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Will the real DAOC2 please stand up

2

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Sure about all that Crazy? I know wiki isn't the best resource but it seems like Matt was Exec producer for TOA while Mark was Lead design for TOA. If TOA is the problem shouldn't both of them be a target? Again, i don't really undestand where the problem lies but the anger I find odd and kind of psycho!

    Most of the resentment for Jacobs comes from his handling of WAR and his actions during his departure from the company.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,973Member Uncommon

    DAOC is not likely to ever happen again, and expecting either of the titles to be DAOC 2 will result in a lot of crushed hopes and expectations and gnashing of teeth.

    Better to look forward to the new challenges and fun they are likely to bring to the table, and leave off with the comparisons of the past.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    DAOC is not likely to ever happen again, and expecting either of the titles to be DAOC 2 will result in a lot of crushed hopes and expectations and gnashing of teeth.

    Which is the same description, when you come right down to it, as opening day for every game that does not attempt to be DAOC2 too.

    You might as well enjoy yourself! Go full monty! The Toothfairy is totally real.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Most importantly of all, can play TESO this year, this camelot unchained game would have to wait until 2019 or something.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

    Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

    I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

    TESO is the real DAoC  II.

    Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by winter Mark Jacobs who IMO destroyed DAoC with TOA. Opinions of course will vary with this but after the whole trails of Atlantis bit I'm less willing to support more of the same only under a different developer.

    Matt Firor was part of the design team for TOA too

    TOA blame belongs to more than 1 person

    http://camelotvault.ign.com/?dir=interviews&content=tofajuly0103

     

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Sure about all that Crazy? I know wiki isn't the best resource but it seems like Matt was Exec producer for TOA while Mark was Lead design for TOA. If TOA is the problem shouldn't both of them be a target? Again, i don't really undestand where the problem lies but the anger I find odd and kind of psycho!

    Of course I'm not sure... lol this is from playing DAoC from beta till Lab. It was how I remember it ... I honestly dont know what the wiki says but will check it out.

    He was ceo and Exec Prod as far as I remember... I dont remember him "designing" anything. He pulled and still pulls PR stunts etc, but hes a "chief", I dont remember him as a "hands on" guy in mythic. He was the boss.

    Sure he loves to take credit and thinks that "If I create a game I'm a designer", no... you're not. You can create a game and be a writer or an ex army vet... but thats ok, some people are so incompetent that they can only be in a place of leadership - its just how this world works - if says hes a designer then by all means, hes a designer - dont go talk to him about meshes or uvw mapping tho, he does PR. He LAWVES ZEE CAMERAS BABEY JA? He actually reminds me of "Galaxia" of "Anger Management" a bit btw...

    EDIT: Btw... in wiki, least jacob's (may as well be edited by himself lol... ) it says he was "lead designer"... so which wiki says he wasnt? I doubt any wiki would say he wasnt a "lead designer" his ego alone will be enough to give him a heart attack if he sees something like that...

    image
  • morbuskabismorbuskabis RodonPosts: 290Member

    The more RVR driven games are out, the happier I'am! For there is a good chance that at least one of them could be fun and worth to play for some years!

    image -Massive-Industries- Heavy Duty

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    The advantage of Camelot Unchained is that all the dev time that would be spent on PvE content can be put toward RvR, crafting, or something else. This is great news for someone like me, who doesn't give a damn about PvE.
  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by morbuskabis

    The more RVR driven games are out, the happier I'am! For there is a good chance that at least one of them could be fun and worth to play for some years!

    Zod Agrees, one is bound to be of decent quality.

    image

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

    Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

    I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

    TESO is the real DAoC  II.

    Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

    And thank god for that. There's a lot of MMO stuff that didn't exist in 2001 that exists now. A lot of those were not even seen first in WOW although they are all called "WOW-like" now, especially by the retro "back to the MMO roots" crowd. I'm very happy they haven't jumped on that trendy bus where more pain and inconvenience is somehow better.

    Instancing is the opposite of 1 fps lag fests (in games with anything above 1980 pong graphics) when RvR really gets cooking...did that in DAoC. You have a better idea that doesn't require desktop supercomputers and infinite bandwidth technologies not yet invented?

