I don't know why people keep bitching about STO. I log in once or twice a week and have a great time. Foundry access, ships, two characters, and I haven't paid a single cent.
Then again, I'm a PVEer and roleplayer. I don't PVP, and I don't give a crap about 'leet gear', lockboxes, or trying to 'win'. (By the way, you can't actually win at MMOs).
Not that I have seen anything that show P2W in this game.
Because it's PWE, F2P, and has a Cash Shop. Same reason why people rant that GW2 is P2W even though there is nothing there that gives a player an advatage. Karma/XP boosts are not an advantage over a player.
The beta access is a bonus, the packs will exist after release.
Wake up and learn about F2P models.
You still get beta keys for free from fansites and on twitter etc.
You didnt learn anything from the thread you made about this?
It is in my book. It just so happens that the day they announced Beta schedule they release these founders pack that grant CB access, all CB as it stands are paid for from either TL2 and RaiderZ with the exception of the lifetime members from STO and CO, they enphasize several times that it grants you beta access not to mention the very first line in the video is summed up as "bu founders packl and get Beta access." They ARE selling beta access, closed beta access at that. If they did not include it in the package I will gurantee that the packs will not nearly as sell as well and they know this. Beta access is the new sales pitch or carrot on the stick to sell pre-orders or "founders packs."
BETA = painfull test you done at your own time, full of alg = little pleasure, IMO.
I have no idea who and why can pay for beta test on himself.=D
Beside 200$ for ANY game is too much, even if it's a very good game. My WoW standard tell me that in case game cost 200$ + even optional, 15$ per month must be 100% same quality as WoW
I have no idea how to find out game quality from beta test.
I have huge doubt this game can be even to WoW (when great names like Tera, GW2, Aion etc failed).
I guess I don't even want to try it for free as it sound like unfair money trap already.
Good luck with hypo and one more "innovative" Asian MMO.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
BETA = painfull test you done at your own time, full of alg = little pleasure, IMO.
I have no idea who and why can pay for beta test on himself.=D
Beside 200$ for ANY game is too much, even if it's a very good game. My WoW standard tell me that in case game cost 200$ + even optional, 15$ per month must be 100% same quality as WoW
I have no idea how to find out game quality from beta test.
I have huge doubt this game can be even to WoW (when great names like Tera, GW2, Aion etc failed).
I guess I don't even want to try it for free as it sound like unfair money trap already.
Good luck with hypo and one more "innovative" Asian MMO.
For the record this isn't an asian MMO and wish people will get it through their heads. Neverwinter was already a finished product before PWE came into the picture and allowed Cryptic to develope the game more. When they did Cryptics was the one doing all the designing and artwork. Bout the only influence PWE is financial backing and probobly Cash Shop elements.
Originally posted by Rayshe Personally i think we need to stop Gaugeing Success via a Dollar Sign. "Success" should be something that has paramiters set by the company making the game. not by a bunch of no name internet junkies who throw around Xfire Stats.
Money is the score for activities within the economy. Its also the main reason for the exercise to start with. But only the company (and/or its investors/publisher) can determine if its profitable enough. As for the chattering class, managing their expectations and perceptions is what CM's and such are for.
I don't know why people keep bitching about STO. I log in once or twice a week and have a great time. Foundry access, ships, two characters, and I haven't paid a single cent.
Then again, I'm a PVEer and roleplayer. I don't PVP, and I don't give a crap about 'leet gear', lockboxes, or trying to 'win'. (By the way, you can't actually win at MMOs).
All that for zero cash expenditure. Bargain!
I can't speak for others, but Star Trek online was the ONLY MMO I've ever quit and uninstalled with only a few hours of play invested.
I have to say, at this stage, knowing so little about what this game is really goint to be like - including the way in which we're going to pay for it, I really would never consider spending $200 on it. I'd rather leave it and see what the thing is like when it comes out. Been too badly burned by MMOs in the past to risk another hit...
I said it long ago when this game was first announced and i will still to it...
"they will nickle and dime the player base threw the foundry".
