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What does TESO offer that GW2 does not?

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,981Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PongLenis

    I could sit here and list them off allday but I will say one important one and leave it at that.

    Meaningful PvP... buh bye.

    I always wonder what people mean by that term, what makes the PVP in TESO meaningful to you?

    Are there large consequences for losing, like in EVE or DFUW, where you lose your ship or gear if you die?

    Or is it more like DAOC where you gain access to Darkness Falls type dungeon to fight for, special skill points for PVP (I did read they will have this), or something else?

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Skeeter50
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    endgame

    real pvp progression

    your enemies don't look the same as your allies

    trinity

    a game engine that allows more than 50 player fights without melting your computer

    (hopefully) the pve zones won't be empty due to the mega-server tech

     

    But at the moment we know very little about the game. I'm refusing to get hyped until I actually play it for a while. I'm very cautious after the GW2 disaster.

    Dude, they say no trinity....I said "Nooooooo ahhhhhhhh"! Does sound like gw2, really sad at this moment.

    From zams hands on

    "the Holy Trinity is alive and well in The Elder Scrolls Online"

    did they add in an aggro mechanic then? another one i found

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-04-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-leaked-detailed

    That mechanic aims to ruffle the healer/tank/damage MMO trinity, but those classes appear to generally be intact. There's no aggro table in The Elder Scrolls Online, which means an enemy is just as likely to attack you for picking your nose as it is the warrior smacking it in the face.

    Not sure how you can really consider it the Holy Trinity with no aggro.. curious how the tanking role would work then.

     They could possibly do something positionally.  I always thought that if there were a dedicated healer and a couple more abilities, the Guardian in GW2 could be a good tank.  I think if you have collision detection and combat like TERA or GW2 where if you are in front of an attack you will get hit, then positional tanking could be interesting.  Where the goal of tanking isn't holding aggro, but making sure you are between the attacking mob and everyone else.  This could have worked interestingly in GW2 I think with dedicated healing classes (I'm no saying they should have done this, just that they could have if they had chosen to use trinity mechanics with the combat they have).  I think tanking with no aggro mechanics could be interesting (the the emphasis on could).

    Or it could have changed between eurogamers article in may (when the game was tab target/hotkey based with no agro) and zam's hands on in october (when they changed the combat mechanics to be reticle based)

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    I don't understand why people are so upset over GW2 :D Are people getting more and more naive on these forums? People hype GW2 on this forum like crazy then start to just hate it. Now again people praise this TES game and for some reason believe that it will do everything better than GW2. GW2 apparently did everything wrong and now it's TES' time to get everything right?

    People said no trinity was cool. Now trinity is not cool. Do people on these boards change their opinions every 5 minutes?

     Part of it is that people don't always know what they want (though they may say they do) they just want something "different."  Then different happens and they don't like that different, they want something else different.  Some of that has to do with "what sounds good on paper" versus playing it and seeing how it works out in reality.  That was kind of how I felt about the trinity and lack of trinity in GW2.  I liked the idea primarily from the view of no more "lf1m need tank."  Then when I played, I didn't like how that actually played out in the game.  I do still like dynamic events over quest hubs, but that wasn't quite enough to keep me playing.  I don't really see ESO being my cup of tea either, but I hope those looking forward to it enjoy it.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Skeeter50
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    endgame

    real pvp progression

    your enemies don't look the same as your allies

    trinity

    a game engine that allows more than 50 player fights without melting your computer

    (hopefully) the pve zones won't be empty due to the mega-server tech

     

    But at the moment we know very little about the game. I'm refusing to get hyped until I actually play it for a while. I'm very cautious after the GW2 disaster.

    Dude, they say no trinity....I said "Nooooooo ahhhhhhhh"! Does sound like gw2, really sad at this moment.

    From zams hands on

    "the Holy Trinity is alive and well in The Elder Scrolls Online"

    did they add in an aggro mechanic then? another one i found

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-04-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-leaked-detailed

    That mechanic aims to ruffle the healer/tank/damage MMO trinity, but those classes appear to generally be intact. There's no aggro table in The Elder Scrolls Online, which means an enemy is just as likely to attack you for picking your nose as it is the warrior smacking it in the face.

    Not sure how you can really consider it the Holy Trinity with no aggro.. curious how the tanking role would work then.

