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The formation of a megathread: "Are the Servers dying again?"

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  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    there was a queue to get on the bastion today.

  • TheodwulfTheodwulf Brockton, MAPosts: 231Member Uncommon
      I pray that SWTOR lasts forever..I don't think I could take another horrible Star Wars MMORPG... If SWTOR fails..they will just make something worse.. That is the way progression works.
  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
    Originally posted by tiefighter25
    Originally posted by grimal

    The point is, this kind of discussion is rather pointless.  It's talking doom and gloom for the sake of it and nothing else.  It offers no intellectual debate...offers no comments about the gameplay itself.   In the end, it's absolutely pointless except giving the naysayers an uppance in post count.

     

    I wouldn't say it's useless. It does further demonstrate the tendencies of FTP players in regard to games that convert to Fremium after being Pay to play. This in turn better informs future game designers on how they may or may not want to set up their monetization schemes.

    Well that's part of the problem these days. No one wants to accept any negetive criticism at face value. Any rational critique just gets written off as hating. An this is exactly what led to TOR being in the state that it is rather than the epic game it should have been. Bioware floated along in the fluffy pink cloud of everyone telling them how wonderful they are and only realized too late that their game blueprint was just not workable even with their huge team and large budget. But by then it was too late.

    But this isnt even criticism...it's pointless speculation.

    If this was Feburary of 2012 I'd agree. But a year on now that we know a lot more about the game I feel its more of a post mortem deduction from the evidence at hand.

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • Slappy1Slappy1 columbus, OHPosts: 458Member
    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
    Originally posted by tiefighter25
    Originally posted by grimal

    The point is, this kind of discussion is rather pointless.  It's talking doom and gloom for the sake of it and nothing else.  It offers no intellectual debate...offers no comments about the gameplay itself.   In the end, it's absolutely pointless except giving the naysayers an uppance in post count.

     

    I wouldn't say it's useless. It does further demonstrate the tendencies of FTP players in regard to games that convert to Fremium after being Pay to play. This in turn better informs future game designers on how they may or may not want to set up their monetization schemes.

    Well that's part of the problem these days. No one wants to accept any negetive criticism at face value. Any rational critique just gets written off as hating. An this is exactly what led to TOR being in the state that it is rather than the epic game it should have been. Bioware floated along in the fluffy pink cloud of everyone telling them how wonderful they are and only realized too late that their game blueprint was just not workable even with their huge team and large budget. But by then it was too late.

    But this isnt even criticism...it's pointless speculation.

    If this was Feburary of 2012 I'd agree. But a year on now that we know a lot more about the game I feel its more of a post mortem deduction from the evidence at hand.

    My 2c is that every game that goes ftp see's an increase and then decline's.So why is the decline more important now than in feb 2012?I don't see the game decreasing in pop and if it is it's the natural life of going ftp.It happen's every time.Plus the fact that a btp GW2 just had a big patch,Tera gave away free time to many people (I got 2 free week's) and PoE went to open beta 10 or so day's back.It make's sense to see a decline.

    I guess people just like to pick on this game because of it's pre launch budget!Do you think it's really that bad,or are you just hoping to be right?

    Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

    Arya Stark

  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon
    I have no idea if the servers are growing but on Jedi Covenant there are usually 2 to 4 instances of Corusant running.  At the higher levels there usually only 1 to 2 instances though.
  • RoinRoin Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Myria

    Oh, look, the usual supsects trying to mug their favorite victim -- again.

    Because it's dying -- again.

    Because... Ummm, they say so -- again.

    *Yawn*

    Pretty much sums it up. I never seen someone spend so much time. Talking about something they obviously dislike. Kind of scarey and sad at same time. Probably get another temp ban for saying that again. image  As Tali said in ME3 though "Still totally worth it."

