Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Are subscription games meeting player demand?

124»

Comments

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by IG-88

    Im suprised by the results, i thought most wanted F2P theses days.

     

    If a MMO is good enough to play, i gladly pay the sub to keep it alive and support its devs for more content.

     

    And you consider that the results of roughly 80 people at present, on this forum, represents what is happening in the industry?

    Sorry  but the rest of those people are out playing their favorite F2P game and not worrying about what the whiners on this site have to say. 

    I have never met a more hypocritical group than the P2P crowd.

    and yet people say that gaming apps like xfire and raptor etc represent 'trends' even though only a fraction of the gaming community uses them image

    There is a major difference.

    Xfire or Raptr stats are not based on forum-dwellers claiming this or that. On top of that, MMORPG.com is pretty much the haven for disgruntled vets.

    Xfire and Raptr stats are based on informations available by registering what their userbase plays (and for how long). There is no debate or opinion during the process of collecting that data as it registers exactly what their userbase is playing.  Now whether you agree or disagree with their stats is probably better left for another thread.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by ksternal
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Kuinn

      Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

     That is an absolute, you are a stih.

     

    Anyway, sorry P2P defenders, your defense that one must pay a monthly fee if a game is good is an outdated closed minded view to defend a pay model based on the lie that a company must cover very high bandwidth and server costs. It has been proven to be false by a great many companies LONG before P2P games started going FREEMIUM.

    The MMO world is leaving you behind, I will now commence with the sheding of a tear for your losing arguments.

    I shed a tear for the crappy games and updates for games already out that are F2P.

     Yeah, but we dont care if you do or not, the industry is changing in our favor while you complain about not having to pay...we are lol'ing over it, you are raging.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    - 15$ = WoW
    - 5$ I can pay for less good game but they never asked me.
    - buy to play seems fail, as GW2 try to make item shop oriented progress, IMO, can be debatable.
    - f2p are ok until you feel like need to pay, then I just look if it can be 5 or 15$ for month, then I pay 5$ for like 4 months or so (more I guess will be boring) or hop to the next game.

    sub model with me works with WoW when I have time/money to play it, otherwise it not working so I may choose f2p.

    best of all will be b2p small fractions of game every year to have new content and not be stressed about sub delay and such.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    No, subscription games are not meeting player demand.

    Why? My personal opinion on this is that there are a few different factors that contributes to it's decline, however I don't think the subscription model is 'doomed' (yet, perhaps things will change 5 or 10 years from now, who knows).

     

    It's been over 10 years already, and the rise of the F2P market.

    A lot of us have been playing MMOs since UO, EQ, Lineage, SWG, etc. Remember exactly how old you were back then and how much free time you had compared to now? Unless you're one of the lucky bastard who landed 'that job' that pretty much gives you a great salary while you spend most of your time lazying around, today you probably work full-time, have a wife (husband) and maybe kids, bills to pay, having to put food on the table, etc. That's a pretty big gap and it makes for a pretty big difference in the amount of time you can spare on your hobbies without negatively affecting your responsabilities.

    Enters the F2P market. No entrance fee (box cost), no subscription, you can simply just download it and play. If you like the game, you can spend money. The rise of F2P MMORPGs brought more attention to the concept that you don't actually "own" your account in P2P games, you're renting it as you would rent an apartment. If you stop paying, you can't access your apartment anymore. I think that when players began realizing this, they've begun looking over what exactly does their subscription provides them in terms of stability and "sureness"? In a F2P, you can buy cash shop items with real money and even if you take a 1 year break and come back, you'll still have those items. With a P2P, if you take a break well you 'lose' the money you spend on the remaining time of your subscription that hasn't been used, and you will be required to put $15 upfront to begin playing again at your return (and possible buying an expansion to keep up).

    The reality of today's lives, coupled with the changed in mentality brought upon by the F2P market (albeit indirectly) is one of the reason why I believe the subscription model is in decline.

     

    One apple a day keeps the doctor away

    With P2P MMOs, we pay a monthly fee, but what exactly are we getting during that month besides rental access to our account? Has the content changed from 1 month to another? Has there been new additions? Unless we're talking about Trions World which are putting other MMO developers to shame by delivering new content on a nearly monthly basis, the answer is most likely no. So what exactly are you paying for? The right to play the new yearly expansion you'll have to buy anyway?

