One of my concerns is the extent that PvP is going to dictate what is done in the game. Another is that with the rabid following of the original DAOC system, if TES system isn't a carbon copy of that (with updated graphics) certain parties will go into hysterics.
Payment model. Make it B2P + cash shop with only cosmetic items, bag slots, character slots, and temporary boosts from day 1.
End game PvE gear impacting RvR. I'm fine with having to level to 50 to achieve my maximum potential in RvR, but if it's yet another game where every time the devs add a new PvE gear tier, you have to go do the new PvE and redo your gear template to compete in RvR, then count me out. Being good at PvP doesn't help you do PvE instances and raids, so why does every game make PvE raiding make you better at PvP? Make the separation between the two go both ways.
RvR incentives, rewards, and progression. Basically copy the way DAOC does it and don't copy WAR, GW 2, and any other MMO that has tried RvR and flopped at it. RvR should be a sandbox where you are rewarded for player kills. There can be keeps, towers, relics, etc., but the game shouldn't push you to take them by making them the only way to get rewards. And at all costs avoid having it be rewarding to avoid PvP conflict and take turns capturing undefended keeps.
Wraith, meddy: Well most of these games did it wrong Gw2 no rivalry, easy to swap to winning side War only 2 sides, resting campaign, to easy to reinforce Tsw too chummy in pve, too easy to power level by trading Aion ultimately about accessing raids, only 2 sides.
But games have got it right too. Like both planetsides
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)
That is the crux of it all, isn't it? TES:O decided to appeal to DAoC players, NOT The Elder Scroll fans
I've been playing elder scrolls games from 2002 onwards, didnt start playing mmo's until CoH in 03/04, this game apeals to me (and my friends who dont play mmo's at all) just fine, just because YOU do not like some of the the things the game has to offer does not make those that do any less a fan
Originally posted by fs23otm My conerns is the negative nancy's on this forum. People who whine, complain, and judge before a game is even released.
We're not the only ones who are whining, complaining and judging before the game is released. Bethesda has always welcomed fan suggestions and comments. We are posting our concerns and then you folks come here to whine, complain and insult us because of our opinions. You guys already love the game and you haven't even played it - how is that different from us having issues with facts they've released?
1. Basic gameplay doesn't feel fluid and responsive and has awkward/glitchy animations.
2. RvR that sucks rather than being like DAoC (or close enough - or something better)
3. PvE content too easy so you watch TV while playing rather than being immersed in the game.
4. Too many immersion-breaking things such as inexplicable teleportation and rampant use of phasing.
5. Combat not being deep enough to have longevity with the more "action-based" approach.
6. Each faction having the same classes rather than unique ones like in DAoC.
7. Super flashy anime-style combat animations with showers of light and colours for non-magic abilities.
8. Load screens when moving around inside each province.
9. Load screens entering buildings.
10. On-the-spot respeccing where your warrior character, with previously no magic experience, out of nowhere begins to cast healing spells on the rest of the party. Diablo 3 style lack-of-character-development style character setups, essentially.
Hm isnt 6. out of the list already? Didnt they say there will be assymetric classes? I thought I heard something about it...
I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
Originally posted by donjuanagain I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
Faction locks are not speculation. We are talking about information already released.
Originally posted by donjuanagain I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
You understand the word concern right? We are CONCERNED about how the game will be. Any sane TES fan should be.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
My only real concern at the moment is if they read these forums. So many bad ideas, so little time.
Well that and a bad release version, that generally kills most MMOs before they get started.
I agree with the bad ideas on these forums. Too many people that think their ideas will make the game better when I'm betting, it will make the game worse. We have seen what happens when game companies listen to forum dwellers. I'm hoping for a polished release. I will worry about the rest once it has had it's retail release.
Originally posted by donjuanagain I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
Faction locks are not speculation. We are talking about information already released.
Information that could very well change. Until there is a "finished" product in hand, then nothing is set in stone.
Originally posted by donjuanagain I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
You understand the word concern right? We are CONCERNED about how the game will be. Any sane TES fan should be.
