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Three Way Split - The Biggest Problem...

Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

Having reviewed the posts on these forums about the various pro's and con's of ESO being the inheritor of TES lore and 'DAOC' gameplay, I can appreciate where the pro's are coming from.

I was focussed until recently on the lack of freedom to see all of the gameworld with one character with this setup, and until yesterday thought it the biggest issue...

... but it isn't...

It hit me like a truck lunchtime yesterday.

With three locked out factional areas - surely the devs have taken on the 'content locust' effect with both arms tied behind their backs!

In PvE terms, they are essentially trying to create THREE MMOs in one - and with 100% voiced NPCs too?

Now I am always prepared to give a game company the benefit of the doubt - but it is very difficult to see how the kind of player like me - who really likes to focus on a single main and who values the replayability of the PvE as much as the fun of the PvP - is going to have enough to do...

... is the game simply going to be that VAST?

If it is vast enough for this not to be a concern - is the PvE element going to be varied enough to be engaging medium to long term?

I must admit I find it difficult to accept that the game will be so big (in terms of the number of varied and interesting PvE 'things to do') that it is in-effect the size and scope of Morriwind, Oblivion AND Skyrim combined...

... that said - my hat would be off to them if they pull such a collossal feat off...

... but I wonder if it can be done...

«13

Comments

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,293Member Uncommon
    The biggest problem, maybe, maybe not, perhaps the biggest problem, is that if the whole PVP thing was taken out of the game, there would have been fewer complaints, after all, gladiatorial arenas are a part of the TES lore, so small scale PVP would have been in keeping with the Lore and avoided faction locking players into seperate parts of the map just because they want to play a certain race.image
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon

    Even if PvE areas are good and large enough despite the faction lock, they would've been better and larger without it.

    I think TESO is going to have the same problem TOR has: making one char per faction will be fun, but making alts of the same faction will be boring due to repeated content. And you have to focus on one faction to keep your guild mates, so...

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member

    I have raised this concern in another thread in response to people saying faction lock is great as you get 3 games in 1. I personally don't see it as 3 games in 1 but I do get why they might think that.

     

    And I agree, the problem with it I see is thw whole replayability factor. I tried to explain that being locked into faction is a problem because once you have completed all quests for that faction you really have no option but to repeat content. But if you have an open world without faction locks then you can either do 1 character per region or 3 characters per race but take them to other locations.

    i.e. If currently each faction has 50 quests and it takes 50 quests to level then the 2nd character for each faction will have to repeat content. So if you don't want to repeat content you will have to create a character for each faction. But if factions are not locked you just have 150 quests in the world and so you could create 3 characters from the same faction and do the normal 50 in your region, take your second character to the 2nd region and the 3rd to the 3rd.

    For me personally, as it seems to stand, My favorite 2 races are Orc and Breton. Both are in the same faction. So I am being forced not only to repeat content (unless there is so much you can level 2 characters from the same faction without repeating content) but, if I want to see the rest of the 60% of the continent then I have to choose a race I don't really like or want to play. That isn't a good thing.

     

  • bobfishbobfish SouthamptonPosts: 1,688Member

    Yes, TSO will be light on PvE content, just as DAoC was, SWTOR is and more still. Only WoW has managed to provide sufficient volume of content to keep players partially happy, but then they could afford to keep a massive development team going.

     

    Expect TSO's PvE to suffer post launch. You need to be playing this game for the PvP to stay with it long term.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I can think of 3 bigger problems

    1 mega server - the lack of community and responsibility it brings
    2 "replicating the single player experience in a mmo", I don't like "you are the hero" storyline in mmos, its just stupid, what does this replication mean, does it mean swtor instanced to hell and back shitfest
    3 the listen to the "dont take away my freedom" crowd to much. And we end up with a game where everyone can do everything, that Is too easy and feels pointless (e.g. gw2)
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Bobfish

    DAOC HAS FOURTY ONE DUNGEONS
  • MaxJacMaxJac Another Dimension, CAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    I have raised this concern in another thread in response to people saying faction lock is great as you get 3 games in 1. I personally don't see it as 3 games in 1 but I do get why they might think that.

