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simple fix to open up the lands of Tamriel to all players.

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  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Easiest way to open up the lands of Tamriel to all players: Make 2 alts and don't complain. It's like getting 3 leveling experiences for the price of one game. This makes character choice mean something, let's not completely dumb this game down to WoW clone status before it comes out.

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  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    Originally posted by jacktors
    Just add a PvP switch to allow those people who want to PvP in open world. And they can play the way they enjoy. And the other population of players who just want to pve, they can choose to do so without being harassed. This isn't rocket science.

    They did exactly that in DAoC as well. Had a straight PvP server where all the content was unlocked for all players and a straight PVE server that did the same thing. So who knows? They might just do that.

    well, ONE pvp server and ALOT of PVE server, yea, that's what daoc did :)

    sounded like it was 50/50, which it never was

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • klerkenklerken AarhusPosts: 52Member

    @ OP

    Worst idea ever imo personal opinion, maybe i got the meaning wrong but a flaw imo with the toggle flag is, it gets very easy to spy on people, oh look you can't hit me but i can see where you are and report back to the main party --> organized ganking for those poor saps looking fr PvP, or how about oh you look week/almost dead guess i'll toggle the flag, and just move somewhere else until i can turn it on again.

     

    regarding the different rulesets, it would probable be the way to go, at least until population dropped, if they stick with one "mega" server it might work out ok though. this while being the best idea to  keepi" everyone" happy, adds more maintenance for the different sets, and stuff changed for pvp, could have weird sideeffects on the other servers --> more ressources spent on maintenance

  • MiklosanMiklosan turkuPosts: 176Member
    Originally posted by klerken

    @ OP

    Worst idea ever imo personal opinion, maybe i got the meaning wrong but a flaw imo with the toggle flag is, it gets very easy to spy on people, oh look you can't hit me but i can see where you are and report back to the main party --> organized ganking for those poor saps looking fr PvP, or how about oh you look week/almost dead guess i'll toggle the flag, and just move somewhere else until i can turn it on again.

     

    regarding the different rulesets, it would probable be the way to go, at least until population dropped, if they stick with one "mega" server it might work out ok though. this while being the best idea to  keepi" everyone" happy, adds more maintenance for the different sets, and stuff changed for pvp, could have weird sideeffects on the other servers --> more ressources spent on maintenance

    It's not about spying on people! The dedicated area to PvP is for high level players that must enter the PvP area and by doing so, they are autoflagged for PvP wether they want it or not, period!  You CAN'T go into the pvp area unflagged to spy.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    Some people think if they whine about something long enough and often enough they can browbeat developers into loosing their convictions on what their game should and should not be. I LOVE RACE LOCKING.

    I LOVE the fact you can only fight the opposing faction in areas  that are designated specifically for that purpose.

    So many complain about all the vanilla games.So someone says this game will have some flavor other than vanilla....and the whining begins...again.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    Originally posted by jacktors
    Just add a PvP switch to allow those people who want to PvP in open world. And they can play the way they enjoy. And the other population of players who just want to pve, they can choose to do so without being harassed. This isn't rocket science.

    They did exactly that in DAoC as well. Had a straight PvP server where all the content was unlocked for all players and a straight PVE server that did the same thing. So who knows? They might just do that.

    They actually had 2 of those servers and one of them closed down after a few months (Andred) the other (Mordred) turned into a ghost town because it was obvious thsoe servers attracted the gankers and griefers and anyone who think otherwise are kidding themselves.  No need to do this when the best form of PvP is already being handled within the context of an RvR system.  Anything else is pointless.  Its the reason why there will be no Battlegroudns or Arenas either.  All and let me rephrase it for the thickheaded's here All the PvP takes place in Cyrodill.

    Oh let's hope not. Even in DAOC this proved to be a bad thing, the Frontiers were the territory of the level 50's and while you were forced to go out into them as early as level 20 to complete quests, they were terror filled runs where you quickly completed the main objective and hurried back to the fortress keep before you got ganked.

    To resolve this DAOC implemented level appropriate Battlegrounds (persistant, not instanced) and while they were available for pretty much all levels 1-49, players quickly gravitated to 3 or so main ones. 

    The first was Thidranki as I recall, and the level range was something like 18-24.   Truthfully, due to the usual power imbalances levels cause, showing up at level 18 pretty much ensured you'd spend a lot of time looking for a rez, but some brave souls would do it.    Since it seemed if you were within four levels of the highest player it was pretty balanced most didn't go there until level 20.

    Many players argued that Thidranki was the best PVP DAOC had to offer, fights were easy to find, players were more or less of equal power, and there were few really overpowered skills and abilities that some classes picked up in the higher tiers.