    Let's take a non-MMO for a minute as an example, Diablo 2. Bought the game for $60 (or whatever it was when it came out). it has online so I didn't have to pay a buck to play with other players. Lord of Destruction expac came out I think 1 or 2 years later. Bought that as well. There were patches that contained fixes and sometimes small additions or minor content (much like a P2P game) but I didn't have to pay monthly for that.

    Let's take Guild Wars 1 as an example this time (although a Cash Shop was later added to it). Bought it for $60 when it came out. Didn't have to subscribe either. Bought 2 other expansions that came out (I think there's a third as well?). Again, there were patches that contained fixes and sometimes small additions or minor content (again, much like a P2P game) but no subs either.

    So what exactly are you getting from that P2P MMO that you wouldn't if that same MMO were to use a B2P or F2P model?

     

    Entrance Fee

    If you want to start playing a P2P MMO, you need to buy the box. Not too bad if the game has been out just recently. The lower level areas will still be relatively well-populated as will the middle and higher grounds.  But what if the game has been out for a few years?

    Before Everquest 2 went F2P (and I'm not sure if players have to buy those or not, haven't looked into it) if you wanted to play it when it was P2P, well you had to buy the box, and if you kept playing you eventually reached a point where you'd have to buy the expansions.

    • The Bloodline Chronicles
    • The Splitpaw Saga
    • Desert of Flames
    • Kingdom of Sky
    • The Fallen Dynasty
    • Echoes of Faydwer
    • Rise of Kunark
    • The Shadow Odyssey
    (Those are the expac or adventure pack that launched before the game went F2P).  EQ1 has even more expansions. Luckily I don't think they costed $60 (unlike WoW expacs) or at least from what I've read. I've never played Everquest so perhaps someone else can fill in on this. I do believe having read that they would cost around $20 per expac and $5 for adventure pack, but I'm really not sure of the accuracy.
     
    Still, supposing they would only cost $20, that's still $145 (1 is an adventure pack) worth of expacs on top of a monthly sub and the initial box. A bit costly and can definitively discourage players from playing the game, and it's causing the lower areas to be pretty barren. A fix to this has been to make the first few levels available for free (WoW and RIFT both allow players to play up to Lv.20 for free, WAR allows all  of T1 for free), but the overall cost for a player that eventually decides to subscribe and play and pretty high.

     

     

     

    I'll leave it at that for now. This has taken much longer to write than I expected.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Nikopol

    The way I see it:

    If I don't enjoy a game enough to pay $15 a month for playing, I should probably be doing something else.

     

    Exactly.

    If it isn't good enough to make me want to pay money why on Earth would it be good enough for me to invest my (more) precious leisure time into it?

    These guys that tell me that this or that game isn't 'worth' a sub make me boggle... they blatantly don't even enjoy or even like what they are doing and are just looking for a free knitting simulator to kill time in until the next one comes along. Too many people that don't even like MMORPGs are steering the direction of the industry IMO.

     

    I love playing EVE very casually

    I would love to keep doing that, but the sub-fee is too much for me to justify this

     

    You 'love it', but you don't think it's worth pay £2.50 a week for...

    What on Earth does something have to do to justify itself to you in order for you to invest in it's continuance past offering a service that you 'love'?

    You would think supporting the company that makes the game would be enough, rather then expecting to freeload off them and others.

     

    Love is only as strong a word as the context is. Right here it is a computer game that I play mostly casually and semi afk, since you choose to ignore that fact, I'm not even sure what you are trying to prove or force feed here. I said it's entirely possible to enjoy a game while not finding it madly awesome to justify a monthly payment, if you cant understand that then dont, but that's how it is, it's quite simple tbh.

    We would agree that 'love' measn that you very much enjoy the game and derive a lot of pleasure from it, right? I mean, it was you that chose that word... not once but twice. You must know that it means, in the context of games, to get a lot of pleasure from what you are doing?

    Where does 'madly awesome' rank on your scale btw? Is that the point where you consider a game to be worth supporting with your dollar?

    I ignored that you play it casually (or 'semi afk', as you put it) because it just isn't relevant to what I am saying. I am talking about your mental barrier to paying a minimal amount to a game you yourself profess to love. 

    I think my point has been clear through this... and I am not sure why you use the term 'force feed'. I thought it was just a discussion and I simply responded to what you said.

