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Perhaps this game requires too much grind after all

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  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye

    Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.

    Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.

    People play the game (not stick to it) because they finds it fun, in fact there is no sub and risk of falling behind in gear curve to hook them to the game, they play because they enjoy it, not rocket science.  You could equally ask why people in other mmorgs spend 4-16 hours a week dying over and over on boss fights, doing the same thing over and over and over until they rote memorise the moves.  If you took just that thing out of  those type of mmorgs - boss fights, those games would implode, in fact they would go ftp..

    Ofc people would reconsider if it was a sub game, sub games are from the dark ages, who on earth would pay £100 a year on subs when it has now been shown that you dont need obscene profits to run an AAA game.

     

    Be very interesting to know how many players have forked out over $100 on gems, in many instances I wouldnt be suprised if some players have spent over $200, some will deny they spent a dime, some others will brag, others will say "but I'm supporting Anet".  And the game isnt even 12 mths old yet.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye

    Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.

    Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.

    People play the game (not stick to it) because they finds it fun, in fact there is no sub and risk of falling behind in gear curve to hook them to the game, they play because they enjoy it, not rocket science.  You could equally ask why people in other mmorgs spend 4-16 hours a week dying over and over on boss fights, doing the same thing over and over and over until they rote memorise the moves.  If you took just that thing out of  those type of mmorgs - boss fights, those games would implode, in fact they would go ftp..

    Ofc people would reconsider if it was a sub game, sub games are from the dark ages, who on earth would pay £100 a year on subs when it has now been shown that you dont need obscene profits to run an AAA game.

     

    Be very interesting to know how many players have forked out over $100 on gems, in many instances I wouldnt be suprised if some players have spent over $200, some will deny they spent a dime, some others will brag, others will say "but I'm supporting Anet".  And the game isnt even 12 mths old yet.

    Thats not a sub, you are not forced to pay to continnue playing.  You could equally argue that about people who play Sub games but also use the stores or gold sellers couldnt you.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye

    Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.

    Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.

    People play the game (not stick to it) because they finds it fun, in fact there is no sub and risk of falling behind in gear curve to hook them to the game, they play because they enjoy it, not rocket science.  You could equally ask why people in other mmorgs spend 4-16 hours a week dying over and over on boss fights, doing the same thing over and over and over until they rote memorise the moves.  If you took just that thing out of  those type of mmorgs - boss fights, those games would implode, in fact they would go ftp..

    Ofc people would reconsider if it was a sub game, sub games are from the dark ages, who on earth would pay £100 a year on subs when it has now been shown that you dont need obscene profits to run an AAA game.

     

    Be very interesting to know how many players have forked out over $100 on gems, in many instances I wouldnt be suprised if some players have spent over $200, some will deny they spent a dime, some others will brag, others will say "but I'm supporting Anet".  And the game isnt even 12 mths old yet.

    Thats not a sub, you are not forced to pay to continnue playing.  You could equally argue that about people who play Sub games but also use the stores or gold sellers couldnt you.

    My point is, its costing players more to play a f2p than a subscription.  You can twist it up as much as you like to defend the model.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye

    Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.

    Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.

    - Fun PvP

    - Interesting zones with dynamic stories and lore to expore

    - Dungeons with a variety of appearances to obtain

    - A story to play through

     

    Bit of a stupid point there. Also if you simply mean 'what is there to do for PvE endgame' - you could replace GW2 with any MMO, and fractals / legendarys with any end game achievement and make the same point.

    'Take away the dungeons and raids from WoW and what has the game got? Nothing it's an empty shell!'

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye

    Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.

    Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.

    People play the game (not stick to it) because they finds it fun, in fact there is no sub and risk of falling behind in gear curve to hook them to the game, they play because they enjoy it, not rocket science.  You could equally ask why people in other mmorgs spend 4-16 hours a week dying over and over on boss fights, doing the same thing over and over and over until they rote memorise the moves.  If you took just that thing out of  those type of mmorgs - boss fights, those games would implode, in fact they would go ftp..

    Ofc people would reconsider if it was a sub game, sub games are from the dark ages, who on earth would pay £100 a year on subs when it has now been shown that you dont need obscene profits to run an AAA game.

     

    Be very interesting to know how many players have forked out over $100 on gems, in many instances I wouldnt be suprised if some players have spent over $200, some will deny they spent a dime, some others will brag, others will say "but I'm supporting Anet".  And the game isnt even 12 mths old yet.

    Thats not a sub, you are not forced to pay to continnue playing.  You could equally argue that about people who play Sub games but also use the stores or gold sellers couldnt you.

    My point is, its costing players more to play a f2p than a subscription.  You can twist it up as much as you like to defend the model.

