Originally posted by Silacoid The people claiming this is a Diablo clone really have no clue about the depth of this game. There are so many things that set it apart. Sockets aren't used for stats but for skill gems and support gems. The classes are so customizable it is crazy, you can be a casting marauder if you so choose. The attribute system is completely different with the skill tree. Every Action RPG isn't a Diablo clone and there is much more beneath the surface to this game than people are giving it credit for here.
if this game isn't a diablo clone then no game is a clone of any other game, period.
yes it has different features just like any other game that has ever been labled a clone of another.
but look at the art style, the entire UI, character selection, waypoints, town portals, the monsters with random elites that have random powers and resists.
i could go on and on. if someone played this game for the first time and it said diablo on the box, they would be convinced it was a diablo game.
i mean, D3 had a completely different way they did stats and skills compared to D2 as well, i fail to see how that makes it not a clone of diablo?
people here even like to say this is the real diablo 3, yet its not a clone??
Originally posted by Thane Originally posted by baphametnot saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.
there is a difference between a ripp off, and the same scheme.
this game has been made by some of the diablo devs.
so obviously they wont change the way they work just because they work under a new flag now.
uh, and btw, this game is what d3 could have been.
(yes, d3's gfx engine is superior, but that's about it)
character selection, the UI, and the overall art style and dark gritty theme of the game is a direct rip off lol
the thing is, many of you think i am hating on this game, i am not in the slightest saying its a bad game or that i don't like that its a diablo clone.
i keep reiterating that and it keeps falling on deaf ears.
my point is its a double standard around here to bash every game because its a "wow clone" or a "GW2 clone" or whatever.
yet this game is praised while being a direct diablo clone. same thing for all sandbox games, people act like sandbox style games are a new and fresh concept and are never mentioned as a clone of any other game.
Why reinvent the wheel when the wheel is not fucking broken and is still round as shit?
Did Blizzard come-up with the whole life/mana on the sides, abilities bar? Fuck no. Get your gaming history right.
Where they the first to make an inventory? Fuck no.
Where they the first to make that character selection screen like that? Almost true.
Path of Exile came, took some good elements and build off of that.
Am I running around saying that most of the writers that work for Blizzard should be sued for copyright infrigement? No, I am not.
The Blizzard games do not have one fucking thing original about them but they all have brilliant gameplay (well, besides Diablo 3 and fucking MoP - Vikings was by far the most original thing they have ever done)
GGG did an amazing job going even further with the concept of the classic ARPG (hack&slash varriant) and made an extremely intelligent game of which depth isn't even smelled by that piss poor of a job that Blizzard called D3.
They came with the core elements from WoW (as a lot of them worked on WoW before D3) and tried to mmorpgize the classic formula and failed beyond reason. That and the writing is done by a highschool freshman or asian geek.
So you have a very complex build system, almost classless with an incredible array of possible builds that transcend common sense. I understand why most of the new Blizzard fans might not enjoy it. Pretty hard to put that thinking cap back on after you've been sucking on the motherload of all training tits.
Originally posted by Purutzil ...So its an ARPG, so obviously its a Diablo clone... I hope at the very least your saying of diablo 2 and not of 3. No offense but its people like you who consider games 'clones' that are in the same genre that really diminish the quality of games out there. There is a difference between a clone and just following the same genre and Path of Exile is not REMOTELY a clone in any form. It fits into the ARPG frame yes but its no where near a clone. I'm quite curious how YOU would of done the game as an ARPG that would make it not a 'clone' cause it would be interesting to see what it takes to make an ARPG not a clone in that style.The term "WoW-Clone" itself is to me the very definition of hypocracy as how it is often compared in ways is a mockery since with their very definition you could easily claim WoW was a clone of Everquest 1. Is it a clone? No. When someone says a game is a clone are they right? No, in most cases they are looking at it in quite an ignorant way which tarnishes their ability to really judge a game. If you can view games as a 'clone' rather then being in a similiar genre or style, you are only setting yourself up for failure in being really able to make a sound judgement about a game and how it handles.
wow was considered an EQ and Daoc clone but with wow it had an entirely different art style, different theme, different characters, among many many pother things.
not saying it wasn't a clone but this game is much more of a rip off of diablo than even wow was of EQ and Daoc.
there is absolutely no way someone would be convinced that wow was the same game as EQ or Daoc.
