Because that answer already was given "crafting has meaning - crafted gear will not lose to its "drops" counterparts"
So... no, you dont need to pve to pvp.
Also if the daoc philosophy is maintained, in daoc you didnt need to pve to pvp. Actually the best of the best gear that you could ever possibly get to pvp was/ HAD to be crafted. I remember spending 100 plats on a chain vest. Gemmed... enchanted... and still YOU DIED!!!
If they were really copying daoc they would have some servers with this system and other servers where you can everywhere and group with who you like, some with pvp flagged everywhere some with no pvp at all.
Don't blame daoc for their stupid decision to make this megaserver and lock everyone into one ruleset.
I'm a little iffy on the fact that a level 10 will "statjump" in PvP (I think I just made that up) so that they are able to participate with the big boys. How is that going to work? Do the higher levels get a debuff when fighting a lower class enemy? Or like I said, a statjump.
I have been arguably a huge skeptic of TESO. Hell back at announce I started the FB betrayal page. Ive cooled down but I still have some concerns.
1. Faction Lock. Now I know the PVPers will come in here and say its necessary for pvp but I ask you wouldnt 3 OPEN factions which you have the chance to join net the same thing? Hypothetically, what if there was 3 factions who are all race mixed but wanna rule Tamriel for different reasons? Why cant I as a Bosmer pick one of those three instead of being forced into one? Also this is terrible for a lot of guilds mine included, none of us can agree on which faction to roll.
2. If I remember correctly in one of the videos a dev said once you get to 50 the game really opens up. This implies that leveling isnt really all that important. Why cant leveling be jsut all relevent as cap? This is why I now support level less games.
3. What if RVR sucks? This is a PVP focused game after all and what if the RvR is abysmal?
4. Classes, now I know they are loose classes by why have them to begin with? Why cant you be like Skyrim allowing you to level up skills and mixing them together?
5. Announcement seemed more like Damage Control for the incoming Shit storm. If I remember correctly they said Player housing wasnt possible and neither was true action combat. Even though weve seen both work and work well.
6. Obvious wow clone worries. The western dev market has been pretty bleak the recent years. With either devs releasing to early or releasing blatant wow clones.
What do you guys think? What are your concerns? Now please be constructive with any feedback you have. I dont want this turning into a fanboy vs hater thread.
At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
Originally posted by Fishmitts I'm a little iffy on the fact that a level 10 will "statjump" in PvP (I think I just made that up) so that they are able to participate with the big boys. How is that going to work? Do the higher levels get a debuff when fighting a lower class enemy? Or like I said, a statjump.
They have said they will boost your stats up to level 50, but you wont have access to the abilities of a level 50 and (not sure if this next part is 100% true but i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere) any bonus stats from gear.
Personally I'm fine with this, when it comes to large scale pvp it tends to become more about numbers and/or a good strat than a individuels stat count. Its only really in instanced pvp, where all sides are equal, that an individuel's stats come into play in any real way.
Originally posted by Fishmitts I'm a little iffy on the fact that a level 10 will "statjump" in PvP (I think I just made that up) so that they are able to participate with the big boys. How is that going to work? Do the higher levels get a debuff when fighting a lower class enemy? Or like I said, a statjump.
They have said they will boost your stats up to level 50, but you wont have access to the abilities of a level 50 and (not sure if this next part is 100% true but i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere) any bonus stats from gear.
Personally I'm fine with this, when it comes to large scale pvp it tends to become more about numbers and/or a good strat than a individuels stat count. Its only really in instanced pvp, where all sides are equal, that an individuel's stats come into play in any real way.
I suppose I can live with that, thanks for taking the time to respond.:)
At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...
Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...
This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.
Good list. My only concern with the information currently available is everything that deives from raction locking races. I really has a huge impact of the entire game and while it might be positive for PvP it really is bad for PvE and having that TES feel. Some really good idea's in other threads about it too that I sometimes wonder just how long they actually thought abut it. I mean if they spent a long time coming up with the idea did no one at any point query if locking races into factions was a bad idea? and if so did no one come up with something simple like suggested where you have 3 houses fighting and they recruit guilds to join them and guilds can comprise any mixture of races.