     

    And I agree, the problem with it I see is thw whole replayability factor. I tried to explain that being locked into faction is a problem because once you have completed all quests for that faction you really have no option but to repeat content. But if you have an open world without faction locks then you can either do 1 character per region or 3 characters per race but take them to other locations.

    i.e. If currently each faction has 50 quests and it takes 50 quests to level then the 2nd character for each faction will have to repeat content. So if you don't want to repeat content you will have to create a character for each faction. But if factions are not locked you just have 150 quests in the world and so you could create 3 characters from the same faction and do the normal 50 in your region, take your second character to the 2nd region and the 3rd to the 3rd.

    For me personally, as it seems to stand, My favorite 2 races are Orc and Breton. Both are in the same faction. So I am being forced not only to repeat content (unless there is so much you can level 2 characters from the same faction without repeating content) but, if I want to see the rest of the 60% of the continent then I have to choose a race I don't really like or want to play. That isn't a good thing.

     

    Warhammer had different areas to level for each race. I don't know that it did or didn't work in the game and I suppose people could debate execution or practicality in a PvP game. It is just an observation, as I haven't considered it enough to have a stance.

  • QuaidenQuaiden Lubbock, TXPosts: 19Member

    Everytime I read one of these post I think to myself "they just don't get it" Here is why.

     

    I have spent 200+ hours in Skyrim, 300+ hours in Oblivion. Skyrim is going to be 1-to-1 scale in this game, meaning the area in the stand-a-lone RPG will be the same size as it is in the MMO. This means if I can spend 200+ hours in 1 or the 3 area's in 1 of my factions starting zones it would tend to suggest I could get 600+ hours into my complete starting zone. Then they have said Cyrodiil will be the size of 2 of the three starting zones. This would leave me to believe there will be over 1200+ hours of content in the zone before I even though PVP as they have stated several times there will be plenty of stuff to do if you don't want to PVP in order to help you faction.

    I say all of this because I just don't think any realizes how absolutely massive this game world is going to be. I was listening to an interview of one of the alpha testers and he said they spend over an hour just exploring 1 island on the map for the starting location and that island, when you looked at the map, was about the size of a very small pea.

     

    So to answer the OP, yes it is just that VAST. There will be what you see on the map, plus underground areas, plus inter-dimensional areas, plus PVP, plus an adventure zone we have not even seen yet, and all of this should be about 15x the size of Skyrim the game and them some.

  • VarthanderVarthander BarcelonaPosts: 471Member

    To be honest, for me each race of TES has its own atractive, so for me there is absolutely no problems in wich faction to side with, and to be honest.. if you cant find a race that likes you from the 3 of each one then its really a problem if you ask me.

    Still for what ive seen people seems to preffer a open world with no factions and pvp areas ( something like WvWvW i assume ) that would be nice too, im happy with any of those.

    image

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member

    My major conern(s) in regard to the three way splits are similar to what you touched on.  Will the content for each faction be enough (PVE wise).  If it is enough, will it be the same fixed path, or will there be numerous ways to progress through the content.  I fear that each faction could possibly only have one specific path of leveling.  This would make rerolling, for me at least, a boring affair (if on the same faction).  These concerns of mine are assumptions based on what has been released.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    Having reviewed the posts on these forums about the various pro's and con's of ESO being the inheritor of TES lore and 'DAOC' gameplay, I can appreciate where the pro's are coming from.

    I was focussed until recently on the lack of freedom to see all of the gameworld with one character with this setup, and until yesterday thought it the biggest issue...

    ... but it isn't...

    It hit me like a truck lunchtime yesterday.

    With three locked out factional areas - surely the devs have taken on the 'content locust' effect with both arms tied behind their backs!