POE looks exactly like diablo in every way. the overall dark and gritty theme, the art style, the UI is exactly the same, the monsters and the way they did resists and special powers, the randomized elites, town portals, waypoints (yes i am repeating myself here).
seriously, this game is just as much like diablo as it possibly could be.
that goes far and beyond just being a game of the same genre lol
but as far as your last point....
L2read dude, honestly. i am not passing judgment on this game at all.
i am actually playing it right now and enjoying it. but i don't go running around refusing to play games because they are a clone of another, then turning around and playing a direct rip off of diablo and enjoying it LOL
Originally posted by k44mos Why reinvent the wheel when the wheel is not fucking broken and is still round as shit? Did Blizzard come-up with the whole life/mana on the sides, abilities bar? Fuck no. Get your gaming history right. Where they the first to make an inventory? Fuck no. Where they the first to make that character selection screen like that? Almost true. Path of Exile came, took some good elements and build off of that. Am I running around saying that most of the writers that work for Blizzard should be sued for copyright infrigement? No, I am not. The Blizzard games do not have one fucking thing original about them but they all have brilliant gameplay (well, besides Diablo 3 and fucking MoP - Vikings was by far the most original thing they have ever done) GGG did an amazing job going even further with the concept of the classic ARPG (hack&slash varriant) and made an extremely intelligent game of which depth isn't even smelled by that piss poor of a job that Blizzard called D3. They came with the core elements from WoW (as a lot of them worked on WoW before D3) and tried to mmorpgize the classic formula and failed beyond reason. That and the writing is done by a highschool freshman or asian geek. So you have a very complex build system, almost classless with an incredible array of possible builds that transcend common sense. I understand why most of the new Blizzard fans might not enjoy it. Pretty hard to put that thinking cap back on after you've been sucking on the motherload of all training tits.
so how come that "why re-invent the wheel" excuse is never made for a theme park clone?
or is it only a clone if its a game or style of game you don't like?
also, its not like they are just simply using an inventory panel or life and mana on the side.
IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DIABLO GAMES. how many times do i have to say it?
When the product is better than the initial one, fuck yeah.
I see an izometric perspective, a generic hack&slash inventory (as Diablo was the foundation for the genre) and some minor cosmetic similarities and nothing else.
The fact that I pewpew all over the place with my mouse and keyboard, have ice, lighting and fire abilities to throw around has become a bothering factor for ya'?
I can say the same thing about pretty much all games that have ever been made after the D&D macrocosmos and Warhammer empire have been founded.
If we take a road down the memory trip, we will be able to prove that most games released after '95 or so didn't have one original thing about them (refering to the rpg club alone - i don't care about the others). Why? Because most things already have been imagined so far and developers don't give a shit anymore.
But that doesn't apply to PoE because the devs actually tried to pull of something original that actually works. And for that I am impressed.
No more dumbtastic and fucktardic overdone mechanics. There is something new that appeals to my inner core.
Does anybody actually give a shit at this point in time what game ripped off what game? In a blended, regurgitated environment, I have a new, fresh product that promises. It is built on the cores of the founding father of the genre and does it well. A lot fucking better than Blizzard could. After they were bought by Activison, scrapped North and became a corporate sadistic bitch that enjoys to pretend giving fictional blowjobs to old fans but fails as it got old and has Alzheimer's.
The better question is: How would you redo the interface of a hack&slash to optimize the gameplay experience? Are you capable of coming up with different interface elements that would add +benefits to the core experience?
If the answer is negative, then you have your answer to your unasked question.