    You gained experience for PVP kills, and initially you could do nothing to prevent leveling out of the tier.  About 5 years in they let players level lock themselves, which was cool in one regard, you could stay in the BG zone of your preference (level 44-49 was another very popular one) indefinitiely, however it inevitably lead to very powerful twinks roaming the land.

    So I have to ask, if TESO has PVP only in Cyrodill, how to they handle the power balance issues of players with more skills/abilities not totally rolling over newer players.

    I can't recall, are there no levels? If so, that would partially solve the problem.  If not, let's hope they didn't forget why DAOC had BG's in the first place, to bring PVP to the newer player.

     

    The only ones who considered Thidranki any good were the players who had no balls to to get to 50. wanted to twink their lowbies, or had zero time to invest in a game.  Basically thidranki was full of WoW kiddies before there were WoW kiddies.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,988Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    Originally posted by jacktors
    Just add a PvP switch to allow those people who want to PvP in open world. And they can play the way they enjoy. And the other population of players who just want to pve, they can choose to do so without being harassed. This isn't rocket science.

    They did exactly that in DAoC as well. Had a straight PvP server where all the content was unlocked for all players and a straight PVE server that did the same thing. So who knows? They might just do that.

    They actually had 2 of those servers and one of them closed down after a few months (Andred) the other (Mordred) turned into a ghost town because it was obvious thsoe servers attracted the gankers and griefers and anyone who think otherwise are kidding themselves.  No need to do this when the best form of PvP is already being handled within the context of an RvR system.  Anything else is pointless.  Its the reason why there will be no Battlegroudns or Arenas either.  All and let me rephrase it for the thickheaded's here All the PvP takes place in Cyrodill.

    Oh let's hope not. Even in DAOC this proved to be a bad thing, the Frontiers were the territory of the level 50's and while you were forced to go out into them as early as level 20 to complete quests, they were terror filled runs where you quickly completed the main objective and hurried back to the fortress keep before you got ganked.

    To resolve this DAOC implemented level appropriate Battlegrounds (persistant, not instanced) and while they were available for pretty much all levels 1-49, players quickly gravitated to 3 or so main ones. 

    The first was Thidranki as I recall, and the level range was something like 18-24.   Truthfully, due to the usual power imbalances levels cause, showing up at level 18 pretty much ensured you'd spend a lot of time looking for a rez, but some brave souls would do it.    Since it seemed if you were within four levels of the highest player it was pretty balanced most didn't go there until level 20.

    Many players argued that Thidranki was the best PVP DAOC had to offer, fights were easy to find, players were more or less of equal power, and there were few really overpowered skills and abilities that some classes picked up in the higher tiers.

    You gained experience for PVP kills, and initially you could do nothing to prevent leveling out of the tier.  About 5 years in they let players level lock themselves, which was cool in one regard, you could stay in the BG zone of your preference (level 44-49 was another very popular one) indefinitiely, however it inevitably lead to very powerful twinks roaming the land.

    So I have to ask, if TESO has PVP only in Cyrodill, how to they handle the power balance issues of players with more skills/abilities not totally rolling over newer players.

    I can't recall, are there no levels? If so, that would partially solve the problem.  If not, let's hope they didn't forget why DAOC had BG's in the first place, to bring PVP to the newer player.

     

    The only ones who considered Thidranki any good were the players who had no balls to o get to 50. wanted to twink their lowbies, or had zero time to invest in a game.  Basically thidranki was full of WoW kiddies before there were WoW kiddies.

    LOL, if you had any

     

    balls you played on Mordred, not some care bear blue server.

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  • ErifNevowErifNevow Pasadena, MDPosts: 97Member
    Apologies in advance if my lack of research leads to some false assumptions or thoughts.

    I know this argument sounds... strange-ish in an MMO argument, but frankly it seems to me it'd be a bit lore-breaking. Your character is playing for his or her alliance. Even if not, they are of a race that's in the opposing alliance. And if things are as cut-and-dry as I assume they are, the factions are pretty race-exclusive. And just look at Skyrim for racism in the world of Tamriel. The treatment of the dark elves in Windhelm for one.

    So personally, my solution would be to force people to hide from guards, soldiers, and other players. So you could go to more remote regions no problem, but you couldn't use shops of services. Possibly include black market merchants, but at reduced cost efficiency.

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  • pinktailzpinktailz internet, ALPosts: 61Member Uncommon

    simple fix it is 

    1) return in the past

    2) find TS father

    3) sterilize it before it met TS mother

    4) we have no stupid topic on forum YAY!

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Clawzon
    Originally posted by fs23otm
    Originally posted by Alberel
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Oh, look! The PvE-only players want to play special snowflake again. Sweet.

    Bad idea.

    I have a feeling plenty of the people against locking regions to specific factions are all for the PvP... they're just against pointless restrictions on content that will make the game seem pathetically small. You don't have to be PvE-only to dislike the idea.

