who are just “kicking the tires” and have no intention of being long-time player. Now, if the game is PvE –based, that’s not so bad. However, if you are trying to build a Community, that influx of players could hurt it.

    It really boils down to the fact that I’d rather have 30-50K people playing and paying each month than having to support 1M players hoping to get 5% of them to pay. Now, I also think we can and should revisit the whole “All MMORPG subscriptions should cost $14.95 for one month” thing and be more aggressive in our pricing including lowering the price for certain subs but I’ll talk more about that down the road. What I will say though is I’m not interested in making this game one that needs “whales” to be profitable, nor of making the game $20 per month.

    Guy With Head Screwed On Right

    No kidding.

    It's refreshing to read wise words in such a tragic time for the genre. My wallet will likely be open to this promising title.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • keitholikeitholi biddeford, MEPosts: 138Member
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    No pve? Meh

    Nope, this game is not meant for Raiders / PvE'ers.

    PvP or GTFO!

    I wouldn't be so quick to think there will be no PvE.  Like Mark said in the interview, DAoC would not have been nearly as successful without its PvE content and like he also said, he and his crew have learned from their mistakes and triumphs.  So, not having PvE would be a huge mistake, but that doesn't mean the game couldn't or shouldn't still have a greater focus on the RvR aspect.

     

    I agree with you here, I hope the intent is to make it focused on RvR out of the gate, so we arent faced with RvR rebalancing later down the road, due to a PvE focus at launch.

  • keitholikeitholi biddeford, MEPosts: 138Member

    Back in it's heyday when the BG's were always full in all the level tiers, it was immense fun leveling toons just in RvR alone. You could rank all the way up to max level and have some decent RR by the time you maxed out, without ever having to run all over hell and Hibernia to do quests. And then head on off to do RvR in the frontiers..

     

    Ahh the memories..

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    I'm just not interested in yet another PvP-focsed MMO.  Maybe it will do well, but not my thing.

    You make me like charity

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    Need to see some solid gameplay footage before getting my hopes up.
    30
  • WarWitchWarWitch charlotte, NCPosts: 104Member Uncommon

    Id rather have s sub to wipe out the buy to win mode of "ftp" games any day.

    Played Daoc an loved it, my best mmo times where their.

    I can only hope for a more serious look none of this panda quaggan backpack silly stuff :).

     

  • swing848swing848 Marion, OHPosts: 274Member

    How can RvR cause a game to fail?  It was the center piece of DAoC.

    DAoC failed because Mythic treated players poorly.

    Edit:
     
    This is in reply to Smoey
     

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  • swing848swing848 Marion, OHPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    why name the game after 1 of the 3 factions? is Camelot the "good" or "light" faction? Id consider changing it to something more inclusive, but i guess you're also trying draw some hype by association.
     

    What is the last word in DAoC?

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  • ChakaCanChakaCan San Antonio, TXPosts: 22Member

    PvP done RvR style!!!    Good reason to be excited!  And as for people saying there won't be PvE, lol - The frontiers of camelot had lots of PvE mixed right in.  I always thought there could of been more roaming giants and creatures to mix it up with. 

    Didn't UO mix in lots of creatures to kill and PvP was everywhere.  Why would anyone assume he won't have creatures to kill in his game?   Let's give the man time to tell us his entire vision. 

    I for one am happy to hear about this game as I am planning to play and like TESO, however, I am already dreading doing 1,000+ quests.  (Maybe Mark will leave out quests in CU!!!)  lol

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
     I am curious if they considering this a direct sequel to DAoC or not. I'm sure there are legal implications if they actually said it. But since those mythological stories are not owned by anyone they can still use it.

    image
  • XcomVicXcomVic San Diego, CAPosts: 50Member
    MAKE SUB GAMES UNDER 10/MONTH for FULL ACCESS+, you will MAKE HISTORY and A LOT of players will flock over...you can CHANGE the industry's milking of their customers....help US help YOU!
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    While I am extremely apprehensive about this and will not help fund the kickstarter I will continue to follow it.  As a normal proponent of F2P (or rather the B2P) model, a small part of me agrees with his statement here concenring small niche gaming.  Hopefully he can get the animations and combat right coupled with some sandbox features and you might have a successful startup game.  Will follow for now.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cronius77
    torvanldr are you not in every single thread for guild wars 2 defending it? That game has realm vs realm and so does your favorite game so how exactly is he living in the past? Im asking sencerely also not being condesending. Realm vs Realm has been asked for by a huge chunk of players for every single release since wow. People enjoy fighting for their server or realm against 2 other teams not just 1 .This is far from living in the last when the guys webblog about a year ago was getting glowed up by tons of posts and comments wanting him to make DAOC 2 and more realm vs realm. People love camelot so I do not see why this title wouldnt sell tons in the end. Hes trying to make an appeal to old DAOC vets and tells everyone right from the start this title is going to be made to fill that niche crowd and he doesnt want a million subs just like 50 or 60k.
     

    cranius7,

    Defend what?  Is GW2 in danger?  GW2 isn't an rvr game.  I have a great time in WvW, but it's still themepark battleground pvp.  I love playing GW2 and the community there, but the WvW isn't the anchor for me.  It's the people I play with and the fact that it's Guild Wars.  I've been playing in that universe since it came out.

