However, the essense of the site remains that it is in no way a test of the offer and demand for a product. Sure, 0$ in donations speaks for itself, however, in most cases, the demand is there already and in reality people prepurchase the product. Doing otherwise is ridiculous.
FFXIV had people buy their product, then they asked for more money so they could create a new product to replace the one their fans originally bought which was way below promises and expectations. That is beyond pathetic, however, I did not originally purchase so I am awaiting ARR which seems to be more like the kind of game I'd be interested to play. The box sale alone should make enough of an investment.
Do you know how much of the extra costs for remaking FFXIV were paid by SquareEnix themselves and not though the fans?
[mod edit]
It is a relevant point, it is far worse if they paid nothing themselves and demanded all the money to be caught up by the fans.
You wrongly assume that they were in a position to make demands, which renders it irrelevant. They were not. They did not beg either, they simply adapted. However you cant just go in a hypothetical worst case scenario and say "oh look, it could have been worse". It doesnt work that way.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
However, the essense of the site remains that it is in no way a test of the offer and demand for a product. Sure, 0$ in donations speaks for itself, however, in most cases, the demand is there already and in reality people prepurchase the product. Doing otherwise is ridiculous.
FFXIV had people buy their product, then they asked for more money so they could create a new product to replace the one their fans originally bought which was way below promises and expectations. That is beyond pathetic, however, I did not originally purchase so I am awaiting ARR which seems to be more like the kind of game I'd be interested to play. The box sale alone should make enough of an investment.
Do you know how much of the extra costs for remaking FFXIV were paid by SquareEnix themselves and not though the fans?
[mod edit]
It is a relevant point, it is far worse if they paid nothing themselves and demanded all the money to be caught up by the fans.
You wrongly assume that they were in a position to make demands, which renders it irrelevant. They were not. They did not beg either, they simply adapted. However you cant just go in a hypothetical worst case scenario and say "oh look, it could have been worse". It doesnt work that way.
So, how would you have handled the FFXIV debacle? Refund everyone who bought it, shut down the company, commit Seppuku?
When we judge a company, we have to take consideration to how other relevant companies act in similar situations, any other standpoint would be ridiculous.
dont get so bent out of shape about getting in. almost everyone who frequents this site will just crap on the beta anyway once they get in. especially those of you who called it a piece of shit the first go.
in fact, i hope you dont get in. its not your type of game.
Originally posted by FelixMajor I better get in first run considering I paid for the boxed copy back when the game was unplayable
Nice to see someone else realistic, be prepared to get torn a new one by the all the FF fanboys.
Remaking a game costs money. If not for the people who stayed and financially supported the game, 2.0 might not be a reality. SE could have done what other companies do.. either close up shop or go F2P.
SE isn't saying "FU" to the people who left. It's just saying "Thank you" to the people who stayed and had faith in SE. I'm sorry, but you're not entitled to anything just because you bought a game that was not up to your standards. And admittedely, it was not up to anyones standards.
BTW, do you ask to see another movie because the one YOU bought SUCKED?! And does a movie theater accommodate your demand? I think not.
Also, because you bought the game, 2.0 (even though it's a NEW game) will be an update for you, and will not require a new purchase. You will also get one month free play time to determine whether it's worth staying or leaving. That seems to be very fair, considering what you think you're "entitled to."
This is not entirely true, 2.0 was gonna happen regardless if we subscribed or not. Yoshi-P stated this in an earlyletter that the subscription was to maintaint the game service while they remade it and that if nobody wanted to subscribe they would've just brought down the 1.0 servers and remade the game anyway.
All(most) of us Legacy players merely payed for part of the server's running fees and were rewarded with a pretty good storyline leading up to the coming of 2.0, nothing more.
SquareEnix has had an extremely bad track record since they merged together. SquareSoft and Enix used to be two very different companies. A lot of people feel their last good Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy X -- others would argue Final Fantasy XI.
But the fact of the matter is that Final Fantasy is a flagship title. That is a franchise name with a massive amount of weight. Seeing it fail was not an option for SquareEnix. The creators of the game did in fact know that when the game was done, it wasn't ready and it was crappy. No one is apologizing for them.