    Pathetically SMALL?

    Are you crazy?

    Skyrim was huge... guess what Ebonheart also got Morrowind, Black Marshes and Cyrodiil to explore... that is 4 TES games worth of material.

    All sides will have huge areas to play in...

    SWTOR did not only make Kotor 3 but also 4, 5, 6, 7,8.......... and ended up miserably because it was not a seamless game! People were locked out from eachother. You had to roll a Jedi to be able to explore the Tython planet even if you hated the Jedis since your main character and other alts were Siths!!

     

    Someone mentioned pvp, pve and rp servers and I tend to agree!

     

    There are thousends of game outthere to play, why do I play mmo's?? Because I want a virtual world to spend my freetime in once in a while.

    Yet what was the biggest argument against leveling an alt in swtor? Thats right having to repeat content/going to the same planets/zones, teso is removing that complaint for at least 3 of your alts

    That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, by your theory SWTOR should have REDUCED the amount of accessible planets? LOL.

    SWTOR would have needed at least 10 more planets with alternative leveling zones, or create each planet with 1-50 zones (which would have made a LOT more sense).

    Secluding a whole planet at a certain level range is absolutely stupid anyway. Look how much better it is done in Age of Conan, if you want you could level 4 characters in different countries and never visit a land twice if you want. 1-20 Tortage, 21-80 zones in Stygia, Aquilonia, Kithai, Cimmeria, yet you can decide at any point to level in another country! THAT´S how TESO should do it. Want to level in a different country? No problem in AoC, why does it have to be a problem in TESO?

    AoC has complete travel freedom without a faction lock

    http://ageofconan.com/world/locations  

    it should also be like this in TESO

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  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,742Member Uncommon
    Sometimes when I read about what you guys write about DAoC I cannot help but wonder at the mythic proportions it reached in your minds.

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yeah and Aoc has poor pvp. It's basicly a wow style raid grinder these days.
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Clawzon
    Originally posted by fs23otm
    Originally posted by Alberel
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Oh, look! The PvE-only players want to play special snowflake again. Sweet.

    Bad idea.

    I have a feeling plenty of the people against locking regions to specific factions are all for the PvP... they're just against pointless restrictions on content that will make the game seem pathetically small. You don't have to be PvE-only to dislike the idea.

    Pathetically SMALL?

    Are you crazy?

    Skyrim was huge... guess what Ebonheart also got Morrowind, Black Marshes and Cyrodiil to explore... that is 4 TES games worth of material.

    All sides will have huge areas to play in...

    SWTOR did not only make Kotor 3 but also 4, 5, 6, 7,8.......... and ended up miserably because it was not a seamless game! People were locked out from eachother. You had to roll a Jedi to be able to explore the Tython planet even if you hated the Jedis since your main character and other alts were Siths!!

     

    Someone mentioned pvp, pve and rp servers and I tend to agree!

     

    There are thousends of game outthere to play, why do I play mmo's?? Because I want a virtual world to spend my freetime in once in a while.

    Yet what was the biggest argument against leveling an alt in swtor? Thats right having to repeat content/going to the same planets/zones, teso is removing that complaint for at least 3 of your alts

    That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, by your theory SWTOR should have REDUCED the amount of accessible planets? LOL.

    SWTOR would have needed at least 10 more planets with alternative leveling zones, or create each planet with 1-50 zones (which would have made a LOT more sense).

    Secluding a whole planet at a certain level range is absolutely stupid anyway. Look how much better it is done in Age of Conan, if you want you could level 4 characters in different countries and never visit a land twice if you want. 1-20 Tortage, 21-80 zones in Stygia, Aquilonia, Kithai, Cimmeria, yet you can decide at any point to level in another country! THAT´S how TESO should do it. Want to level in a different country? No problem in AoC, why does it have to be a problem in TESO?

    AoC has complete travel freedom without a faction lock

    http://ageofconan.com/world/locations  

    it should also be like this in TESO

    Actually swtor would have had less problems if they had more faction exclusive content, part of their end game was relient on people rolling alts and the biggest complaint about that was repatition, because even if you rolled the oposing faction 90 of the content was the same, just different quest givers.

     

    Aoc was no more succesful than swtor

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    People seem to think they are taking a swtor / tsw etc.. sized game world and dividing it by 3. Daoc as a big game, at least 3 times the size of these modern mmos. It had 41 dungeons for a start, tsw has 9, swtor probably has something simmilar, what about vanilla rift, gw2 etc.. certainly not that many. It's the reason gw2 has server vs server and tsw let's everyone pve together, it saves them money, they can channel everyone through exactly the same pve content, its a way if doing rvr on the cheap. Now will TESO be as big world wise as daoc, only time will tell.
  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Yeah and Aoc has poor pvp. It's basicly a wow style raid grinder these days.
    BS, there is MUCH more PvP content in Age of Conan than in the average MMOs, on the PvP servers you get open world PvP with dropping crates and renown system, murder points,  you can get attacked everywhere if there are no guards close and there are also different PvP minigames/warzones plus dedicated PvP areas and guild sieges.  And there is also the extreme Deathwish server where you can only have 1 character to level up and enjoy corpse looting PvP everywhere. Leveling is really fast and the quests are fun, a lot less "grindy" than SWTOR.
     