    I'm skeptical because I think it's a bunch of hooey.  He knows exactly what words will garner support for his kickstarter.  He used them all through the interview (sandbox, rvr, themepark lamentations, etc, bleh).

    Let's say he can squeek it out and make the game for $20M and get 60,000 players.  Each player would need to pay them over $333 just for them to break even.  How is he goig to get roi?  How muc does he have to make per person per unit of time to return on time?  If it costs 30M and he can only get 50,000 players then each one would need to pay $500 just for them to break even.

    Tiered subscriptions?  That doesn't send out a warning bells not to mention sub-locked game access?  If you're going to fork out $15/mo then why would you do it in this and not ESO or GW2 and TSW since you consider the latter two rvr.

    I'm sayiing people should look a little more critically and don't eat it up just because he throws you a few gamer sex words like rvr and sandbox.  If he stands up to a little scrutiny over time then he'll be worth your support.  I don't think it will because nothing in that interview adds up.

  • Stuka1000Stuka1000 Posts: 868Member Uncommon
    Stopped reading the moment I read that the entire game is based around RvR.  MJ has stated elsewhere that he has learned from the past but I think that he missed a spot, the spot where no MMO solely based on PvP has been even remotely close to successful.  The best he can hope for with this model is minor success as a very niche game.
  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    I'm not a big fan of pvp, but I'm actually glad they aren't going to have any PvE for this game.  I've always thought of almost every MMO should be either a PvP or PvE MMO.  They try to add both, but there's always one that seems to do much better than the other.  I play different MMOs depending on what I want.  For PvE I'll play WoW or Rift, to play PvP I'll go play DAoC.

     

    Edit: DAoC is the only game that I actually loved to PvP.

     
  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member
    I think i'll make my own mmo and then make an expansion and call it 'mists of pandaria'.  Oh, wait, that is already a major MMO expansion name.  As matter of fact, it has come out recently so I better think of something unique to name my expansion.  Nah, I'll go with the copied name, because I'm too stupid to think of anything else.  There are a limited number of words in the English language, after all.
  • morbuskabismorbuskabis RodonPosts: 290Member

    Hope the EU ppl can pledge on kickstarter aswell, or they do somthing like Chris Roberts did with Star Citizen, otherwise they might miss out a big junk of cash.

    I would support it =)

    image -Massive-Industries- Heavy Duty

  • cd3925cd3925 Spokane, WAPosts: 29Member
    I am very excited about this. I also totally agree with the pay to play model. And please do not ask us to pay for beta! FTP  really seems to be bastardizing the gaming industry... I hope good ole DAoC rvr is coming back now- heck I loved the pve in DAoC also.
  • Deerhuntah60Deerhuntah60 Elizabethville, PAPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    why name the game after 1 of the 3 factions? is Camelot the "good" or "light" faction? Id consider changing it to something more inclusive, but i guess you're also trying draw some hype by association.

    You're mistaken. :)

    Actually the 3 factions were Albion, Hibernia, and Midgard. Camelot is just a time frame although camelot was the name of the city in Albion. Camelot was the main word in his original title Dark Age of "Camelot". :)

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    If they will aim for 30-50k subs, people will claim the game is a "failure". Because you can't make money unless you have 1M+ subs, right?

     

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by morbuskabis

    Hope the EU ppl can pledge on kickstarter aswell, or they do somthing like Chris Roberts did with Star Citizen, otherwise they might miss out a big junk of cash.

    I would support it =)

     

    Why wouldn't they? I've pledged just fine on the US kickstarter with Amazon payments.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eric1000
    Stopped reading the moment I read that the entire game is based around RvR.  MJ has stated elsewhere that he has learned from the past but I think that he missed a spot, the spot where no MMO solely based on PvP has been even remotely close to successful.  The best he can hope for with this model is minor success as a very niche game.
     

    Well then if you read it all you'll notice a niche game is exactly what he's after.

  • KruulKruul Houston, TXPosts: 476Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    If they will aim for 30-50k subs, people will claim the game is a "failure". Because you can't make money unless you have 1M+ subs, right?

     

    Man I would just like to see 100k dedicated players. THe rest can keep whatever clone they are playing

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon

    Wait... what? I thought the industry told us that the sub model was unprofitable and unsustainable?

     

    Yet here we have, from a man very much in the know, saying he can run his game for a niche audience on it... makes you wonder why those other guys say they can't eh? Maybe it is down to making a sustanable profit or just profiteering, as some here have always maintained?

     

    I admire a man who puts game design before high marketing numbers and a man who seems to understand how the cash shop model is awful for community building and core game design (I do disagree with him that this isn't important for PvE games as well though, but I feel he is being somewhat diplomatic towards his industry peers in what he says here).

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