    You should also understand that I'm not saying EVE should be B2P or F2P.

    I do understand that. I am commenting on the fact that you personally don't seem to want to pay to support a game that you obviously very much enjoy.

     

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,734Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot

    The price of "micro"transactions will keep going up and will encompass more and more of the MMO and its gameplay. After a while the real cost of so called F2P games will sink in. It may well be that players will start clammering for a sub and an end to microtransactions.

    But lets call it what is is, macrotransactions is far more apt.

     I doubt many players will be calling for a p2p model in an f2p game.....Most players like the micro model as they can determine what they pay for.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
     

     

    You 'love it', but you don't think it's worth pay £2.50 a week for...

    What on Earth does something have to do to justify itself to you in order for you to invest in it's continuance past offering a service that you 'love'?

    You would think supporting the company that makes the game would be enough, rather then expecting to freeload off them and others.

     

    Love is only as strong a word as the context is. Right here it is a computer game that I play mostly casually and semi afk, since you choose to ignore that fact, I'm not even sure what you are trying to prove or force feed here. I said it's entirely possible to enjoy a game while not finding it madly awesome to justify a monthly payment, if you cant understand that then dont, but that's how it is, it's quite simple tbh.

    We would agree that 'love' measn that you very much enjoy the game and derive a lot of pleasure from it, right? I mean, it was you that chose that word... not once but twice. You must know that it means, in the context of games, to get a lot of pleasure from what you are doing?

     

    Maybe it's worth mentioning what you left outside your quote, that I specifically mentioned two activities within the game that I "love" to do, mining and hauling while being half of the time afk. I love kittens too but I dont spent 15 bucks a month in them. I love the CoD:Zombies but I didnt buy the game because of just one side of the game that I "love" being the zombi "minigame".

     

    Where does 'madly awesome' rank on your scale btw? Is that the point where you consider a game to be worth supporting with your dollar?

     

    I mentioned I'd prefer B2P because of my play style in EVE, how is B2P not supporting the game with my dollars? I'm willing to spend a single large amount of money to be able to casually play the game. I'm not comfortable paying 15 bucks every month regardless if I play 6 hours or 60 hours that month. Pay by hour would be actually my preferred method but many people dont like it because they feel they are being punished for playing more, the way I see it is I'm not being punished for playing less with PBH.

     

    I ignored that you play it casually (or 'semi afk', as you put it) because it just isn't relevant to what I am saying. I am talking about your mental barrier to paying a minimal amount to a game you yourself profess to love. 

    I think my point has been clear through this... and I am not sure why you use the term 'force feed'. I thought it was just a discussion and I simply responded to what you said.

    You should also understand that I'm not saying EVE should be B2P or F2P.

    I do understand that. I am commenting on the fact that you personally don't seem to want to pay to support a game that you obviously very much enjoy.

     I've already paid and supported them, I simply use so small slice of their overall product that I dont find it to be enough raining my money on them constantly. And like I said it's not a problem to me, if the game would be that good I would keep paying, since it's not, the only option is B2P or F2P.

     

    It isnt a black and white world where a product can only be so good that I pay anything for it, or so bad that I wont touch it in any case. There are a lot of games, movies, and many other products that I pay happily for if the price is right, that's what this sub model stuff is essentially about too.

     

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn

     

    Maybe it's worth mentioning what you left outside your quote, that I specifically mentioned two activities within the game that I "love" to do, mining and hauling while being half of the time afk.

    I love kittens too but I dont spent 15 bucks a month in them...

     

    OK lol... you have lost me at kittens. Time to call this one a day I think if that's the kind of reasoning we are heading to.

    I will just take it that you didn't mean to use the word 'love' at all in describing how you feel about playing EvE (because those 2 activies *are* playing EvE...) and assume you meant 'quite enjoy, but not enough to pay for'.

    I'm gonna wish you luck for the future, give you my sympathy for being locked out of something that you quite enjoy for the sake of £2.50 a week, and move on from this little exchange.

    image

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Paladrink
    Stop beating a dead horse...

    This forum reeks of dead horses.  When you are only allowed to talk about games what do you expect?

     

    Subs are stupid but there are plenty of people in the world that will still pay it under the impression they are getting more for their money.  Like those people who refuse to buy generic products at the grocery store because they cannot believe that some generic taste better than bran name.  If it cost more it's gotta be a better product, right?

