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GW2 Dynamic Events ARE revolutionary, I can't wait till they are evolutionary!

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  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Todays kids thinks that the word revolution means something new that has never been seen before.

    Todays kids thinks that the word innovation means something new that has never been see before.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • darkblightdarkblight bel air, MDPosts: 54Member
    >Warhammer online dynamic events. 
  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,132Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darkblight
    >Warhammer online dynamic events. 

    yeah. Didn't you say this in another thread? Anyhow, I agree. GW2 dynamic events are superior to Warhammer's PQs.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Rayshe
    Originally posted by kzaske

    When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

    Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

    I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

    OK so its totally theirs because they changed the name.

     

    Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

     

    the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

    Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

    The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

    http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-12-23/20081223084659416,3.shtml

    SOE put out their dynamic event, which actually was dynamic and had lasting reprocussions on the game world about a decade before GW2.

    Can we all shut up about how great ANet is?  They didn't do what they described. The hated SOE had done what they described 10 years earlier.  The GW2 public quests are the same as the same thing as Warcraft public quests with a little more AI scripting and maybe more often result conditions.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Rayshe
    Originally posted by kzaske

    When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

    Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

    I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

    OK so its totally theirs because they changed the name.

     

    Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

     

    the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

    Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

    The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

    http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-12-23/20081223084659416,3.shtml

    SOE put out their dynamic event, which actually was dynamic and had lasting reprocussions on the game world about a decade before GW2.

    Can we all shut up about how great ANet is?  They didn't do what they described. The hated SOE had done what they described 10 years earlier.  The GW2 public quests are the same as the same thing as Warcraft public quests with a little more AI scripting and maybe more often result conditions.

    You mean what Anet described on the video I posted several times and it sound exactly like what is in the game?

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

    Look, even a thread from 2010.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/290515/GDC-Talk-Learn-More-About-GW2-Dynamic-Events.html

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Rayshe
    Originally posted by kzaske

    When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

    Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

    I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

    OK so its totally theirs because they changed the name.

     

    Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

     

    the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

    Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

    The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

    http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-12-23/20081223084659416,3.shtml

    SOE put out their dynamic event, which actually was dynamic and had lasting reprocussions on the game world about a decade before GW2.

    Can we all shut up about how great ANet is?  They didn't do what they described. The hated SOE had done what they described 10 years earlier.  The GW2 public quests are the same as the same thing as Warcraft public quests with a little more AI scripting and maybe more often result conditions.

    You mean what Anet described on the video I posted several times and it sound exactly like what is in the game?

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

    Look, even a thread from 2010.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/290515/GDC-Talk-Learn-More-About-GW2-Dynamic-Events.html

    Did you watch the video?  "Another important part about events is that players feel like events change the world, and events change the world in very dramatic different ways."  Turns out, every time I start a new character and go through the area, the centaurs were at the exact same state or reverting to the same starting state that they were in when the server went live.  This is the same thing that happens in Warhammer.

    So 10 years ago, we had the #1 western MMORPG release quest based content that allowed the players to change the world.  Now we have intricate multi-player quests that start with triggers (or timers) and have many steps, but essentially return to the world to the same starting point.

    The quests are better than the Warhammer ones, but they're still public quests, they don't change anything long term, and they sure as hell didn't keep me playing the game.

    It was possible that when running through the areas in Kunark in 2002, the dragons would be up.  Sometimes they would be dead.  (That was dynamic, having to anticipate a raid dragon chasing after you when trying to meet your group for some exping)  How is that any different from what ArenaNet did here, in regard to persistant change to the world?  At least with the game from 11 years ago, it was news when a dragon was slain - tell me the state of each of the dynamic events on your GW2 server.  You don't know.  Why?  Because you don't care.  And neither do I.

     

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Oh God.  More of this 'GW2 is revolutionary' idiocy.  If you enjoy the game then great, but it is derivative and generic.  There is nothing revolutionary about it.  
  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Oh God.  More of this 'GW2 is revolutionary' idiocy.  If you enjoy the game then great, but it is derivative and generic.  There is nothing revolutionary about it.  

     

    If you took the time to learn the word revoluionary means then you understand.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Oh God.  More of this 'GW2 is revolutionary' idiocy.  If you enjoy the game then great, but it is derivative and generic.  There is nothing revolutionary about it.  

     

    If you took the time to learn the word revoluionary means then you understand.

     GW2 is not revolutionary.  Theres a lot of patronising 'go learn something' posts here, but for clarity, taken from :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution

    The term revolution has also been used to denote great changes outside the political sphere. Such revolutions are usually recognized as having transformed in society, culture, philosophy and technology much more than political systems...

    So the question is does GW2 represent 'great change' ? Well it does not from a game mechanic perspective, it offers lots of improvements to pre-existing mmorg mechanics they have improved apon, thats evolution not revolution.

    Where you could argue that GW2 is being revolutionary is the AAA no subsciption model - that could indeed be revolutionary, but thats not what people are banging on about here. 

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Oh God.  More of this 'GW2 is revolutionary' idiocy.  If you enjoy the game then great, but it is derivative and generic.  There is nothing revolutionary about it.  

     

    If you took the time to learn the word revoluionary means then you understand.