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    The point is, this kind of discussion is rather pointless.  It's talking doom and gloom for the sake of it and nothing else.  It offers no intellectual debate...offers no comments about the gameplay itself.   In the end, it's absolutely pointless except giving the naysayers an uppance in post count.

     

     The discussion would only be pointless if there was nothing to base it on. But there is, a full YEARS worth of decline and trauma for the game. What is bringing NO INTELLECTUAL debate is the BLIND FANBOISM who accept NO amount of continual decline, no amount of information into account and instead blindly defend and give comments adding NOTHING to the discussion other than...there is no discussion. In the end, it's absolutely pointless except giving the buttkissers an uppance in post count.

    Hey, that WAS easy, thanks for the tips in using a whole lot of nothing to refute a post, sadly I had to use it on yours which contained no information being used to actually refute with....instead of the many other replies filled with actual information.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon

    Snapshot of servers from 11 PM EST. PvP servers are usually lighter then other.

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    As Seven's snapshot shows, their is still a healthy population on the SWTOR servers (well except APAC). The fact remains that theire has been a month long downward tick.

    We can talk about it civilly, or not. The fact that ToR, for better or worse, was such a largely anticipated title that was forced to try a new monetization scheme is both intresting to watch unfold, and intresting beacuse of other games which may base their descions on monetization either to emulate, or do the exact opposite of TOR.

    Off the top of my head, TESO is still undecided on how to monetize their rather expensive upcoming game.

    Some are saying that the discussion is pointless, and uncivil.

    Well might I point out that there is currently a thread, where most of the posters are currently playing and big supporters of SWTOR, debating the new mechanics of the revamped Ilum, and how PVP and PVE players feel about it; and the thread is just as uncivil if not more so on the ongoing 8 year+ debate on PVP vs. PVE playstyles.

    Either a certain amount of univilness is endemic of MMOs in general, or SWTOR in particulair, even amongst its own playerbase.

    (The other thread is quickly devolving to the usual carebear vs. ganker gobility gook, between TOR fans.)

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon
    People show all of these numbers proving a "healthy" population, but you forget that SWTOR went from a ton of servers to just a handful. So, it stands to reason that those few servers would be heavy/full. I don't believe for a second that the remaining servers are "mega" servers. I think that is damage control spin. But this is only my opinion.
  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    People show all of these numbers proving a "healthy" population, but you forget that SWTOR went from a ton of servers to just a handful. So, it stands to reason that those few servers would be heavy/full. I don't believe for a second that the remaining servers are "mega" servers. I think that is damage control spin. But this is only my opinion.

    Well you are correct in one sense. The game's population is seriously reduced from launch. The Megaservers are really just beefed up launch servers. Pretty much the same thing with the cap increased. (Which explains the constant phasing and occasional severe lag.) The new pop cap seems to be set at around 4,000 based on some uncitable sources.

     

    The rest of this post is just my opinion and may be deemed as controversial by many.

     

    So sure the game's interest has decreased to a large extent. If you want a graph, here's an unscientific one. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/swtor.com

    Still, if you factor out the APAC severs to an extent, round down a bit, and multiply 4,000 x say 15 servers, SWTOR's max concurrent population is still around 60,000 players.

    Assume 1 out 4 is a subscriber and that leaves you with 15,000 players. Since the game picks up so much durring peak as compared to other hours, assume that's 20% of the game's active population, that gives you 75,000 subscribers.

    Of those 75,000 subscribers, an unknown number are putting in a lot of revenue in the form of purchases of microtransactions from the cartel shop, mostly in gambling boxes.

    This is what makes the game so intresting still to me.

    Can Bioware Austin pull it off? Can they subsist on such a small population?

    The immediate answer is yes.

    They have managed to retain a loyal subscriber base. Futhermore, they have found a means to get them to spend even more in the cartel shop.

    Bioware has withheld as much content as posible from the original developers. They've released the final bit as the Makeb DLC.

    Perhaps I'm the only one, but this is fascinating.

    How long can they keep it up?

