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Originally posted by Paladrink Stop beating a dead horse...
The majority of people who play F2P games without paying are people who don't have the money to pay for a game in the first place. This usually consists of minors, college students, and otherwise low-income gamers. As a result of the lower income per player, the F2P game market is forced to make games for as little cost on their part as possible. This has evolved into a money-grab in most games, because they think paying money equates to allowing a player to win.
The quality of subscription games is higher and the quality of the community is usually better. A few F2P hybrid games have done well and cater to both types of gamers without compromising on quality. Hybrid might not be the best payment model for every game, but it has the only future I can see in which both payment models co-exist.
Originally posted by syntax42 The majority of people who play F2P games without paying are people who don't have the money to pay for a game in the first place. This usually consists of minors, college students, and otherwise low-income gamers.
And then, much like the comments being labeled by politicians, reality slaps them in the face.
OP, its clear that MMOs are not meeting player demands by how many MMO companies are abandoning the subscription model on all current and future MMOs they are making, not to mention the large jumps in revenue being gained from those new models.
Let the subbers cling to their dead horse and pretend you are doing it...fear always prevents people from excepting change, just leave them be.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Well it's interesting, a lot of MMOs are going either F2P or B2P as of late.
I prefer TSW/GW2 payment model, I don't know if TSW lets you earn in game money to them put it into the cash shop some how, but yea so pretty much I prefer B2P.
Maybe 15 dollars a month is in question as well I personally think 5 dollars a month(Even though that's not even needed) would be a whole better IMO.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Yes I would gladly pay 15 a month to know that whatever content that is delivered in the future no matter how little will be available to me with no strings attached. its also knowing that the game im playing isnt being developed with the intention of driving me to the cash shop for things I want.
edit: And I voted yes because I understand the reason why Vegas is such a popular destination. Math isnt hard and the house always wins if your trying to have fun.
Thread question was "Are subcription games meeting player demands?" Then a poll on what is better. confused. Majority of player demands are for vanilla content they can breeze through mindlessly, preferablly solo where their charachter can tank, DPS, and heal.
Yes, sub games are delivering what players demand, WoW gives them easy content, instanced mini games and the carrot on a stick, and many have followed that path. Now the 5-10% of players want more out of there game...but wheres the pofit in catering to the minority? Instead, games will continue to add PvP as the sole challenge for players and when it gets boring, they move on to the next game so they can dial n ion mechanics, blow through content and puff out their chest at their PvP stats/gear/rating...then move on again.
If a difficult progression game, not gear driven, where PvP was a sense of community and not some instance or zerg crazy zone set aside where their really is no purpose besides capture and release, I doubt the ADD nature of most gamers would play...most want instant gratification of seeing levels/skills fly up so they can sit around and complaion about the lack of endgame.
So once again, yes, wether it is F2P, B2P, or sub...most games roll out to appease the vanilla, pointless PvP, and overall lack of interest in a challenge that most MMO players crave...the pay maoel has little to do with it.
I don't understand the relationship between the title, post and poll. So let me take a stab at some answers.
I think suscription games are not meeting demand (there aren't many left).
I think the entire MMORPG genre is not meeting demand. (too many sub-genres being ignored)
I prefer subscription if the game is worth putting time into (I haven't found one in the last 2 years).
I prefer F2P if the game is just something I play when I'm bored or a temporary diversion from work.
I strongly prefer F2P if the game isn't to my liking because I can uninstall without remorse.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by madazz Originally posted by Paladrink Stop beating a dead horse...
"A poll won't be scientific but why not, I'll compare answered results to delivered product and see if the demand exceeds what is being offered."
It's fun playing with numbers, greenreen, but you can only draw anything meaningful from them if you understand them. Do you really not know that the crowd here is predominantly anti-F2P?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I prefer subscription MMOs. $15 a month is the cheaperst entertainment available. Unfortunately it seems that fans of subscription MMos are a dying lot, swallowed by a horde of "I want everything for free" players. Also, because market is oversaturated with MMOs, it is hard for any MMO (except WoW of course) to retain steady subscription level for extended amount of time. There are just too many of them and we bore easily and demand change.
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Paying two subscriptions as we speak! And enjoying them! SWTOR and AC2 (AC1 sub to play) Played SWTOR till April then quit, went back in the beginning of december. Will probably stay till the "update" that I will have to give more money for! If I feel that what I purchase should have been added without additional money then that will determine if I stay subbed!
Enjoyed AC2 back in the day, and have enjoyed running around again! How long will I? Who knows, it's only money and I'm enjoying myself so I will keep paying!
I will add that there are two free games that I also play that have cash shops. One is LoL and it's purely a buy champion or skin shop so I have no problem supporting a system like that. And I've had my hand in some Firefall as of here in the last week and am enjoying that as well! Have not purchased anything yet, but I'm caving in the direction of buying a founders pack. We will see!
We all love video games and no one is right or wrong if they want to support a game that they enjoy playing! To much negativity these days. Enjoy your game of choice, eat pizza and long live scantily clad woman...with tattoos!
Originally posted by maplestone All personal opinions aside, there's no better poll than where people are choosing to spend their money.
So that would be subscription then?
Because, as is known, over 50% of the market is still sub based in terms of overall numbers, and over 80% in terms of *paying* numbers (ie those that pay in to the hobby and don't turn up to just freeload).
So no, subs are not meeting 'player demand' IMO. The whole 'F2P' thing is a unholy mix of industry buzz thinking and vocal freeloading forum posters. I am not saying ofc that a game cannot do ok off cash shop only in the Western market, but it certainly dosne't appear to be the gold rush bonanza that the industry thought it was a year ago.
Good point. And data shows that F2P has grabbed revenue share from P2P games from like 39% to 50% in last 2-3 years. There is your answer.
Subsciption games aren't meeting demands over a long period of time, maybe a few months but not years. Those games that charge a subscription also haven't had realistic projections of their sub base. So most have moved to F2P.
If I'm a subscriber to a game I like I'd rather it remain that way. Gambling or buying power in the cash shop bothers me. But for a game I'm not interested enough to spend anything on, F2P is a welcoming option even though I may not play for long.
Originally posted by Theocritus Look at a game like WoW...Lets say you started on day 1 in Nov 2004....That means you've played over 8 years....So thats 8x12x15=1440 dollars...Lets say you bought all expansion packs when they were released at 40 bucks apiece...Thats another 160 dollars or so.....So that player has paid 1600 dollars or so (unless they did a year plan or something)......This is why p2p sucks......Everyone looks at it like "Its only 15 dollars" but if you're heavily involved in that MMO its going to end up being a heck of alot more than 15 dollars.....In the meantime you could have played f2ps without paying anything...So lets seee: 1600 dollars or a few dollars to nothing...That isnt a tough decision imo.
Now take that amount and divide by the number of hours of entertainment...a good TV pakage cost near $80+ a month and I watch TV maybe 6-8hrs a week, so MMO subs seem like a huge bargain to me.
Well I guess there are two way you can look at this:
1. As f2p are increasing and p2p are decreasing it is fair to say that there is less demand for subscription based games. In that vein any subscription plan than is meeting demand.
2. People are leaving p2p games because they do not feel they are quality enough to bother paying for, so the quality of the game is not meeting demand.
Your poll has nothing to do with the question you asked.
For those who voted yes and aren't playing rift or Asheron's Call you are delusional. Gotta love getting 2-3 patches per year for a normal MMObut spending money every month.
Theres a reason why most sub based games collapse, and its not because they are bad, its because the subscription is a barrier to growing a playerbase. Those are facts that history has shown.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!