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What right has this game to associate itself either with NWN or D&D in truth?

24

Comments

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fs23otm

    Baldur's Gate was just a FR skin on a Age old gameplay of topdown turn based genre.

    The truth is people who put games down without playing them are idiots. Their opinions mean nothing. These are the same people who judge books by there covers.

    Neverwinter has nothing to do with the other Neverwinter Nights games. It is the most popular area in FR because of Salvatore books

     

    Well, no.

    BG actually used quite a lot of the D&D core mechanics. D&D itself is, ofc, turn based.

    And, yes, we *know* that NW has nothing to do with NWN... that's kind of the point of the whole htread.

    The part in green... who is putting anything down? I am asking questions... not my fault if those questions are uncomfortable for you to answer directly.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Honest question with no malice.

    What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

    Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

    If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

    Totally no malice at all. Nope nope.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

     

    I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

    If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fs23otm

    Baldur's Gate was just a FR skin on a Age old gameplay of topdown turn based genre.

    WoW was just a skin of Warcraft on an MMO body. 

     

    The truth is people who put games down without playing them are idiots. Their opinions mean nothing. These are the same people who judge books by there covers. 

    Neverwinter has nothing to do with the other Neverwinter Nights games. It is the most popular area in FR because of Salvatore books.

    TESO is shaping up to be a great game. I am seeing people complain that it is not true to TES, but it is. You could only explore small kingdoms in the TES games, no different then you can in ESO.

    It's not about judging a book by it's cover, we have tons of videos and information. It's about not having to step in dog crap to know it's dog crap.

    Neverwinter has nothing to do with Neverwinter, only it does.

    Obviously ESO is a TES game because you could only explore small kingdoms. OR IS IT???

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

     

    I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

    If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

    Probobly not.  If the game looks great then yeah, if not then no.  The Duneons and Dragons IP is what keeps me coming back to DDO even though it's a pretty shitty MMO, holding out on update 17 for Neverwinter.  I love the lore and setting of FR and many aspects of D&D which is why I will check out every D&D game.  Same reason why some people will swallow a shit sandbox like Darkfall or Archeage, because it has sandbox and PvP elements.

    People just need to get their panties out of a bundle when it doesn't live up to expectations or how it's not a direct translation.  I accept that IP MMOs are MMOs first and foremost and all are inspired by the IP but will be a different game entirely.  As long as the game is fun then I'll play.

  • gillrmngillrmn ArnhemPosts: 250Member
    Originally posted by nilden
    ...

    It's not about judging a book by it's cover, we have tons of videos and information. It's about not having to step in dog crap to know it's dog crap.

    Neverwinter has nothing to do with Neverwinter, only it does.

    Obviously ESO is a TES game because you could only explore small kingdoms. OR IS IT???

    you need to check your facts first.

    First of all, the series you are talking about is an orange - Neverwinter Nights. See the Nights behind it? It is because WotC didn't allow it to sell as Neverwinter - because WotC owns Neverwinter - they own Faerun too.

    This is apple. This is red. This is called Dungeons and Dragons:Neverwinter

     

    Neverwinter Nights was not the first game in Neverwinter city. WotC also allowed "Neverwinter Online" before Neverwinter Nights.

     

    Its fine and all if you are Neverwinter Nights, but don't bring your own scales and put Oranges when people are talking about apples.

     

    Meet Guavas - the Baldur's Gate series.

    There are Kiwis too - the Planescape Torment Series.

     

    Choose the fruit you like. If you want orange, go and wait for a Neverwinter Nights 3, with "Nights" in them because they cannot have real awesome shiny title like "Neverwinter". And it might not be true - i.e. may not be canon unlike our apple.

     

    Apples Win win!!!

  • BlasphimBlasphim San Diego, CAPosts: 349Member Common


    Originally posted by gillrmn
    Originally posted by nilden ...
    It's not about judging a book by it's cover, we have tons of videos and information. It's about not having to step in dog crap to know it's dog crap. Neverwinter has nothing to do with Neverwinter, only it does. Obviously ESO is a TES game because you could only explore small kingdoms. OR IS IT???
    you need to check your facts first.

    First of all, the series you are talking about is an orange - Neverwinter Nights. See the Nights behind it? It is because WotC didn't allow it to sell as Neverwinter - because WotC owns Neverwinter - they own Faerun too.

    This is apple. This is red. This is called Dungeons and Dragons:Neverwinter

     

    Neverwinter Nights was not the first game in Neverwinter city. WotC also allowed "Neverwinter Online" before Neverwinter Nights.

     

    Its fine and all if you are Neverwinter Nights, but don't bring your own scales and put Oranges when people are talking about apples.

     

    Meet Guavas - the Baldur's Gate series.