    When you factor in the sometimes bizare machinations of EA throughout SWTOR's extended production and brief life, whether or not SWTOR can find some sort of Phoenix rebirth on fumes is interesting.

    I could write on and on, but it would just be ignored as a wall of text.

    The very fact that the media is covering this an a non-unique normal situation is odd in itself.

    The EA earning calls have been laughable in their vaguness as to subscriber numbers and profitabliity. Instead of me moving on, I observe.

    Like it or not, I'm curious to see what shoestrings, an elobate system of pulleys, used gum, and chutzpah can do to salvage this game and avoid another failed MMO situation.

    Bioware has managed to retain enough players, or at least revenue, to get to Makeb.

    Lets see if it warrants enough for the game to find new life and get actual new content (albeit not the class story thet was the vaunted original fourth pillar) and allow a playerbase much attached to the Star Wars IP play in their chosen mileau.

    TO say SWTOR is irrelevant is silly. All the developers are seeing just if and how EABioware can pull it off.

    I dunno, tired.

    You can say I'm full of shit, and that my made up numbers are just made up numbers. (Which is fine) But ask yourself truthfully if maybe, just maybe I'm right.

    I should add that I never played SWG, so don't call me a bitter ex-SWG vetran (get your knife in the back material from somewhere else) but it is interesting to note that pre NGE/Cu SWG had more subscribers then SWTOR does now. That and they manged to figure out a way to do meaningful space combat.

    So peace. I'll try and be more quiet in the immediate future. (Populations are a sore spot for most SWTOR enthusiasts.)

    P.S. Sorry Seven, I hope you get more content.

  • IG-88IG-88 GrandosPosts: 143Member
    Well, the waiting time for ops are just enormous.
  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    People show all of these numbers proving a "healthy" population, but you forget that SWTOR went from a ton of servers to just a handful. So, it stands to reason that those few servers would be heavy/full. I don't believe for a second that the remaining servers are "mega" servers. I think that is damage control spin. But this is only my opinion.

    they had a healthy population at launch

    but the game is bleeding subs since then, and very few new ones to close the gaps

    todays population would be considered healthy for a small game,,like TERA or EVE

    but not for a BIG BUDGET title like this one

    this is the DeLorean of games,,some good ideas, but badly executed

    and how do you think DISNEY fell about it? they own the IP, so if they think they can make more money elsewhere?

    perhaps with their own star wars mmo?

    remember CoX,,a way more successful title, being shut down because of the suits

    this game is showing all the signs of a short termed money grab

    lets see what the future brings,,actually "the other" space game is showing progress again

    so space mmo are NOT dead

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx SydneyPosts: 1,541Member

    I remember when this game was still in beta, lightsabre clashing and sparkes fight out was an important feature lol.

    Like just lightsabre touching each other was a feature.

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    People show all of these numbers proving a "healthy" population, but you forget that SWTOR went from a ton of servers to just a handful. So, it stands to reason that those few servers would be heavy/full. I don't believe for a second that the remaining servers are "mega" servers. I think that is damage control spin. But this is only my opinion.
    and how do you think DISNEY fell about it? they own the IP, so if they think they can make more money elsewhere?

    perhaps with their own star wars mmo?

    I have sent several e-mails to Disney concerning the creation of a new Star Wars MMO. I have gotten a response everytime. It is the generic "We will forward this to our game development department" response, but it is a response nonetheless. And. I got the response in 1 day vs. the 21+ days that I have been waiting on SWTOR support to answer a ticket. If enough folks request a Star Wars game from Disney, they may give us what we want.

    And for the record...I don't want a SWG2. I just want a GOOD Star Wars game to play. I was excited for SWTOR, but was let down greatly by the restricted worlds, horrible space system and poor crafting system.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Snapshot of servers from 11 PM EST. PvP servers are usually lighter then other.

    Is that the best it got last night?