    In PvE terms, they are essentially trying to create THREE MMOs in one - and with 100% voiced NPCs too?

    Now I am always prepared to give a game company the benefit of the doubt - but it is very difficult to see how the kind of player like me - who really likes to focus on a single main and who values the replayability of the PvE as much as the fun of the PvP - is going to have enough to do...

    ... is the game simply going to be that VAST?

    If it is vast enough for this not to be a concern - is the PvE element going to be varied enough to be engaging medium to long term?

    I must admit I find it difficult to accept that the game will be so big (in terms of the number of varied and interesting PvE 'things to do') that it is in-effect the size and scope of Morriwind, Oblivion AND Skyrim combined...

    ... that said - my hat would be off to them if they pull such a collossal feat off...

    ... but I wonder if it can be done...

    Every new and upcoming MMORPG in the past several years has claimed to fix these problems, but none has. Not even GW2, who claimed that because of level scaling and always changing DE's, max level characters will always have something to do, failed in this regard. The only way to pump out enough developer made content, as SWTOR has shown us, to last even 1 month is to bombard us with mostly "side quests" or chores as I like to call them. Those aren't even worth doing or mentioning, much less worth spending money on. What I liked about TES series is that even the side quests felt like they belonged in  that world and they felt like something our character might actually do. So no, I don't think each faction will have 1 entire MMO's worth of content, thus giving us 3 games. I think it'll give us enough content to hit max level, much the same way as WoW does with 1 starting zone per race and offering 2, maybe 3 different level paths. I bet ESO will have only 3 unique leveling paths, 1 for each faction, and it'll take no longer than any other themepark to complete that content and hit max level. I also think that most of the content we complete won't be worthy of our time or believable for a "hero" to do.

    Which is why I think if Zenimax isn't going to emmulate TES series features and mechanics, including the way content is done, it isn't even worth wasting the money creating the game. All we'll see 2-4 weeks after release is people talking about how they're bored, with nothing to do, and RvR isn't what they thought it'd be, just like people said the same thing about GW2's RvR after a few weeks of playing it, despite all the fans clamouring for it and hyping that feature up.

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Quaiden

    Everytime I read one of these post I think to myself "they just don't get it" Here is why.

     

    I have spent 200+ hours in Skyrim, 300+ hours in Oblivion. Skyrim is going to be 1-to-1 scale in this game, meaning the area in the stand-a-lone RPG will be the same size as it is in the MMO. This means if I can spend 200+ hours in 1 or the 3 area's in 1 of my factions starting zones it would tend to suggest I could get 600+ hours into my complete starting zone. Then they have said Cyrodiil will be the size of 2 of the three starting zones. This would leave me to believe there will be over 1200+ hours of content in the zone before I even though PVP as they have stated several times there will be plenty of stuff to do if you don't want to PVP in order to help you faction.

    I say all of this because I just don't think any realizes how absolutely massive this game world is going to be. I was listening to an interview of one of the alpha testers and he said they spend over an hour just exploring 1 island on the map for the starting location and that island, when you looked at the map, was about the size of a very small pea.

     

    So to answer the OP, yes it is just that VAST. There will be what you see on the map, plus underground areas, plus inter-dimensional areas, plus PVP, plus an adventure zone we have not even seen yet, and all of this should be about 15x the size of Skyrim the game and them some.

    Does your opinion change any if each zone is linear so that you will outlevel certain parts of the world? I could return to plces in Skyrim and still have something to do but from the sounds of their linear progression that might not be the case in TESO.

    I guess it depends on just how much content there is and if their vision on the game is "level 50 is where the game starts because you get to PvP" or "level 50 is where the game starts because there is still so much to do in both PvE and PvP".

  • AngztAngzt berlinPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    Having reviewed the posts on these forums about the various pro's and con's of ESO being the inheritor of TES lore and 'DAOC' gameplay, I can appreciate where the pro's are coming from.

    I was focussed until recently on the lack of freedom to see all of the gameworld with one character with this setup, and until yesterday thought it the biggest issue...

