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What are your concerns about TESO?

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  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by deakon

    Well every time someone on the forums take a stance that you dont agree with we are labled not true tes fans, I showed that todd howard (the god of tes) has okayed the the world layout and lore, I've also shown that the main guy behind tes is fine with adding restrictions to the ip, but thats all just marketing bs.

    It still ammounts to the same thing and thats if someone doesnt agree with you they are somehow wrong, not a "true" fan or lying.

    First of all this isn't about my relationships between 'EVERYONE' here, this is between me and you.  I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me but I do have a problem with people pestering the shit out of me with nonesense generalizations because we disagree.

    Originally posted by deakon

    "Q: So with two teams, do you guys continually check in with Todd Howard on making sure everything is perfectly within the Elder Scrolls lore?

    Matt Firor: In the early days, when it was just me when I was starting the studio up, we spent a lot of time together to go over the basics. Making sure the lore was consistent, how that was going to work, how the team was going to be set up, how the world was going to be set up."

    Where in your quote has Todd Howards officially 'okayed' the project?  Working with someone is totally different than giving the okay.  Considering how flimsy some of the faction relations are, I'm sure there was compromises made and they did not release Todd Howard's opinion on the matter.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by deakon

    Well every time someone on the forums take a stance that you dont agree with we are labled not true tes fans, I showed that todd howard (the god of tes) has okayed the the world layout and lore, I've also shown that the main guy behind tes is fine with adding restrictions to the ip, but thats all just marketing bs.

    It still ammounts to the same thing and thats if someone doesnt agree with you they are somehow wrong, not a "true" fan or lying.

    First of all this isn't about my relationships between 'EVERYONE' here, this is between me and you.  I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me but I do have a problem with people pestering the shit out of me with nonesense generalizations because we disagree.

    Originally posted by deakon

    "Q: So with two teams, do you guys continually check in with Todd Howard on making sure everything is perfectly within the Elder Scrolls lore?

    Matt Firor: In the early days, when it was just me when I was starting the studio up, we spent a lot of time together to go over the basics. Making sure the lore was consistent, how that was going to work, how the team was going to be set up, how the world was going to be set up."

    Where in your quote has Todd Howards officially 'okayed' the project?  Working with someone is totally different than giving the okay.  Considering how flimsy some of the faction relations are, I'm sure there was compromises made and they did not release Todd Howard's opinion on the matter.

    Don't try and make out your somehow a victim here, you havent been singled out or even pestered. But you cant make comments like this one (Which is'nt the first, and doubt will be the last):

    "I'd be happy if they made two different versions of ESO. One for the DAoC nuts that are thinking it's gonna somehow recreate RvR and then one for the actual TES fans with no faction locks for when the first one fails."

    and not expect to be called up on it, you talk about generalizations, yet you have been the king of them.

    I get that you dont like some of the things in the game, does that make you less/more of a tes fan than me? No it doesn't

    The fact that Todd Howard himself, was responsible for redguard, a linier action game, speaks volumes to how much he is fine with changing what the tes ip "is", you may not want to believe it but people do have different opinions to you, yes even todd howard

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by deakon

    Don't try and make out your somehow a victim here, you havent been singled out or even pestered. But you cant make comments like this one (Which is'nt the first, and doubt will be the last):

    "I'd be happy if they made two different versions of ESO. One for the DAoC nuts that are thinking it's gonna somehow recreate RvR and then one for the actual TES fans with no faction locks for when the first one fails."

    and not expect to be called up on it, you talk about generalizations, yet you have been the king of them.

    HAHA! I liked that one.  I figured you DAoC folks would eat that up.

    What did I need to be "called out on"?  I didn't put words in your mouth - I just stated my opinion.  Feel free to disagree but what are you hoping to accomplish.  You're gonna prove that my definition of a TES fan and yours is different?  Why is it so important to you what I think.. are you seeking approval?

     

    Originally posted by deakon

    I get that you dont like some of the things in the game, does that make you less/more of a tes fan than me? No it doesn't

    The fact that Todd Howard himself, was responsible for redguard, a linier action game, speaks volumes to how much he is fine with changing what the tes ip "is", you may not want to believe it but people do have different opinions to you, yes even todd howard

    I don't like factions were changed to mimic DAoC RvR system.  I figured if you like it then you're more of a DAoC fan than a TES fan.  Again, why is it so important to you what I think about you?   I'm wondering if you're getting defensive because you're not sure if you're a true TES fan or not.