    No way as good as what it was on 13th Jan, as you took here

    Then it had 5 FULL servers, now dropping 1 level and reading Veru Heavy, Prphecy of the Five dropping 2 levels and reading Standard instead of Very Heavy and the other 2 PVP servers saying the same. PVP servers may be light now, but they will be the higher ones later as that keeps people playing longterm whereas story / PVE does not.

    I guess people got their 3rd characters and realised that the content was pretty much the same

    That is a massive drop in only 3 weeks, I would have thought there would have been at least 1 or 2 FULL servers, after such short time, so 3 more weeks they will be Heavy, 6 weeks Standard, 9 weeks Light, 12 weeks dead?

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    8 US servers.

    How many make it "heavy"?

    Even if it was 50,000 per server that is only 400,000 players...and there are not 50,000 people on each server during that pic. So, how many is it? 10,000? Thats a little more like it....80,000 players...

    So, how about that little tid bit of perspective? 80,000...and you have NO idea how many of those players are playing for FREE, and THAT my fanboys is why EA lumped SWTORs latest numbers with 2 other games in their last conference call to share holders...because the game is doing so badly they are not willing to give details about the game on its own, it required heavy spin...heavier than the last time.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    It all depends on what server you are on. A server may not be dying, but all servers overall are.

    If you were on Starsider in SWG from the start you would not have noticed any difference either (unless you looked at the stats of all of them), but if you were on servers like Kauri you would notice that populations were dying.

    i think the same, the red eclipse is everyday most of the time very heavy and full from the last merge till and today

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Snapshot of servers from 11 PM EST. PvP servers are usually lighter then other.

    Is that the best it got last night?

    No way as good as what it was on 13th Jan, as you took here

    Then it had 5 FULL servers, now dropping 1 level and reading Veru Heavy, Prphecy of the Five dropping 2 levels and reading Standard instead of Very Heavy and the other 2 PVP servers saying the same. PVP servers may be light now, but they will be the higher ones later as that keeps people playing longterm whereas story / PVE does not.

    I guess people got their 3rd characters and realised that the content was pretty much the same

    That is a massive drop in only 3 weeks, I would have thought there would have been at least 1 or 2 FULL servers, after such short time, so 3 more weeks they will be Heavy, 6 weeks Standard, 9 weeks Light, 12 weeks dead?

    I read your post in which you demanded screenshot so I made it. I did not wait for the best time, I did it after I logged off game and checked this forum.

    Believe me I have better things to do then look at SWTOR numbers all day long. I actually play a game.

    From now on I will not post any numbers from SWTOR, because no matter what I post it's twisted in all possible ways. No matter what I post is not going to  change attitude of some posters here, so why even to bother.

    Everybody here knows that MMos have peaks and deeps. Look at Rift and complete loss of interest from players  in just a month after huge expansion. Look at other games which follow the same pattern. Everybody admits that it's normal, but not in the case of SWTOR. SWTOR has to have maximum number of players all the time, otherwise is doomed, dying, disaster etc.

     

     

     

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Snapshot of servers from 11 PM EST. PvP servers are usually lighter then other.

     

    Is that the best it got last night?

    No way as good as what it was on 13th Jan, as you took here

    Then it had 5 FULL servers, now dropping 1 level and reading Veru Heavy, Prphecy of the Five dropping 2 levels and reading Standard instead of Very Heavy and the other 2 PVP servers saying the same. PVP servers may be light now, but they will be the higher ones later as that keeps people playing longterm whereas story / PVE does not.

    I guess people got their 3rd characters and realised that the content was pretty much the same

    That is a massive drop in only 3 weeks, I would have thought there would have been at least 1 or 2 FULL servers, after such short time, so 3 more weeks they will be Heavy, 6 weeks Standard, 9 weeks Light, 12 weeks dead?

    I read your post in which you demanded screenshot so I made it. I did not wait for the best time, I did it after I logged off game and checked this forum.