     They could possibly do something positionally.  I always thought that if there were a dedicated healer and a couple more abilities, the Guardian in GW2 could be a good tank.  I think if you have collision detection and combat like TERA or GW2 where if you are in front of an attack you will get hit, then positional tanking could be interesting.  Where the goal of tanking isn't holding aggro, but making sure you are between the attacking mob and everyone else.  This could have worked interestingly in GW2 I think with dedicated healing classes (I'm no saying they should have done this, just that they could have if they had chosen to use trinity mechanics with the combat they have).  I think tanking with no aggro mechanics could be interesting (the the emphasis on could).

    Or it could have changed between eurogamers article in may (when the game was tab target/hotkey based with no agro) and zam's hands on in october (when they changed the combat mechanics to be reticle based)

     Could very well be.  I think it is most likely that they have simply changed their minds and put in aggro.  I was just trying to come up with a way that would make both articles accurate (both no aggro, and yet having a trinity system).

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Skeeter50
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    endgame

    real pvp progression

    your enemies don't look the same as your allies

    trinity

    a game engine that allows more than 50 player fights without melting your computer

    (hopefully) the pve zones won't be empty due to the mega-server tech

     

    But at the moment we know very little about the game. I'm refusing to get hyped until I actually play it for a while. I'm very cautious after the GW2 disaster.

    Dude, they say no trinity....I said "Nooooooo ahhhhhhhh"! Does sound like gw2, really sad at this moment.

    From zams hands on

    "the Holy Trinity is alive and well in The Elder Scrolls Online"

    did they add in an aggro mechanic then? another one i found

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-04-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-leaked-detailed

    That mechanic aims to ruffle the healer/tank/damage MMO trinity, but those classes appear to generally be intact. There's no aggro table in The Elder Scrolls Online, which means an enemy is just as likely to attack you for picking your nose as it is the warrior smacking it in the face.

    Not sure how you can really consider it the Holy Trinity with no aggro.. curious how the tanking role would work then.

     They could possibly do something positionally.  I always thought that if there were a dedicated healer and a couple more abilities, the Guardian in GW2 could be a good tank.  I think if you have collision detection and combat like TERA or GW2 where if you are in front of an attack you will get hit, then positional tanking could be interesting.  Where the goal of tanking isn't holding aggro, but making sure you are between the attacking mob and everyone else.  This could have worked interestingly in GW2 I think with dedicated healing classes (I'm no saying they should have done this, just that they could have if they had chosen to use trinity mechanics with the combat they have).  I think tanking with no aggro mechanics could be interesting (the the emphasis on could).

    Reading that info on the link has me a little worried. How do you keep a trinity without aggro controle? I hope they change that.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,904Member Uncommon

    If what this guy says is true, combat is a bit different.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Skeeter50
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    endgame

    real pvp progression

    your enemies don't look the same as your allies

    trinity

    a game engine that allows more than 50 player fights without melting your computer

    (hopefully) the pve zones won't be empty due to the mega-server tech

     

    But at the moment we know very little about the game. I'm refusing to get hyped until I actually play it for a while. I'm very cautious after the GW2 disaster.

    Dude, they say no trinity....I said "Nooooooo ahhhhhhhh"! Does sound like gw2, really sad at this moment.

    From zams hands on

    "the Holy Trinity is alive and well in The Elder Scrolls Online"

    did they add in an aggro mechanic then? another one i found

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-04-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-leaked-detailed

    That mechanic aims to ruffle the healer/tank/damage MMO trinity, but those classes appear to generally be intact. There's no aggro table in The Elder Scrolls Online, which means an enemy is just as likely to attack you for picking your nose as it is the warrior smacking it in the face.

    Not sure how you can really consider it the Holy Trinity with no aggro.. curious how the tanking role would work then.

     They could possibly do something positionally.  I always thought that if there were a dedicated healer and a couple more abilities, the Guardian in GW2 could be a good tank.  I think if you have collision detection and combat like TERA or GW2 where if you are in front of an attack you will get hit, then positional tanking could be interesting.  Where the goal of tanking isn't holding aggro, but making sure you are between the attacking mob and everyone else.  This could have worked interestingly in GW2 I think with dedicated healing classes (I'm no saying they should have done this, just that they could have if they had chosen to use trinity mechanics with the combat they have).  I think tanking with no aggro mechanics could be interesting (the the emphasis on could).