I can't even begin to imagine the headache it will cause guilds. I will probably only roll a Breton, a Nord or a an Orc so if I was in a guild I already have my options cut down and if the guild chose the AD I would be screwed. I still shake my head when thinking about this design as it just makes no sense in a holistic design aproach and really only seems to be for the PvP.
At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...
Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...
This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.
My god...
Relax man it's just a game. And yeah, in Morrowind you couldn't go to Skyrim. Guess what? Morrowind isn't an MMO. It was a small part of a bigger world. In MMOs, you generally have a larger world and this game is no exception. Oh, I didn't know being at war meant I couldn't tread on the enemies lands. So there is just a bunch of giant walls around the gameworld with ever alert guards that will spot you regardless of your sneak or illusion skill? Yeah, that sounds like Elder Scrolls, limitless walls abound. Let's not take into account that WoW lets you pretty much go anywhere at your own risk and that has factional warfare. I get the lore is making it so your faction is fighting over a contested, desired land. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still want to explore enemy lands without making a new character. Some of us believe the more open the gameworld the better and not having arbitrary barriers imposed. If all it takes to get into enemy land is to sneak in, then cool. But that is probably not the case. Sounds like they are going the "Just can't go there" route.
This is all a moot point, though. My whole point was that having designated factions that each race is FORCED into is not Elder Scrolls. You may recall that as a Norn I could side with the Empire or the Stormcloaks and was not bound by race to fight for one or the other. That whole choice being removed is generally against the Elder Scrolls formula of being open as far as those types of choices.
This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...
Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...
This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.
My god...
So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?
The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".
You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?
And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?
So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?
1. In past TES games the factions were NOT at war - all out OPEN war.
2. Yes. There are no trades between 2 countries at war - actually trading is the second thing to break - the first are embassies. Are you new to history?
The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".
Did you read the part where the Orcs join the Bretons because they promised their land back? Familiar with the "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept?
You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?
No. Not if they want their lands back and the alternative is being homeless and left alone fighting against 2 major factions PLUS the faction that offered you help - might as well sign the suicide note.
And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?
1. Well there were LOTS of jews in the nazi front lines, including 100+ officers and highly ranked members of the 3 branches of the nazi war machine not to include the ones that worked for the regime as snitches and spies to get their own people into cozy chambers - still your comment didnt make sense. Even if I want to go down that road, I could answer "no... some of them thought it would be a great idea to fight the german war machine so they picked the road to auschwitz" - some had a choice, some didnt... I dont understand this Jew/ Nazi Germany example... please explain a little better what you're trying to say regarding that issue so I can give a proper answer - I dont quite understand the question / example
2. No. Not every american thought going to vietnam was a good idea, thats why they stayed in their homeland and DIDNT go to vietnam.
So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?
1. In past TES games the factions were NOT at war - all out OPEN war.
Skyrim is pretty much 2 factions at war in the entire map. Even as a Nord you didn't have to join the fight.
2. Yes. There are no trades between 2 countries at war - actually trading is the second thing to break - the first are embassies. Are you new to history?
I give you that with the way the game is designed trade between certain regions would be restricted. But remember, as the game is designed the factions have agreed that Cryodil is where the fight will take place. So why would trade outside the warzone be affected completely?
The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".
Did you read the part where the Orcs join the Bretons because they promised their land back? Familiar with the "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept?
And I asked did you think it was believeable that ALL Orcs would join the fight alongside the Bretons? I personally was thinking of making an Orc who hated the alliance and treted any Orc that joined the Alliance as a traitor. An Orc doesn't bargain for land he takes it! But with faction lock I cannot even use that character concept. The design wants us to believe that absolutely no Orc in the entire kingdom has turned around and refused to take the cowards act and join with the Bretons. THAT is unbelieveable.
You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?
No. Not if they want their lands back and the alternative is being homeless and left alone fighting against 2 major factions PLUS the faction that offered you help - might as well sign the suicide note.
Or....join one of the other factions and fight against the Bretons, win the war, get your land back the honorable way through arms and conflict. The way Orcs, and their GOD, do it and want it to be done.
And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?