That's my quote and if I am right you read it here, if not you can bash me, but that is the perfect cash shop ever devised. People that denied it before and probably now will rage against me with that comment, but if I was them I would be doing the same thing. Sadly, I just don't have that type of cash to throw around to make my stories ultra cool in chance that someone might actually play them out the of thousands that will be produced daily.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
1. a nitpick first, " Neverwinter Nights was originally developed by BioWare in 2002" this is NOT true. Neverwinter Nights was first an online game made by Stormfront Studios back in 1991. It was the first MMORPG with graphics.
2. This is one of the FEW games pushing a "lifetime" anything that I may actually take part in, if I get into the beta and try the combat out before hand. I dont want to see "Tera" action combat, I want more Vindictus action combat....Tera was far too limiting, grounded spell casting and skillslot based dodge is just plain aweful. Beyond the combat, the game itself looks good enough to warrent a one time money dump for a lifetime membership.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Asking for people to pay for these founder packs with little information on the actual game mechanics is a gutsy move, I have to wonder if this game will even succeed. If you pushing these things prior to an actual beta, there must be a threat in their mind to the game being viable. I only say this for if the game was awsome, that sort of thing would be done after or during beta would it not? To get allot more funding for your game is so awsome? They do say it's not "Paying for beta" which ok, you don't have to buy anything, but it still is in a way right? Ahh the sneaky things marketing people do.
My only thought is, the game must have issues to push this incentive prior to anyone playing, I am actually suprised people are buying into this without having played 1min of the game. Wishfull thinking I guess?
Edit: I should note before the hate comes, I do have a lifetime to sto and i had (Had being the keyword) life time to CO,,,, so I am really not one to speak on this I guess to a point, hmm call me a bit more sinical after spending this type of cash and seeing nothing come of it but promises. I feel a bit gilted at this point and I think others should learn from our mistakes. I made them and won't make them again. Everyone however is free to choose what they please, just saying, if the shit hit's the fan later, don't come crying, you been warned multiple times from multiple people.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
The payment model I think makes most sense is buy-to-play, as utilised by GW2 and TSW. That way people make a cash commitment up front to play the game, but with no monthly subscription. That way the developers etc get some guaranteed income, and the cash shop can fill any shortfall.
BETA = painfull test you done at your own time, full of alg = little pleasure, IMO.
I have no idea who and why can pay for beta test on himself.=D
Beside 200$ for ANY game is too much, even if it's a very good game. My WoW standard tell me that in case game cost 200$ + even optional, 15$ per month must be 100% same quality as WoW
I have no idea how to find out game quality from beta test.
I have huge doubt this game can be even to WoW (when great names like Tera, GW2, Aion etc failed).
I guess I don't even want to try it for free as it sound like unfair money trap already.
Good luck with hypo and one more "innovative" Asian MMO.
For the record this isn't an asian MMO and wish people will get it through their heads. Neverwinter was already a finished product before PWE came into the picture and allowed Cryptic to develope the game more. When they did Cryptics was the one doing all the designing and artwork. Bout the only influence PWE is financial backing and probobly Cash Shop elements.
Cryptic has'nt had a decent game in ages if ever, they have systematically srewed up every game theyve touched. As for PWE's involvement in the "cash shop"..... ever play Eden Eternal, PWI or any other PWE game? they are wallet destroyers. you P2W in those games and unfortunately they plan on doing the same to neverwinter. Not looking forward to this team up and never will. I learned my lesson with STO I will not make the same mistake again. I Paid 285 to Star Citizen and another 500 for my wife and I for Citadel of Sorcery and those are still in Developement. You may ask "why pay for a game thats still in developement?"
Its simple. They arent being developed by Blizzard, Cryptic, Bioware, EA, PWE or any of these other half assed game developers. Cris Roberts is a known Game legend from his days of creating Wing Commander and following it with Freelancer.. He has a proven record of success in gaming. Citadel of Sorcery is doing things different and not catering to the big wigs.. yet....But it offers much of what ive wanted to see in an MMO.. lack of catalog quests, choose your story type questing, Open world that is an actual world.. the simple things in life but much more involved.