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    Originally posted by Paladrink
    Stop beating a dead horse...

    This forum reeks of dead horses.  When you are only allowed to talk about games what do you expect?

     

    Subs are stupid but there are plenty of people in the world that will still pay it under the impression they are getting more for their money.  Like those people who refuse to buy generic products at the grocery store because they cannot believe that some generic taste better than bran name.  If it cost more it's gotta be a better product, right?

    If one wants to have access to the entire game (which many of us do) and not just bits and pieces, then "F2P" is almost always more expensive. And I agree; people often times think that the more expensive products are better.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    Depends on the game.  Some games deserve the subscription price, some don't.

    There are sub games that should be F2P and don't deserve the sub.

    There are free games that could get away with charging a sub, but don't.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    The opinions in this thread dont really matter.

    Remove WoW and Rift, how many Subscription only games remain?

    Compare that tiny little list to how many subscription games had to start offereing F2P options in order to survive, then add that to the list of B2P games there are.

    The amount of people playing F2P/B2P games far outnumber Sub gamers today so...

    No amount of crying like a school girl is going to change the FACT that subscription games cannot keep players and thus are not meeting player demands. Opinion does not override fact and the INDUSTRY even says Subscriptions are a thing of the past. EA, Sony, Funcom, Turbine, NCsoft, Arenanet, PW, Nexon,Cryptic, Ndoors...almost every single major MMO studio have stated that you are old fossils living in the past and they dont care about your opinion.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    The opinions in this thread dont really matter.

    Remove WoW and Rift, how many Subscription only games remain?

    Compare that tiny little list to how many subscription games had to start offereing F2P options in order to survive, then add that to the list of B2P games there are.

    The amount of people playing F2P/B2P games far outnumber Sub gamers today so...

     

     

    So, what are are actually saying is that F2P cannot stand on it's own two legs in the West and the games that offer it also have to run a sub option in order to survive?

    Look, subs account for a huge part of the *paying* market in the West, with only a tiny number of F2Pers paying any money, which is why providers cannot dump the model outright. They simply would lose too much money if they did so... the demand for subs is huge in terms of business and they simply are not going away. This is why 'F2P' really only means 'extended trial' in most converted games here.

     

     

    The droves of freeloaders that have no intention of ever paying a penny may outnumber sub gamers as they move from game to game with no investment and contributing nothing, but they sure don't pay the providers bills.

     

    My personal thought is that the cash shop fad will see a Zynga size collapse this year in the face of consumer backlash as buyer's remorse kicks in and gamers start to understand how they have been manipulated and rinsed... it will be interesting to see what is left if/ when that happens. If 'cash shop' becomes toxic in the same way P2W is generally then the sub may be all the devs have left to monetize things.

    Whatever side of the fence you fall on, these are interesting times for the MMORPG space.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    Originally posted by Paladrink
    Stop beating a dead horse...
    ...snip Like those people who refuse to buy generic products at the grocery store because they cannot believe that some generic taste better than bran name.  If it cost more it's gotta be a better product, right?

    Having worked in a tomato factory that has operated near 100 years, I can tell you that food does have different grades. My job consisted of sorting tomatoes into their bins. That then determined how they would be processed and who they would be sold to. P.S. Worst job I ever had in my life, they don't throw out half rotten tomatoes, they are resold.

    Brand name food does sometimes offer what generics don't, a proprietary recipe and consistent quality. When you can pay employees more money, you get people interested in the quality of the product and if they aren't then you hire quality testers. Have you ever seen "how it's made" series. They go into factories and often are denied the recipes even though other things are ok to know about the product. A how it's made video.

    Even the country the factory is in can be a factor in the type of water they use for production. Sometimes you should care more about country of manufacture than product name or not. Where the food is produced is the economy you support.

    There are rare times when the food is similar in taste but that only happens the closer you get to raw food. If you can't taste the difference in the recipes of generic and brand named foods then maybe it all goes out the window for you - if that's true then it's your palate leading you away but some can tell. I can tell the difference in Coke and Pepsi, Pepsi is sweeter, Coke has a ginger taste on the backend. Sam's club drinks are less bubbly, less sweet, and have a flowery aftertaste. These, again, are recipe differences.