Just because he/she is not going to worry or be "concerned" over it now, makes sense to me. I think that is the wise way to go. I am another that is not going to worry or be concerned until it has had it's retail release. You and the rest are free to be "concerned" all you want, not everyone will be. You might want to start counting those gray/grey hairs if something like this causes so much concern.
Originally posted by donjuanagain I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
Faction locks are not speculation. We are talking about information already released.
Information that could very well change. Until there is a "finished" product in hand, then nothing is set in stone.
Some of us like to see what it is before laying out $60 US. When you buy TES:O, "just to see if you like it", they have your money. That is what they want
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by donjuanagain I have no concerns about a game that isnt even out yet. I will more than likely try this game as I love the Elder Scrolls. After that, I can voice my concerns/dislikes then. Speculating is like premature ejaculating. You have skipped to the end right off the bat without having a chance to experience everything from the beginning and you make yourself look dumb in the process.
Faction locks are not speculation. We are talking about information already released.
Information that could very well change. Until there is a "finished" product in hand, then nothing is set in stone.
What difference does that make? We're still talking about information that they have already released. If they was going to change it (which I doubt very seriously they will) it would be because players have complained about it.
Not concern with anything this game has to offer. What I have seen so far anyways.
Ill try it, if its fun Ill play it.
You guys take MMOs way to serious. Its a freaking game.
same.. ill try it if it's fun ill play it.. i don't need to live in a game for years for it to be a great game// hell if i get more than a month or twos enjoyment nowadays from a game i consider it good:)
My only real concern is combat flow.... it's hard to tell from the videos i have seen but some videos the fighting looked a little off but who knows could be completely wrong once i get my hands on it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My biggest concern is the mega server idea. There is just something about not having an open persistant world that is bothering me, and it's not just this game. Maybe playing WoW spoiled me forever, but I like the idea of minimal loading screens, being able to go anywhere anybody else on the server can go at pretty much any time, and developing player communities/economics unique to your own server. I mean even take a game like GW2 for instance - I think it ihas a beautiful world, but it doesn't feel like a world to me. I can't walk out of Lion's Arch all the way down to Orr without a loading screen (or possibly getting stuck into an overflow server) like I can in WoW walking out of Org down to Silithus (although CRZ tarnished this anyway, but thats a different argument).
To me the most basic concept of the MMORPG (the virtual world and being immersed) has taken a step backward in the last few years with recent titles, and they feel more like console games. They are decent/good games that are worth the purchase price, but they don't have the staying power I was used to having with older games. I might buy it, but I'd be surprised that I stick around after 6 months. I'm already gettting pretty tired of GW2 5 months in, and a lot of it has to do with this. Again, worth the purchase, but it just isn't worth a 4-5 year investment for me like older titles.
1. Faction lock can be good or bad depending on how they do it. They did set the lore to a time period where racial alegence was based on factions, not the morrowind/oblivion/skyrim age where basically all races are created equal and can join any faction. I'll be fine with this system as long as it feels right and it keeps the lore immersive. I don't want racial factions just for the sake of racial factions.
2. I agree completely here. The game has to be immersive from the get-go. I'm all for DAOC-style end game RVR, in fact, that was my first and favorite MMO which I still play from time to time. But this is an Elder Scrolls game... If you make the immersion bad, you will lose the majority of your Elder Scrolls fan base and be left with a couple hundred straggler misfits wishing for better days.
3. If this game has RVR like DAOC, it will be great. They have to remember that RVR encompased a ton of different things though: not just seiges (many other MMOs have tried this) and not just classes. There has to be a reason to engage in RVR and you have to feel proud to be a part of your faction. Otherwise this won't work.
4. As others have mentioned, Morrowind and Oblivion both had classes. They were loose classes and you could even create custom classes (which I always did). I actually liked the system for role playing purposes, especially since it was just a starting point. My main concern is if you are going to have really loose classes, at least make most of the skills in the game viable. I really like the fact that in Morrowind I could replay the game many times over using different skill sets and still be viable. The same goes with RVR. If you have one skill set that is vastly superior to other skills (see Darkfall) everyone will use the same thing and the game will be boring.