The only thing that SquareEnix has done with this whole Final Fantasy XIV mess was do something no one else had done before -- they admitted their mistake, gave people the game for free, then remade the game entirely from the ground up. This has never happened to any other MMO before, most MMOs just get trashed and thrown away. Go play Tabula Rasa, yeah that's right -- IT'S GONE now, so you can't.
SquareEnix made huge mistakes. They have earned some bonus points for admitting they made mistakes and have worked very hard to fix those mistakes.They will win over their fans and win back likely most of the people who bought their title in the first place. They ARE honoring all titles, hell they are even honoring promises they made back in 2009 to make the key inside Final Fantasy 13 work for the Realm Reborn PS3 Beta. Did they have to do that? NO.
Are they doing it? YES. That reason alone is why. It just hasn't been done before.
Edit: To the people that purchased the game that do not have Legacy... you still have the game they're not making you purchase it again. They're just not giving you early access to beta or in game items because you bailed out. Therefore they do not owe you anything as the beta and items are simply a 'Thank You' to the people that kept playing 1.0.
A lot of people feel their last good Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy X -- others would argue Final Fantasy XI.
(...)
Those who feel that way usually started with FF VII as their first FF, I have rarely seen anyone who started with the first Final Fantasy to feel that way. If anything they felt FF IX was the last good one. Reason being that FF has changed a lot throughout the years and if you didn't experience the massive change from FF III-> FFIV, FFV->FFVI, FFVI->FFVII, FFVIII->FFIX, FFIX->FFX, I would assume you have a harder time appriciating the massive change from FFX -> FFXII and FFXII->FFXIII.
Those who feel that way usually started with FF VII as their first FF, I have rarely seen anyone who started with the first Final Fantasy to feel that way. If anything they felt FF IX was the last good one. Reason being that FF has changed a lot from title and if you didn't experience the massive change from FF III-> FFIV, FFV->FFVI, FFVI->FFVII, FFVIII->FFIX, FFIX->FFX, I would assume you have a harder time appriciating the massive change from FFX -> FFXII
There was no untruth in my statement. ^^ For me personally the last best Final Fantasy ws Final Fantasy 6.
Did you know that Final Fantasy 6 was the only FF game with Magitek Armor? Well not anymore, it's now in Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn.
SquareEnix has had an extremely bad track record since they merged together. SquareSoft and Enix used to be two very different companies. A lot of people feel their last good Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy X -- others would argue Final Fantasy XI.
No argument necessary. X and XI were the last two good games in the long popular series. As much as I dislike myself or anyone else stating an opinion as fact. I absolutely won't budge on that. XII was crap. XIII was crappier. XIV was crap, that got slightly less crappy with time, but still crappy compared to XI.
Like I tell alot of people. If you had told me back when I use to play FF2/4, FF5, FF3/6. That Square would turn the FF series into shit. I would have laughed in your face. Fast forward to present day. I would probably laugh in your face if you told me they could make a GOOD Final Fantasy.
As someone that loved FFXI and only cancelled his account not more then 3 weeks ago. As someone who played FFXIV in alpha and after release, then off and on till server closed. That I am wrong about Square and that FFXIV:ARR is the game that proves me wrong. While I will never touch another single player FF game. Of course unless it's another Tactics or full 3D remakes of classics like 1, 2/4, 3/6, or 5. I will be happy if their online FF can give me a reason to play it.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Legacy members who stood by and kept supporting the game even when it had major issues will likely be more supportive, report more bugs and put in the time to get a well rounded opinion during early betas. It's a much better alternatve than allowing random peeps that will ragequit and then slam everything they didn't like all over the web after 5 minutes of gameplay. If I was a developer in this position only legacy members would make it in until I was sure the game was basically ready for review and release.
And how many dud single player games have some of you guys bought, but still run to the shop and buy the next installment from the same software company.
SE admitted there downfall, they have tried to make amends, though I have no doubt that those banging on about how butt hurt they are will still attempt to get into Beta and play the first free month.
Holy... a lot of entitled people here. I especially enjoyed it when someone call the demand to invite everyone who bought the game when it first came out access to the first wave realistic. The only thing they're entitled to is the free year of play and the updated game free of charge (in addition to perhaps the free month they'll get).