    ... but it isn't...

    It hit me like a truck lunchtime yesterday.

    With three locked out factional areas - surely the devs have taken on the 'content locust' effect with both arms tied behind their backs!

    In PvE terms, they are essentially trying to create THREE MMOs in one - and with 100% voiced NPCs too?

    Now I am always prepared to give a game company the benefit of the doubt - but it is very difficult to see how the kind of player like me - who really likes to focus on a single main and who values the replayability of the PvE as much as the fun of the PvP - is going to have enough to do...

    ... is the game simply going to be that VAST?

    If it is vast enough for this not to be a concern - is the PvE element going to be varied enough to be engaging medium to long term?

    I must admit I find it difficult to accept that the game will be so big (in terms of the number of varied and interesting PvE 'things to do') that it is in-effect the size and scope of Morriwind, Oblivion AND Skyrim combined...

    ... that said - my hat would be off to them if they pull such a collossal feat off...

    ... but I wonder if it can be done...

    basically that's what every mmo does.

     

    you do not see the "story content" of the elves in WoW, unless you play em, you do not see the storry content of the UD in WoW, unless... yes unless you play em.

     

    you wanna tell me wow is like 8 games in one because you wont see the content made for the specific races?

    think about it - that's just the way it is. never been different. games seriously suck if you have ONE story for ALLLLLL races ingame. 

    "believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid… and i did it anyway!"

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by bobfish

    Yes, TSO will be light on PvE content, just as DAoC was, SWTOR is and more still. Only WoW has managed to provide sufficient volume of content to keep players partially happy, but then they could afford to keep a massive development team going.

     

    Expect TSO's PvE to suffer post launch. You need to be playing this game for the PvP to stay with it long term.

    DAoC was a completely different game though. In DAoC, you didn't need quest content, because everyone grouped up and grinded open world spawns, dungeons, and battlegrounds for xp. People also liked doing that. But in todays market, people don't play 3-6 hours a day, nor are they willing to wait 20 minutes or so for a group. So developers have to make "quests," which are really just another name for chores, with your token main story to help guide you through each zone. 

  • QuaidenQuaiden Lubbock, TXPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Quaiden

    Everytime I read one of these post I think to myself "they just don't get it" Here is why.

     

    I have spent 200+ hours in Skyrim, 300+ hours in Oblivion. Skyrim is going to be 1-to-1 scale in this game, meaning the area in the stand-a-lone RPG will be the same size as it is in the MMO. This means if I can spend 200+ hours in 1 or the 3 area's in 1 of my factions starting zones it would tend to suggest I could get 600+ hours into my complete starting zone. Then they have said Cyrodiil will be the size of 2 of the three starting zones. This would leave me to believe there will be over 1200+ hours of content in the zone before I even though PVP as they have stated several times there will be plenty of stuff to do if you don't want to PVP in order to help you faction.

    I say all of this because I just don't think any realizes how absolutely massive this game world is going to be. I was listening to an interview of one of the alpha testers and he said they spend over an hour just exploring 1 island on the map for the starting location and that island, when you looked at the map, was about the size of a very small pea.

     

    So to answer the OP, yes it is just that VAST. There will be what you see on the map, plus underground areas, plus inter-dimensional areas, plus PVP, plus an adventure zone we have not even seen yet, and all of this should be about 15x the size of Skyrim the game and them some.

    Does your opinion change any if each zone is linear so that you will outlevel certain parts of the world? I could return to plces in Skyrim and still have something to do but from the sounds of their linear progression that might not be the case in TESO.

    I guess it depends on just how much content there is and if their vision on the game is "level 50 is where the game starts because you get to PvP" or "level 50 is where the game starts because there is still so much to do in both PvE and PvP".