5. DAOC had player housing. They definitely can do this and will eventually I'm sure.
6. As a long time Elder Scrolls fan (Morrowind is still my favorite game of all time), I really really hope this game doesn't suck.
I have been arguably a huge skeptic of TESO. Hell back at announce I started the FB betrayal page. Ive cooled down but I still have some concerns.
1. Faction Lock. Now I know the PVPers will come in here and say its necessary for pvp but I ask you wouldnt 3 OPEN factions which you have the chance to join net the same thing? Hypothetically, what if there was 3 factions who are all race mixed but wanna rule Tamriel for different reasons? Why cant I as a Bosmer pick one of those three instead of being forced into one? Also this is terrible for a lot of guilds mine included, none of us can agree on which faction to roll.
2. If I remember correctly in one of the videos a dev said once you get to 50 the game really opens up. This implies that leveling isnt really all that important. Why cant leveling be jsut all relevent as cap? This is why I now support level less games.
3. What if RVR sucks? This is a PVP focused game after all and what if the RvR is abysmal?
4. Classes, now I know they are loose classes by why have them to begin with? Why cant you be like Skyrim allowing you to level up skills and mixing them together?
5. Announcement seemed more like Damage Control for the incoming Shit storm. If I remember correctly they said Player housing wasnt possible and neither was true action combat. Even though weve seen both work and work well.
6. Obvious wow clone worries. The western dev market has been pretty bleak the recent years. With either devs releasing to early or releasing blatant wow clones.
What do you guys think? What are your concerns? Now please be constructive with any feedback you have. I dont want this turning into a fanboy vs hater thread.
I agree with everything you added, and I have one more of my own.
You already mentioned WoW clone worries, such as quest hub to quest hub questing, but my additional worry is GW2 cloning. They've already admitted to wanting to clone GW2's hotbar/skills combat, and their dynamic event system. I honestly see no reason why we can't go with the same quest system that TES games had. No markers above NPC's heads to designate a quest start location, so you pick up quests through normal exploration and by talking to every NPC.
Then there's the whole thing of Zenimax violating the integrity of the franchise by changing the way the elves look to appeal to a larger market.
Comments
phasing / instancing / dungeon finders
but my dislikes - will be likes for other players
EQ2 fan sites
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Well most of these games did it wrong
Gw2 no rivalry, easy to swap to winning side
War only 2 sides, resting campaign, to easy to reinforce
Tsw too chummy in pve, too easy to power level by trading
Aion ultimately about accessing raids, only 2 sides.
But games have got it right too.
Like both planetsides
I hope no seperation between pve and pvp gear.
Plus i hope theres enough ongoing progression.
Theres only 1 type of gear. The best gear can be found in PvP, PvE and Crafting.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I've been playing elder scrolls games from 2002 onwards, didnt start playing mmo's until CoH in 03/04, this game apeals to me (and my friends who dont play mmo's at all) just fine, just because YOU do not like some of the the things the game has to offer does not make those that do any less a fan
We're not the only ones who are whining, complaining and judging before the game is released. Bethesda has always welcomed fan suggestions and comments. We are posting our concerns and then you folks come here to whine, complain and insult us because of our opinions. You guys already love the game and you haven't even played it - how is that different from us having issues with facts they've released?
Hm isnt 6. out of the list already? Didnt they say there will be assymetric classes? I thought I heard something about it...
Not concern with anything this game has to offer. What I have seen so far anyways.
Ill try it, if its fun Ill play it.
You guys take MMOs way to serious. Its a freaking game.
Faction locks are not speculation. We are talking about information already released.
You understand the word concern right? We are CONCERNED about how the game will be. Any sane TES fan should be.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I agree with the bad ideas on these forums. Too many people that think their ideas will make the game better when I'm betting, it will make the game worse. We have seen what happens when game companies listen to forum dwellers. I'm hoping for a polished release. I will worry about the rest once it has had it's retail release.