    When I was young I had a job at Taco Bell and I was adding more cheese than expected on tacos. I was pulled aside and the manager went through all the reasons we don't change the recipe. I thought immediately he was trying to be cheap, that's not the whole of it. Here's the synopsis.

    Person A gets more cheese, likes it, returns and thinks they were gypped when the food isn't the same the next visit.

    Person B gets more cheese, does not like it, returns and avoids that product.

    The recipe has been tested, don't deviate from it and stay consistent because it is expected as the product. That's the advantage brands have that generics deviate from. I've tried a few generic cans of fruits, they were always inconsistent and some had stems and hard things in them. I don't get that when I purchase Dole. Call me a brand whore :P

     

     

     

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    Op....I think a better question would have been....is the mmog genre meeting consumer expectations.
  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf
    Op....I think a better question would have been....is the mmog genre meeting consumer expectations.

    Yeah, in hindsight since a few people said they didn't understand. They thought I meant demand as the things inside the game being acceptable. I was trying to gauge the actual ratio of games available as demand. I thought the text made it clear talking about wanting that information but it didn't turn out to be so.

    Reviewing poll results now.

    70% of participants want to play a sub game over micro-transaction and the number of available sub games was under 10% so it's turning out true that there is interest from those that voted that exceeds at least the general supply percentage of games. That doesn't mean we can't all be funneled into one ultimate game eventually and become the next "wow killer" lol I just don't know that game that would suit all playstyles inside and treat all fairly. Maybe it will come along.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn

     

    Maybe it's worth mentioning what you left outside your quote, that I specifically mentioned two activities within the game that I "love" to do, mining and hauling while being half of the time afk.

    I love kittens too but I dont spent 15 bucks a month in them...

     

    OK lol... you have lost me at kittens. Time to call this one a day I think if that's the kind of reasoning we are heading to.

    I will just take it that you didn't mean to use the word 'love' at all in describing how you feel about playing EvE (because those 2 activies *are* playing EvE...) and assume you meant 'quite enjoy, but not enough to pay for'.

    I'm gonna wish you luck for the future, give you my sympathy for being locked out of something that you quite enjoy for the sake of £2.50 a week, and move on from this little exchange.

    image

     

    Dude, when ever you are being given valid reasons, explained something, or just given opinions about something, you choose to ignore it if it makes sense and cling to something else trying to derail the whole thing, why?

     

    You didnt get you lost at kittens, you simply cling to that so you can again ignore the rest of the post since it makes too much sense and your mission is to argue only, a trend you keep repeating, leave the point outside your quotes and try to concentrate on something out of context when you run out of ammo. You dont win the internets like that, it just makes you a troll?

     

    So lets recap the stuff that makes sense, the stuff you ignored for obvious reasons, the stuff that actually has to do something with payment models instead of few words quoted for derailing purposes only :)

     

    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Maybe it's worth mentioning what you left outside your quote, that I specifically mentioned two activities within the game that I "love" to do, mining and hauling while being half of the time afk. I love the CoD:Zombies but I didnt buy the game because of just one side of the game that I "love" being the zombi "minigame".
    I mentioned I'd prefer B2P because of my play style in EVE, how is B2P not supporting the game with my dollars? I'm willing to spend a single large amount of money to be able to casually play the game. I'm not comfortable paying 15 bucks every month regardless if I play 6 hours or 60 hours that month. Pay by hour would be actually my preferred method but many people dont like it because they feel they are being punished for playing more, the way I see it is I'm not being punished for playing less with PBH.
    I've already paid and supported them, I simply use so small slice of their overall product that I dont find it to be enough raining my money on them constantly. And like I said it's not a problem to me, if the game would be that good I would keep paying, since it's not, the only option is B2P or F2P.
    It isnt a black and white world where a product can only be so good that I pay anything for it, or so bad that I wont touch it in any case. There are a lot of games, movies, and many other products that I pay happily for if the price is right, that's what this sub model stuff is essentially about too.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    Originally posted by Paladrink
    Stop beating a dead horse...
    ...snip Like those people who refuse to buy generic products at the grocery store because they cannot believe that some generic taste better than bran name.  If it cost more it's gotta be a better product, right?

    Having worked in a tomato factory that has operated near 100 years, I can tell you that food does have different grades. My job consisted of sorting tomatoes into their bins. That then determined how they would be processed and who they would be sold to. P.S. Worst job I ever had in my life, they don't throw out half rotten tomatoes, they are resold.