    Reading that info on the link has me a little worried. How do you keep a trinity without aggro controle? I hope they change that.

    A lot of the points in that article have since been proven incorrect, the entire combat system changed between that and the hands on in october, pets are now in the game, as is becoming a werewolf.

     

     

  • xArsonistxxArsonistx deustland, ARPosts: 31Member
    Everything. Gw2 is a good game for the 6-13 year old crowd I believe thats where the game prolly does best. For the rest of us its shit.
  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    I really enjoy GW2 but it does really lack character progression in PvE and PvP past lvl 30.  A more mature theme and consequences for my actions (treat me like an adult) which GW2 completely lacks.

     

    We will see, we can all hope for what we want at this point.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by xArsonistx
    Everything. Gw2 is a good game for the 6-13 year old crowd I believe thats where the game prolly does best. For the rest of us its shit.

    I don't think so because most of my guildmates playing the game have children older than that. Please restate - For you it is shit - I am 'one' of the rest of us and it is NOT shit to me - TYVM!!

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon

    Eurogamers is right... you cant be a vampire or werewolf. Although DEVS THEMSELVES said you will be able to have those - they called it "perks" to be a Vampire or a Werewolf in the FIRST TESO presentation video... but Eurogamers says no... so it must be true lol... whatever...

    Here - play it from 5'05''

    Way to go Eurogamers...!

    EDIT:

    "The Elder Scrolls Online is built on the HeroEngine - the same technology that powers Star Wars: The Old Republic."

    Which is not... Thanks again Eurogamers.

    image
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I really enjoy GW2 but it does really lack character progression in PvE and PvP past lvl 30.  A more mature theme and consequences for my actions (treat me like an adult) which GW2 completely lacks.

     

    We will see, we can all hope for what we want at this point.

    We have a lot of hand waving and assumptions about TESO that may or may not be true. Let us wait and see please.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Eurogamer are bloody HUGE wow fanbois by the way. (well except for the guest articles from RPS who are more into eve/perp/ps2)
  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,922Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I really enjoy GW2 but it does really lack character progression in PvE and PvP past lvl 30.  A more mature theme and consequences for my actions (treat me like an adult) which GW2 completely lacks.

     

    We will see, we can all hope for what we want at this point.

    I feel that the theme of GW2 is mature enough. Giant Dragon wanting to destroy the world, etc. The consequences part though has been lacking in many games the past few years. Even in Skyrim many "decisions" you made had no real world consequences, like choosing stormcloaks or imperials had little impact other than some npc changes.

    I feel the biggest thing that TESO has over GW2 is potentially character development. Which is lacking in GW2, you effectively can complete a character's skill template at level 30, the only development that remains is trait disbursement and gear acqusition (which isn't exactly difficult). In many ways, GW2 loaded the character progression on the front end too much and didn't evenly disburse the overall development experience well.

    TESO has a lot of potential right now, but we all know potential means nothing without delivery. TESO could become a more rounded game than GW2, or it could be completely lacking as well.

    The three faction pvp in cyrodil could turn out to be even more of a time waster than wvwvw in GW2. Split factions could turn out to be a complete failure if they go the easy route and mirror the PvE experience on all sides. The control scheme could be clunky, animations could be sloppy, etc.

    At this stage, there's too many what ifs.

  • xArsonistxxArsonistx deustland, ARPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by xArsonistx
    Everything. Gw2 is a good game for the 6-13 year old crowd I believe thats where the game prolly does best. For the rest of us its shit.

    I don't think so because most of my guildmates playing the game have children older than that. Please restate - For you it is shit - I am 'one' of the rest of us and it is NOT shit to me - TYVM!!

    yes and guilds of 500 at launch have  dwindled down to barely 10 online at night must be a great game.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    ESO if it's like other TES games will have lore implemented into the game in a way you can't avoid it.  In GW2, even reading the quests, you still don't get that "feeling" that you're in a story.  It's the same old, "go kill 10 pigs cuz i said so" mentality.  One thing that good games do is make you feel for the NPC.  "These pigs are uprooting my crops and my family is going to starve! Please help me, I'll pay you whatever I can!" That's the difference between lore-driven and quest-driven games
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,981Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xArsonistx
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by xArsonistx
    Everything. Gw2 is a good game for the 6-13 year old crowd I believe thats where the game prolly does best. For the rest of us its shit.