Information that could very well change. Until there is a "finished" product in hand, then nothing is set in stone.
Just because he/she is not going to worry or be "concerned" over it now, makes sense to me. I think that is the wise way to go. I am another that is not going to worry or be concerned until it has had it's retail release. You and the rest are free to be "concerned" all you want, not everyone will be. You might want to start counting those gray/grey hairs if something like this causes so much concern.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
What difference does that make? We're still talking about information that they have already released. If they was going to change it (which I doubt very seriously they will) it would be because players have complained about it.
same.. ill try it if it's fun ill play it.. i don't need to live in a game for years for it to be a great game// hell if i get more than a month or twos enjoyment nowadays from a game i consider it good:)
My only real concern is combat flow.... it's hard to tell from the videos i have seen but some videos the fighting looked a little off but who knows could be completely wrong once i get my hands on it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My biggest concern is the mega server idea. There is just something about not having an open persistant world that is bothering me, and it's not just this game. Maybe playing WoW spoiled me forever, but I like the idea of minimal loading screens, being able to go anywhere anybody else on the server can go at pretty much any time, and developing player communities/economics unique to your own server. I mean even take a game like GW2 for instance - I think it ihas a beautiful world, but it doesn't feel like a world to me. I can't walk out of Lion's Arch all the way down to Orr without a loading screen (or possibly getting stuck into an overflow server) like I can in WoW walking out of Org down to Silithus (although CRZ tarnished this anyway, but thats a different argument).
To me the most basic concept of the MMORPG (the virtual world and being immersed) has taken a step backward in the last few years with recent titles, and they feel more like console games. They are decent/good games that are worth the purchase price, but they don't have the staying power I was used to having with older games. I might buy it, but I'd be surprised that I stick around after 6 months. I'm already gettting pretty tired of GW2 5 months in, and a lot of it has to do with this. Again, worth the purchase, but it just isn't worth a 4-5 year investment for me like older titles.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Stay Skeptical!
1. Faction lock can be good or bad depending on how they do it. They did set the lore to a time period where racial alegence was based on factions, not the morrowind/oblivion/skyrim age where basically all races are created equal and can join any faction. I'll be fine with this system as long as it feels right and it keeps the lore immersive. I don't want racial factions just for the sake of racial factions.
2. I agree completely here. The game has to be immersive from the get-go. I'm all for DAOC-style end game RVR, in fact, that was my first and favorite MMO which I still play from time to time. But this is an Elder Scrolls game... If you make the immersion bad, you will lose the majority of your Elder Scrolls fan base and be left with a couple hundred straggler misfits wishing for better days.
3. If this game has RVR like DAOC, it will be great. They have to remember that RVR encompased a ton of different things though: not just seiges (many other MMOs have tried this) and not just classes. There has to be a reason to engage in RVR and you have to feel proud to be a part of your faction. Otherwise this won't work.
4. As others have mentioned, Morrowind and Oblivion both had classes. They were loose classes and you could even create custom classes (which I always did). I actually liked the system for role playing purposes, especially since it was just a starting point. My main concern is if you are going to have really loose classes, at least make most of the skills in the game viable. I really like the fact that in Morrowind I could replay the game many times over using different skill sets and still be viable. The same goes with RVR. If you have one skill set that is vastly superior to other skills (see Darkfall) everyone will use the same thing and the game will be boring.
5. DAOC had player housing. They definitely can do this and will eventually I'm sure.
6. As a long time Elder Scrolls fan (Morrowind is still my favorite game of all time), I really really hope this game doesn't suck.
I agree with everything you added, and I have one more of my own.
You already mentioned WoW clone worries, such as quest hub to quest hub questing, but my additional worry is GW2 cloning. They've already admitted to wanting to clone GW2's hotbar/skills combat, and their dynamic event system. I honestly see no reason why we can't go with the same quest system that TES games had. No markers above NPC's heads to designate a quest start location, so you pick up quests through normal exploration and by talking to every NPC.
Then there's the whole thing of Zenimax violating the integrity of the franchise by changing the way the elves look to appeal to a larger market.