    Believe me I have better things to do then look at SWTOR numbers all day long. I actually play a game.

    From now on I will not post any numbers from SWTOR, because no matter what I post it's twisted in all possible ways. No matter what I post is not going to  change attitude of some posters here, so why even to bother.

    Everybody here knows that MMos have peaks and deeps. Look at Rift and complete loss of interest from players  in just a month after huge expansion. Look at other games which follow the same pattern. Everybody admits that it's normal, but not in the case of SWTOR. SWTOR has to have maximum number of players all the time, otherwise is doomed, dying, disaster etc.

     

     

     

    Actually I did not just ask for a screenshot, I was looking for a screenshot showing 5 FULL US servers or more or one being FULL. It did not have to be last night, it could be tonight or tomorrow. How can I twst one showing loads of full servers? I did not when you posted that previous screenshot, which you even posted 2 screenshots without being asked, and without hassle, because they were AWESOME stats and you wanted to show the game doing well.

    Nothing there is twisted at all, 5 servers on 13th Jan were FULL, 5 servers on 2nd Feb were Very Heavy - all down.

    No screenshots / no posting of numbers will also indicate servers are dying as you do not want to show the truth. If numberes keep being the same or better, how can they be argued? If you want to show game is not dying keep posting healthy numbers.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,082Member Uncommon

    It isn't just the fact that SWTOR went from a "tom of servers" to a "handful - to ensure that subscribers had a good gaming experience" but that this was followed by a move to F2P which should have boosted player numbers significantly.

    Based on what the CFO said last quarter - indicating that the game wasn't making a profit - coupled with JR's recent remarks that suggest it still isn't then the best one can probably hope for is that EA do enough to ensure that the folks who currently subscribed continue to enjoy the game - at the very least for another year.

    When a company is in full cost control mode and looking to get every cent it can flagged as profit things that are not turning a profit can have a hard time.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Ive said it before, ill say it again. Every single P2P game that goes F2P will see a big jump in players...for a while.

    Even Age of Conan had a massive increase in players after going F2P, 3 months after doing so Funcom announced that 600,000 new accounts were created since going F2P...yet going into the 4th month the servers were very light, why? because, they game isnt all that good.

     

    What? Not all that good? Age of Conan eats SWTOR for breakfast. And the servers I am on are super busy, Fury (standard PvP) and Rage (Blood &Glory hardcore PvP server). You eventually know how extremely massive the gameworld of AoC is, yet I run into players to goup and fight pretty much everwhere. Guild gets new members every day. How is that?

    AoC looks better, has better PvP, better combat system, bigger more dynamic world with weather and day/night change, better crafting, stellar endgame, riding training, horses and combat mounts, guild cities, sieges, combat companions and pets, alternative leveling zones.. SWTOR needs another 5 years of development to come even close

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  • ZandilZandil templestowePosts: 234Member Uncommon
    I'm on Dalborra server and while I see bigger numbers in fleet and planets then I did 4 months ago the que for FP's and even WZ's seems to be getting longer wait times by the week. Looks like alot of F2P coming in and doing the basics but not putting money into the game to unlock stuff.

    image
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    What? Not all that good? Age of Conan eats SWO...snip

     the AoC dead horse has been beaten more than SWTORs...how good the game is also has nothing to do with how well it is or is not doing. The game can be a perfect one and still not appeal to players.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    I read your post in which you demanded screenshot so I made it. I did not wait for the best time, I did it after I logged off game and checked this forum.

    Believe me I have better things to do then look at SWTOR numbers all day long. I actually play a game. 

    *GASP!* People actually do that?!

    I thought we were supposed to gnash teeth all weekend, posting about our hatred for some game while slowly tearing up paper or such and pretending it is said game! :P

    More on topic; as said above by someone, the Red Eclipse definitely seems to be doing well, I was playing on Nar Shaddaa (4) during the weekend.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

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