    Edit.  The average GW2 player does not spend £100 a year.  Why are you ignoring the fact you can get 1-3 gold per hour in the game easily,  and just like everyone else you dont buy gems with cash you buy gems with gold? So what people exactly are you referring to that spends cash instead of the gold that they can use for nothing else - the extreme examples perhaps?

    If something nice comes into the shop I will probably buy with gold but I may pay for cash if I feel like supporting Anet.  Thats a world away from a game that forces you to pay £100 a year and worse presents a virtual world where you fall behind the gear curve if you drop out - a very manipulative model.

    Do you know anyone that spends £100 a year on gems?

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • ButregenyoButregenyo IstanbulPosts: 483Member
    lots of cry babies... There is no grind at all in gw2.. Considering the old school mmos. i remember calculating the number of creatures (tens of thousands) to kill for a single level up. and it was like %2,5 exp per day. Also there were games where an item is only dropped by a certain low level creature with %0.01 chance and we people had to grind for weeks to find it. (for example, cards in RO1)
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    Play a real Korean grinder all the way to cap for a change, that way you'll learn the meaning of the word grind. Grinding mobs for hours and hours on end for 1 or 2 percent of the xp required for another level. Those were the days, glad they're gone and I'm so glad GW2 is here now.

    It may not be THE game for everybody, but it's a great game.

    imageimage
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    I'm convinced that anybody that thinks GW2 is a grind didn't play any MMO's before WoW or just have a bad memory.  There is ZERO content* that requires grinding in GW2.  You have full access to the entire game witout needing to farm anything.  There is no running in circles killing mobs for hours, macroing to level up skills, long traveling routes, getting your butt kicked in PvP for weeks while getting PvP gear to complete, endgame raid dungeons that you spend 4 hours wiping on a single encounter for a sword drop that gets ninja looted, other players kill-stealing your quest mob so you have to keep waiting for it to respawn.  Crafting, exploring, puzzles and a ton of other activities that give a healthy amount of XP.  

    No, Gw2 is not a grind, far from it.

    *by content, I'm talking about dungeons, renown quests, dynamic events, dungeons, pvp maps, wvw, exploration, jumping puzzles, map completion, etc. If you choose to go for a legendary (which is not required to access anything in the game and is purely consmetic) and choose to label the game a grinder then you can call ANY mmo a grinder. To publicaly characterize the game as a grind becasuse of this is a false and misleading label.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,172Member Uncommon

    Personally, the minute I saw that there was a new tier of gear above exotic, I said to myself "This isn't what I signed up for."

    Though what I do find a little interesting is you can have a game like War-Z that promised many things and delivered none of them, and in response get destroyed by the gaming community.

    Then there is the double standard of Guild Wars 2 and Arenanet's "Manifesto" in which many of the things that they claimed and many of the goals that they set ended up simply being fallcies used to hype the game up.

    Make sure you don't read to much into this, I am in no way saying that Arenanet are as much of scumbags as Hammerpoint Interactive, but they are both guilty of lying to their playerbase, and that will never go away.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    I am not sure what to make of GW2.  It doesn't involve a grind because everything is simplified to the point of treating its customers/ consumers like children; yet that makes it so incredibly dull it feels like a grind.  
  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO

    Play a real Korean grinder all the way to cap for a change, that way you'll learn the meaning of the word grind. Grinding mobs for hours and hours on end for 1 or 2 percent of the xp required for another level. Those were the days, glad they're gone and I'm so glad GW2 is here now.

    It may not be THE game for everybody, but it's a great game.

    Yah, i cant believe some people want those back and evem praise them and call them...wait..."deep" lol

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    I bought full exotics for my thief for around 20gold once I hit level 80. I had 12 gold left over.

     

    Now, if I want I can grind out gold or karma to pick up something specific, but that is just if I want to. BIG difference.

     

    Need vs Want.  People should try to understand the difference.

    However the point is: if they are targetting the non-grinding crowd, why create a grind for any aspect of the game?

    because they aren't just targetting the non-grind crowd of course... they are trying to encourage all types of players to enjoy their game

    Which people enjoy the Legendary grind? I am willing to be they are below 1% of the current GW2 population.

    think you greatly underestimate how many people enjoy looking awsome in their MMOs:)

    I mean the desire to grind not the desire to look "awesome". I would be baffled if the majority wouldn't prefer that "looking awesome" would be as easy as getting some standard exotics.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye

    Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.

    Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.

    Not to many it isn't.  Even detractors have said they got their money's worth.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Technically, I've never gotten my money's worth in a sub game, GW2 wouldn't be any different.  Outside of fractuals (sic) and legendaries, the game is fun to play, that's all I care about.  Will I play it for years like I did WoW?  Maybe, maybe not, but I didn't enjoy half of the time I spent in that game anyway.

    EDIT: Never mind, apparently you're the same person who said GW2 players pay as much as they would a sub game, obviously I won't get anywhere with you with fancy concepts like logic.