    No, I don't think my opinion changes any, at least right now, because we have no idea what their idea of leveling is going to be like, is 50 going to be SO much more powerful than 10 or will you just have so many more abilities and specializations to choose from? We don't know. IF the majority of the game is going to really open up at 50 how fast will we progress? They have also stated we will be able to continue to advance once we hit 50, so what is that going to be like. I just think this game is going to be so massive we are going to have plenty to do, to get more specific we will need more information.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Quaiden

    Everytime I read one of these post I think to myself "they just don't get it" Here is why.

     

    I have spent 200+ hours in Skyrim, 300+ hours in Oblivion. Skyrim is going to be 1-to-1 scale in this game, meaning the area in the stand-a-lone RPG will be the same size as it is in the MMO. This means if I can spend 200+ hours in 1 or the 3 area's in 1 of my factions starting zones it would tend to suggest I could get 600+ hours into my complete starting zone. Then they have said Cyrodiil will be the size of 2 of the three starting zones. This would leave me to believe there will be over 1200+ hours of content in the zone before I even though PVP as they have stated several times there will be plenty of stuff to do if you don't want to PVP in order to help you faction.

    I say all of this because I just don't think any realizes how absolutely massive this game world is going to be. I was listening to an interview of one of the alpha testers and he said they spend over an hour just exploring 1 island on the map for the starting location and that island, when you looked at the map, was about the size of a very small pea.

     

    So to answer the OP, yes it is just that VAST. There will be what you see on the map, plus underground areas, plus inter-dimensional areas, plus PVP, plus an adventure zone we have not even seen yet, and all of this should be about 15x the size of Skyrim the game and them some.

    And you truly believe that Zenimax, who has already watered down or ommitted features that they believe won't fit well in the MMO landscape is going to provide you with enough things to do per zone to get that 200+ hours of playtime? I ask, what did you do in those games to wrack up that many hours, and then I ask if you think you'll be able to do those same things in a MMORPG? Most people I hear that say they spend that many hours in the single player version do so by exploring every inch, delving into every dungeon, completing every quest, decorating and buying many houses, and maxing out all the skills and even rerolling characters and doing it all again. I think ESO won't have nearly the same freedom, and will be guided like all the other themeparks, thus reducing time spent per zone to something we're all used to. If not, people will complain the game is grindy and it takes too long to reach max level.

  • QuaidenQuaiden Lubbock, TXPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Quaiden

    Everytime I read one of these post I think to myself "they just don't get it" Here is why.

     

    I have spent 200+ hours in Skyrim, 300+ hours in Oblivion. Skyrim is going to be 1-to-1 scale in this game, meaning the area in the stand-a-lone RPG will be the same size as it is in the MMO. This means if I can spend 200+ hours in 1 or the 3 area's in 1 of my factions starting zones it would tend to suggest I could get 600+ hours into my complete starting zone. Then they have said Cyrodiil will be the size of 2 of the three starting zones. This would leave me to believe there will be over 1200+ hours of content in the zone before I even though PVP as they have stated several times there will be plenty of stuff to do if you don't want to PVP in order to help you faction.

    I say all of this because I just don't think any realizes how absolutely massive this game world is going to be. I was listening to an interview of one of the alpha testers and he said they spend over an hour just exploring 1 island on the map for the starting location and that island, when you looked at the map, was about the size of a very small pea.

     

    So to answer the OP, yes it is just that VAST. There will be what you see on the map, plus underground areas, plus inter-dimensional areas, plus PVP, plus an adventure zone we have not even seen yet, and all of this should be about 15x the size of Skyrim the game and them some.

    And you truly believe that Zenimax, who has already watered down or ommitted features that they believe won't fit well in the MMO landscape is going to provide you with enough things to do per zone to get that 200+ hours of playtime? I ask, what did you do in those games to wrack up that many hours, and then I ask if you think you'll be able to do those same things in a MMORPG? Most people I hear that say they spend that many hours in the single player version do so by exploring every inch, delving into every dungeon, completing every quest, decorating and buying many houses, and maxing out all the skills and even rerolling characters and doing it all again. I think ESO won't have nearly the same freedom, and will be guided like all the other themeparks, thus reducing time spent per zone to something we're all used to. If not, people will complain the game is grindy and it takes too long to reach max level.