Originally posted by k44mos When the product is better than the initial one, fuck yeah. I see an izometric perspective, a generic hack&slash inventory (as Diablo was the foundation for the genre) and some minor cosmetic similarities and nothing else. The fact that I pewpew all over the place with my mouse and keyboard, have ice, lighting and fire abilities to throw around has become a bothering factor for ya'? I can say the same thing about pretty much all games that have ever been made after the D&D macrocosmos and Warhammer empire have been founded. If we take a road down the memory trip, we will be able to prove that most games released after '95 or so didn't have one original thing about them (refering to the rpg club alone - i don't care about the others). Why? Because most things already have been imagined so far and developers don't give a shit anymore. But that doesn't apply to PoE because the devs actually tried to pull of something original that actually works. And for that I am impressed. No more dumbtastic and fucktardic overdone mechanics. There is something new that appeals to my inner core. Does anybody actually give a shit at this point in time what game ripped off what game? In a blended, regurgitated environment, I have a new, fresh product that promises. It is built on the cores of the founding father of the genre and does it well. A lot fucking better than Blizzard could. After they were bought by Activison, scrapped North and became a corporate sadistic bitch that enjoys to pretend giving fictional blowjobs to old fans but fails as it got old and has Alzheimer's. The better question is: How would you redo the interface of a hack&slash to optimize the gameplay experience? Are you capable of coming up with different interface elements that would add +benefits to the core experience? If the answer is negative, then you have your answer to your unasked question.
*sigh* no i wouldn't change the UI, personally no i don't see this game being a Diablo rip off as a negative, i like diablo games.
i will tell you what i do see, people always complaining about the bigger companies (like EA, SOE, blizzard) screwing them over and not coming up with anything original, just to maximize their profits.
then those same people (not all of them of course) praise games like POE that are almost a direct copy in style, art, and feel and its not ever mentioned or looked down upon.
same goes with "sand park" style games, they are definitely not a new concept either, yet people never trash them for being clones.
that is the only point i am trying to make and i used this game as an example.
i even went as far to to make it clear in my OP that i wasn't saying this was a bad game by any means because i had just played it for 10 minutes at the time.
i don't go around hating on games because they are clones, that's why i made this thread, because it pretty much shows you that people will just use that as a means to trash a game or style of game they don't like.
then turn around and enjoy another game that is also a direct clone of another game, even more so than most "colones" out there.
other than that i pretty much agree with you, every game has features they borrowed from other games.
but i will say in POE's situation, they are being a lot more blatant about it.
i mean honestly, if they told me that their sole purpose to make POE was to make their own personal version of D3 with different lore, not only would i believe them, i would say they did a good job of it lol
Originally posted by baphamet i mean honestly, if they told me that their sole purpose to make POE was to make their own personal version of D3 with different lore, not only would i believe them, i would say they did a good job of it lol
I think that is exactly what they did, but they could of course never say this in public, but for me POE is the true Diablo Successor.
Originally posted by k44mos Why reinvent the wheel when the wheel is not fucking broken and is still round as shit?
Did Blizzard come-up with the whole life/mana on the sides, abilities bar? Fuck no. Get your gaming history right.
Where they the first to make an inventory? Fuck no.
Where they the first to make that character selection screen like that? Almost true.
Path of Exile came, took some good elements and build off of that.
Am I running around saying that most of the writers that work for Blizzard should be sued for copyright infrigement? No, I am not.
The Blizzard games do not have one fucking thing original about them but they all have brilliant gameplay (well, besides Diablo 3 and fucking MoP - Vikings was by far the most original thing they have ever done)
GGG did an amazing job going even further with the concept of the classic ARPG (hack&slash varriant) and made an extremely intelligent game of which depth isn't even smelled by that piss poor of a job that Blizzard called D3.
They came with the core elements from WoW (as a lot of them worked on WoW before D3) and tried to mmorpgize the classic formula and failed beyond reason. That and the writing is done by a highschool freshman or asian geek.
So you have a very complex build system, almost classless with an incredible array of possible builds that transcend common sense. I understand why most of the new Blizzard fans might not enjoy it. Pretty hard to put that thinking cap back on after you've been sucking on the motherload of all training tits.
so how come that "why re-invent the wheel" excuse is never made for a theme park clone?
or is it only a clone if its a game or style of game you don't like?
also, its not like they are just simply using an inventory panel or life and mana on the side.
IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DIABLO GAMES. how many times do i have to say it?
that is a carbon copy of diablo right there.