    There are Kiwis too - the Planescape Torment Series.

     

    Choose the fruit you like. If you want orange, go and wait for a Neverwinter Nights 3, with "Nights" in them because they cannot have real awesome shiny title like "Neverwinter". And it might not be true - i.e. may not be canon unlike our apple.

     

    Apples Win win!!!


    You forgot peaches: The Icewind Dale games :)

  • gillrmngillrmn ArnhemPosts: 250Member
    Originally posted by Blasphim

     


    ...

     

    You forgot peaches: The Icewind Dale games :)

    Sorry for that :)

     

    And the Daggerdale - which was absolutely bananas!

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ambros123
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

     

    I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

    If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

    Probobly not.  If the game looks great then yeah, if not then no.  The Duneons and Dragons IP is what keeps me coming back to DDO even though it's a pretty shitty MMO, holding out on update 17 for Neverwinter.  I love the lore and setting of FR and many aspects of D&D which is why I will check out every D&D game. 

    So you are following this game simply because of the D&D brand, even though it actually has no D&D in it past a FR skin?

    Interesting, if a little confusing to me on the outside.

    I love D&D, have played it since I was 11 and got the red box, but I don't feel the same way as you do about this I must admit.

    Same reason why some people will swallow a shit sandbox like Darkfall or Archeage, because it has sandbox and PvP elements.

    Well, no... those people are looking for an actual play mechanic... that is completely different then following a game because of a brand slapped on it.

     

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

     

    I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

    If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

    Yes.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Ambros123
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

     

    I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

    If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

    Probobly not.  If the game looks great then yeah, if not then no.  The Duneons and Dragons IP is what keeps me coming back to DDO even though it's a pretty shitty MMO, holding out on update 17 for Neverwinter.  I love the lore and setting of FR and many aspects of D&D which is why I will check out every D&D game. 

    So you are following this game simply because of the D&D brand, even though it actually has no D&D in it past a FR skin? Nope followinjg it for a myriad of reasons, the main one is it isnt a sandbox.

    Interesting, if a little confusing to me on the outside. confusing to you but not to me.

    I love D&D, have played it since I was 11 and got the red box, but I don't feel the same way as you do about this I must admit. im following the game because it has action combat in a D&D universe with the lore and some elements that make the forgotten realms my favorite source material.  Ohh it also has the Foundry, the one thing that will keep fresh content flowing at a steady and daily pace.  You see all I want out of a game is to be able to perpetually run dungeons and collect loot (basically an ARPG or Diablo style game)  but within the context of an MMO using WASD movement, 3rd person perspective and a hotbar for skills and abilities.  SO in my estimation NWO has everything I look for in an MMO except for meaningful housing systems (which Isnt a deal breaker).  If the game was set in another dark gritty midevil style fantasy I would follow it jsut as much, but then IMO it wouldnt do quite as well because an IP especially a good IP will help sell the game more so then a generic fantasy game.

    Same reason why some people will swallow a shit sandbox like Darkfall or Archeage, because it has sandbox and PvP elements.

    Well, no... those people are looking for an actual play mechanic... that is completely different then following a game because of a brand slapped on it. no its not, maybe to you but not to me.  everyone is different.

     

     

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    It has the rights that it purchased to use the IP and setting?

    Neverwinter is a setting in Dungeons and Dragons. The game by Cryptic will be set in Neverwinter, and will follow the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset. See where I am going with this?

    Neverwinter Nights was another game set in Neverwinter, using the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset. Pretty much anyone with any knowledge of that game or even Dungeons and Dragons in general knows that they are not made by the same developers.

    Just like over the years many people have used the Star Wars IP. But noone thinks that the same people who made Star Wars: The Old Republic also made Star Wars Galaxies, dispite them both having Star Wars in the title....

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

     

    I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

    If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

    Yes. The IP means nearly nothing to me, aside from being a good starting point for classes and beastiary.

    What interests me about this game is the following, which is largely irrelevant to the IP:

    - Action combat that has amazing animations and looks fluid

    - Trinity based classes (so that my friend will play with me, refuses to play anything but healer)

    - Player generated content

    - Fantasy setting, which is slightly linked to the IP, but could have been accomplished in other ways

  • ShaudiusShaudius West Lafayette, INPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by nilden
    As someone who played both NWN 1 and 2 and made modules, coded, scripted and built many adventures the foundry looks awesome. As someone who played a lot of AD&D the IP and setting/world are great. Watching the trickster rouge and control wizard class videos was painful. Watching the founders pack video made me never want to touch this.

    The foundry preview(which you've probably seen but perhaps others haven't) is a great palete cleanser for that awful founders pack video.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    From what I have seen of gameplay, this thing is a console game with some user configurability. It won't be a true MMO, nor will it work like PnP Dungeons and Dragons. Better adjust your expectations now.