     GW2 is not revolutionary.  Theres a lot of patronising 'go learn something' posts here, but for clarity, taken from :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution

    The term revolution has also been used to denote great changes outside the political sphere. Such revolutions are usually recognized as having transformed in society, culture, philosophy and technology much more than political systems...

    So the question is does GW2 represent 'great change' ? Well it does not from a game mechanic perspective, it offers lots of improvements to pre-existing mmorg mechanics they have improved apon, thats evolution not revolution.

    Where you could argue that GW2 is being revolutionary is the AAA no subsciption model - that could indeed be revolutionary, but thats not what people are banging on about here. 

    So changing the way people level and how they interact with players while leveling in a MMORPG isn't revolutionary in MMORPG realm?

    What about GW2 having one of the best physic engines of any MMORPG?

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Rayshe
    Originally posted by kzaske

    When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

    Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

    I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

    OK so its totally theirs because they changed the name.

     

    Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

     

    the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

    Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

    The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

    http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-12-23/20081223084659416,3.shtml

    SOE put out their dynamic event, which actually was dynamic and had lasting reprocussions on the game world about a decade before GW2.

    Can we all shut up about how great ANet is?  They didn't do what they described. The hated SOE had done what they described 10 years earlier.  The GW2 public quests are the same as the same thing as Warcraft public quests with a little more AI scripting and maybe more often result conditions.

    You mean what Anet described on the video I posted several times and it sound exactly like what is in the game?

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

    Look, even a thread from 2010.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/290515/GDC-Talk-Learn-More-About-GW2-Dynamic-Events.html

    Did you watch the video?  "Another important part about events is that players feel like events change the world, and events change the world in very dramatic different ways."  Turns out, every time I start a new character and go through the area, the centaurs were at the exact same state or reverting to the same starting state that they were in when the server went live.  This is the same thing that happens in Warhammer.

    So 10 years ago, we had the #1 western MMORPG release quest based content that allowed the players to change the world.  Now we have intricate multi-player quests that start with triggers (or timers) and have many steps, but essentially return to the world to the same starting point.

    The quests are better than the Warhammer ones, but they're still public quests, they don't change anything long term, and they sure as hell didn't keep me playing the game.

    It was possible that when running through the areas in Kunark in 2002, the dragons would be up.  Sometimes they would be dead.  (That was dynamic, having to anticipate a raid dragon chasing after you when trying to meet your group for some exping)  How is that any different from what ArenaNet did here, in regard to persistant change to the world?  At least with the game from 11 years ago, it was news when a dragon was slain - tell me the state of each of the dynamic events on your GW2 server.  You don't know.  Why?  Because you don't care.  And neither do I.

     

    Why would your new character know anything about your previous character?

    At least in GW2 you don't know what state it is in.

    In other games it is exactly the same all the time.

    Actually there are sites that track major meta events.

    More if you saw the video, they explain that the changes are not permanent and can be reverted,

    They also explain than when you beat the bandits the bandits disapear for a while in a traditonal quest game the bandits where there before, they are there while you doing it and they will be there after you finished the quest.

    MMORPGs don't track passage of time very well and it is insane to think that is possible currently or that will be possible any time soon.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Oh God.  More of this 'GW2 is revolutionary' idiocy.  If you enjoy the game then great, but it is derivative and generic.  There is nothing revolutionary about it.  

     

    If you took the time to learn the word revoluionary means then you understand.

     GW2 is not revolutionary.  Theres a lot of patronising 'go learn something' posts here, but for clarity, taken from :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution

    The term revolution has also been used to denote great changes outside the political sphere. Such revolutions are usually recognized as having transformed in society, culture, philosophy and technology much more than political systems...

    So the question is does GW2 represent 'great change' ? Well it does not from a game mechanic perspective, it offers lots of improvements to pre-existing mmorg mechanics they have improved apon, thats evolution not revolution.

    Where you could argue that GW2 is being revolutionary is the AAA no subsciption model - that could indeed be revolutionary, but thats not what people are banging on about here. 

     

    Yes it is a great change from the traditional quest based games to level to a purely Dynamic Event gameworld.

    If another another MMO has done this before then yes you have a point.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Torgrim, thats not great as in people thinks its great - great as a momentous evolutionary moment when there is a fundemental shift in the mmorg gaming world that rocks the foundations of mmorging to the core and becomes the template that all mainstream mmorgs aspire to. Gw2 is great (I'm a huge fan of gw1 & 2) but that's it. ( asside from the non sob model whic I personally believe is revilutionary)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Torgrim, thats not great as in people thinks its great - great as a momentous evolutionary moment when there is a fundemental shift in the mmorg gaming world that rocks the foundations of mmorging to the core and becomes the template that all mainstream mmorgs aspire to. Gw2 is great (I'm a huge fan of gw1 & 2) but that's it. ( asside from the non sob model whic I personally believe is revilutionary)

     

    Then we will never see a revolutionary game.....ever.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    There have been many in the history of gaming, wow being one ofc.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    There we go a half decent list of games that are candidates for being revolutionary.  You may disagree with some of them, but if you look at the reasoning you can see the difference, they revolutionised gaming, and not nessassarily because they were great games.

    As ive said,  I personally  its very possible GW2 could eventually be recognised as a game that revolutionises mmorg gaming by bringing F2P from the start as the default model, time will tell.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,132Member Uncommon
    Time will tell, and I'm rather excited to see the outcome.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

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