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member

    all MMO's have grind LOL, if they did not they would not be MMO's they would be FPS's

    difference between a good MMO and a bad one is whether you enjoy the grind and how much thye disquise it. At least I can freeform gind in GW2 instead of following the crumb trail that other MMO's have. What I enjoy about GW2 is being able to wander at random and do whatever and suddenly discover I leveled 20 minutes earlier

     

    I miss DAoC

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    Personally, the minute I saw that there was a new tier of gear above exotic, I said to myself "This isn't what I signed up for."

    Though what I do find a little interesting is you can have a game like War-Z that promised many things and delivered none of them, and in response get destroyed by the gaming community.

    Then there is the double standard of Guild Wars 2 and Arenanet's "Manifesto" in which many of the things that they claimed and many of the goals that they set ended up simply being fallcies used to hype the game up.

    Make sure you don't read to much into this, I am in no way saying that Arenanet are as much of scumbags as Hammerpoint Interactive, but they are both guilty of lying to their playerbase, and that will never go away.

    If you actually bothered to look at the gear teirs, when you are taling 1-5% difference in your attributes, it doesn't affect your damage output/healing/blocks/etc, it really is no biggie. Also, they did say they were going to put this tier in, in the manifesto, so you must be speed reading or reading with blinders on.

     

    The double standard is on the players end, not the companies end. Ultimately, they need to make money to survive. Fans are a fickle bunch, though.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon

    They always said there was gonna bea tier above exotic. It was nothing new and no surprise to the people who really followed the game.

    Now, on the opposite side. If they ever bring in anything above Ascended, then there will be somethign to bitch about and even I won't be happy.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    Personally, the minute I saw that there was a new tier of gear above exotic, I said to myself "This isn't what I signed up for."

    Though what I do find a little interesting is you can have a game like War-Z that promised many things and delivered none of them, and in response get destroyed by the gaming community.

    Then there is the double standard of Guild Wars 2 and Arenanet's "Manifesto" in which many of the things that they claimed and many of the goals that they set ended up simply being fallcies used to hype the game up.

    Make sure you don't read to much into this, I am in no way saying that Arenanet are as much of scumbags as Hammerpoint Interactive, but they are both guilty of lying to their playerbase, and that will never go away.

    If you actually bothered to look at the gear teirs, when you are taling 1-5% difference in your attributes, it doesn't affect your damage output/healing/blocks/etc, it really is no biggie. Also, they did say they were going to put this tier in, in the manifesto, so you must be speed reading or reading with blinders on.

     

    The double standard is on the players end, not the companies end. Ultimately, they need to make money to survive. Fans are a fickle bunch, though.

    1-5% makes a pretty big difference to some people.

    Speaking of the manifesto, where did they say that DR would be used to prevent the grinding that they did not want anyone to do? Remember, they don't believe in grinding.

    And that's the wonderful thing about the manifesto. They can be completely vague and fill in the blanks later on. Great advertising campaign I'll give them that. +1 to their marketing team.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    Personally, the minute I saw that there was a new tier of gear above exotic, I said to myself "This isn't what I signed up for."

    Though what I do find a little interesting is you can have a game like War-Z that promised many things and delivered none of them, and in response get destroyed by the gaming community.

    Then there is the double standard of Guild Wars 2 and Arenanet's "Manifesto" in which many of the things that they claimed and many of the goals that they set ended up simply being fallcies used to hype the game up.

    Make sure you don't read to much into this, I am in no way saying that Arenanet are as much of scumbags as Hammerpoint Interactive, but they are both guilty of lying to their playerbase, and that will never go away.

    If you actually bothered to look at the gear teirs, when you are taling 1-5% difference in your attributes, it doesn't affect your damage output/healing/blocks/etc, it really is no biggie. Also, they did say they were going to put this tier in, in the manifesto, so you must be speed reading or reading with blinders on.

     

    The double standard is on the players end, not the companies end. Ultimately, they need to make money to survive. Fans are a fickle bunch, though.

    1-5% makes a pretty big difference to some people.

    Speaking of the manifesto, where did they say that DR would be used to prevent the grinding that they did not want anyone to do? Remember, they don't believe in grinding.

    And that's the wonderful thing about the manifesto. They can be completely vague and fill in the blanks later on. Great advertising campaign I'll give them that. +1 to their marketing team.

    Let me start to say that I'm against Ascended items.

    Exotic items were already on the grindy side (although with changes they became more accessbile) for max gear tier.

    Ascended items are grindier than exotics were and were really introduced to cater to a population GW2 will never cater while remaining GW2.

    About DR.

    For every activity to be equivalent, rewards have to be on par in terms of rewards taking into account difficulty and time required.

    If they aren't some activities will be prefered by a majority and then it becomes a question of doing stuff that may or may not be enjoyable vs getting more rewards or gimping yourself.