    Brand name food does sometimes offer what generics don't, a proprietary recipe and consistent quality. When you can pay employees more money, you get people interested in the quality of the product and if they aren't then you hire quality testers. Have you ever seen "how it's made" series. They go into factories and often are denied the recipes even though other things are ok to know about the product. A how it's made video.

    While I don't doubt you have an extensive background as a tomato sorter, you seem to be using that experience to give weight to your argument regarding distribution and sales.

    Jem is correct, it is a false assumption. It's both price and brand name bias that drives people to assume one is naturally better than the other. Many of those generic brands and store brands are brand name over-runs or simply being sold in different channels to get around restrictions/limits. They are packaged accordingly and sold at a lower price.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn

     

    Maybe it's worth mentioning what you left outside your quote, that I specifically mentioned two activities within the game that I "love" to do, mining and hauling while being half of the time afk.

    I love kittens too but I dont spent 15 bucks a month in them...

     

    OK lol... you have lost me at kittens. Time to call this one a day I think if that's the kind of reasoning we are heading to.

    I will just take it that you didn't mean to use the word 'love' at all in describing how you feel about playing EvE (because those 2 activies *are* playing EvE...) and assume you meant 'quite enjoy, but not enough to pay for'.

    I'm gonna wish you luck for the future, give you my sympathy for being locked out of something that you quite enjoy for the sake of £2.50 a week, and move on from this little exchange.

    image

     

    Dude, when ever you are being given valid reasons, explained something, or just given opinions about something, you choose to ignore it if it makes sense and cling to something else trying to derail the whole thing, why?

    You didnt get you lost at kittens... /snip

     

    I do stop reading posts when they are heading south though, I must admit. Just like I stopped reading this one here because it's switching towards trying to bait me with personal remarks etc. I am sorry if you feel that you said anything important after this. I wish you the best in whatever you choose to do though and hope you find a game that is amazingly awesome and you feel deserves your money soon :)

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal st clair shores, MIPosts: 809Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Look at a game like WoW...Lets say you started on day 1 in Nov 2004....That means you've played over 8 years....So thats 8x12x15=1440 dollars...Lets say you bought all expansion packs when they were released at 40 bucks apiece...Thats another 160 dollars or so.....So that player has paid 1600 dollars or so (unless they did a year plan or something)......This is why p2p sucks......Everyone looks at it like "Its only 15 dollars" but if you're heavily involved in that MMO its going to end up being a heck of alot more than 15 dollars.....In the meantime you could have played f2ps without paying anything...So lets seee: 1600 dollars or a few dollars to nothing...That isnt a tough decision imo.

    Huh, this makes no sense at all,  if you pay 15 bucks a month for a hobby its worth  it if you play it a few times a week show me a hobby like baseball, basketball, hockey where its this cheap to pay for a hobby???

     

    You claim this so called F2P, well I been a gamer since they came out , I been around P2P, F2P and b2p, p2p, YOU GET

     

    1. a better community

    2. Devs who will spent time on anit cheats (most of the time.)

    3. new content.

    4  etc.

     

    Now F2P.

    1. typically the community   is not so great

    2. cheaters are every where and nothing happens, they just remake a new account and bam

    3. you end up spending more then 15 bucks a month if you play the game alot to get what you want, see most F2P games, yes you can play it, but you are so restricted, I end up subing.

    4. Content is limited.

     

    B2P

    1. You get the game for one price

    2. DEVS add new content and you pay for new content

    3. no sub

     

     

    I'm in the industry before P2P was the way to go, but yes it dying and not because of the DEVS, its because there are so many games now, before we had EQ, AC1 , UO and WOW, and SWG, mainly...

     

    Now we have like 350 games or  more, so alot of people like to play 3 or 4 games during that month, that means over 60 dollars a month, thats crazy also gamers feel guilty  and feel like they wasted money if they do not play game A more then game B.

     

    Well now there is F2P, they can play, and pay as they go, alot of people liked, real gamers, that like Sub based games see a hole in it, they are like well I pay now about 100-200 a month now, what is wrong here to get what I got before anyways because of cash graps, and the community is horrid compared to the old days...

     

    Watch industry is gonna swift again mark my words, to B2P, you can buy the game and thats it, no worrys about  playing the game, play as you will, community will be less and less of cheaters because if caught they will be scared because they have to spend money..