You've got to be the only guy on this forum that is surprised by this. No Sh*t it uses many elements from D2; I think the GGG devs did a pretty amazing job at making that as obvious as possible. The thing is, that's what many of us wanted. GGG was able to give us an ARPG that encompasses many of the familiarities of D2, while at the same time adding a ton of innovations that put it in its own class entirely (or do you know of a bunch of other ARPGs that use a bartering system and have passive skill trees with over 1300 abilities?) That's not even getting into the absurd amount of gem combinations.
But that wasn't even the point of your post anyway, was it? You asked why "D2 clone" isn't used as a derogatory title, similar to the way "WoW clone" is. Well, that question has already been answered a few times, but I'll say it again for emphasis - WoW is regarded by many, to be a phenomenal step backwards in the progression of mmorpgs. Many seem to view it as the McDonalds of online gaming, and it's not difficult to see why. I, myself, was a fan of WoW back when it originally released (and still had skill trees worth a damn, as well as the honor system), but given the current state of the game, it's not surprising to me in the least that the term "WoW clone" has been turned into the go-to insult when condemning any mmorpg that attempts to follow in its footsteps.
Diablo 1 and 2, on the other hand, are regarded as the epitome of the ARPG genre by many, and it's that reason alone that the term "D2 clone" has the near opposite meaning when used towards a new competitor in the genre. I'd say it pretty much translates out to be about the biggest compliment an ARPG can get, especially when its developers were obviously heavily inspired and influenced by D2.
So yeah, there's a long drawn out way to say the same thing most of the other guys said in a few sentences.
Now how many of those wow clones are actually worth playing over wow?
And finally, PoE differentiates itself away from diablo enough with its barter system and skill gems essentially alloowing any class to play any role. There is a bigdifference between a shitty wow clone and well executed diablo clone.
You've got to be the only guy on this forum that is surprised by this. No Sh*t it uses many elements from D2; I think the GGG devs did a pretty amazing job at making that as obvious as possible. The thing is, that's what many of us wanted. GGG was able to give us an ARPG that encompasses many of the familiarities of D2, while at the same time adding a ton of innovations that put it in its own class entirely (or do you know of a bunch of other ARPGs that use a bartering system and have passive skill trees with over 1300 abilities?) That's not even getting into the absurd amount of gem combinations.But that wasn't even the point of your post anyway, was it? You asked why "D2 clone" isn't used as a derogatory title, similar to the way "WoW clone" is. Well, that question has already been answered a few times, but I'll say it again for emphasis - WoW is regarded by many, to be a phenomenal step backwards in the progression of mmorpgs.
and i have already addressed that argument a few times as well.
is wow the only game that people refer to when labeling a game a clone?
wow itself was labeled a clone and frowned upon because it directly ripped off features from EQ and Daoc.
were those games considered a "phenomenal step backward" for the genre? i think not.
i also remember in the past when game such as dungeon siege took heat for being a D2 clone.
but the most telling thing of all is your game must be extremely successful in order to have that kind of impact where games are trying to mimic what you are doing.
back in D2's golden years, that was the game that other companies were trying to mimic and so was EQ and Daoc, among a few others.
so yeah, i actually think it has much more to so with people not liking those types of games and using the "clone" label as an excuse to trash it.
Originally posted by Mavek How many wow clones are there vs d2 clones? Now how many of those wow clones are actually worth playing over wow? And finally, PoE differentiates itself away from diablo enough with its barter system and skill gems essentially alloowing any class to play any role. There is a bigdifference between a shitty wow clone and well executed diablo clone.
i do see your point about the amount of games that are "wow clones" vs ARPG games like diablo.
but it all comes down to personal preference. personally, i haven't played wow in years but i have played other theme parks and am currently playing a "wow clone" right now off and on.
so i don't agree that wow is the only game like it worth playing (casually at least), not by a long shot.
I would say that D2 inspired PoE but it's not exactly a clone. It actually does several things differently (i.e, persistent towns, no coin currency, skill gems), passive skill tree).
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Originally posted by Mavek How many wow clones are there vs d2 clones?
Now how many of those wow clones are actually worth playing over wow?
And finally, PoE differentiates itself away from diablo enough with its barter system and skill gems essentially alloowing any class to play any role. There is a bigdifference between a shitty wow clone and well executed diablo clone.
i do see your point about the amount of games that are "wow clones" vs ARPG games like diablo.
but it all comes down to personal preference. personally, i haven't played wow in years but i have played other theme parks and am currently playing a "wow clone" right now off and on.
so i don't agree that wow is the only game like it worth playing (casually at least), not by a long shot.