    Phasing in a megaserver structure is what they call "servers" in a  traditional MMO with the added advantage of "server to server" instant mobility and no need to merge when the population stabilizes. 

    WOW and many games that came after have advanced the genre in many ways. The essential elements that define the game are what make it--not the technical bs that so many here like to disect and whine about.

    The essential WOW is a not-too-serious cartoonish PVE game with horrible PVP scenario and open world ganking shit tacked on as an afterthought. TESO is a full-fledged persistent RvR game from the ground up with PVE segregated the way that DAoC did it. Those are the important bits. Not the AH, balloon rides, dragon mounts or whatever they decide to use as a way of getting you there from here faster than you can jog

    The MMOs for masochists where missing features ARE the feature, are thataway with all the other self-declared sandboxes... mostly in kickstarter semi-scams but there are a couple you can actually play today with the 17 other people that play them. Oh yeah, most of them disdain all the same things you mentioned.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    i personally think this game will be closer to a daoc 2 than mark jacobs project because he seems to only be focusing on realm vs realm and not pve at all. He also gives shouts out to this entire team in his interviews cheering for this game to be awesome. Matt Friror knows realm vs realm probably better than mark does as he was the hands on guy to the entire project. I think both games in the end will be great personally and it will be nice to have two realm vs realm based games building off one another later down the road if all goes well.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

    Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

    I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

    TESO is the real DAoC  II.

    Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

    And thank god for that. There's a lot of MMO stuff that didn't exist in 2001 that exists now.

    Instancing is the opposite of 1 fps lag fests (in games with anything above 1980 pong graphics) when RvR really gets cooking...did that in DAoC. You have a better idea that doesn't require desktop supercomputers and infinite bandwidth technologies not yet invented?

    A team of 17 developers in Greece made an MMORPG engine that supports hundreds of players in real time twitch based battles with no zones, loading, instancing, phasing, none of it.

    Are you telling me a studio with hundreds of devs and millions of investment money can't do better?

    Instancing has fuck all to do with performance, stop being ignorant. Some of us like our MMOs to be multiplayer.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    @ david
    Can you specify? I would like to read up on it.

    image


    image

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
     

    Instancing has fuck all to do with performance, stop being ignorant. Some of us like our MMOs to be multiplayer.

     

    ^ That ^

    To me, instances don't belong in MMO's. So in that regard, I guess I'm old school.

     

    I look forward to trying both TESO and Camelot Unchained. Which one I'll prefer, I cannot say yet.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    @ david
    Can you specify? I would like to read up on it.

    He's talking about that POS known as Darkfall which he obviously never even tried otherwise he wouldn't be making ignorant statements about no lag.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

    Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

    I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

    TESO is the real DAoC  II.

    Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

    And thank god for that. There's a lot of MMO stuff that didn't exist in 2001 that exists now.

    Instancing is the opposite of 1 fps lag fests (in games with anything above 1980 pong graphics) when RvR really gets cooking...did that in DAoC. You have a better idea that doesn't require desktop supercomputers and infinite bandwidth technologies not yet invented?

    A team of 17 developers in Greece made an MMORPG engine that supports hundreds of players in real time twitch based battles with no zones, loading, instancing, phasing, none of it.

    Are you telling me a studio with hundreds of devs and millions of investment money can't do better?

    Instancing has fuck all to do with performance, stop being ignorant. Some of us like our MMOs to be multiplayer.

    GW2 has 300 at a time in their instance. Played that have you? Ignorance is ignoring technical limitations... lies about DF notwithstanding... and oh yeah... fuck, shit, yomamma... is that a better argumnent now?

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    lol any of you guys with daggers out for Mark Jacobs like to point at the doll and show me where the bad man touched you....

    I find it funny people are bigging up Matt Firor for his involvement in TESO but putting down Mark Jacobs here when it was Mark that designed DAOC and Matt was the producer. I obviously am missing something...

    Jacobs was Executive producer in DAoC at its launch... Firor was producer. Then Jacobs moved (after failing hard with Trials of Atlantis and major overhaul trying to go after WoW) from DAoC and Firor became Executive producer during Catacombs and after in Labyrith of the Minotaur. See a pattern?