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Sometimes when I read about what you guys write about DAoC I cannot help but wonder at the mythic proportions it reached in your minds.
    DAoC = Dark Age of Camelot, AoC = Age of Conan, I wrote about Age of Conan
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    People seem to think they are taking a swtor / tsw etc.. sized game world and dividing it by 3. Daoc as a big game, at least 3 times the size of these modern mmos. It had 41 dungeons for a start, tsw has 9, swtor probably has something simmilar, what about vanilla rift, gw2 etc.. certainly not that many. It's the reason gw2 has server vs server and tsw let's everyone pve together, it saves them money, they can channel everyone through exactly the same pve content, its a way if doing rvr on the cheap. Now will TESO be as big world wise as daoc, only time will tell.
     

    I´ll eat my hat if TESO will be bigger than Age of Conan at launch, and here you can go to every faction leveling zones- Connection map here, and most of these zones are HUGE.

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?rgnkeavb33nv38g

     

    Bottomline, by locking areas to factions, TESO wants you to level up 3 characters to see everything, they are buying time by making people invest more time into ALTs, same like SWTOR. You´´ll stay 3 times longer in game than being able to see everything with ONE character. 

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  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member

    AoC was tiny at launch and a lot of the pvp systems werent working

     

    I played the game at launch, it wasnt near to what your making it out to be

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    From hell
    Forts STILL don't work in Aoc
    Bori is just everyone running around pve capping shit.
    Since Morrison took over, Aoc has prioritised raiding, introduced wow style gear and generally took the game in a pve direction.

    And get ready to eat your hat.
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Fishmitts
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    People find anything and everthing to complain about. Maybe I want to enjoy rerolling a character and not have to fun through the same starting areas over and over again. People complained about there being only one path in RIFT non stop. 

     

    Face it. No matter what Zenimax does with TESO people will be bitching

    Of course, its called nerd rage. And its been a constant. when zork was rubbing two sticks to make a fire, zook was over his shoulder bitching he was, "doing it wrong". Hence the term : "Flame wars". Google it.

    Actually the concern raised - that with ne character you cannot see the whole of the game world, is an entirely valid one. It's rare in MMOs and has never happened before in a TES game.

    Your rather purile dissmissal of it simply as 'nerdrage' does you no credit at all.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion - as long as they retain a modicum of respect for those opinions they don't agree with yes?

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    From hell
    Forts STILL don't work in Aoc
    Bori is just everyone running around pve capping shit.
    Since Morrison took over, Aoc has prioritised raiding, introduced wow style gear and generally took the game in a pve direction.

    And get ready to eat your hat.

    Hah!

    Don't get me started with the terrible realisation of the huge promise that is/was AoC!

    Biggest online dissapointment for me since I had a date with a woman who's every picture had all been photo-shopped up the wazoo...

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

    As I have stated on other threads - the war has been limted to the contested area - Cyrodil.

    In ANY FFA war the home faction areas would be prime targets for disruption of supply etc. to boost the chances of winning in the contested area.

    But it isn't happening at all in the game...

    ... so there must have been a treaty of some kind - perhaps to reduce the damage of war in what is in-effect a fairly civilised 'succession wrangle', OR perhaps because Molag is too much of a threat to everyone that an 'all out' war is regarded as playing into his hands.

    Either way - there is some kind of agreement to restrict the war to Cyrodil.

    This is precisely the caveat which could be used to open the other regions up to opposing faction players.

    Visitors could be allowed under the terms of the treaty. Sure they couldn't access services and vendors and wouldn't be offered faction-only quests etc. but they could be allowed access.

    Throw in some different interraction voiceovers for opposing faction members ('I won't do business with a damn Nord whilst the Queen says so..." etc.) and it could work well enough.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    oops! posted in the wrong thread

     

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Just drop the megaserver and have servers with different rulesets. This mega server limits them as they can't have multiple rulesets, not only that but with the ruleset they choose (core), the mega server will break it anyway with cross realm cheesers.

    Rvr servers for those that like both pve and pvp but not together with faction locks
    Pvp servers where you can go anywhere and fight anyone
    Pve servers where you can go anywhere, group / guild with anyone and pvp rewards are removed.

    I'm with this, instead of the OP's idea. Drop the Mega server and give us servers with different rulesets.

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