    Oh.. and there is a reason why there was no other spin-offs until ESO.  You assume too much to say that me and  Todd's opinions are different.  Everyone makes mistakes it doesn't mean they support future ones.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by deakon

    Don't try and make out your somehow a victim here, you havent been singled out or even pestered. But you cant make comments like this one (Which is'nt the first, and doubt will be the last):

    "I'd be happy if they made two different versions of ESO. One for the DAoC nuts that are thinking it's gonna somehow recreate RvR and then one for the actual TES fans with no faction locks for when the first one fails."

    and not expect to be called up on it, you talk about generalizations, yet you have been the king of them.

    HAHA! I liked that one.  I figured you DAoC folks would eat that up.

    What did I need to be "called out on"?  I didn't put words in your mouth - I just stated my opinion.  Feel free to disagree but what are you hoping to accomplish.  You're gonna prove that my definition of a TES fan and yours is different?  Why is it so important to you what I think.. are you seeking approval?

     

    Originally posted by deakon

    I get that you dont like some of the things in the game, does that make you less/more of a tes fan than me? No it doesn't

    The fact that Todd Howard himself, was responsible for redguard, a linier action game, speaks volumes to how much he is fine with changing what the tes ip "is", you may not want to believe it but people do have different opinions to you, yes even todd howard

    I don't like factions were changed to mimic DAoC RvR system.  I figured if you like it then you're more of a DAoC fan than a TES fan.  Again, why is it so important to you what I think about you?   I'm wondering if you're getting defensive because you're not sure if you're a true TES fan or not.

    Oh.. and there is a reason why there was no other spin-offs until ESO.  You assume too much to say that me and  Todd's opinions are different.  Everyone makes mistakes it doesn't mean they support future ones.

    Yes your clearly not trying to put words into anyones mouth. / end sarcasm

     

    Truth is I played DAoC for less than a month and by the time i played it, it was very dated, I didnt get into mmo's until 2004, I've been playing tes games from 2002 (and have played all the previous ones since), faction locked areas does not go against tes as long as there is an explanation in the lore (which there is), same as dragons flying around wasnt a part of any tes game until 5, and oblivion gates popping up randomly wasnt in any apart from 4.

     

    If you feel that there should be no spin off tes games, fine, dont play them, there will still be tes6 to look forward to. Feel free to spout YOUR opinion all you want but don't expect to make out your opinion speaks for every tes fan and then get all defensive because you get called up on it by a tes fan that doesnt agree.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by deakon

    Yes your clearly not trying to put words into anyones mouth. / end sarcasm

    Truth is I played DAoC for less than a month and by the time i played it, it was very dated, I didnt get into mmo's until 2004, I've been playing tes games from 2002 (and have played all the previous ones since), faction locked areas does not go against tes as long as there is an explanation in the lore (which there is), same as dragons flying around wasnt a part of any tes game until 5, and oblivion gates popping up randomly wasnt in any apart from 4.

    If you feel that there should be no spin off tes games, fine, dont play them, there will still be tes6 to look forward to. Feel free to spout YOUR opinion all you want but don't expect to make out your opinion speaks for every tes fan and then get all defensive because you get called up on it by a tes fan that doesnt agree.

    If you knew nothing of the game, would you have expected (or wanted) faction locks?

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well tes single player doesn't have pvp.

    So they need a pvp model.

    In my opinion there's only 2 worth copying daoc and eve.

    I suppose they could have made some sort of pve heaven where you voluntarily flag yourself to get pvped (or lol pickpocketed who the hell is going to voluntarily flag that on)

    Or they could have shoved some token mini game shite in like all the wow clones.

    I wouldn't play the last two.
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Well tes single player doesn't have pvp.

    So they need a pvp model.

    In my opinion there's only 2 worth copying daoc and eve.