    What have they watered down or omitted that is going to be completely game changing for you? Every Elder Scrolls game has been different from the last in the way the machanics work. This is also not a single player RPG but they did say they first of all want this to be an Elder Scrolls game and second and mmo. With as little information as wel have at this point I am not sure where everyone's doubt is coming from. I have realistic expectations. I am not expectiong Skyrim online or the next WOW killer. I am expecting an TES game which I can play with friends with an massive, dynamic PVP zone. I think they are on the right track but I am not going to shart taking aim at thier knees to shoot their feet from underthem just becuse I don't agree with everything they have said, just because there is so much they have NOT said and could completely change our opinions. I am just trying to stay positive and interested until we know more. I just hope I can get my hands on this as the only think that I completely miss in the single player games is being able to interact with my friends.

     

    Sorry if that was a little rambling in nature.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Where this weird idea that daoc was light on pve content come from?

    Daoc had a huge world, at least 3 times the size of any modern mmo e.g. gw2, vanilla rift, swtor, tsw, Aoc. Hell in the case of tsw and swtor probably approaching 10 times the size.
  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Quaiden
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Quaiden

    Everytime I read one of these post I think to myself "they just don't get it" Here is why.

     

    I have spent 200+ hours in Skyrim, 300+ hours in Oblivion. Skyrim is going to be 1-to-1 scale in this game, meaning the area in the stand-a-lone RPG will be the same size as it is in the MMO. This means if I can spend 200+ hours in 1 or the 3 area's in 1 of my factions starting zones it would tend to suggest I could get 600+ hours into my complete starting zone. Then they have said Cyrodiil will be the size of 2 of the three starting zones. This would leave me to believe there will be over 1200+ hours of content in the zone before I even though PVP as they have stated several times there will be plenty of stuff to do if you don't want to PVP in order to help you faction.

    I say all of this because I just don't think any realizes how absolutely massive this game world is going to be. I was listening to an interview of one of the alpha testers and he said they spend over an hour just exploring 1 island on the map for the starting location and that island, when you looked at the map, was about the size of a very small pea.

     

    So to answer the OP, yes it is just that VAST. There will be what you see on the map, plus underground areas, plus inter-dimensional areas, plus PVP, plus an adventure zone we have not even seen yet, and all of this should be about 15x the size of Skyrim the game and them some.

    And you truly believe that Zenimax, who has already watered down or ommitted features that they believe won't fit well in the MMO landscape is going to provide you with enough things to do per zone to get that 200+ hours of playtime? I ask, what did you do in those games to wrack up that many hours, and then I ask if you think you'll be able to do those same things in a MMORPG? Most people I hear that say they spend that many hours in the single player version do so by exploring every inch, delving into every dungeon, completing every quest, decorating and buying many houses, and maxing out all the skills and even rerolling characters and doing it all again. I think ESO won't have nearly the same freedom, and will be guided like all the other themeparks, thus reducing time spent per zone to something we're all used to. If not, people will complain the game is grindy and it takes too long to reach max level.

    What have they watered down or omitted that is going to be completely game changing for you? Every Elder Scrolls game has been different from the last in the way the machanics work. This is also not a single player RPG but they did say they first of all want this to be an Elder Scrolls game and second and mmo. With as little information as wel have at this point I am not sure where everyone's doubt is coming from. I have realistic expectations. I am not expectiong Skyrim online or the next WOW killer. I am expecting an TES game which I can play with friends with an massive, dynamic PVP zone. I think they are on the right track but I am not going to shart taking aim at thier knees to shoot their feet from underthem just becuse I don't agree with everything they have said, just because there is so much they have NOT said and could completely change our opinions. I am just trying to stay positive and interested until we know more. I just hope I can get my hands on this as the only think that I completely miss in the single player games is being able to interact with my friends.

