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MMO with real challenging PVE combat?

ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon

Few friends and I are shooting the crap while watching the Super Bowl.  And we got onto the discussion of challenge in games.  All of us used to be in the same raid guild in EQ1 before SoL was out (when EQ was pretty hard), and we all were kind of reminiscing about the difficulty that mmo's used to have.  Eventually we started talking about current MMO's and not a single one of us can think of an MMO currently out where EVERY battle with mobs feels like a fight for your life.  Like you could die at any time, and you are truly in danger of your life.  

Is there anything out currently, or coming out soon, where every PVE fight you get into actually feels hard & challenging?  Strictly talking open world solo or small group content.  Not raiding or group dungeon runs.   I really miss that feeling of imminent danger that EQ1 had.

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    I can tell you what eve 1v1 feels like...

     

    you try to keep track of all you want to get done going in but as the fight carries on and you start to panic, you start forgetting things like overloading your weapons and are more worried about your range and transversal velocity...then when you die you realised you could've done it 100 times better.

     

     

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  • darker70darker70 stokePosts: 813Member
    Age of Wushu/Wulin best combat and most fun I've had especially in PVP in a long while.

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  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Hmmm should have specififed, but I was talking about PVE fights.  PvP pretty much always feels like a challenge, just the nature of the game.  I'll edit the orriginal post.
  • darker70darker70 stokePosts: 813Member
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Hmmm should have specififed, but I was talking about PVE fights.  PvP pretty much always feels like a challenge, just the nature of the game.  I'll edit the orriginal post.

    Well PVE is pretty damn good as well,there is no real kill a zillion rat type missions so you can be focussed on certain mobs and hone your skills,only took part in one major group PVE event which was a blast and I was on Russian servers as well !!

    The game is damn hard to pin down as it's very unique you just need to try it and make up your own mind, but if u like old kung fu movies and martial arts coupled with the plethora of  flying skills this could be your thang also being endorsed by Jet Li can't be bad.

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    challenging PvE outside very high-end raiding is something that has faded over the last decade.

     

    I got owned by a whelp in Lineage 2 badly. it seemed to do %dmg based on your health so i figured I'll go in with low hp and trick it. I had the whole walk back to think about why it was retarded...

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  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darker70
    Age of Wushu/Wulin best combat and most fun I've had especially in PVP in a long while.

    I actually play Wushu atm as it does indeed have some very fun PvP elements.  (I actually wrote a fairly long review of it on the site here)  But challenging PVE isn't one of the aspects of the game.  Never once have I been worried for my life in Wushu.  Even the dungeon's are fairly par for course for current MMO's, once you understand the mechanics they are fairly face roll-able.

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    Skyrim is quite challenging at parts.  There were quite a few times in skyrim where I was actually scared for my life.  I can only hope that TES is as challenging as skyrim was.  But I have to be honest and say that I have severe doubts that it will be.

     

  • MickleMickle Evansville, INPosts: 119Member Uncommon

    You could try the other old school game.

    ASHERON’S CALL

    http://ac.turbine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

     

    I used to have a blast playing that game.

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    I might, was just hoping for something with more updated graphics.  But that may be my only choice.

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    Other than possibly EVE no mmo is really that challenging anymore. It is all carebear content for the casuals today unfortunately.
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  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon

    The Secret World. cant stress this enough.

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  • TacBoyTacBoy Minneapolis, MNPosts: 139Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

    The Secret World. cant stress this enough.

    I can somewhat second this. I don't know if you feel like you may die in every fight, but no fight is a faceroll and many of them you aren't sure how it will end up. Aion is similar, actually.

    PvE was actually challenging in Darkfall. You had to stay on your toes.

    Beyond that, none I can think of, unfortunately.

     

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

    The Secret World. cant stress this enough.

    Ahh yea!  Now that's a good sugestion =)   There were definitly fights in TSW that I had to really take care of died fast lol.  I haven't played much TSW since the beta, I may have to download it and get back into it.