If one wants to pay 200 dollars for a beta access let them, its thier money. Common sense though should tell one tat Betas are pre release bug and exploit finds... you shouldnt have to pay for it considering its a service you are doing for the developer.
And before andyone says the stupid line that youre not paying for beta... yes you are.. the digital crap you get in the package isnt worth a damned dime. just because they add a price to pixels doesnt make it worth something.
I recently re installed Star trek online to see the new changes, I completely forgot how janky and stunted movement in that game is, animations are awful and the controls have so little response you have to anticipate and pause between turning and moving.
Let's not forget neverwinter is under the umbrella of cryptic, a studio that has yet to produce a triple a gaming experince, despite marketing thier titles as such. Buggy heavily instanced games with sluggish ugly user interfaces and jerky combat.
sto still has incomplete features, a half completed faction and has yet to deliver on it's pvp.
The Klingon faction despite 3 YEARS of promises and rhetoric is a very good indication of the mindset of cryptic and it's work ethic, I was sad to see they aquired the Neverwinter Licsense especially considering the legacy the original game had provided. Cryptic studios will do with neverwinter what it has done with all it's titles, produce a bare bones effort and rely on cash grabs and lottery income to float further medicore updates.
having fallen for the trap of a lifetime sub to sto, I know I wont be so quick to give cryptic money again, 3 years after blowing 200 bucks on STO, my Klingon character sits forgotten along with the rest of the faction.
I really hope they don't go for the GW2 RNG black lion keys crap. That's the second worst implementation of a cash shop I've ever seen. Just one step down from the cash shops that Perfect World Entertainment has been using for years... I think I smell something... Must be crap.
Originally posted by zonzai I really hope they don't go for the GW2 RNG black lion keys crap. That's the second worst implementation of a cash shop I've ever seen. Just one step down from the cash shops that Perfect World Entertainment has been using for years... I think I smell something... Must be crap.
Oh yes, having Black Lion Chests that:
- Contained only cosmetic / fluff items / buffs that were readily available in game
- Were openable by drops in game
- Were able to be sold / traded to other players
- Stacked so they didnt take up heaps of inventory room
Definitely the worst money grab in history I have ever seen! Honestly I just sell the keys on the marketplace when I get them as drops or as rewards for daily / monthly achievements. There is nothing in those chests that I have any interest in whatsoever.
Haha are you even serious? Or was this just a desperate troll attempt against GW2?
Pretty much every other game with a cash shop has done it worse than GW2. I cant think of a single cash shop that has had less items which actually impact on gameplay.
Go have a look at EQ2, LOTRO, Aion, Age of Conan or the myriad of F2P games if you want to see games that actually rip you off or offer gameplay advantages for using the cash shop.
GW2 is new, you would not expect it to have a cash shop that is as P2W as older titles. If you know all those titles that says to me you are an older player. As such you must realise that cash shops only get worse, they don't get better.
Thats the issue here, they start OK so that the anti cash shop players are not so vocal. Then they get worse step by step.
One thing CO (another Cryptic title) doesn't do badly is the cash shop. You might be able to criticize vehicles, because those are lock-box only, but travel powers are available from level 6+ and they are "better" than vehicles in most situations. So it's really just a flavor point. The remaining items are primarily "fluff" - additional bag slots, additional character slots, costume pieces, XP buffs and some health items, many of which are available in the game as unlocks for doing this or that (in some cases, just talking to an NPC after a certain level). The point being is that nothing there is required to make a fun game experience, at all.
The "P2W" comments must be being generated by the fact that you can't play exactly what you want to, appearance-wise, if you don't pay, or someone who does pay gets something you can't otherwise get - but it's certainly not power/PvP kills/whatever.
As to Cryptic making a mediocre game, at least for STO and CO, I can't argue there. There are generally lots of detailed features planned that just don't work out or get into the release. But as far as engine behavior, at least CO is a better game to play than DDO (for me). DDO has strange "pauses" for the "round" which really distract from gameplay. And activation of many abilities as a cleric have a definite delay, then an animation, then take effect. It just doesn't feel immersive.