Because WoW doesn't have the universal praise that the D1/D2LoD franchise does. The pre D3 Diablo franchise is universally associated with positive gaming experiences. D1/D2 are the holy grail of ARPGs. WoW, meanwhile, is an EQ clone and despite being mostly liked, does not carry the universal praise that is always heaped upon D1 & D2.
D1/D2 are not the holy grail of ARPGs, they are only so of the subgenre which is "Point and click"-ARPGs, because there have been multiple excellent action RPGs throughout gaming history. Among those excellent other action RPGs: Demon Souls series, several Castlevania titles, Mana series, several Tales games, Deus Ex, etc.
not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?
not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.
from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)
its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.
whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?
i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.
Because Diablo 1 and 2 were good games, and WoW was a piece of crap.
If it was a D3 clone people would be hating on it, but thankfully it isnt.
Also Diablo was not the first ARPG. The original Gauntlet probably takes that honour. Noone calls Diablo a Gauntlet clone.
not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?
not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.
from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)
its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.
whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?
i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.
great post.
i imagine many on this site read this and then the vein in their forehead throbbed for a good while.
they have no reason. and that is why i consider them bias, irrational, and close-minded.
You've got to be the only guy on this forum that is surprised by this. No Sh*t it uses many elements from D2; I think the GGG devs did a pretty amazing job at making that as obvious as possible. The thing is, that's what many of us wanted. GGG was able to give us an ARPG that encompasses many of the familiarities of D2, while at the same time adding a ton of innovations that put it in its own class entirely (or do you know of a bunch of other ARPGs that use a bartering system and have passive skill trees with over 1300 abilities?) That's not even getting into the absurd amount of gem combinations.But that wasn't even the point of your post anyway, was it? You asked why "D2 clone" isn't used as a derogatory title, similar to the way "WoW clone" is. Well, that question has already been answered a few times, but I'll say it again for emphasis - WoW is regarded by many, to be a phenomenal step backwards in the progression of mmorpgs.
and i have already addressed that argument a few times as well.
is wow the only game that people refer to when labeling a game a clone?
wow itself was labeled a clone and frowned upon because it directly ripped off features from EQ and Daoc.
were those games considered a "phenomenal step backward" for the genre? i think not.
i also remember in the past when game such as dungeon siege took heat for being a D2 clone.
but the most telling thing of all is your game must be extremely successful in order to have that kind of impact where games are trying to mimic what you are doing.
back in D2's golden years, that was the game that other companies were trying to mimic and so was EQ and Daoc, among a few others.
so yeah, i actually think it has much more to so with people not liking those types of games and using the "clone" label as an excuse to trash it.
Yes, WoW incorporated elements from games like EQ and DAoC, but I've never once seen anyone saying it "directly ripped off" anything from either of those games, at least not when it was initially released. Blizzard did what just about any decent developer does when creating a game - utilize existing strengths, while alternating and innovating to their own design. That's what they did, and they obviously did a good job at it. It, in no way, "directly ripped off" anything, and I'm starting to get the feeling you don't even know what you, yourself, mean by that statement. They took some fundamental ideas that harken all the way back to the D&D era, and built upon them in their own way. It was the steamlining and linearity of WoW that people criticized about it and considered a step backward, not what it borrowed from the games before it.
The plethora of games that started coming out, after WoW hit the height of its popularity, were the ones potentially guilty of the "clone" title, as many of them copied the game almost to a T with little to no innovation of their own. It's mmorpgs like that, that are looked down upon because they appear lazy, unimaginative, and likely only designed as a money grab riding on the coattails of the success of another. PoE doesn't fit that mold at all. Just as Blizzard did with WoW, GGG incorporated familiar, favorable elements that were/are popular in the genre, while also adding many of their own unique innovations and systems. It's not simply just a "clone" like you're trying to argue, and it's certainly not a "direct rip off". If you truly believe that, I have to assume you're trolling at this point.