     

    It's really a shame that dev's seem to think that our brains are so small that challenge in a video game is beyond us....  =(

     

    This whole trend of trying to make us feel like "hero's" is getting to be a bit old.  I miss the days where every player was just an average Joe trying to make it in the big bad world.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Well as far as I know that takes away pretty much all themeparks.  Like others have stated about Eve, or some older games.  Ryzom comes to mind as well.  Even though you mentioned MMOs, I think the only newer game out that truly fits the bill you are looking for is Dark Souls.  That game will bring you to your knees while you simultaneously shake your fist at the sky screaming "Why!?!?!"

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  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    Heh this whole thread has gotten me reminiscing about the old days of EQ.  My first character ever in an MMO.  I was outside of Qeynos killing rats (one a time becuase 2 rats could kill me) when suddenly this big rat jumped on me and started beating my tail in.  I quickly high tailed it to the guards and watched as they slaughtered like 15 rats that were chasing after me.

     

    Ahhh I miss those days.

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by ragz45

    Few friends and I are shooting the crap while watching the Super Bowl.  And we got onto the discussion of challenge in games.  All of us used to be in the same raid guild in EQ1 before SoL was out (when EQ was pretty hard), and we all were kind of reminiscing about the difficulty that mmo's used to have.  Eventually we started talking about current MMO's and not a single one of us can think of an MMO currently out where EVERY battle with mobs feels like a fight for your life.  Like you could die at any time, and you are truly in danger of your life.  

    Is there anything out currently, or coming out soon, where every PVE fight you get into actually feels hard & challenging?  Strictly talking open world solo or small group content.  Not raiding or group dungeon runs.   I really miss that feeling of imminent danger that EQ1 had.

    Path of Exile.  image

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  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

    The Secret World. cant stress this enough.

    I found TSW PvE to be extremely easy actually up until the second zone in Transylvania (don't remember the name) where the difficulty just skyrocketed.  I'd say at that point it was pretty challenging and every pull was fairly exciting.  Dungeons weren't too hard either, even on the Nightmare modes.  Me and my buddy just did a tank/healer setup and AoEd everything down up until that point.

    To be honest I can't really think of a MMO with challenging PvE (beyond end-game raiding / dungeons) INCLUDING old school MMOs which I honestly consider anything but challenging (they were just gear check combat simulators with extremely slow repetitive combat).

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  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Originally posted by Nitth The Secret World. cant stress this enough.
    I found TSW PvE to be extremely easy actually up until the second zone in Transylvania (don't remember the name) where the difficulty just skyrocketed.  I'd say at that point it was pretty challenging and every pull was fairly exciting.  Dungeons weren't too hard either, even on the Nightmare modes.  Me and my buddy just did a tank/healer setup and AoEd everything down up until that point.

    That's because you duod ...

    I found doing the story quests quite challenging if you dont know the mechanics..
    some of the most challenging things in the game is where your forced to go it alone

    Gate keeper is also a great example.

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  • birkenbirken Fort Covinton, NYPosts: 122Member
    Vanguard Saga of Heroes U fight some of the 4 5 and 6 dot mobs even some of the 3 dot can take u out or make u work for it there alot of mobs that u think u can take till u hit them. I fought a mob for 25mins to take him down solo. not a group mob.
  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Originally posted by Nitth The Secret World. cant stress this enough.
    I found TSW PvE to be extremely easy actually up until the second zone in Transylvania (don't remember the name) where the difficulty just skyrocketed.  I'd say at that point it was pretty challenging and every pull was fairly exciting.  Dungeons weren't too hard either, even on the Nightmare modes.  Me and my buddy just did a tank/healer setup and AoEd everything down up until that point.

     

    That's because you duod ...

    I found doing the story quests quite challenging if you dont know the mechanics..
    some of the most challenging things in the game is where your forced to go it alone

    Gate keeper is also a great example.