    Most games are going B2P . I laugh when I see gamers say a game fails when it goes F2P, all companys know the market, we are told, make your game tooled for F2P as you design it, no matter what your model is, because it will make it easier to move to that incase P2P does not work out because the demand right now is F2P, now you will start seeing more use B2P.

     

    Defiance, GW1 and GW2, NWN MMO,      Some of the gamers  going more B2P, you will see alot more.... F2P is gonna be like subs very few like subs are in the next few years, and you can say no all you want, its a fact, the industry sees F2P flaws all day long...

     

    F2P is a flawed system.. People who want F2P have no intenetion  on spending money anyways and most are there to ruin the game and cause more problems for DEVS, if you can't afford the game, find a new hobby, because most hobbys cost a heck of alot more.

     

    Baseball when I used to play cost me about 4k a year in equipment, bowling, about 3k or more... So if your spending 1600 a year in subs thats alot less.... I just don't get people who want all my hard work for free today, I see why DEVS go and make Iphone games over MMo's anymore.... More money and less complaining.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Kuinn

     

    Maybe it's worth mentioning what you left outside your quote, that I specifically mentioned two activities within the game that I "love" to do, mining and hauling while being half of the time afk.

    I love kittens too but I dont spent 15 bucks a month in them...

     

    OK lol... you have lost me at kittens. Time to call this one a day I think if that's the kind of reasoning we are heading to.

    I will just take it that you didn't mean to use the word 'love' at all in describing how you feel about playing EvE (because those 2 activies *are* playing EvE...) and assume you meant 'quite enjoy, but not enough to pay for'.

    I'm gonna wish you luck for the future, give you my sympathy for being locked out of something that you quite enjoy for the sake of £2.50 a week, and move on from this little exchange.

    image

     

    Dude, when ever you are being given valid reasons, explained something, or just given opinions about something, you choose to ignore it if it makes sense and cling to something else trying to derail the whole thing, why?

    You didnt get you lost at kittens... /snip

     

    I do stop reading posts when they are heading south though, I must admit. Just like I stopped reading this one here because it's switching towards trying to bait me with personal remarks etc. I am sorry if you feel that you said anything important after this. I wish you the best in whatever you choose to do though and hope you find a game that is amazingly awesome and you feel deserves your money soon :)

    You just proved exactly what I said. I personally didnt need the re-confirmation but thanks anyway :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    F2P is a flawed system.. People who want F2P have no intenetion  on spending money anyways and most are there to ruin the game and cause more problems for DEVS, if you can't afford the game, find a new hobby, because most hobbys cost a heck of alot more.

    Correction. MOST people who want F2P have no intention of spending money. A small minority, the whales, pays a lot.

    It is a symbiotic relationship. The whales subsidize everyone else. The free players are content to the whales.

    And who are you to say what people should do with their hobbies? MIllions of players are playing F2P games everyday without paying a  cent. It works for them. It works for devs. It works for the whales. Why should anyone stop?

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Paladrink
    Stop beating a dead horse...

    this^ i agree.

    sub games failing all over the place and switching to F2P with optional sub because they dont deliver anymore. 

    Do some people exagerate with their demands? absolutely, but that doesnt mean the company is delivering a game worth paying for every month.

    End of topic. 

    Lock this thread please.

    image
  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    You asked two entirely different questions between your title thread and the actual poll question. 

    • Your poll; Do you prefer subscription games to micro-transaction games?
    I answered yes to your poll because I prefer the subscription business model to the micro-transaction/F2P/B2P business model. I feel it is the most honest business model out of them all. Thats not to say I wouldn't mind a good F2P model, or Freemium/B2P, so long as it was cosmetic only and maybe exp/repuation potions. But any game that allows RNG boxes or equipment/money trade through the cashop is a P2W and I can't support that. 
    • As for your thread title; Are subscription games meeting player demand? 

    I would have to say no. The subscription games that have been pumped out have been dreadful in content and playability. We have recieved the same rehashed game over and over again with only  a few tweaks here and there. it all comes down to what environment on a personal level most players want to play in that is causing success and failure at this point. 

    We are starting to see a shift however and I believe 2013-2014 will be very good years for MMO's and gamers in general. We have some amazing tech coming out as well which should really push the genre in a positive way. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

124»
Sign In or Register to comment.