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When people played Skyrim, did they complain that they were locked out of Morrowind, or Cyrodil? I am not sure its thats much different in ESO. Is being aware of another area's existence really that frustrating for you? The alliance areas will each be larger than any ES game thus far. Its not like they are tucking the whole alliance into one corner of one of the ES regions... they are giving us 1+ ES regions per alliance, plus a massive PvP zone. And you can always visit the other alliance areas when you reroll, which provides more content and longevity.
Face it, the developers would never be dumb enough to take the ES franchise and turn it into a pure PvP game. It would turn off the ES fanbase and would be a financial disaster. I think they have done well combining the ES levelling world with a PvP endgame, and hopefully have kep the game's appeal as broad as possible.
Elladan - ESO (AD)Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)Kili - WoWEol - Lineage 2Camring - SWGJustinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by cura Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by cura Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by cura Nope. Lack of open world pvp, housing and sand box features did.
Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release. Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.
Cyrodill is closed area, there are no details on how they want to implement housing and themeparks are for low intelligence masses. See what i did here?
Cyodill is a zone jsut as much as Skyrim is a zone. Hence it is an open area. You're thinking of seemless versus zoning and it has no bearing on whether or not its open or instanced.
I know what is difference between zoned and simless world and i dont care if game is one or another. But if there is only one zone to pvp you cant say its open world pvp. What bothers me is i would not have my favourite random pvp during leveling. I couldnt care less about zerging in Cyrodill. Its boring.
Thats like me getting to call the sky Periwinkle when it's obviously blue grey. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Huge difference between Open and Instanced. Zoned and seemless. Cyrodill is an Open World Zone and sense PvP takes place in it then by definition it is open world PvP. Theres only Open and instanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see your point and could agree to call it limited open world pvp since you can pvp only in ~25% of the world.
Originally posted by deakon Originally posted by koboldfodder The majority of people who play video games do not play computer games. The majority of people who play computer games do not play MMOs The majority of people who play MMOs want nothing to do with PVP The majority of people who play PVP MMOs want open world PVP. The majority of people who play open world PVP want nothing to do with a WOW clone. If you read the forums, the majority of people who critisize TESO do so because it reminds them of WOW. The same themepark MMO they have been tryin got shove down our throats for the past seven years. This game manages to insult just about every fanbase at one. There has been so much negativity about this game from the second it was announced, there is no way it can overcome the anti-hype. Why model this game around DAOC....a game that at the very best you can only call a mediocre success for two years. Why not model it around the actual game it is supposed to represent, The Elder Scrolls. Because the developers are too lazy to try to figure out new ideas.
It has more in common with tes than daoc.
It's using faction lock and rvr from doac, but the combat system, stat system, itemization, sneaking, lore, even the progression system is closer to tes than daoc, it's taking the gameplay of tes games and adding the PvP from daoc, not just slapping a tes skin on daoc
Agreed. I dont understand the other post at all. I dont even think he realized the implication of their post.
ESO is not targeting a single monolithic player type. I mean, I play the ES series but I also play MMOs. So do many other ES players. Its not like they are separate playerbases, there is overlap. There is also overlap between people who like PvP and people who play ES, just like there is overlap between people who like PvE and people who like PvP. Its not like there are a bunch of mutually exclusive groups and its impossible to appeal to more than one.
The big challenge in MMO's these days is to provide an endgame. Look at SWTOR and GW2. Good games but they lose players once the players level up, the games dont provide a lot of reason for many players to keep playing. ESO could have gone the 'PvE raid' route, where the endgame is getting better gear by grinding raid dungeons. Instead they have gone the DAoC route where PvP is the endgame. Personally I like that a lot better. Plus they have not abandoned the PvE/levelling experience like a pure PvP game might. I think thats a pretty sensible combination. Pure PvE players dont have to PvP, they can level up and then re-roll in another alliance. Certainly the existence of a PvP endgame wont chase them away from trying the game and having fun. But that endgame also gives more serious players something to do once they hit max level, and hopefully we will retain a lot more of its players than SWTOR and GW2 seem likely to do.
I said this in another thread, but its impossible to do a pure exploration game as a MMORPG because they simply cant create material as fast as players run through it. Look how long they spent on Skyrim, and how quickly some players ran through the content. That just isnt a sustainable model for a game that wants to keep players beyond a few months. That being said, I do think it should take more than the 120 hours they stated to make max level. I guess thats just a symptom of what WoW has done to MMORPGs, but that is what a large proportion of players will expect and I can see why they arent making it harder core levelling.