1. Well there were LOTS of jews in the nazi front lines, including 100+ officers and highly ranked members of the 3 branches of the nazi war machine not to include the ones that worked for the regime as snitches and spies to get their own people into cozy chambers - still your comment didnt make sense. Even if I want to go down that road, I could answer "no... some of them thought it would be a great idea to fight the german war machine so they picked the road to auschwitz" - some had a choice, some didnt... I dont understand this Jew/ Nazi Germany example... please explain a little better what you're trying to say regarding that issue so I can give a proper answer - I dont quite understand the question / example
OK simple really. TESO tells us 100% of all Bretons for example fight for their country. 100% of Orcs and 100% of Redguards too. No one defected, stood down, refuses to fight, flees or turns spy. In the context of the 2nd world war was it the case that 100% of German Jews fought alongside the Germans or did some fight, some flee and some die to the Germans. If you are struggling it is the later. The game though is stating that the former is more believeable.
2. No. Not every american thought going to vietnam was a good idea, thats why they stayed in their homeland and DIDNT go to vietnam.
Exaclty. Even though they were American and America said "we are at war with Vietnam, not EVERYONE fought or got involved. Some fled the country, some didn't get drafted....each person had the free will and the option, even thought it might be harmful to them, to choose to fight or not. The game states that even though you might not want to fight, not agree with the fight, might want to flee your homeland because of the fight or any other reason...sorry not possible.
I'm not quoting because I dont want to turn this into a rainbow hehe
Ok, just one note - They dont say "everyone has to fight"... but "everyone has to contribute to the war effort"... you may not be a warrior, but you can be a crafter and dont fight at all.
If you want me to drag this into real history, then look at the women in ww2 in america. They werent drafted to the fields of germany, but they did get "encouraged" and were more than willing to go to factories that use to make tuna cans and toys and started to make ammo and tires, and guns ... all this to "do their part" for their country - actually if you check it you'll see that the american war machine in ww2 was almost absolutly powered by civilian women "doing their part".
So ok... they didnt "fight" but you dont need to fight to support your country in a crisis.
Now about that "defection" part... I actually think its a good idea, IN THEORY, but in practice it would be a nightmare to apply to a game - just take a few minutes to think about the mechanics required to put that into an understandable mmo without completely turning it into a "who? what? where? why? is this guy what? Huh?" game.
Some concepts have to be simplified for the sake of gaming - its like trying give super mario mushrooms a justification using real biology and try to apply the concept to the game... it would completely f-up the game - ok small mario, eats mushrooms, gets bigger, thats it. Really. Its a "K.I.S.S" concept and works just fine.
Originally posted by DSWBeef 1. Faction Lock. Now I know the PVPers will come in here and say its necessary for pvp but I ask you wouldnt 3 OPEN factions which you have the chance to join net the same thing? Hypothetically, what if there was 3 factions who are all race mixed but wanna rule Tamriel for different reasons? Why cant I as a Bosmer pick one of those three instead of being forced into one? Also this is terrible for a lot of guilds mine included, none of us can agree on which faction to roll. The top guy is straight from DAoC. They have 3 race locked realms, too. They chose MMO over TES.
Originally posted by DSWBeef 2. If I remember correctly in one of the videos a dev said once you get to 50 the game really opens up. This implies that leveling isnt really all that important. Why cant leveling be jsut all relevent as cap? This is why I now support level less games. That is not what the average MMO player wants in a game. They want max level now. And the subsequent grind. They chose MMO over TES.
Originally posted by DSWBeef 3. What if RVR sucks? This is a PVP focused game after all and what if the RvR is abysmal? They went with the PvP centric game. If it sucks, it sucks. They don't have much to fall back on, do they? They chose MMO over TES.
Originally posted by DSWBeef 4. Classes, now I know they are loose classes by why have them to begin with? Why cant you be like Skyrim allowing you to level up skills and mixing them together?
Again, the mass of MMO players want classes.
Originally posted by DSWBeef 5. Announcement seemed more like Damage Control for the incoming Shit storm. If I remember correctly they said Player housing wasnt possible and neither was true action combat. Even though weve seen both work and work well.
It was massive damage control over the backlash of their choice of MMO over TES. Those two features are very much possible in MMOs of today.
Originally posted by DSWBeef 6. Obvious wow clone worries. The western dev market has been pretty bleak the recent years. With either devs releasing to early or releasing blatant wow clones.
