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Guild Wars 2 Events are Not Based on Warhammer/RIFT Events

RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

The similarities: the way contribution is calculated and the fact that they are "events".  RIFT is a descendent of WAR, but GW2 is from a different family altogether.

RIFT and Warhammer's events are built in "Stages" while GW2's is based on "Chains".  While all dynamic events in all MMO's share the definition, GW2's did not evolve from WAR/RIFT's.  It's more of a parellel evolution, per se and not a direct descendent.

1. In Warhammer they are permanently located on the map on a small parcel of space.  They run in a cycle that is clearly visible in the UI with a countdown timer that clearly shows what stage a player is on.  At the end of the event, contribution is weighed and a random lottery decides who gets loot and who doesnt'.  These events do not scale based on a player level, so higher level players can make quick work of them, regardless of how epic they were to lower levels.

2. In RIFT (made my several ex Warhammer Devs) they took this sytem 'up a notch' by making the events more interactive.  They can be spawned by players and don't show up on the map until spawned (or ready to spawn).  RIFTS have multple stages that are clearly shown on the UI that help a plaeyer know of it's progress.  Once a RIFT is complete, it disappears and everybody is rewarded based on contribution.  Another wrinkle that RIFT brings is "zone events" (which I haven't seen any other game do as smoothly) where an invasion force roams the countryside.  They are mobile and can be dangerous.  Again, events in lower level zones can be handled quite easily by higher level players.

3. In GW2 events are "chains" that are spawned by any number of ways and can travel great distances across the map.  The only UI indication a player has is the progress in that particular part of the chain.  If one part of the chain fails, the story usually takes a different turn which will can involve any number of different other events that are available.  With the exception of a zone wide dynamic event, there is no indication of an event until a player stumbles upon it.  They can be spawned by killing a certain mob, picking up an item, talking to an NPC, opening a cage door, or just overhearing a conversation.  Some chains are very short, while others are extremely long and involved.  In my experince most people run away to do other things after completing a link in the chain, not realizing they missed the best part coming up.  XP, Karma and coin are given based on contribution and occasional a "chest" will spawn on particularly large zone events.  Players level will scale to the level of the event, so while higher level players are more powerful, they are never trivialized.

To summarize: WAR and RIFT events (not invasions - those are unique!) are small events that occur in visible stages while GW2 events are CHAINS that will often branch in multple directions.  They are all "dynamic events" by definition, but to say that GW2 is a evolution of the WAR/RIFT model would be incorrect since they are so different.  So, to say that GW2 somehow evolved from WAR or RIFT is incorrect.  GW2 evolved parellell to them, and is not a descendent of them.

If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
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Comments

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    .....yeah no previous mmo's ever influenced GW2's design....if WAR had not come out; GW2 would be exactly as it is today....irrefutably. EQ, WoW, GW1, DAOC - no impact whatsoever. This is a completely unique product which would have existed as the first mmo exactly as is if nothing ever came before it. 

    - Why is it not OK with you to have WAR be the impetus for the idea of dynamic events?, the GW2 devs thought about how they could take that idea and make it better, y'know, be 'influenced' by it.

    If anyone says it is a clone, that would be arguable; but you are on the other side of the spectrum.

    The good lord will give you permission to still like GW2 if you admit it was influenced by a particular mechanic in what you consider a 'bad' game.

    Its not a sign of weakness, it is exactly how ideas have been born from the dawn of time.

     

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    The is true, there was much more variety in wars pqs. And you could actually fail them.
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    We know Rift and GW2 were being developed in parallel and that DEs aren't based on Rifts. However, it's one of the things the haters like to regurgitate, so don't expect to convert the fringe.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    .....yeah no previous mmo's ever influenced anothers design....if WAR had not come out; GW2 would be exactly as it is today....irrefutably.

    Or your delusional.

    The point is that some people try to argue that events evolution goes: WAR>RIFT> GW2 and this is not the case, which is the point of my post.  I think the way contribution is handled is very similar however, but the events themselves are a completely different animal.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    ok...  they're still incredible boring and repetitive. 
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    The is true, there was much more variety in wars pqs. And you could actually fail them.