So yeah, I don't know what else you want people to say. You think this game is a "direct rip off" of diablo 2, and it's been explained many times already that that's simply not the case. But screw it, it's not like you're actually going to read and consider anything that contradicts what you're saying, so why not just let this thread die? As it is, the only argument you really have is, "It uses a similar UI, graphics style/atmosphere, as well as a few other mainly cosmetic things, so it's clearly a "D2 clone/rip off", and frankly, that's not a very strong platform to stand on.
not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?
not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.
from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)
its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.
whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?
i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.
great post.
i imagine many on this site read this and then the vein in their forehead throbbed for a good while.
they have no reason. and that is why i consider them bias, irrational, and close-minded.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you didn't read anything past the first post in this thread.
Comments
if this game isn't a diablo clone then no game is a clone of any other game, period.
yes it has different features just like any other game that has ever been labled a clone of another.
but look at the art style, the entire UI, character selection, waypoints, town portals, the monsters with random elites that have random powers and resists.
i could go on and on. if someone played this game for the first time and it said diablo on the box, they would be convinced it was a diablo game.
i mean, D3 had a completely different way they did stats and skills compared to D2 as well, i fail to see how that makes it not a clone of diablo?
people here even like to say this is the real diablo 3, yet its not a clone??
LOL good one!
this game has been made by some of the diablo devs.
so obviously they wont change the way they work just because they work under a new flag now.
uh, and btw, this game is what d3 could have been.
(yes, d3's gfx engine is superior, but that's about it)
character selection, the UI, and the overall art style and dark gritty theme of the game is a direct rip off lol
the thing is, many of you think i am hating on this game, i am not in the slightest saying its a bad game or that i don't like that its a diablo clone.
i keep reiterating that and it keeps falling on deaf ears.
my point is its a double standard around here to bash every game because its a "wow clone" or a "GW2 clone" or whatever.
yet this game is praised while being a direct diablo clone. same thing for all sandbox games, people act like sandbox style games are a new and fresh concept and are never mentioned as a clone of any other game.
yet every single one of them are.
Why reinvent the wheel when the wheel is not fucking broken and is still round as shit?
Did Blizzard come-up with the whole life/mana on the sides, abilities bar? Fuck no. Get your gaming history right.
Where they the first to make an inventory? Fuck no.
Where they the first to make that character selection screen like that? Almost true.
Path of Exile came, took some good elements and build off of that.
Am I running around saying that most of the writers that work for Blizzard should be sued for copyright infrigement? No, I am not.
The Blizzard games do not have one fucking thing original about them but they all have brilliant gameplay (well, besides Diablo 3 and fucking MoP - Vikings was by far the most original thing they have ever done)
GGG did an amazing job going even further with the concept of the classic ARPG (hack&slash varriant) and made an extremely intelligent game of which depth isn't even smelled by that piss poor of a job that Blizzard called D3.
They came with the core elements from WoW (as a lot of them worked on WoW before D3) and tried to mmorpgize the classic formula and failed beyond reason. That and the writing is done by a highschool freshman or asian geek.
So you have a very complex build system, almost classless with an incredible array of possible builds that transcend common sense. I understand why most of the new Blizzard fans might not enjoy it. Pretty hard to put that thinking cap back on after you've been sucking on the motherload of all training tits.
wow was considered an EQ and Daoc clone but with wow it had an entirely different art style, different theme, different characters, among many many pother things.
not saying it wasn't a clone but this game is much more of a rip off of diablo than even wow was of EQ and Daoc.
there is absolutely no way someone would be convinced that wow was the same game as EQ or Daoc.
POE looks exactly like diablo in every way. the overall dark and gritty theme, the art style, the UI is exactly the same, the monsters and the way they did resists and special powers, the randomized elites, town portals, waypoints (yes i am repeating myself here).
seriously, this game is just as much like diablo as it possibly could be.
that goes far and beyond just being a game of the same genre lol
but as far as your last point....
L2read dude, honestly. i am not passing judgment on this game at all.
i am actually playing it right now and enjoying it. but i don't go running around refusing to play games because they are a clone of another, then turning around and playing a direct rip off of diablo and enjoying it LOL
that cracks me the hell up!
so how come that "why re-invent the wheel" excuse is never made for a theme park clone?
or is it only a clone if its a game or style of game you don't like?
also, its not like they are just simply using an inventory panel or life and mana on the side.
IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DIABLO GAMES. how many times do i have to say it?
that is a carbon copy of diablo right there.
When the product is better than the initial one, fuck yeah.
I see an izometric perspective, a generic hack&slash inventory (as Diablo was the foundation for the genre) and some minor cosmetic similarities and nothing else.
The fact that I pewpew all over the place with my mouse and keyboard, have ice, lighting and fire abilities to throw around has become a bothering factor for ya'?
I can say the same thing about pretty much all games that have ever been made after the D&D macrocosmos and Warhammer empire have been founded.
If we take a road down the memory trip, we will be able to prove that most games released after '95 or so didn't have one original thing about them (refering to the rpg club alone - i don't care about the others). Why? Because most things already have been imagined so far and developers don't give a shit anymore.
But that doesn't apply to PoE because the devs actually tried to pull of something original that actually works. And for that I am impressed.
No more dumbtastic and fucktardic overdone mechanics. There is something new that appeals to my inner core.
Does anybody actually give a shit at this point in time what game ripped off what game? In a blended, regurgitated environment, I have a new, fresh product that promises. It is built on the cores of the founding father of the genre and does it well. A lot fucking better than Blizzard could. After they were bought by Activison, scrapped North and became a corporate sadistic bitch that enjoys to pretend giving fictional blowjobs to old fans but fails as it got old and has Alzheimer's.
The better question is: How would you redo the interface of a hack&slash to optimize the gameplay experience? Are you capable of coming up with different interface elements that would add +benefits to the core experience?
If the answer is negative, then you have your answer to your unasked question.
*sigh* no i wouldn't change the UI, personally no i don't see this game being a Diablo rip off as a negative, i like diablo games.
i will tell you what i do see, people always complaining about the bigger companies (like EA, SOE, blizzard) screwing them over and not coming up with anything original, just to maximize their profits.
then those same people (not all of them of course) praise games like POE that are almost a direct copy in style, art, and feel and its not ever mentioned or looked down upon.
same goes with "sand park" style games, they are definitely not a new concept either, yet people never trash them for being clones.
that is the only point i am trying to make and i used this game as an example.
i even went as far to to make it clear in my OP that i wasn't saying this was a bad game by any means because i had just played it for 10 minutes at the time.
i don't go around hating on games because they are clones, that's why i made this thread, because it pretty much shows you that people will just use that as a means to trash a game or style of game they don't like.
then turn around and enjoy another game that is also a direct clone of another game, even more so than most "colones" out there.
other than that i pretty much agree with you, every game has features they borrowed from other games.
but i will say in POE's situation, they are being a lot more blatant about it.
i mean honestly, if they told me that their sole purpose to make POE was to make their own personal version of D3 with different lore, not only would i believe them, i would say they did a good job of it lol
I think that is exactly what they did, but they could of course never say this in public, but for me POE is the true Diablo Successor.
But that wasn't even the point of your post anyway, was it? You asked why "D2 clone" isn't used as a derogatory title, similar to the way "WoW clone" is. Well, that question has already been answered a few times, but I'll say it again for emphasis - WoW is regarded by many, to be a phenomenal step backwards in the progression of mmorpgs. Many seem to view it as the McDonalds of online gaming, and it's not difficult to see why. I, myself, was a fan of WoW back when it originally released (and still had skill trees worth a damn, as well as the honor system), but given the current state of the game, it's not surprising to me in the least that the term "WoW clone" has been turned into the go-to insult when condemning any mmorpg that attempts to follow in its footsteps.
Diablo 1 and 2, on the other hand, are regarded as the epitome of the ARPG genre by many, and it's that reason alone that the term "D2 clone" has the near opposite meaning when used towards a new competitor in the genre. I'd say it pretty much translates out to be about the biggest compliment an ARPG can get, especially when its developers were obviously heavily inspired and influenced by D2.
So yeah, there's a long drawn out way to say the same thing most of the other guys said in a few sentences.
"WoW clone" = "most likely derogatory", "D2 clone" = "most likely complimentary."
How many wow clones are there vs d2 clones?