Again, the players today want WoW type gameplay: Quest hub to max level in minimal time so you grind raids and PvP and daily quests and gear. They chose MMO over TES.
That's my take on your points. They are my concerns, too.
[EDIT] I forgot to add that I was never interested in DAoC. I am sad to see TES turned into DAoC3.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Mercscythe At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.My god...
You totally missed the point. In Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim there was NO AREA I could not get to if the area was made for the game. NOTHING was locked out because of my race. Kind of tough to go to Skyrim when playing Morrowind when that area did not even exist in the game. Of course, there was Solstheim.
In real life? There is NOWHERE I cannot go during wartime. There are no "magical barriers" that keep me from going anywhere I please. Could I die? You bet! And quite quickly depending on the area I go to. BUT... I can still go there. How do people fight a war when they cannot access each others territories? Oh yea, they meet on neutral ground. ROTFLMAO
I CAN go to Korea. I CAN do what I wish there. Will there be consequences? You bet! But I can go there if *I* decide to.
The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)
As for me... I'm one of the first DAoC players and as you might imagine, each word they say about TESO is making the game better and better for me - specially the faction lock. "no you wont go to enemy territory like in WoW to check out the view - want to go there? Roll a char there - no more of this "I want to be everything, go everywhere and do anything - nop, theres games with something called CHOICES which players completely eliminated from games for the past 10-15 years. Yea well... choices are a bitch, but you have to live with them... thats how it should be - thats why yesterday's games made you think and today's games and mind numbing bore fests
Btw you know also why theres a faction lock? Because thats tied with the "megaserver idea". There will be no "pvp server - pve server - rp server" there will be one server and with faction lock pve'rs can pve without being worried about pvp, and still play with their pvp'er friends - because behind the walls is safe, both can choose to do whatever they like without being restricted or forced into a server they dont feel confortable with just because their friends are there. (I have a friend that just doesnt do any pvp, yet so we can play together he came to a pvp server - in TESO he (or me) wont have that issue - And this is true choice - not game choice, but real life choice. Join one and only server and do whatever you like... not those little issues "oh noe I cant go to skyrim as a breton - yea too bad, you rolled a breton, if you want skyrim, roll a nord - CHOICES see? And consequences also! Finally some consequences to real choices on a game.
Btw in TES I'm also always a vampire and there will be vampires in TESO and you know for me whats best? Is that because of my choice I'm forced to do things a bit different - I loved Oblivion, you couldnt do anything normal as a vampire during the day without getting burned everywhere, but because of people like you, vampires in skyrim are ridiculous... just walking in broad day light contradicting EXACTLY what you can read in a book called "Immortal Blood" in Oblivion, why? Because of people like you that want EVERYTHING with no consequences what so ever! "I want to be a vampire but I dont want to die in a fast travel - DONT FAST TRAVEL you may end up dead if you end up at noon in the opposite side of the map"... but nooo... you had to be a vampire that could walk during the day... so bethesda complied. No. You made a choice of being a night creature - live forever as a night creature - as if those addons or potions or whatever the crap that was that "cure the vampirism" werent bad enough.
People like you that want everything, everywhere, everytime just ruin the fun in making bad choices in games and having to live with them (or making a choice knowing there will be bad consequences and you take that path perfectly aware of them)
Go play X-COM: Enemy Unknown on Classic / Ironman then mail firaxis whining about how you get one shotted because you put your colonel in a bad position and "oops".
Oh and no... you can't go to North Korea. You won't even get past the DMZ. I'm sorry.
One of my concerns is, that this mega server stuff, will make it harder to form (Server) communitys, although i must admit that i do not know exactly how the MS will work and may be wrong.
Community building is very important for any MMO imo, and especially vital in a pvp-rvr enviroment. Fighting an enmy you have come to know, with people you know and rely on is much more engaging then just fighting with random guys, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Mercscythe At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...
Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...
This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.
My god...
You totally missed the point. In Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim there was NO AREA I could not get to if the area was made for the game. NOTHING was locked out because of my race. Kind of tough to go to Skyrim when playing Morrowind when that area did not even exist in the game. Of course, there was Solstheim.