    You can fail in GW2 also and then the next DE would be based offf that. Wars were not more in variety - they were basically all the same just different foes. Same with Rift.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    .....yeah no previous mmo's ever influenced GW2's design....if WAR had not come out; GW2 would be exactly as it is today....irrefutably. EQ, WoW, GW1, DAOC - no impact whatsoever. This is a completely unique product which would have existed as the first mmo exactly as is if nothing ever came before it. 

    - Why is it not OK with you to have WAR be the impetus for the idea of dynamic events?, the GW2 devs thought about how they could take that idea and make it better, y'know, be 'influenced' by it.

    If anyone says it is a clone, that would be arguable; but you are on the other side of the spectrum.

    The good lord will give you permission to still like GW2 if you admit it was influenced by a particular mechanic in what you consider a 'bad' game.

    Its not a sign of weakness, it is exactly how ideas have been born from the dawn of time.

     

    Ok, my response to your edit:  As someone who actually likes the WAR system, I can say that there are elements that I actually wish were in the GW2 system.  I liked the loot rolling at the end.  I also liked that I always knew which stage I was on when I jumped in (this helped me know if it was worth my time or not).  

    Plus, I never said that it wasn't influenced by WAR or RIFT or any other game.  I simply said that it's not BASED on what WAR did.  The dynamic events system was dreamed up as a way to replace questing in GW2.  It's a unque way of telling a zone's story that culminates in a ultimate zone event.  To say that GW2 couldn't learn something form WAR or RIFT is silly.  There isn't an MMO under the sun that didn't learn from another game.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    .....yeah no previous mmo's ever influenced anothers design....if WAR had not come out; GW2 would be exactly as it is today....irrefutably.

    Or your delusional.

    The point is that some people try to argue that events evolution goes: WAR>RIFT> GW2 and this is not the case, which is the point of my post.  I think the way contribution is handled is very similar however, but the events themselves are a completely different animal.

    For the record, I edited my post because I thought that was a bit harsh. I think however it was clearly pointed out that the dev schedules of Rift and GW2 were quite similar, and therefore it would be WAR branching into Rift and GW2. 

    There is absolutely no question in my mind that WAR conceived the idea of dynamic events and thus influenced the subsequent games Rift and GW2. 

    To not admit that the central concept is the same, in my opinion is short-sighted at best. Yes, GW2 has chains. But imo personal opinion. They are chains which are revealed in stages. And they branch. 

    All three are referred to as Dynamic Events. It is the definition of the mechanic. If you aren't suggesting that DE's in GW2 should be renamed into some 'higher form' of mechanic, than you have to admit, it is the same mechanic as the other 2 games.

    Why can't you still like GW2 and be OK with that?

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    .....yeah no previous mmo's ever influenced GW2's design....if WAR had not come out; GW2 would be exactly as it is today....irrefutably. EQ, WoW, GW1, DAOC - no impact whatsoever. This is a completely unique product which would have existed as the first mmo exactly as is if nothing ever came before it. 

    - Why is it not OK with you to have WAR be the impetus for the idea of dynamic events?, the GW2 devs thought about how they could take that idea and make it better, y'know, be 'influenced' by it.

    If anyone says it is a clone, that would be arguable; but you are on the other side of the spectrum.

    The good lord will give you permission to still like GW2 if you admit it was influenced by a particular mechanic in what you consider a 'bad' game.

    Its not a sign of weakness, it is exactly how ideas have been born from the dawn of time.

     

    Ok, my response to your edit:  As someone who actually likes the WAR system, I can say that there are elements that I actually wish were in the GW2 system.  I liked the loot rolling at the end.  I also liked that I always knew which stage I was on when I jumped in (this helped me know if it was worth my time or not).  

    Plus, I never said that it wasn't influenced by WAR or RIFT or any other game.  I simply said that it's not BASED on what WAR did.  The dynamic events system was dreamed up as a way to replace questing in GW2.  It's a unque way of telling a zone's story that culminates in a ultimate zone event.  To say that GW2 couldn't learn something form WAR or RIFT is silly.  There isn't an MMO under the sun that didn't learn from another game.