    I suppose they could have made some sort of pve heaven where you voluntarily flag yourself to get pvped (or lol pickpocketed who the hell is going to voluntarily flag that on)

    Or they could have shoved some token mini game shite in like all the wow clones.

    I wouldn't play the last two.

    Who did DAoC or Eve copy?

    That's one thing that frustrates me so much in the MMO industry.  MMO's are too busy asking themselves who should we copy.  Did you ever figure that maybe they could've came up with something that no one else has done.  Why does it have to copy something to be successful?

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well I would say eve is ultimately a more refined version of uo pvp system.

    Daoc came from nowhere though.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    If they'd come up with something brand new that would be great.

    But IF games are going to copy pvp, daoc and eve are the ones to copy, not bloody wow again and again and again and again.

    Of course many people would prefer no pvp at all or severely watered down and meaningless setup akin to EQ or swg. In which case I point them at the massive success that was vanguard ;)
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    If they'd come up with something brand new that would be great.

    But IF games are going to copy pvp, daoc and eve are the ones to copy, not bloody wow again and again and again and again.

    Of course many people would prefer no pvp at all or severely watered down and meaningless setup akin to EQ or swg. In which case I point them at the massive success that was vanguard ;)

    I never said they shouldn't do DAoC type battle in the middle, only that faction locks was not needed to do it.

    Me and my team of developers have been tossing around a few ideas.  If we go back to the setting I listed earlier (3 houses instead of 3 racial groups) then there would also be rebellion groups. I would set up battles like skrimishes out in the open world.

    For instance if you was a Breton and decided not to join the faction you could PvP with a rebellion group.  They would call the arms and you would meet another group out in the open world and fight it out.  Think of it similar to the battles in Skyrim between the Nords and Imperials.  Instead of battlegrounds you que for, you would go to an area and fight it out with another group of players.

    These battles could be between factions and rebellion groups, factions and factions (in and around the borders) and could even be against 2 non-affiliated NPC groups not getting a long with each other.  Larger scale battles like an actual war would be cool as well (two armies and an open field).  Organized open world PvP!  Like in vanilla WoW (or even playing off what they tried to do in Burning Crusade with the smaller skrimishes).

    It's not perfect but I'm waiting to hear back from the professions.  I'm sure once they add to it we may could get something cool put together.

  • KatlaOdindottirKatlaOdindottir essexPosts: 144Member
    My biggest concern is that the pvp will be just like gw2, a big zerg fest where no individuals skill can really make a difference, and judging by the videos so far this is how it will be, unfortunately :(

    www.daneslaw.com

    @GamerKurisu

    Awaiting Darkfall Unholy Wars

  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    That it turns out to be like Guild Wars 2.
  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Well tes single player doesn't have pvp.

    So they need a pvp model.

    In my opinion there's only 2 worth copying daoc and eve.

    I suppose they could have made some sort of pve heaven where you voluntarily flag yourself to get pvped (or lol pickpocketed who the hell is going to voluntarily flag that on)

    Or they could have shoved some token mini game shite in like all the wow clones.

    I wouldn't play the last two.

    Who did DAoC or Eve copy?

    That's one thing that frustrates me so much in the MMO industry.  MMO's are too busy asking themselves who should we copy.  Did you ever figure that maybe they could've came up with something that no one else has done.  Why does it have to copy something to be successful?

    One of the reasons is all of the risks involved.  First, in designing, then in balancing and then in coding something new.  At each point of the development cycle, you run the risk of delays. Thats especially true with new things.  Delays lead to missed mile stones.

    Missed mile stones lead to investor/publisher panic.  Which leads to cut features, and increased pressure on the Dev teams.  Increased pressure tends to lead to more mistakes, thus more delays.  Its a NASTY feed back loop.

    Copying something else, sides steps some of the above, but adds in the howls about clones of this, that, or the other.

    Given the millions upon millions (of other peoples money) that these games take to create, and the development process involved, the wonder is that things work out, even as well as they do.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Well tes single player doesn't have pvp.

    So they need a pvp model.

    In my opinion there's only 2 worth copying daoc and eve.

    I suppose they could have made some sort of pve heaven where you voluntarily flag yourself to get pvped (or lol pickpocketed who the hell is going to voluntarily flag that on)

    Or they could have shoved some token mini game shite in like all the wow clones.