It's been said many times in this thread alone, but legacy status was annouced some 12 to 15 months before it finally became unavailable. The game grew much in that time, and it became very playable. The conditions to becoming legacy were known for a vast amount of time, and those who were loyal to the game and the new team unlocked it (even though who just had respect for what they were doing in making a new game).
I very much enjoyed the game by the time it was shut down; it had a massive storyline and some great features offered (and many, many fixed or just plain taken out that were no good). But wow... someone calling the before mentioned note realistic? That's the least logical way of thinking I have ever heard, even on the internet.
I'm am actually quite shocked, even though I know I shouldn't be. It's like demanding blizzard give you every collector's edition mount and pet available in game (in addition to every expansion that changes the game) just because you bought the vanilla game when it first game out and didn't even bother to buy the regular editions, much less fork money out for collectors like others have. In fact, since they spent the money to remake virtually everything about the game, is even more than that (since they're giving the new version to you for free!).
I would write something on the predictable response "well, blizzard's original game wasn't complete garbage", but I believe what was already written addresses this adequately. How can this all be anything but self entitlement? It's especially obvious when you hear someone say "they just want more money" (when, again, people have known for over a year about legacy) and "I better get this because" what with all they're giving already and the fact that they've been a very generous business as is with everything they have and are offering (for those who actually read news posts and not just whine).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
And how many dud single player games have some of you guys bought, but still run to the shop and buy the next installment from the same software company.
SE admitted there downfall, they have tried to make amends, though I have no doubt that those banging on about how butt hurt they are will still attempt to get into Beta and play the first free month.
None? Who would honestly buy the next game in a series if the last one was crap?
And how many dud single player games have some of you guys bought, but still run to the shop and buy the next installment from the same software company.
SE admitted there downfall, they have tried to make amends, though I have no doubt that those banging on about how butt hurt they are will still attempt to get into Beta and play the first free month.
None? Who would honestly buy the next game in a series if the last one was crap?
I was refering to all those who bought the original game, they don't need to buy again as they get a free month on release of ARR.
Comments
You wrongly assume that they were in a position to make demands, which renders it irrelevant. They were not. They did not beg either, they simply adapted. However you cant just go in a hypothetical worst case scenario and say "oh look, it could have been worse". It doesnt work that way.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
So, how would you have handled the FFXIV debacle? Refund everyone who bought it, shut down the company, commit Seppuku?
When we judge a company, we have to take consideration to how other relevant companies act in similar situations, any other standpoint would be ridiculous.
dont get so bent out of shape about getting in. almost everyone who frequents this site will just crap on the beta anyway once they get in. especially those of you who called it a piece of shit the first go.
in fact, i hope you dont get in. its not your type of game.
This is not entirely true, 2.0 was gonna happen regardless if we subscribed or not. Yoshi-P stated this in an earlyletter that the subscription was to maintaint the game service while they remade it and that if nobody wanted to subscribe they would've just brought down the 1.0 servers and remade the game anyway.
All(most) of us Legacy players merely payed for part of the server's running fees and were rewarded with a pretty good storyline leading up to the coming of 2.0, nothing more.
SquareEnix has had an extremely bad track record since they merged together. SquareSoft and Enix used to be two very different companies. A lot of people feel their last good Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy X -- others would argue Final Fantasy XI.
But the fact of the matter is that Final Fantasy is a flagship title. That is a franchise name with a massive amount of weight. Seeing it fail was not an option for SquareEnix. The creators of the game did in fact know that when the game was done, it wasn't ready and it was crappy. No one is apologizing for them.
The only thing that SquareEnix has done with this whole Final Fantasy XIV mess was do something no one else had done before -- they admitted their mistake, gave people the game for free, then remade the game entirely from the ground up. This has never happened to any other MMO before, most MMOs just get trashed and thrown away. Go play Tabula Rasa, yeah that's right -- IT'S GONE now, so you can't.
SquareEnix made huge mistakes. They have earned some bonus points for admitting they made mistakes and have worked very hard to fix those mistakes.They will win over their fans and win back likely most of the people who bought their title in the first place. They ARE honoring all titles, hell they are even honoring promises they made back in 2009 to make the key inside Final Fantasy 13 work for the Realm Reborn PS3 Beta. Did they have to do that? NO.
Are they doing it? YES. That reason alone is why. It just hasn't been done before.
Bring on beta!
Legacy!