    I stand corrected, I misunderstood your intent.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon

    The idea of Dynamic Event was what caused GW:Utopia to be cancelled and instead GW2 to be developed.

    People actually datamined GW1 client during Nigthfall and found "centaurs assaulting the fort" and "centaurs capturing".

    If you want to know the story of GW2 DEs watch the following:

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

    It evens acknowledge the datamine story.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    The is true, there was much more variety in wars pqs. And you could actually fail them.

    This one still makes me chuckle. SO you can't fail a DE, yet many complain about the lack of people in the mid level zones and a reason for the complaints are that some can't complete the DE's without others there to assist. That's one hell of a dilemma they have.

     

    OP, I agree with you on some of your points, I just gave up caring since this topic has been argued to death and no amount of insight is going to clarify it to some people. Even if the dev's were to put out specifics on how they came to some of the core game designs and it had nothing to do with Warhammer or Rift what-so-ever, there will always be those who beg to differ. IMO the game is good and I couldn't care less where some of their design inspirations came from. I didn't like Warhammer and I certainly didn't like Rift , so if Anet was able to take someting away from those heaps of garbage and turn it around into something that I enjoy then wonderful. For the record, I see nothing wrong with drawing ideas from predecessors, it's when they carbon copy (Rift) that I take offense.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon

    You're arguing semantics.  The simple fact is whether they move across the map or not. They are the same exact repetitive staged content.  There is nothing dynamic about it.  The same amount of mobs spawn in the same amount of waves in the same amount of stages and run along the exact same paths EVERY time you do it.

    Now, had it been a case where it could truly have branched off into different possibilities,  i.e. stage 1 was kill this wave of centaurs, and depending on how quickly and easily you crushed them determined whether next stage was the centaur captain coming after you, OR, you then had to go take the fight to the centaur camp yourselves.  THAT would be dynamic.  [mod edit]

     

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Having played all 3 games, yes they are definitely a descendant of PQs, and yes, Rifts/zone events are desecendants of PQs. Argue semantics all you want, even though WAR sucked it had some cool new ideas, if poorly implemented. I wouldn't even call GW2 events "dynamic" but that's their wording, not mine. They may of improved on the concept, but it is not a new concept altogether.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by elitero
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by jdnyc

    [mod edit]

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

     

    I'd say it's too soon to tell if any other developer is that influenced by GW2.  The games been out since end of August and really it's feature list can only be observed in action since then by a prospective developer, warts and all.

    I agree with the rest of what you've said though.  I don't know why certain people feel threatened by the idea that developers take influences from other games, as if GW2 was immaculatelt concived and if anyone says it's mummy was a stripper they need to be burnt at the stake..  I suppose it beats the, 'ANET is Jesus', threads though.

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Actually I think that Rift events were times better than GW2 DE's. Maybe that's why I could play Rift for 5 months despite it's being a complete WoW clone and GW2 for 2 weeks plus once a month for 2 hours after that. 
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Piiritus
    Actually I think that Rift events were times better than GW2 DE's. Maybe that's why I could play Rift for 5 months despite it's being a complete WoW clone and GW2 for 2 weeks plus once a month for 2 hours after that. 

    +1

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon

    I also don't know what is the prejudice against Tabula Rasa.

    Even before Warhammer Online, Tabula Rasa had a form of Dynamic Events.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Piiritus
    Actually I think that Rift events were times better than GW2 DE's. Maybe that's why I could play Rift for 5 months despite it's being a complete WoW clone and GW2 for 2 weeks plus once a month for 2 hours after that. 

     

    And I had no interest in generic rifts spewing out mobs in a WoW clone at all yet have probably crossed over 1100 hours spent in GW2 now and still enjoy the Dynamic Event System.

     

    People like different things! Film at 11.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
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  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member

    GW2 events are very incredibly new and innovative and the developers should get a round of applause every morning on arrival at work.

    There, you can stop hyperventilating into a paper bag now.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by RefMinor

    GW2 events are very incredibly new and innovative and the developers should get a round of applause every morning on arrival at work.

    There, you can stop hyperventilating into a paper bag now.