    I wouldn't play the last two.

    Who did DAoC or Eve copy?

    That's one thing that frustrates me so much in the MMO industry.  MMO's are too busy asking themselves who should we copy.  Did you ever figure that maybe they could've came up with something that no one else has done.  Why does it have to copy something to be successful?

    One of the reasons is all of the risks involved.  First, in designing, then in balancing and then in coding something new.  At each point of the development cycle, you run the risk of delays. Thats especially true with new things.  Delays lead to missed mile stones.

    Missed mile stones lead to investor/publisher panic.  Which leads to cut features, and increased pressure on the Dev teams.  Increased pressure tends to lead to more mistakes, thus more delays.  Its a NASTY feed back loop.

    Copying something else, sides steps some of the above, but adds in the howls about clones of this, that, or the other.

    Given the millions upon millions (of other peoples money) that these games take to create, and the development process involved, the wonder is that things work out, even as well as they do.

    I agree to a degree.  Even though they are coping someone they still have to program from scratch to some extent.  They usually try to do unique classes so balancing is different as well.  I would say that it's considered a risk in the MMO market to do something different but the way things have been going lately, I'd say it's no more risky than making something that didn't copy everyone else.  You just can't recreate trends.

    It is a wonder things work out as well as they do for some games.  People give GW2 a hard time, and it did have it's short comings, but ESO would be so lucky to have a RvR to work as good as GW2.  At least GW2 has a head start and with time they could do great things.

    People keep remembering what they enjoyed from other MMOs and want to see it in other games but rarely do they realize that one of the aspects they fount so enjoyable was it hadn't been done before.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by deakon

    Yes your clearly not trying to put words into anyones mouth. / end sarcasm

    Truth is I played DAoC for less than a month and by the time i played it, it was very dated, I didnt get into mmo's until 2004, I've been playing tes games from 2002 (and have played all the previous ones since), faction locked areas does not go against tes as long as there is an explanation in the lore (which there is), same as dragons flying around wasnt a part of any tes game until 5, and oblivion gates popping up randomly wasnt in any apart from 4.

    If you feel that there should be no spin off tes games, fine, dont play them, there will still be tes6 to look forward to. Feel free to spout YOUR opinion all you want but don't expect to make out your opinion speaks for every tes fan and then get all defensive because you get called up on it by a tes fan that doesnt agree.

    If you knew nothing of the game, would you have expected (or wanted) faction locks?

    Expected? Nope. Wanted? After gw2 and swtor, yes

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    If you knew nothing of the game, would you have expected (or wanted) faction locks?

    Expected? Nope. Wanted? After gw2 and swtor, yes

    Good.  This conversation is going well so far, lets see if we can keep it up.

    What about mixing factions bothers you -  I heard it breaks immersion or takes away from faction pride, is this the case for you?

    I could understand racial splits in swtor.  The sith would most likely not be a jedi, it is supported in their lore.  I think they did semi-okay job by mixing them by legacy, it keeps the numbers down.  Having a racial split (in the beginning) didn't bother me in SWTOR.  I haven't really played since they started mixing so I don't know how I would feel about seeing a bunch of sith jedi.  I'm a loremonger so most likely it would've bothered me but I don't think it would've ruined the game.

    One thing that bugs me about GW2 is there is no reason why these races are fighting each other.  They are 'aware' that they are playing a game and from a different server.  That kind of breaks immersion for me.  If I was them I would've said something like there are different dimensions and they are battling each other rather than another server.  I think faction pride was ruined by allowing free transfers.  The races didn't bother me in sPvP or WvW, from a distance and with a helmet you can't really tell anyways.  I respect if you feel different but I'm not sure if racial mixing is the cause of GW2 shortcomings.