Now how many of those wow clones are actually worth playing over wow?
And finally, PoE differentiates itself away from diablo enough with its barter system and skill gems essentially alloowing any class to play any role. There is a bigdifference between a shitty wow clone and well executed diablo clone.
This. Or he is just trolling.
and i have already addressed that argument a few times as well.
is wow the only game that people refer to when labeling a game a clone?
wow itself was labeled a clone and frowned upon because it directly ripped off features from EQ and Daoc.
were those games considered a "phenomenal step backward" for the genre? i think not.
i also remember in the past when game such as dungeon siege took heat for being a D2 clone.
but the most telling thing of all is your game must be extremely successful in order to have that kind of impact where games are trying to mimic what you are doing.
back in D2's golden years, that was the game that other companies were trying to mimic and so was EQ and Daoc, among a few others.
so yeah, i actually think it has much more to so with people not liking those types of games and using the "clone" label as an excuse to trash it.
I'm waiting for people like you to actually read posts before you respond.
but using your logic, why call any game a clone? or is it just okay to label the games you don't like a "clone" so you can trash them?
generally speaking, i am not talking about anyone in particular.
This. Or he is just trolling.
because i keep responding? i am sorry, i thought this was a discussion board?
i do see your point about the amount of games that are "wow clones" vs ARPG games like diablo.
but it all comes down to personal preference. personally, i haven't played wow in years but i have played other theme parks and am currently playing a "wow clone" right now off and on.
so i don't agree that wow is the only game like it worth playing (casually at least), not by a long shot.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Which one? There are 467 out there.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
You ever see one of thos movies where a clone becomes stronger or smarter than whoever he was cloned from?
There you go.
D1/D2 are not the holy grail of ARPGs, they are only so of the subgenre which is "Point and click"-ARPGs, because there have been multiple excellent action RPGs throughout gaming history. Among those excellent other action RPGs: Demon Souls series, several Castlevania titles, Mana series, several Tales games, Deus Ex, etc.
Because Diablo 1 and 2 were good games, and WoW was a piece of crap.
If it was a D3 clone people would be hating on it, but thankfully it isnt.
Also Diablo was not the first ARPG. The original Gauntlet probably takes that honour. Noone calls Diablo a Gauntlet clone.
great post.
i imagine many on this site read this and then the vein in their forehead throbbed for a good while.
they have no reason. and that is why i consider them bias, irrational, and close-minded.
Yes, WoW incorporated elements from games like EQ and DAoC, but I've never once seen anyone saying it "directly ripped off" anything from either of those games, at least not when it was initially released. Blizzard did what just about any decent developer does when creating a game - utilize existing strengths, while alternating and innovating to their own design. That's what they did, and they obviously did a good job at it. It, in no way, "directly ripped off" anything, and I'm starting to get the feeling you don't even know what you, yourself, mean by that statement. They took some fundamental ideas that harken all the way back to the D&D era, and built upon them in their own way. It was the steamlining and linearity of WoW that people criticized about it and considered a step backward, not what it borrowed from the games before it.
The plethora of games that started coming out, after WoW hit the height of its popularity, were the ones potentially guilty of the "clone" title, as many of them copied the game almost to a T with little to no innovation of their own. It's mmorpgs like that, that are looked down upon because they appear lazy, unimaginative, and likely only designed as a money grab riding on the coattails of the success of another. PoE doesn't fit that mold at all. Just as Blizzard did with WoW, GGG incorporated familiar, favorable elements that were/are popular in the genre, while also adding many of their own unique innovations and systems. It's not simply just a "clone" like you're trying to argue, and it's certainly not a "direct rip off". If you truly believe that, I have to assume you're trolling at this point.
So yeah, I don't know what else you want people to say. You think this game is a "direct rip off" of diablo 2, and it's been explained many times already that that's simply not the case. But screw it, it's not like you're actually going to read and consider anything that contradicts what you're saying, so why not just let this thread die? As it is, the only argument you really have is, "It uses a similar UI, graphics style/atmosphere, as well as a few other mainly cosmetic things, so it's clearly a "D2 clone/rip off", and frankly, that's not a very strong platform to stand on.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you didn't read anything past the first post in this thread.