     

    Sorry if that was a little rambling in nature.

    Well, when it comes to popular IP's with well established series, I am a purist. In every TES game, there wasn't any classes. You could choose prebuilt skill sets, but you weren't limited to them. You could still pick and choose which skills you wanted to level up, and by using those skills, they became stronger. I mean skills such as block, blunt, destruction and etc. ESO is going with classes. I know how they said they're doing classes, so I'm not going to say it'll be as restrictive as WoW or anything, but I think it's still watered down compared to TES games. They're introducing GW2 hotbars and elite skills, not to mention a soft target lock. All of which IMO is watered down from the combat in the TES games. They're introducing public quests and a person who played the alpha version said there are quest hubs like WoW, which is also watered down from TES games, which doesn't give you any indication of who might have quests for you to do. 

    Of course, the game isn't near release yet, things can change, and what works in practice might be better than how it sounds on paper, so I won't berate your optimism or anything. I'm negative towards the game because I'm a purist, but that doesn't mean the game can't be good by its own merit. I'm just the type that puts IP integrity over a fun game. Mainly because I think a Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online would be fun and fine the way it is. No need to change much. 

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Bobfish

    DAOC HAS FOURTY ONE DUNGEONS

    Yes - and 27 of them won't be available to my main... ENTIRELY because they won't let me run them...

    ... what's your point exactly?

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by angzt
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    Having reviewed the posts on these forums about the various pro's and con's of ESO being the inheritor of TES lore and 'DAOC' gameplay, I can appreciate where the pro's are coming from.

    I was focussed until recently on the lack of freedom to see all of the gameworld with one character with this setup, and until yesterday thought it the biggest issue...

    ... but it isn't...

    It hit me like a truck lunchtime yesterday.

    With three locked out factional areas - surely the devs have taken on the 'content locust' effect with both arms tied behind their backs!

    In PvE terms, they are essentially trying to create THREE MMOs in one - and with 100% voiced NPCs too?

    Now I am always prepared to give a game company the benefit of the doubt - but it is very difficult to see how the kind of player like me - who really likes to focus on a single main and who values the replayability of the PvE as much as the fun of the PvP - is going to have enough to do...

    ... is the game simply going to be that VAST?

    If it is vast enough for this not to be a concern - is the PvE element going to be varied enough to be engaging medium to long term?

    I must admit I find it difficult to accept that the game will be so big (in terms of the number of varied and interesting PvE 'things to do') that it is in-effect the size and scope of Morriwind, Oblivion AND Skyrim combined...

    ... that said - my hat would be off to them if they pull such a collossal feat off...

    ... but I wonder if it can be done...

    basically that's what every mmo does.

     

    you do not see the "story content" of the elves in WoW, unless you play em, you do not see the storry content of the UD in WoW, unless... yes unless you play em.

     

    you wanna tell me wow is like 8 games in one because you wont see the content made for the specific races?

    think about it - that's just the way it is. never been different. games seriously suck if you have ONE story for ALLLLLL races ingame. 

    The problem comes with the massive proportion of blocked content for each character, not that fact that character-exclusive content exists.

    Your arguement does not deal with the issue I raise in this regard.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    How many dungeons do you get to do in tsw, gw2 & swtor?
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Where this weird idea that daoc was light on pve content come from?

    Daoc had a huge world, at least 3 times the size of any modern mmo e.g. gw2, vanilla rift, swtor, tsw, Aoc. Hell in the case of tsw and swtor probably approaching 10 times the size.

    Beyond a certain point, it's not the size of the world , but the amount and quality of what fills it that's important...

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    How many dungeons do you get to do in tsw, gw2 & swtor?

    I can do at least 1 more raid in TSW then I can in TESO.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well yeah I would say daoc wins in that regard too. Give me realm wide raids and open dungeons over space bar pressing and glorified lobby game of sitting in a city queueing to go an instance any day.
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