    Matt Firor became Executive Producer for ToA; *Source

    • 2001 Dark Age of Camelot (Producer/Design)
    • 2002 Dark Age of Camelot: Shrouded Isles ( Producer/Design)
    • 2003 Dark Age of Camelot: Trials of Atlantis (Exec. Producer)
    • 2004 Dark Age of Camelot: Catacombs (Exec Producer)
    • 2013 The Elder Scrolls Online (Director)
    Looks like DAoC fans hit the jack pot.  First they take over TES and now they're getting their own game.  People may hate Mark but we don't know what went on behind closed doors.  He was lead designer behind DAoC and then became CEO.  Work load had to be delegated and it looks like whoever took over made a few mistakes.  Mark accepted responsibility and in my opinion that shows more merit than the weasels hiding in the shadows.

     

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Mt Laurel, NJPosts: 1,089Member

    I'm not interested in an almost purely PvP game like Camelot Unchained sounds like it will be, even though DAoC was my first and still favorite MMO.  I have to have my PvE, even if it's old school grindy like DAoC was.

    TBH TESO sounds more like DAoC2 than CU does.  Plus, TESO will possibly be out this year, or more likely early next year with the inevitable launch delays modern MMOs have, while CU won't be out  probably until 2015-2016.

  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    IF Camelot Unchained gets funded your still looking at maybe a 2016 release date at the earliest.

    It seems its in the concept stage / Idea stage at this point. After the funding I would imagine at least a 3-4 year development time.

    I think TESO will be fine. How threatened could it be from a game thats still in concept.?

    This, way too early to claim the sky is falling.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    @ david
    Can you specify? I would like to read up on it.

    He's talking about that POS known as Darkfall which he obviously never even tried otherwise he wouldn't be making ignorant statements about no lag.

    I've played it, for three years. And I've played DAoC for eight. 

    Darkfall started lagging when about 700 people were on screen at once. 

    DAoC, back in dial up days, took about 500 people before the game started lagging. 

    But funny, you call one of the only worthy MMOs of the last 8 years a pos. 

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    @ david
    Can you specify? I would like to read up on it.

    He's talking about that POS known as Darkfall which he obviously never even tried otherwise he wouldn't be making ignorant statements about no lag.

    I've played it, for three years. And I've played DAoC for eight. 

    Darkfall started lagging when about 700 people were on screen at once. 

    DAoC, back in dial up days, took about 500 people before the game started lagging. 

    But funny, you call one of the only worthy MMOs of the last 8 years a pos. 

    500/700 people on screen? can you link a vid or something because i find that very hard to believe

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    @ david
    Can you specify? I would like to read up on it.

    He's talking about that POS known as Darkfall which he obviously never even tried otherwise he wouldn't be making ignorant statements about no lag.

    I've played it, for three years. And I've played DAoC for eight. 

    Darkfall started lagging when about 700 people were on screen at once. 

    DAoC, back in dial up days, took about 500 people before the game started lagging. 

    But funny, you call one of the only worthy MMOs of the last 8 years a pos. 

    500/700 people on screen? can you link a vid or something because i find that very hard to believe

    I have no idea about Darkfall... but in DAoC, specially in the Old Frontiers you could have easily 500 people on screen.

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    Seems to me, anyone who likes PvE too is going to play ESO. Mark Jacobs has already said he's looking for a small niche and I think thats what he will get with his no PvE approach.

    image
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    @ david
    Can you specify? I would like to read up on it.

    He's talking about that POS known as Darkfall which he obviously never even tried otherwise he wouldn't be making ignorant statements about no lag.

    I've played it, for three years. And I've played DAoC for eight. 

    Darkfall started lagging when about 700 people were on screen at once. 

    DAoC, back in dial up days, took about 500 people before the game started lagging. 

    But funny, you call one of the only worthy MMOs of the last 8 years a pos. 

    500/700 people on screen? can you link a vid or something because i find that very hard to believe

    I have no idea about Darkfall... but in DAoC, specially in the Old Frontiers you could have easily 500 people on screen.

    Then surely it shouldnt be hard to find footage/screenshot of that many on screen, I've looked and cant see anything close to that number

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