    Well, there was plenty of times I was forced to solo.  The game has a lot of solo instances.  Granted it was slow because during the level up process I didn't have DPS trees fleshed out and my DPS gear wasn't up to par (stupid trinity!), but difficult?  Naah.

    Gatekeeper was a decent challenge.  Took a few tries to figure out the healer version on my own.

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  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Originally posted by Nitth

    The Secret World. cant stress this enough.

    Ahh yea!  Now that's a good sugestion =)   There were definitly fights in TSW that I had to really take care of died fast lol.  I haven't played much TSW since the beta, I may have to download it and get back into it.

    Experimenting with the weapons/deck mix can be a lot of fun -- Blue Mountains can be a pretty big leap in difficulty as well.  Dungeons mechanics really depend on a decent deck as well as good teamwork.  Overall, I think TSW has less handholding in many games, and is a lot of fun to boot..

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,664Member Uncommon

    I guess if you want a challenge, you should play single player games :D

    I would say GW1's PvE, which you can play solo, could be very challenging but that's all instanced. I would say this way it would be hardest MMO you could play solo. Once you turn up the difficulty to hardmode you can definitely die in a battle. Also when you die you get a Death Penalty which reduces your life and mana by a certain % up to a maximum of 60% when you will get your ass handed to you all the time (in hardmode you will get returned to town and would have "failed" :D)

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  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    I'd suggest Mabinogi, if you can get past the graphics that is (F2P).

    The PvE can be both easy and hard. The mixture of the combat system (a sort of rock paper scissor but with several additional options), the non-gear centric nature of the game, and the strength of the monsters, Mabinogi can be pretty hard at times. Even high level players can die from lower-end monsters (rarer of course, but not uncommon). Just for the sake of comparison, a newly created player will have about 60-80 HPs and the monsters in the first human town (where you begin as a human) has monsters that can hit you for 10-30 per hit, and can hit up to 3 times before you get knocked down (although they can be interrupted using basic melee skills like Defense and Counterattack if loaded in time).

    Haven't found any videos showcasing the combat in a way that would explain it well (besides videos covering the older combat version) so I'll try to explain briefly.

    For one there are no classes, you can have access to all skills but you will have to unlock the vast majority of them. Some are easy, some are pretty hard. Using melee strictly as an example, a new player will have access to Normal Attack, Smash, Defense, Counterattack, Windmill, Assault Slash. With the exception of Normal attack which are used simply by clicking on a monster, all skills must be loaded before using them. Loading time depends on the type of attack (most melee skills have loadout time of under 0.5 sec however some higher-end melee skills may have loadout time of 1.5 sec). Once the skill is loaded you can use it on a mob, but there's a catch. A normal attack will interrupt a Smash but will be blocked by Defense or Counterattack. Smash will overpower Defense but is vulnerable to Counterattacks, Counterattacks will block all melee attacks except for Windmill, Windmill will counter most melee attacks except the opponent will not be knocked back if he uses Defense (thus giving him the opportunity to hit you while you recover), Assault Slash is used on a knocked down opponent.

    Now add to this all the other unlockable melee skills, Archery, Magic, Alchemy, Fighter(Fist), Bard, Puppetry, Transformation skills and a few additional ones that can't quite be categorized and you get Mabinogi.

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  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member

    TERA has pretty good PvE combat. Granted regular enemies don't need a ton of strategy (unless you aggro them in groups), but BAMS are another realm entirely. They can be solo'd, but you need to be at the top of your game to do so. Even in groups they can be difficult.

    Plus in a day it'll be completely free, so the only thing you'll lose is a bit of time.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by darker70
    Age of Wushu/Wulin best combat and most fun I've had especially in PVP in a long while.

     It's visceral and decent, but not big on the "fun" factor.  Especially PvE, where it's a snoozefest.

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