    I don't think so because most of my guildmates playing the game have children older than that. Please restate - For you it is shit - I am 'one' of the rest of us and it is NOT shit to me - TYVM!!

    yes and guilds of 500 at launch have  dwindled down to barely 10 online at night must be a great game.

    Do you really expect TESO to avoid the same fate 6 months after launch? I'll be surprised if it does.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,904Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Do you really expect TESO to avoid the same fate 6 months after launch? I'll be surprised if it does.

     

    IF PVE loses it's flair by then, I could see it happening, as PVPers are in shorter supply.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I want to like gw2, I admire some of the things it does like mostly dropping the wow gear carrot. But it just feels soulless and manufactured, its hard to explain, I think I would like it more if it was a bit rougher around the edges, not so tightly produced. I don't like wow either, for simmilar reasons, though wow is worse with its skinner box mechanics and raiders first mentality.
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    oh I dunno prolly loot. :) I would hope they stay away from the instanced dungeon thing, and the DR in TESO and actually learn from mmo history.

     

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,062Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    ESO if it's like other TES games will have lore implemented into the game in a way you can't avoid it.  In GW2, even reading the quests, you still don't get that "feeling" that you're in a story.  It's the same old, "go kill 10 pigs cuz i said so" mentality.  One thing that good games do is make you feel for the NPC.  "These pigs are uprooting my crops and my family is going to starve! Please help me, I'll pay you whatever I can!" That's the difference between lore-driven and quest-driven games

    I agree you never got the feeling you were in an actual story oir living breathing world. The same old "kill ten pigs" rubbish we have seen time and again. Now i know their isn't a single MMO out their that can't avoid that type of questing but GW2 takes it to a whole other level.

    Run around following the zerg crowd, tag mob and button mash the same two skills time and again is what GW2 is all about, it's dull as dish water. Even lotro with it's kill quests gives you a great feeling of being in middle earth and you know their are forces at hand going on else where in the world.

    Only good thing about GW2 is the graphics, thank god TESO hasn't followed GW2. And considering that both games went into development at the same time then ZeniMax have not been influence by anything ArenaNet have done.

    I really hope the GW2 fans stay in GW2.

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,062Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    oh I dunno prolly loot. :) I would hope they stay away from the instanced dungeon thing, and the DR in TESO and actually learn from mmo history.

     

    They have open and instanced dungeon but they have no dungeon scaling in the game at all.

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  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    oh I dunno prolly loot. :) I would hope they stay away from the instanced dungeon thing, and the DR in TESO and actually learn from mmo history.

     

    They have open and instanced dungeon but they have no dungeon scaling in the game at all.

    So what, the more people that go in, the easier it will be?  That sounds fundamentally boring.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    oh I dunno prolly loot. :) I would hope they stay away from the instanced dungeon thing, and the DR in TESO and actually learn from mmo history.

     

    They have open and instanced dungeon but they have no dungeon scaling in the game at all.

    Thats not true... actually the devs said: "you can go into a dungeon at low level and then return to the same dungeon at a later level and new parts of that dungeon would open up showing the consequences of what you did the first time you went there"

    So its kind of scaling. Even if you call it "phasing" is still a "scaling method".

    Of course we wont see stupid wild dogs kicking the crap out of you now that you have a high quality plate armor and way more powerful abilities like they did when you first logged in, but thats the stupid part about TES single player games... how can a wild dog be as dangerous now when I was dressed in rags? No one knows... still... in TES games everything scales which sometimes can be rather stupid. "Oh ok... now with training and experience in the field, a battle hardened warrior, fought dragons and vampires, saved the world from an invasion of nuclear one-legged marshmellows from hell, yet 30 years later, I still fear wild dogs like I did when I was 10... and... people have statues on me in their cities"

    image
  • LeucentLeucent Penticton, BCPosts: 2,371Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    oh I dunno prolly loot. :) I would hope they stay away from the instanced dungeon thing, and the DR in TESO and actually learn from mmo history.

     

    They have open and instanced dungeon but they have no dungeon scaling in the game at all.

    So what, the more people that go in, the easier it will be?  That sounds fundamentally boring.

    Ever go into Darkness Fallls in DAOC? Or any of the other dungeons from the original DAOC. If you did you wouldn t think they re fundamentaly boring.

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