As far as Foundry, it's not being monetized. Which is grand. There is a limit of 8 adventures per account until you get a rated adventure (which makes sense; don't want the server glutted with unpublished content). Once you have a non-garbage adventure published, you get more slots. If all eight are rated, you will get additional slots per, from my understanding of the video.
Added external content did extend the life of BW's NWN by quite a bit. CEP did not specifically extend it, however - CEP was a compilation of stuff which people used already. CEP came pretty late in the game's life, and was almost never used in modules when it initially released. This is not to downplay its usefulness, for it was useful. I'd say the Stratavarius PRC pack was more "life extending". Mod builders (for the most part, be they PW or otherwise) tended to extract the assets they specifically needed. The scripting was a really big boon to module creators and PW admins, however, because things could be changed back-end to make your Harry Potter world rules, or make a magic system which worked like the WOT books (taint, etc.). But honestly, many, many many SP/MP adventures from NWN and NWN2 required NO haks or very little custom scripting to enjoy. And were highly rated.
But the fact of the matter is that, as long as they develop the Foundry further and add more options to it, this game does have promise. That's the "if" we can't answer. But they'd be nuts just to drop that development, since it requires 1/5th the manpower to add 10x the content.
Comments
I don't know why people keep bitching about STO. I log in once or twice a week and have a great time. Foundry access, ships, two characters, and I haven't paid a single cent.
Then again, I'm a PVEer and roleplayer. I don't PVP, and I don't give a crap about 'leet gear', lockboxes, or trying to 'win'. (By the way, you can't actually win at MMOs).
All that for zero cash expenditure. Bargain!
Hello total stranger! I am your new best friend!
Now hand me that beta key of yours! XD
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Because it's PWE, F2P, and has a Cash Shop. Same reason why people rant that GW2 is P2W even though there is nothing there that gives a player an advatage. Karma/XP boosts are not an advantage over a player.
It is in my book. It just so happens that the day they announced Beta schedule they release these founders pack that grant CB access, all CB as it stands are paid for from either TL2 and RaiderZ with the exception of the lifetime members from STO and CO, they enphasize several times that it grants you beta access not to mention the very first line in the video is summed up as "bu founders packl and get Beta access." They ARE selling beta access, closed beta access at that. If they did not include it in the package I will gurantee that the packs will not nearly as sell as well and they know this. Beta access is the new sales pitch or carrot on the stick to sell pre-orders or "founders packs."
BETA = painfull test you done at your own time, full of alg = little pleasure, IMO.
I have no idea who and why can pay for beta test on himself.=D
Beside 200$ for ANY game is too much, even if it's a very good game. My WoW standard tell me that in case game cost 200$ + even optional, 15$ per month must be 100% same quality as WoW
I have no idea how to find out game quality from beta test.
I have huge doubt this game can be even to WoW (when great names like Tera, GW2, Aion etc failed).
I guess I don't even want to try it for free as it sound like unfair money trap already.
Good luck with hypo and one more "innovative" Asian MMO.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
For the record this isn't an asian MMO and wish people will get it through their heads. Neverwinter was already a finished product before PWE came into the picture and allowed Cryptic to develope the game more. When they did Cryptics was the one doing all the designing and artwork. Bout the only influence PWE is financial backing and probobly Cash Shop elements.
Money is the score for activities within the economy. Its also the main reason for the exercise to start with. But only the company (and/or its investors/publisher) can determine if its profitable enough. As for the chattering class, managing their expectations and perceptions is what CM's and such are for.
I can't speak for others, but Star Trek online was the ONLY MMO I've ever quit and uninstalled with only a few hours of play invested.
I said it long ago when this game was first announced and i will still to it...
"they will nickle and dime the player base threw the foundry".