Edit: To the people that purchased the game that do not have Legacy... you still have the game they're not making you purchase it again. They're just not giving you early access to beta or in game items because you bailed out. Therefore they do not owe you anything as the beta and items are simply a 'Thank You' to the people that kept playing 1.0.
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
Those who feel that way usually started with FF VII as their first FF, I have rarely seen anyone who started with the first Final Fantasy to feel that way. If anything they felt FF IX was the last good one. Reason being that FF has changed a lot throughout the years and if you didn't experience the massive change from FF III-> FFIV, FFV->FFVI, FFVI->FFVII, FFVIII->FFIX, FFIX->FFX, I would assume you have a harder time appriciating the massive change from FFX -> FFXII and FFXII->FFXIII.
There was no untruth in my statement. ^^ For me personally the last best Final Fantasy ws Final Fantasy 6.
Did you know that Final Fantasy 6 was the only FF game with Magitek Armor? Well not anymore, it's now in Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn.
... and guess what we go to use.
No argument necessary. X and XI were the last two good games in the long popular series. As much as I dislike myself or anyone else stating an opinion as fact. I absolutely won't budge on that. XII was crap. XIII was crappier. XIV was crap, that got slightly less crappy with time, but still crappy compared to XI.
Like I tell alot of people. If you had told me back when I use to play FF2/4, FF5, FF3/6. That Square would turn the FF series into shit. I would have laughed in your face. Fast forward to present day. I would probably laugh in your face if you told me they could make a GOOD Final Fantasy.
As someone that loved FFXI and only cancelled his account not more then 3 weeks ago. As someone who played FFXIV in alpha and after release, then off and on till server closed. That I am wrong about Square and that FFXIV:ARR is the game that proves me wrong. While I will never touch another single player FF game. Of course unless it's another Tactics or full 3D remakes of classics like 1, 2/4, 3/6, or 5. I will be happy if their online FF can give me a reason to play it.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
And how many dud single player games have some of you guys bought, but still run to the shop and buy the next installment from the same software company.
SE admitted there downfall, they have tried to make amends, though I have no doubt that those banging on about how butt hurt they are will still attempt to get into Beta and play the first free month.
"once bitten twice shy" , i dont believe in you and your future FF series anymore
(your former alpha & beta tester)
Holy... a lot of entitled people here. I especially enjoyed it when someone call the demand to invite everyone who bought the game when it first came out access to the first wave realistic. The only thing they're entitled to is the free year of play and the updated game free of charge (in addition to perhaps the free month they'll get).
It's been said many times in this thread alone, but legacy status was annouced some 12 to 15 months before it finally became unavailable. The game grew much in that time, and it became very playable. The conditions to becoming legacy were known for a vast amount of time, and those who were loyal to the game and the new team unlocked it (even though who just had respect for what they were doing in making a new game).
I very much enjoyed the game by the time it was shut down; it had a massive storyline and some great features offered (and many, many fixed or just plain taken out that were no good). But wow... someone calling the before mentioned note realistic? That's the least logical way of thinking I have ever heard, even on the internet.
I'm am actually quite shocked, even though I know I shouldn't be. It's like demanding blizzard give you every collector's edition mount and pet available in game (in addition to every expansion that changes the game) just because you bought the vanilla game when it first game out and didn't even bother to buy the regular editions, much less fork money out for collectors like others have. In fact, since they spent the money to remake virtually everything about the game, is even more than that (since they're giving the new version to you for free!).
I would write something on the predictable response "well, blizzard's original game wasn't complete garbage", but I believe what was already written addresses this adequately. How can this all be anything but self entitlement? It's especially obvious when you hear someone say "they just want more money" (when, again, people have known for over a year about legacy) and "I better get this because" what with all they're giving already and the fact that they've been a very generous business as is with everything they have and are offering (for those who actually read news posts and not just whine).
None? Who would honestly buy the next game in a series if the last one was crap?
The new version is more like WoW instead of a FFXI/V.
If I see they haven't changed the stupid combat mechanics since alpha then there is no reason people should play this re-release.
I was refering to all those who bought the original game, they don't need to buy again as they get a free month on release of ARR.
Here, have this key on me (if you can get it to work cos' I can't:
RBWE DYCT 6DHF AJ66 2YV8
Best wishes
Pete