Environment Design

Torcip · February 2013

Do you guys think that we will be able to lose ourselves in Tamriel like all the other TES games. Or will the areas are designed linearly around quest hubs. I want to be able to explore a forest for hours like in Skyrim, most MMO's forests are a few dozen trees with one path leading to a quest hub. The biggest problem for MMOs today is the worlds seem hand crafted to get you from Point A to point B, they aren't worlds anymore. I want to be able to walk for hours and not find anything quest related.

Nitth · February 2013

Originally posted by Torcip
Do you guys think that we will be able to lose ourselves in Tamriel like all the other TES games. ?

Probably will until i hit that HUGE INVISIBLE WALL that prevents me from entering another Provence.

bcbully · February 2013

I need open doors. Not just pictures of buildings.

Karteli · February 2013

If the scale is a 1:1 to Oblivion, then each factions explorable area would be somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 the size of a WoW Vanilla continent.

Just from the MMORPG size comparison of Cyrodiil:

... and how each factions boundaries are comparable to the size of Cyrodiil (bigger, but not astronomically bigger).

So, will you get lost? I really doubt it. If the world was actually open, then maybe, but sectioned off with invisible walls? Naw.

Nitth · February 2013

Originally posted by Karteli
So, will you get lost? I really doubt it. If the world was actually open, then maybe, but sectioned off with invisible walls? Naw.

If you liked questing around say...Riften there is a high probability that you will hit some kind of barrier.

'Im sure with population density not seen in SPG's, Many ppl will experience this problem.

Crazyhorsek · February 2013

If its really like DAoC there will be no "invisible barrier"... there will be a huge wall with gates and caster / melee npcs (guards) that one shot you (no matter what level you are) the minute you get close to the frontier wall.

Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Plus Cyrodill itself besides the center will be kind of "divided" in 3 parts, since there are parts "closer" to each realm the odds of those being controlled by the closest faction is high.

If you want an example based on daoc to make it easier to understand the concept:

http://tekener.com/maps/

The center that says "Agramon" will be the Imperial city

The top side (the snowy part) is the "midgard frontier" - closeste to midgard usually midgard control unless other ppl go there to conquer their towers and keeps - this will prolly the area around TES Bruma or Cheydinhal, Ebon Heart controlled with their keeps and towers.

The left side (green) is the "hibernia frontier" - closest to Hibernia, usually Hibernia control unless other ppl go there to conquer their towers and keeps- this could be the area around TES Chorrol, Kvatch, Anvil. - Daggerfall controlled with their keeps and towers.

The right side (also green but less green) is the "Albion frontier" - closest to Albion, usually Albion control unless other ppl go there to conquer their towers and keeps - This could be the area around TES Bravil and Leyawiin - Aldmeri controlled with their keeps and towers.

For reference:

Cyrodiil map.

All of cyrodill will be shared, fought and controlled by all factions.

Saying you will miss Hammerfell when playing a Nord is completely false because of the sheer size of Cyrodiil. And of course the "cyrodiil faction zones" will have their distinct flavor, resembling their closest faction... so if you're a nord and you get closer to Anvil, all around you will be "daggerfall flavor" since its their zone still. When you see a tower or a keep, you'll know by its style of architecture where you are so you'll still feel "hammerfell"

Only the imperial city is really IMPERIAL. Of course you could have the usual imperial guard patrols but we're talking about a "no man's land" here... in reality is neither faction or imperial - its like... rebel / defector / resistance cities that sway in a covert way from the "Empire's" control.

So... considering how huge everyzone is, I dont think how this talk about "invisible walls" and "cryyy I cant go to the other faction's zone" is even possible. You prolly wont see half of your own zone, let alone other's.

I played daoc since beta, I only played alb (well... mostly, 99%) and I dont think I ever knew 100% of Albion - from the absolute highlands to the most southern part, was really a stretch and there are places I never went to.

What I think is that people just want A LOT for the sake of being "A LOT"... you're just biting more than you can chew. Your own faction land plus Cyrodiil is ALREADY more than you can chew - considering the division and the chances you actually have of getting there alive. The chances of surving "exploring" Hibernia's frontiers as an Alb were slim. So it takes a lot of time to explore the "other side's" frontiers.

EDIT: So yes, you will get lost. Of course you all going to get some crappy addons with arrows pointing into everything will yellow orbs and a sound saying "ITZ HEAR MOURON LOOKZ" with red and bold arial size 72, but thats not a game design fault, thats your own fault.

Nitth · February 2013

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Why are you throwing these DaoC references at me when there just as plausible as the invisible wall theory?

I hardly see the "Frontier walls" in a TeS setting. But it could still be possible

Crazyhorsek · February 2013

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Why are you throwing these DaoC references at me when there just as plausible as the invisible wall theory?

I hardly see the "Frontier walls" in a TeS setting. But it could still be possible

So I make this huge post and the only thing you quote is half a sentence? Damn I'm disapointed

But... well I'm a 3d designer, I worked in games before and maybe I take those "invisible walls" too literally because I cant think of a game with actual "invisible walls" from a designer point of view.

Lets see... Do you consider a huge mountain range that you cant climb an "invisible wall"?

Karteli · February 2013

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Why are you throwing these DaoC references at me when there just as plausible as the invisible wall theory?