    DR is a system Arenanet uses because it acknowledge it will take time to get the reward/time and reward/difficulty right.

    This allows Arenanet to introduce things without the fear certain activities will become so much more attractive. It also protects new players and/or players unable to "farm" those activities while they were available.

    It is a bandaid and one can discuss how effective it is, but it makes sense, especially if coupled with reward boosts for less rewarding but fun activities.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    Personally, the minute I saw that there was a new tier of gear above exotic, I said to myself "This isn't what I signed up for."

    Though what I do find a little interesting is you can have a game like War-Z that promised many things and delivered none of them, and in response get destroyed by the gaming community.

    Then there is the double standard of Guild Wars 2 and Arenanet's "Manifesto" in which many of the things that they claimed and many of the goals that they set ended up simply being fallcies used to hype the game up.

    Make sure you don't read to much into this, I am in no way saying that Arenanet are as much of scumbags as Hammerpoint Interactive, but they are both guilty of lying to their playerbase, and that will never go away.

    If you actually bothered to look at the gear teirs, when you are taling 1-5% difference in your attributes, it doesn't affect your damage output/healing/blocks/etc, it really is no biggie. Also, they did say they were going to put this tier in, in the manifesto, so you must be speed reading or reading with blinders on.

     

    The double standard is on the players end, not the companies end. Ultimately, they need to make money to survive. Fans are a fickle bunch, though.

    1-5% makes a pretty big difference to some people.

    Speaking of the manifesto, where did they say that DR would be used to prevent the grinding that they did not want anyone to do? Remember, they don't believe in grinding.

    And that's the wonderful thing about the manifesto. They can be completely vague and fill in the blanks later on. Great advertising campaign I'll give them that. +1 to their marketing team.

    Considering that there are no real DPS checks in this game, and that the difference between exotic and ascended is less than 10 damage per second. Who are these people?

    This isn't like WoW or EQ2 tiers, where you will get a few extra thousand DPS from a tier upgrade. You are talking about upgrades of a few stat points, like 1-5. You lose far more stats if you forget to use food.

    The primary reason for getting ascended tier is for the fractal progression resists.

    If you were decked out in full exotic, and you came across a player in WvW with full exotic and ascended in every possible slot... the match would be decided by skill, not gear. No gear based progression games could claim the same.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    Personally, the minute I saw that there was a new tier of gear above exotic, I said to myself "This isn't what I signed up for."

    Though what I do find a little interesting is you can have a game like War-Z that promised many things and delivered none of them, and in response get destroyed by the gaming community.

    Then there is the double standard of Guild Wars 2 and Arenanet's "Manifesto" in which many of the things that they claimed and many of the goals that they set ended up simply being fallcies used to hype the game up.

    Make sure you don't read to much into this, I am in no way saying that Arenanet are as much of scumbags as Hammerpoint Interactive, but they are both guilty of lying to their playerbase, and that will never go away.

    If you actually bothered to look at the gear teirs, when you are taling 1-5% difference in your attributes, it doesn't affect your damage output/healing/blocks/etc, it really is no biggie. Also, they did say they were going to put this tier in, in the manifesto, so you must be speed reading or reading with blinders on.

     

    The double standard is on the players end, not the companies end. Ultimately, they need to make money to survive. Fans are a fickle bunch, though.

    1-5% makes a pretty big difference to some people.

    Speaking of the manifesto, where did they say that DR would be used to prevent the grinding that they did not want anyone to do? Remember, they don't believe in grinding.

    And that's the wonderful thing about the manifesto. They can be completely vague and fill in the blanks later on. Great advertising campaign I'll give them that. +1 to their marketing team.

    Considering that there are no real DPS checks in this game, and that the difference between exotic and ascended is less than 10 damage per second. Who are these people?

    This isn't like WoW or EQ2 tiers, where you will get a few extra thousand DPS from a tier upgrade. You are talking about upgrades of a few stat points, like 1-5. You lose far more stats if you forget to use food.

    The primary reason for getting ascended tier is for the fractal progression resists.

    If you were decked out in full exotic, and you came across a player in WvW with full exotic and ascended in every possible slot... the match would be decided by skill, not gear. No gear based progression games could claim the same.

    Anyone who left the game due to the absurdity of the situation I guess. Personally, I never left because of the stats, I left because they stuck everything into one dungeon and completely forgot WvW and other sections of the game. I guess they thought only people in dungeons want to progress?

    Right, then why the need for additional stats then? Agony alone could have been enough to introduce horizontal progression in dungeons. Curious decision.

    Great. But you can pretty much claim that a more skilled player will be a less skilled player in any kind of video game. Not exclusive to GW2 in the slightest.

    Hold on one second. I did like GW2. I just despise the state that WvW continues to be in because of lack of... I don't know... foresight. Plus until culling is 100% fixed it's just not worth it imo.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

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