In real life? There is NOWHERE I cannot go during wartime. There are no "magical barriers" that keep me from going anywhere I please. Could I die? You bet! And quite quickly depending on the area I go to. BUT... I can still go there. How do people fight a war when they cannot access each others territories? Oh yea, they meet on neutral ground. ROTFLMAO
I CAN go to Korea. I CAN do what I wish there. Will there be consequences? You bet! But I can go there if *I* decide to.
The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.
This x1000. At no point during Skyrim, regardless of faction choice, was I ever locked out of Windhelm or Solitude. TESO is creating this huge world that for some reason or another is faction locked. Once again, factions in the Elder Scrolls have always been a choice. I could make a Dunmer and have him side with whoever I wanted or no one at all. This was an actual option in a game like SWG where you could be Imperial, Rebel, or neutral. This crap where now I am tied to some alliance simply because of my race is entirely contrary to what most Elder Scrolls fans are familiar with.
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)
That is the crux of it all, isn't it? TES:O decided to appeal to DAoC players, NOT The Elder Scroll fans
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
As for me... I'm one of the first DAoC players and as you might imagine, each word they say about TESO is making the game better and better for me - specially the faction lock. "no you wont go to enemy territory like in WoW to check out the view - want to go there? Roll a char there - no more of this "I want to be everything, go everywhere and do anything - nop, theres games with something called CHOICES which players completely eliminated from games for the past 10-15 years. Yea well... choices are a bitch, but you have to live with them... thats how it should be - thats why yesterday's games made you think and today's games and mind numbing bore fests
There's a huge difference between meaningful choices that lead one to different outcomes, each one having a profound effect on your character over "which race do I play in order to play in what area". The latter isn't any more difficult of a choice as "which game do I play" or "what server do I run on".
Making a choice on what skills to invest in, how one is going to make one's money, whether or not you take a chance to enchant an item, those are meaningful choices.
Having the world carved up and a player having to forgo his race of choice just so he can play with friends is a lame choice.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
1. Basic gameplay doesn't feel fluid and responsive and has awkward/glitchy animations.
2. RvR that sucks rather than being like DAoC (or close enough - or something better)
3. PvE content too easy so you watch TV while playing rather than being immersed in the game.
4. Too many immersion-breaking things such as inexplicable teleportation and rampant use of phasing.
5. Combat not being deep enough to have longevity with the more "action-based" approach.
6. Each faction having the same classes rather than unique ones like in DAoC.
7. Super flashy anime-style combat animations with showers of light and colours for non-magic abilities.
8. Load screens when moving around inside each province.
9. Load screens entering buildings.
10. On-the-spot respeccing where your warrior character, with previously no magic experience, out of nowhere begins to cast healing spells on the rest of the party. Diablo 3 style lack-of-character-development style character setups, essentially.
Comments
Because that answer already was given "crafting has meaning - crafted gear will not lose to its "drops" counterparts"
So... no, you dont need to pve to pvp.
Also if the daoc philosophy is maintained, in daoc you didnt need to pve to pvp. Actually the best of the best gear that you could ever possibly get to pvp was/ HAD to be crafted. I remember spending 100 plats on a chain vest. Gemmed... enchanted... and still YOU DIED!!!
(but you killed a lot to be fair lol)
Don't blame daoc for their stupid decision to make this megaserver and lock everyone into one ruleset.
At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
They have said they will boost your stats up to level 50, but you wont have access to the abilities of a level 50 and (not sure if this next part is 100% true but i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere) any bonus stats from gear.
Personally I'm fine with this, when it comes to large scale pvp it tends to become more about numbers and/or a good strat than a individuels stat count. Its only really in instanced pvp, where all sides are equal, that an individuel's stats come into play in any real way.
I suppose I can live with that, thanks for taking the time to respond.:)
This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...
Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...
This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.
My god...
Good list. My only concern with the information currently available is everything that deives from raction locking races. I really has a huge impact of the entire game and while it might be positive for PvP it really is bad for PvE and having that TES feel. Some really good idea's in other threads about it too that I sometimes wonder just how long they actually thought abut it. I mean if they spent a long time coming up with the idea did no one at any point query if locking races into factions was a bad idea? and if so did no one come up with something simple like suggested where you have 3 houses fighting and they recruit guilds to join them and guilds can comprise any mixture of races.