     

    Thank you, thank you... I feel more relaxed now.

     

    Personally... I don't care where they got their inspiration from, be it War, Tabula Rasa or the ladies room wall. They work incredibly well in the game now, giving the world a much more organic, living feeling than those based around a static questing system to me, and really that's all that matters. I enjoy them.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    I also don't know what is the prejudice against Tabula Rasa.

    Even before Warhammer Online, Tabula Rasa had a form of Dynamic Events.

    What is a Tabula Rasa? Sounds like an STD.

    I'm just kidding of course.

     

    The fact that people count enjoyment by the hour now is hilarious to me as well. Do you guys have any idea how many actual days I have spread across 3 accounts on EQ1 since 1999/2000? Just checking my 5 most played characters I have 467 DAYS of real time played on them. Not counting bazaar mules while im offline and such either. I'd be pissed if only got a few hundred hours out of an MMO.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    I also don't know what is the prejudice against Tabula Rasa.

    Even before Warhammer Online, Tabula Rasa had a form of Dynamic Events.

    What is a Tabula Rasa? Sounds like an STD.

    I'm just kidding of course.

     

    The fact that people count enjoyment by the hour now is hilarious to me as well. Do you guys have any idea how many actual days I have spread across 3 accounts on EQ1 since 1999/2000? Just checking my 5 most played characters I have 467 DAYS of real time played on them. Not counting bazaar mules while im offline and such either. I'd be pissed if only got a few hundred hours out of an MMO.

    I've 416 days of GW1 (10K hours) and I've seen people with over 20K hours in there.

    I'll probably acquire similar amount of hours in GW2, albeit at a slower pace.

    But 1K hours in any game is clearly hardcore gamer.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    I also don't know what is the prejudice against Tabula Rasa.

    Even before Warhammer Online, Tabula Rasa had a form of Dynamic Events.

    What is a Tabula Rasa? Sounds like an STD.

    I'm just kidding of course.

     

    The fact that people count enjoyment by the hour now is hilarious to me as well. Do you guys have any idea how many actual days I have spread across 3 accounts on EQ1 since 1999/2000? Just checking my 5 most played characters I have 467 DAYS of real time played on them. Not counting bazaar mules while im offline and such either. I'd be pissed if only got a few hundred hours out of an MMO.

    I've 416 days of GW1 (10K hours) and I've seen people with over 20K hours in there.

    I'll probably acquire similar amount of hours in GW2, albeit at a slower pace.

    But 1K hours in any game is clearly hardcore gamer.

    Cool, I'm hardcore again! :D I can't imagine playing any game as much as I have EQ because it came out when I was in high school and let's just say I had a lot more free time haha. That's an impressive amount of time on GW1 sir, I bet you pwned many faces.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Every once in a while the events system in GW2 will surprise me.

    Like yesterday, I'm randomly wandering around a level 40-50 zone or some such and stumble upon a frog-people village that's been overrun by the Krayt or whatever.

    Slaughter a bunch of them, revive the frog people, they actually help me finish killing the Krayt and reviving the rest of the town.

    Shortly after, call is placed to attack the Krayt village/tower thing and free slaves they took, so I go and do that.

    Then I get to the top of this tower thing to find a Vista, and I now have a Champion Krayt queen standing between me and an inticing looking treasure chest.

    So I solo the Champion down, takes a good 4-5 minutes of pretty difficult combat, had to use my Elite twice in the fight.

    But I get her down, loot the chest, get a nice Rare lvl 80 Axe (TY Salvage for Globs!) 

    Do I know that eventually the Krayt will get themselves together and attack and reclaim the frog-people town?

    Probably.

    Do I care? Nope. I've moved on.

    But it was a good, fun chunk of content.

    The real problem I think all along is that Anet didn't have the balls to up the challenge enough to counter the zergs of players roaming around during the launch and such.

    Some of the stuff I did was quite tough, and it was because I was solo.

    Though I did another chain in some Asura research camp that was a lot of fun and challenging and it was me and 2 other random players.

    So TLDR -

    Event system would be much, much better if it was better balanced to be more difficult and scale up properly to combat the large player zergs.

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