Originally posted by Eol- When people played Skyrim, did they complain that they were locked out of Morrowind, or Cyrodil? I am not sure its thats much different in ESO.
That's a horrible argument.
As a matter of fact it doesn't make any sense.
in a bizarro world one could ask your question if one bought an all encompassing single player elder scrolls game that had all three factions/areas BUT the player could only pick one to adventure in and the rest of the content would be closed to them.
It's a stretch but there it is.
People didn't compalin about other areas not being there because the scope of skyrim was "skyrim" and those other areas aren't there as playable areas. I say "playable" areas because morrowind seems to be there in land mass.
Your argument doesn't seem to stem from being an elder scrolls player. Or, perhaps better said, I would be surprised if you were.
The scope of ESO is a reasonable representation of the world of the elder scrolls. I say reasonable because there is only so much land mass they can create and add with content.
Elder Scrolls players want to create a character and explore the world of the elder scrolls. I highly doubt any elder scrolls players who were invested in elder scrolls game play/ideology ever said "you know, I'd love to have an elder scrolls online game but man it would really solidify everything if it was like DAoC!"
They probably would be more likely to say "man, I really want an Elder Scrolls game but I want it to have the breadth of Daggerfall (if they go way back) or even Morrowind.
I don't think adding pvp is the issue nor do I think creating factions is the issue (though how those factions are created is a bone of contention for some) but what is the issue is that the world of elderscrolls has been created and one has to make an alt of a completely different race in order to see it.
You want to make your argument more fitting? It's like someone buying Oblvion and having to make an alt of a different race to go to Anvil. And then ask whether or not they complain. If they don't then you are right on the money.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Eol- When people played Skyrim, did they complain that they were locked out of Morrowind, or Cyrodil? I am not sure its thats much different in ESO.
in a bizarro world one could ask your question if one bought an all encompassing elder scrolls game that had all three factions/areas BUT the player could only pick one to adventure with and the rest of the content would be closed to them.
People didn't compalin about other areas not being there because the scope of skyrim was skyrim and those other areas aren't there as playable areas. I say "playable" areas because morrowind seems to be there in land mass.
You want to make your argument more fitting? It's like someone buying Oblvion and having to make an alt of a different race to go to Anvil. And then whether or not they complain.
No. I'm not offending you in any manner, but you misunderstood the other post (by eol).
What he meant is... What will be happening is when you pick a faction, the SCOPE will be your faction. Like... how can I explain this. The SCOPE of skyrim is skyrim... the pve scope of Ebon people will be "Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh". The pve scope of Dagger ppl will be their own lands and the pve scope of elves will be elfland.
Its like, pve wise, your "scope" is your own land, like in TES series. With an extra scope added for PvP. The PvP scope is "kill everything whos name is red, capture their little towers, secure their keeps and kill those damn imperials also.
But since PvE-wise the scope doesnt change, it will be just like any TES game.
you wont be missing cyrodill in TES because it is there, but you will be locked out of any other faction land just like in a TES game only this time PVE wise you'll have something like 3 huge TES games in one. 1 will be Skyrim, Morrowind, Black Marsh, 2 will be Hammerfell, High Rock, Orsinium (dont know bout this one) and 3 Summerset Isle, Vallenwood (not sure) and Elsweyr.
Thats why the above poster said that - since the factions dont meet each other in PvE, he asked "have you missed morrowind in skyrim?" Like... are you going to miss Hammerfell playing a Nord? You didnt in Skyrim so...
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
I completley understand that argument and you sumarize it well. Whatever faction you choose becomes your "skyrim" as opposed to "morrowind". It's as if one had a choice of multiplayer elder scrolls games , one of skyrim, one of morrowind, etc.
The issue is for elder scrolls players is that they have always been able to go the breadth of the land. Since the entiretly of the elder scrolls world (within limited resources) exists, they want to go there. They want to finally experience the breadth of the Elder Scrolls universe and walk on the sands of Elsweyr, climb the mountains of Skyirm, experience the great city of Cyrodyll (or however that's spelled). In Other Elder Scrolls games (well, morrowind and Skyrim) other lands have been made allowing players to go to Elseweyr, or Cyrodil, etc.
and no I'm not taking offense nor do I hope to give it. I just think that the point from elder scrolls fans is that they want to be able to experience the whole of Nirn with their chosen character in a way that represents their playstyle and they can't. Or they can but they need to make an alt and essentially play another game.