That's my quote and if I am right you read it here, if not you can bash me, but that is the perfect cash shop ever devised. People that denied it before and probably now will rage against me with that comment, but if I was them I would be doing the same thing. Sadly, I just don't have that type of cash to throw around to make my stories ultra cool in chance that someone might actually play them out the of thousands that will be produced daily.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
1. a nitpick first, " Neverwinter Nights was originally developed by BioWare in 2002" this is NOT true. Neverwinter Nights was first an online game made by Stormfront Studios back in 1991. It was the first MMORPG with graphics.
2. This is one of the FEW games pushing a "lifetime" anything that I may actually take part in, if I get into the beta and try the combat out before hand. I dont want to see "Tera" action combat, I want more Vindictus action combat....Tera was far too limiting, grounded spell casting and skillslot based dodge is just plain aweful. Beyond the combat, the game itself looks good enough to warrent a one time money dump for a lifetime membership.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Got to give them the "big balls" award thou....
Asking for people to pay for these founder packs with little information on the actual game mechanics is a gutsy move, I have to wonder if this game will even succeed. If you pushing these things prior to an actual beta, there must be a threat in their mind to the game being viable. I only say this for if the game was awsome, that sort of thing would be done after or during beta would it not? To get allot more funding for your game is so awsome? They do say it's not "Paying for beta" which ok, you don't have to buy anything, but it still is in a way right? Ahh the sneaky things marketing people do.
My only thought is, the game must have issues to push this incentive prior to anyone playing, I am actually suprised people are buying into this without having played 1min of the game. Wishfull thinking I guess?
Edit: I should note before the hate comes, I do have a lifetime to sto and i had (Had being the keyword) life time to CO,,,, so I am really not one to speak on this I guess to a point, hmm call me a bit more sinical after spending this type of cash and seeing nothing come of it but promises. I feel a bit gilted at this point and I think others should learn from our mistakes. I made them and won't make them again. Everyone however is free to choose what they please, just saying, if the shit hit's the fan later, don't come crying, you been warned multiple times from multiple people.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Game looks poor,
Been fooled enough (and of my hard earnend money) of pre exsisting Mmo's that failed to acomplish what they promised.
So im going to wait for a decent review, and let other mindless zombies fork insane cash for it.
Only to watch them complain in the end.
/popcorn mode activated.
Cryptic has'nt had a decent game in ages if ever, they have systematically srewed up every game theyve touched. As for PWE's involvement in the "cash shop"..... ever play Eden Eternal, PWI or any other PWE game? they are wallet destroyers. you P2W in those games and unfortunately they plan on doing the same to neverwinter. Not looking forward to this team up and never will. I learned my lesson with STO I will not make the same mistake again. I Paid 285 to Star Citizen and another 500 for my wife and I for Citadel of Sorcery and those are still in Developement. You may ask "why pay for a game thats still in developement?"
Its simple. They arent being developed by Blizzard, Cryptic, Bioware, EA, PWE or any of these other half assed game developers. Cris Roberts is a known Game legend from his days of creating Wing Commander and following it with Freelancer.. He has a proven record of success in gaming. Citadel of Sorcery is doing things different and not catering to the big wigs.. yet....But it offers much of what ive wanted to see in an MMO.. lack of catalog quests, choose your story type questing, Open world that is an actual world.. the simple things in life but much more involved.
If one wants to pay 200 dollars for a beta access let them, its thier money. Common sense though should tell one tat Betas are pre release bug and exploit finds... you shouldnt have to pay for it considering its a service you are doing for the developer.
And before andyone says the stupid line that youre not paying for beta... yes you are.. the digital crap you get in the package isnt worth a damned dime. just because they add a price to pixels doesnt make it worth something.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
that trailer sucked, and whoever it was that did the narrative is sure not a gamer
pass
I recently re installed Star trek online to see the new changes, I completely forgot how janky and stunted movement in that game is, animations are awful and the controls have so little response you have to anticipate and pause between turning and moving.
Let's not forget neverwinter is under the umbrella of cryptic, a studio that has yet to produce a triple a gaming experince, despite marketing thier titles as such. Buggy heavily instanced games with sluggish ugly user interfaces and jerky combat.
sto still has incomplete features, a half completed faction and has yet to deliver on it's pvp.