    It may be a great game, but it won't be something like the campaigns of olde at yon kitchen table.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • gillrmngillrmn ArnhemPosts: 250Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    ...

    - Trinity based classes (so that my friend will play with me, refuses to play anything but healer)

    ...

    - No trinity - there are four roles based on 4e like the first D&D game : controller,defender,striker and leader.

    This part is integrally tied to the IP - of post spellplague NW campaign setting.

  • Arathir86Arathir86 CanberraPosts: 442Member Uncommon

    Ah, NWN... I have fond memories of that game... and even log into it still from time to time, there are still some interesting PW going on to this day. It also reminds me of the good old days when BioWare actually made compelling stories and had good gameplay at the top of their lists... you know, before EA came along and scooped out and discarded all the good things about BioWare and left it to rot like an empty husk.

     

    I think a big part of what Perfect World is trying to do with D&D: Neverwinter, is recapturing what was so great about NWN, and that was being able to create your own content to play with your friends. Unfortunately the Foundry just sounds like a map editor for making Dungeon Crawler campaigns, rather than actual Persistent Worlds like NWN had.

     

    It's a step in the right direction, but I have my doubts about how succesful it will be...

    "The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member

    It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

    Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

    So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • Ulrick28Ulrick28 Redmond, WAPosts: 71Member

    What makes it D&D for me is that it has the module creator (I forget the name of it).  You can create your own dungeons/quests/etc for a party to run through.

     

    PnP D&D is a mixture of the setting, the mechanics (the rules), the ability to play with people, and the ability for the DM to get creative.  Neverwinter is likely different in rules since it's an MMO and not a pencil/paper RPG.  However, from what I have seen it does have the right to call itself D&D and Neverwinter (it has the setting, it has the ability to make your own quests/dungeons, you can play with friends, and it follows the tabletop rules as closely as it can while still being an MMO). 

     

    Now, I could be hugely dissappointed at release (it's happened before with games I was looking forward too).  But so far it looks fairly good and at the very least it's being pretty true to it's license.

     

    (I have not preordered the game and I play tabletop D&D weekly..same group for the last 7 years).  Luckily my fiance also plays in the same group :)

     

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

    Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

    So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

     

    Well, Queen Latifah is not a crap actor by a long stretch, but I understand your point, and I get how branding works...

    We all know branding can be ethical and honest or it can be cynical and dishonest, designed to fool people.

    Which is this?

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    From what I have seen of gameplay, this thing is a console game with some user configurability. It won't be a true MMO, nor will it work like PnP Dungeons and Dragons. Better adjust your expectations now.

    It may be a great game, but it won't be something like the campaigns of olde at yon kitchen table.

    I am probably showing my age here but, there were two sorts of AD&D of course : the PnP stuff you are talking about, and then the dungeon crawls where you had a board, pieces, and a dungeon setup that the dungeon master took you through and it was basically a bash-monster-and-grab-loot fest.

    DDO and this Neverwinter game seem a lot like the latter than the super-involved PnP roleplaying game you are mentioning, yet both have been in AD&D/D&D since... well... the beginning pretty much.

    I admit to preferring the more involved world-based PnP games myself.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • BlackcatZeroBlackcatZero Ottumwa, IAPosts: 46Member
    http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/dd-ultimate-pack/102768 I'm guessing this would be more worth it??
  • BlinkennBlinkenn TNPosts: 116Member Uncommon
    So, its based on the 4e rules that WotC are quickly moving away from in their new D&D Next version, eh? Just all around odd vibes with this.
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by gillrmn
    Originally posted by evilastro
    ...

    - Trinity based classes (so that my friend will play with me, refuses to play anything but healer)

    ...

    - No trinity - there are four roles based on 4e like the first D&D game : controller,defender,striker and leader.

    This part is integrally tied to the IP - of post spellplague NW campaign setting.

     Just because they call it a 'Leader' does not make it any less a healer. The trinity will still hold true in Neverwinter.

    The cleric's power source remains divine, and they fill the role of Leader. Their powers (called prayers) focus on healing, protection and support.

    Devoted Cleric focus on support, ranged combat and Wisdom-based prayers.

    Parties in Neverwinter will most certainly comprise of 'Guardian Warrior, Devoted Cleric... and others'. A trinity. Some might want a controller but that will be optional.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

    Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

    So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

     

    Well, Queen Latifah is not a crap actor by a long stretch, but I understand your point, and I get how branding works...

    We all know branding can be ethical and honest or it can be cynical and dishonest, designed to fool people.

    Which is this?

    kinda hard to say without playing it.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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