I hardly see the "Frontier walls" in a TeS setting. But it could still be possible

So I make this huge post and the only thing you quote is half a sentence? Damn I'm disapointed

But... well I'm a 3d designer, I worked in games before and maybe I take those "invisible walls" too literally because I cant think of a game with actual "invisible walls" from a designer point of view.

Lets see... Do you consider a huge mountain range that you cant climb an "invisible wall"?

Just about every game has some sort of artificial & unrealistic barrier to prevent movement into undefined areas, unless the world wraps around on itself. They could also include fatigue / exhaustion areas. Or invisible walls found through extensive exploring. Or simply restricted places blocked by fog. Some unpolished games just let a player fall off the edge of the world as well, but these spots would be found by using terrain defects to get somewhere that otherwise wouldn't be permissible. WoW, SWTOR and GW2 are somewhat popular games and examples of one or more form of invisible-wall technique.

So I guess it is surprising that as a 3D designer the concept is new to you.

Mountains or endless visible walls do throw in a hitch to the notion though, so would it make you happier if people just called them unrealistic barriers? If you ever climbed those mountains in a game of your choice (can be tricky), you would eventually find your invisible wall.

At some point though people from their respective factions would need to travel to and from Cyradiil. There WILL be a barrier to prevent opposing factions from following them back into their homeland. Maybe it will be a portal since Cyradiil will be instanced with a load screen. But it would still be unrealistic.

Nitth · February 2013

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by Nitth Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Why are you throwing these DaoC references at me when there just as plausible as the invisible wall theory? I hardly see the "Frontier walls" in a TeS setting. But it could still be possible

So I make this huge post and the only thing you quote is half a sentence? Damn I'm disapointed

But... well I'm a 3d designer, I worked in games before and maybe I take those "invisible walls" too literally because I cant think of a game with actual "invisible walls" from a designer point of view.

Lets see... Do you consider a huge mountain range that you cant climb an "invisible wall"?

Thats what i consider a invisible wall:
Skyrim Invisible wall reference

I think its plausible that they could use something like that.

Classic refrence for Definition and fun:)
Classic Invisible wall reference.

Do i consider a mountain ride an "invisible wall"? No, I consider that a barrier that i mentioned pitty you didn't reference that only the invisible wall one.

Yes that's also a way they could do it.

One thing we do know for sure is there will be some kind of barrier preventing entry to other provinces.

Crazyhorsek · February 2013

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Why are you throwing these DaoC references at me when there just as plausible as the invisible wall theory? I hardly see the "Frontier walls" in a TeS setting. But it could still be possible

So I make this huge post and the only thing you quote is half a sentence? Damn I'm disapointed

But... well I'm a 3d designer, I worked in games before and maybe I take those "invisible walls" too literally because I cant think of a game with actual "invisible walls" from a designer point of view.

Lets see... Do you consider a huge mountain range that you cant climb an "invisible wall"?

Thats what i consider a invisible wall:
Skyrim Invisible wall reference

I think its plausible that they could use something like that.

Classic refrence for Definition and fun:)
Classic Invisible wall reference.

Do i consider a mountain ride an "invisible wall"? No, I consider that a barrier that i mentioned pitty you didn't reference that only the invisible wall one.

Yes that's also a way they could do it.

One thing we do know for sure is there will be some kind of barrier preventing entry to other provinces.

Good god yes... I was wrong. There is one in skyrim you're absolutely right and thats a major design failure... oh wow... thats ugly

I didnt mention mountain ranges and such because ppl dont look at them as restrictions but as part of the scenery and funny enough dont realize that...

Karteli · February 2013

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Stop with that "invisible wall" nonsense.

Why are you throwing these DaoC references at me when there just as plausible as the invisible wall theory? I hardly see the "Frontier walls" in a TeS setting. But it could still be possible

So I make this huge post and the only thing you quote is half a sentence? Damn I'm disapointed

But... well I'm a 3d designer, I worked in games before and maybe I take those "invisible walls" too literally because I cant think of a game with actual "invisible walls" from a designer point of view.

Lets see... Do you consider a huge mountain range that you cant climb an "invisible wall"?

Thats what i consider a invisible wall:
Skyrim Invisible wall reference

I think its plausible that they could use something like that.

Classic refrence for Definition and fun:)
Classic Invisible wall reference.

Do i consider a mountain ride an "invisible wall"? No, I consider that a barrier that i mentioned pitty you didn't reference that only the invisible wall one.

Yes that's also a way they could do it.

One thing we do know for sure is there will be some kind of barrier preventing entry to other provinces.

Some other good ones too (MMORPG related):

[WOW] - Burning Crusade's Edge

What is on the other side of those artificial boundaries in Ghostlands? Behind the swirly portal ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrLdYFnKbDI

[WOW] - Alterac Valley Wall Jumping

Going up up and over the mountains surrounding Alterac Valley. Been there and if you get too close to the invisible wall your character gets stuck and his/her physical location is undefined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2HSKSnffLk

[SWTOR] - Exploring Hutta / Uninstanced Jiguuna Airport Hanger

Over some more prison boundaries & mountains to see weird stuff and spots to fall over the edge of the explorable world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hZ_mHOSnck

An artificial barrier / mountain just begs to be climbed ... just as prisons (ie mmo "zones") are meant to be escaped from. someone will find a way ....

Crazyhorsek · February 2013

Originally posted by Karteli

An artificial barrier / mountain just begs to be climbed ... just as prisons (ie mmo "zones") are meant to be escaped from. someone will find a way ....

lol... thats so true! lol

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