The Klingon faction despite 3 YEARS of promises and rhetoric is a very good indication of the mindset of cryptic and it's work ethic, I was sad to see they aquired the Neverwinter Licsense especially considering the legacy the original game had provided. Cryptic studios will do with neverwinter what it has done with all it's titles, produce a bare bones effort and rely on cash grabs and lottery income to float further medicore updates.
having fallen for the trap of a lifetime sub to sto, I know I wont be so quick to give cryptic money again, 3 years after blowing 200 bucks on STO, my Klingon character sits forgotten along with the rest of the faction.
Oh yes, having Black Lion Chests that:
- Contained only cosmetic / fluff items / buffs that were readily available in game
- Were openable by drops in game
- Were able to be sold / traded to other players
- Stacked so they didnt take up heaps of inventory room
Definitely the worst money grab in history I have ever seen! Honestly I just sell the keys on the marketplace when I get them as drops or as rewards for daily / monthly achievements. There is nothing in those chests that I have any interest in whatsoever.
Haha are you even serious? Or was this just a desperate troll attempt against GW2?
Pretty much every other game with a cash shop has done it worse than GW2. I cant think of a single cash shop that has had less items which actually impact on gameplay.
Go have a look at EQ2, LOTRO, Aion, Age of Conan or the myriad of F2P games if you want to see games that actually rip you off or offer gameplay advantages for using the cash shop.
GW2 is new, you would not expect it to have a cash shop that is as P2W as older titles. If you know all those titles that says to me you are an older player. As such you must realise that cash shops only get worse, they don't get better.
Thats the issue here, they start OK so that the anti cash shop players are not so vocal. Then they get worse step by step.
One thing CO (another Cryptic title) doesn't do badly is the cash shop. You might be able to criticize vehicles, because those are lock-box only, but travel powers are available from level 6+ and they are "better" than vehicles in most situations. So it's really just a flavor point. The remaining items are primarily "fluff" - additional bag slots, additional character slots, costume pieces, XP buffs and some health items, many of which are available in the game as unlocks for doing this or that (in some cases, just talking to an NPC after a certain level). The point being is that nothing there is required to make a fun game experience, at all.
The "P2W" comments must be being generated by the fact that you can't play exactly what you want to, appearance-wise, if you don't pay, or someone who does pay gets something you can't otherwise get - but it's certainly not power/PvP kills/whatever.
As to Cryptic making a mediocre game, at least for STO and CO, I can't argue there. There are generally lots of detailed features planned that just don't work out or get into the release. But as far as engine behavior, at least CO is a better game to play than DDO (for me). DDO has strange "pauses" for the "round" which really distract from gameplay. And activation of many abilities as a cleric have a definite delay, then an animation, then take effect. It just doesn't feel immersive.
As far as Foundry, it's not being monetized. Which is grand. There is a limit of 8 adventures per account until you get a rated adventure (which makes sense; don't want the server glutted with unpublished content). Once you have a non-garbage adventure published, you get more slots. If all eight are rated, you will get additional slots per, from my understanding of the video.
Added external content did extend the life of BW's NWN by quite a bit. CEP did not specifically extend it, however - CEP was a compilation of stuff which people used already. CEP came pretty late in the game's life, and was almost never used in modules when it initially released. This is not to downplay its usefulness, for it was useful. I'd say the Stratavarius PRC pack was more "life extending". Mod builders (for the most part, be they PW or otherwise) tended to extract the assets they specifically needed. The scripting was a really big boon to module creators and PW admins, however, because things could be changed back-end to make your Harry Potter world rules, or make a magic system which worked like the WOT books (taint, etc.). But honestly, many, many many SP/MP adventures from NWN and NWN2 required NO haks or very little custom scripting to enjoy. And were highly rated.
But the fact of the matter is that, as long as they develop the Foundry further and add more options to it, this game does have promise. That's the "if" we can't answer. But they'd be nuts just to drop that development, since it requires 1/5th the manpower to add 10x the content.