I can't even begin to imagine the headache it will cause guilds. I will probably only roll a Breton, a Nord or a an Orc so if I was in a guild I already have my options cut down and if the guild chose the AD I would be screwed. I still shake my head when thinking about this design as it just makes no sense in a holistic design aproach and really only seems to be for the PvP.
Relax man it's just a game. And yeah, in Morrowind you couldn't go to Skyrim. Guess what? Morrowind isn't an MMO. It was a small part of a bigger world. In MMOs, you generally have a larger world and this game is no exception. Oh, I didn't know being at war meant I couldn't tread on the enemies lands. So there is just a bunch of giant walls around the gameworld with ever alert guards that will spot you regardless of your sneak or illusion skill? Yeah, that sounds like Elder Scrolls, limitless walls abound. Let's not take into account that WoW lets you pretty much go anywhere at your own risk and that has factional warfare. I get the lore is making it so your faction is fighting over a contested, desired land. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still want to explore enemy lands without making a new character. Some of us believe the more open the gameworld the better and not having arbitrary barriers imposed. If all it takes to get into enemy land is to sneak in, then cool. But that is probably not the case. Sounds like they are going the "Just can't go there" route.
This is all a moot point, though. My whole point was that having designated factions that each race is FORCED into is not Elder Scrolls. You may recall that as a Norn I could side with the Empire or the Stormcloaks and was not bound by race to fight for one or the other. That whole choice being removed is generally against the Elder Scrolls formula of being open as far as those types of choices.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?
The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".
You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?
And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?
My God!
I'm not quoting because I dont want to turn this into a rainbow hehe
Ok, just one note - They dont say "everyone has to fight"... but "everyone has to contribute to the war effort"... you may not be a warrior, but you can be a crafter and dont fight at all.
If you want me to drag this into real history, then look at the women in ww2 in america. They werent drafted to the fields of germany, but they did get "encouraged" and were more than willing to go to factories that use to make tuna cans and toys and started to make ammo and tires, and guns ... all this to "do their part" for their country - actually if you check it you'll see that the american war machine in ww2 was almost absolutly powered by civilian women "doing their part".
So ok... they didnt "fight" but you dont need to fight to support your country in a crisis.
Now about that "defection" part... I actually think its a good idea, IN THEORY, but in practice it would be a nightmare to apply to a game - just take a few minutes to think about the mechanics required to put that into an understandable mmo without completely turning it into a "who? what? where? why? is this guy what? Huh?" game.
Some concepts have to be simplified for the sake of gaming - its like trying give super mario mushrooms a justification using real biology and try to apply the concept to the game... it would completely f-up the game - ok small mario, eats mushrooms, gets bigger, thats it. Really. Its a "K.I.S.S" concept and works just fine.
Greatest concern would the PvP being limited to only one area that is considered 'OPEN' , which is Cyrodii itself.
I certainly hope there are more PvP areas that arent instanced and Please no Battleground crap!
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)
That's my take on your points. They are my concerns, too.
[EDIT]
I forgot to add that I was never interested in DAoC. I am sad to see TES turned into DAoC3.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
In real life? There is NOWHERE I cannot go during wartime. There are no "magical barriers" that keep me from going anywhere I please. Could I die? You bet! And quite quickly depending on the area I go to. BUT... I can still go there. How do people fight a war when they cannot access each others territories? Oh yea, they meet on neutral ground. ROTFLMAO
I CAN go to Korea. I CAN do what I wish there. Will there be consequences? You bet! But I can go there if *I* decide to.
The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You confuse me.