    Most of the visual aspects of characters comes from armor.  So if there was 3 houses (open faction) but each house had their own designs for armor, would that satisfy any atheistic issues you have or is it just the principle?
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Lol "me and my team of developers"
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member


    Originally posted by sapphen

    Originally posted by deakon

    Originally posted by sapphen If you knew nothing of the game, would you have expected (or wanted) faction locks?
    Expected? Nope. Wanted? After gw2 and swtor, yes
    Good.  This conversation is going well so far, lets see if we can keep it up. What about mixing factions bothers you -  I heard it breaks immersion or takes away from faction pride, is this the case for you? I could understand racial splits in swtor.  The sith would most likely not be a jedi, it is supported in their lore.  I think they did semi-okay job by mixing them by legacy, it keeps the numbers down.  Having a racial split (in the beginning) didn't bother me in SWTOR.  I haven't really played since they started mixing so I don't know how I would feel about seeing a bunch of sith jedi.  I'm a loremonger so most likely it would've bothered me but I don't think it would've ruined the game. One thing that bugs me about GW2 is there is no reason why these races are fighting each other.  They are 'aware' that they are playing a game and from a different server.  That kind of breaks immersion for me.  If I was them I would've said something like there are different dimensions and they are battling each other rather than another server.  I think faction pride was ruined by allowing free transfers.  The races didn't bother me in sPvP or WvW, from a distance and with a helmet you can't really tell anyways.  I respect if you feel different but I'm not sure if racial mixing is the cause of GW2 shortcomings. Most of the visual aspects of characters comes from armor.  So if there was 3 houses (open faction) but each house had their own designs for armor, would that satisfy any atheistic issues you have or is it just the principle?

    Tbh my problem with GW2 is pretty much that, yes there is no reason what so ever for the war, it just feels tacked on, but on top of that "I'm fighting for black citadel!" but so is the charr fighting against me etc.....and why are we fighting again? And thats without mentioning the lack of progression. It almost made it feel arcade like, a pointless "war" for....well....points.

     

    SWTOR I didn't buy for the pvp, I know full well going in that I was getting a pve game, in fact I was surprised at how much i enjoyed their instanced pvp tbh, the problem I had with SWTOR was lack of end game combined with a lack of re playability, it wasn't as bad when rolling the opposite faction (due to the side quests being different), but it still involved going to the same places and killing the same stuff just in a slightly different order.


    IMHO TESO is resolving those issues but also adding some of the things i enjoyed about both those titles (story, no tagging, dynamic events, etc) but in an ip I've loved for over a decade.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ikarrian

    My concerns are... The "Haters" if they whine enough, like they usually do. It can cause Zenimax to make bad descision and cause more harm then good to the game.

    But I hope it doesnt get to that.

    You have a good point.Hopefully Matt Firor will hold true to his initial vision for the game...despite the incessant whining from some.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf
    Originally posted by ikarrian

    My concerns are... The "Haters" if they whine enough, like they usually do. It can cause Zenimax to make bad descision and cause more harm then good to the game.

    But I hope it doesnt get to that.

    You have a good point.Hopefully Matt Firor will hold true to his initial vision for the game...despite the incessant whining from some.

    This is my only concern also...

    image
  • CawickengCawickeng BrisbanePosts: 122Member
    Is this game going to be free to play/subscription based or what?
  • MoMalikMoMalik Tecumseh, ONPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Cawickeng
    Is this game going to be free to play/subscription based or what?

    Id expect Subscribtion based with a box price as well. However, they have yet to announce this info yet, so i'd just check out their Website or Facebook every now-and-then to see if they updated it. 

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf
    Originally posted by ikarrian

    My concerns are... The "Haters" if they whine enough, like they usually do. It can cause Zenimax to make bad descision and cause more harm then good to the game.

    But I hope it doesnt get to that.

    You have a good point.Hopefully Matt Firor will hold true to his initial vision for the game...despite the incessant whining from some.

    One mans "incessant whining" is another man's heartfelt criticism.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Cawickeng
    Is this game going to be free to play/subscription based or what?

    I think they will go sub tbh, having an ip like tes (skyrim sold over 10 million), its got to be tempting to say the least

  • RukushinRukushin Jackson, NJPosts: 82Member Common
    I am more than willing to pay a sub fee as long as the content is constantly updated and a return to GM/Dev run Dynamic Events liek in a recent article I read today on the main page of this site. Dynamic Events allow me to actually know in the back of my head "Ok this is cool my money is actually paying someones salary to act out this NPC not in some pre-scripted formatted dialog but actually intuitive conversation from another homo sapien on the other side.
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