First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)
As for me... I'm one of the first DAoC players and as you might imagine, each word they say about TESO is making the game better and better for me - specially the faction lock. "no you wont go to enemy territory like in WoW to check out the view - want to go there? Roll a char there - no more of this "I want to be everything, go everywhere and do anything - nop, theres games with something called CHOICES which players completely eliminated from games for the past 10-15 years. Yea well... choices are a bitch, but you have to live with them... thats how it should be - thats why yesterday's games made you think and today's games and mind numbing bore fests
Btw you know also why theres a faction lock? Because thats tied with the "megaserver idea". There will be no "pvp server - pve server - rp server" there will be one server and with faction lock pve'rs can pve without being worried about pvp, and still play with their pvp'er friends - because behind the walls is safe, both can choose to do whatever they like without being restricted or forced into a server they dont feel confortable with just because their friends are there. (I have a friend that just doesnt do any pvp, yet so we can play together he came to a pvp server - in TESO he (or me) wont have that issue - And this is true choice - not game choice, but real life choice. Join one and only server and do whatever you like... not those little issues "oh noe I cant go to skyrim as a breton - yea too bad, you rolled a breton, if you want skyrim, roll a nord - CHOICES see? And consequences also! Finally some consequences to real choices on a game.
Btw in TES I'm also always a vampire and there will be vampires in TESO and you know for me whats best? Is that because of my choice I'm forced to do things a bit different - I loved Oblivion, you couldnt do anything normal as a vampire during the day without getting burned everywhere, but because of people like you, vampires in skyrim are ridiculous... just walking in broad day light contradicting EXACTLY what you can read in a book called "Immortal Blood" in Oblivion, why? Because of people like you that want EVERYTHING with no consequences what so ever! "I want to be a vampire but I dont want to die in a fast travel - DONT FAST TRAVEL you may end up dead if you end up at noon in the opposite side of the map"... but nooo... you had to be a vampire that could walk during the day... so bethesda complied. No. You made a choice of being a night creature - live forever as a night creature - as if those addons or potions or whatever the crap that was that "cure the vampirism" werent bad enough.
People like you that want everything, everywhere, everytime just ruin the fun in making bad choices in games and having to live with them (or making a choice knowing there will be bad consequences and you take that path perfectly aware of them)
Go play X-COM: Enemy Unknown on Classic / Ironman then mail firaxis whining about how you get one shotted because you put your colonel in a bad position and "oops".
Oh and no... you can't go to North Korea. You won't even get past the DMZ. I'm sorry.
My One concern is How well their Mega Server will be able to actually handle the amount of people that will Flood the game on its release.
Its very important to not have Lag/Server problems on the actual release date and the week following.
One of my concerns is, that this mega server stuff, will make it harder to form (Server) communitys, although i must admit that i do not know exactly how the MS will work and may be wrong.
Community building is very important for any MMO imo, and especially vital in a pvp-rvr enviroment. Fighting an enmy you have come to know, with people you know and rely on is much more engaging then just fighting with random guys, in my opinion.
This x1000. At no point during Skyrim, regardless of faction choice, was I ever locked out of Windhelm or Solitude. TESO is creating this huge world that for some reason or another is faction locked. Once again, factions in the Elder Scrolls have always been a choice. I could make a Dunmer and have him side with whoever I wanted or no one at all. This was an actual option in a game like SWG where you could be Imperial, Rebel, or neutral. This crap where now I am tied to some alliance simply because of my race is entirely contrary to what most Elder Scrolls fans are familiar with.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
There's a huge difference between meaningful choices that lead one to different outcomes, each one having a profound effect on your character over "which race do I play in order to play in what area". The latter isn't any more difficult of a choice as "which game do I play" or "what server do I run on".
Making a choice on what skills to invest in, how one is going to make one's money, whether or not you take a chance to enchant an item, those are meaningful choices.
Having the world carved up and a player having to forgo his race of choice just so he can play with friends is a lame choice.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
1. Basic gameplay doesn't feel fluid and responsive and has awkward/glitchy animations.
2. RvR that sucks rather than being like DAoC (or close enough - or something better)
3. PvE content too easy so you watch TV while playing rather than being immersed in the game.
4. Too many immersion-breaking things such as inexplicable teleportation and rampant use of phasing.
5. Combat not being deep enough to have longevity with the more "action-based" approach.
6. Each faction having the same classes rather than unique ones like in DAoC.
7. Super flashy anime-style combat animations with showers of light and colours for non-magic abilities.
8. Load screens when moving around inside each province.
9. Load screens entering buildings.
10. On-the-spot respeccing where your warrior character, with previously no magic experience, out of nowhere begins to cast healing spells on the rest of the party. Diablo 3 style lack-of-character-development style character setups, essentially.