Originally posted by ShakyMo People are still having this weird misconception that daoc was like taking a game like say rift then dividing the world in 3. It wasn't, it was like taking a game like vanilla rift, adding 2 more games like rift, then adding a 4th game like planetside that players from the other 3 could pvp each other in. People are moaning about getting less pve content, when in fact they are getting more pve content.
Thank you for being so much better than me in the process of converting thoughts into coherent text. lol
Serioulsy... that was way simpler than what I said lol and shorter! Thanks!
To the others: WHAT HE SAID - DONT READ MINE READ THIS - says the same in a better and faster way lol
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
I know... and I cant say it wouldnt be fun to be a nord and take a stroll to hammerfell... BUT... considering what you see in WoW and other games that let you walk around the other faction's lands, I have to choose the lesser of two evils. I rather not go to Hammerfell than to have a WoW-like experience where faction simply doesnt matter at all at any level.
If you're questing or "pveing" you get ganked by a 90... or corpse camped by some idiot who has no life between his randoms. If you ask for help, your own faction says "oh man, screw that... just log another toon and come back later", if they're sieging your capital "guys they're coming for orgrimmar" - "screw it, just finishing buying my pots in ah then I have to go raid xxx let them have fun, I dont care", or "theres an horde farming in Goldshire /wave /kiss" - what the hell?
In daoc... you saw a little tower getting attacked, you issued a freaking call to arms and everyone would drop what they were doing and come to help... crafting or fighting dragons, didnt matter, people would just all quit their stuff and ran to the frontiers... from the well geared 50s to little 35's, you'd seen them all there, because "Our stuff is OUR stuff and no one TAKES OUR STUFF".
Its hard to explain the concept in DAoC without mentioning something that I'll get flamed and ridiculed by it but I'll say it - Realm Pride. The lack of "contact" with other factions didnt allow for you to develop any kind of emotional feeling towards them besides "hate them, kill them, take their stuff, if they do the same, try and get their women and children also, get their heads on pikes on the way to our keep just to show them". So... to promote the rivalry and utter hate towards the other faction is needed for you to only see the bad stuff about them - taking your stuff - if you realize that they're just like you doing the same stuff, you grow a feeling of "understanding" - and pvp (and curiously real life wars) only really work when you only demonize the enemy... if you're at war with China or Russia, you dont really want your troops and common citizens to watch them having dinner with their families and celebrating birthdays, that would just soften your "fighting spirit" - same applies here
Thats why I agree with no contact with other factions. I dont want to /hug /wave /kiss a Breton... I want to /slit, kill them all and /pray. (I used to /pray in DAoC after killing someone cause the character would do this cross sign emote with his right hand like a extreme unction or anointing of the sick (since I was an alb)
Originally posted by ShakyMo Deakon I would say the itemisation and progression system are Both tes and daoc. Stuff like crafting being important, lateral progression after level cap, just wandering off and finding stuff etc.. are strong concepts in daoc. Both games have a simmilar grimy darkish fantasy setting too. It's some of the reasons the 3 newest tes games remind me strongly of it, especially Morrowind as it uses the same engine. Although I would say ac is the closest mmo to tes.
I was talking about being able to use any item type regardless of class and the fact that theres skill based progression (more i use fireball the more fireball levels up), those concepts are verry elder scrolls
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't do everything in tes games. In skyrim you make a choice imperial or nord, you get to change your mind 2nd quest in but after that you're locked to that quest chain. You cant be both a vampire and a dawnguard, you can't be both a werewolf and a vampire. You also have to choose blades or dragon priests. You also will have fun getting in the mages guild if you've pumped all your stats into combat. In Morrowind you had exclusive choice of 3 houses, joining various guilds put you in opositions to the others, joining the morag tong expelled you from the dark brotherhood etc.. You generally need to make a few characters to do all the quests in tes games. Less so with skyrim, but with Morrowind and oblivion it was common to make 3 chars one if each archetype, then pick factions to join that wouldn't black your oath on other factions.
The problem is, with all those choices that were available you never had to choose ANY of them. You were not forced into a particular playstyle from the start. You create a character, explore the world, discover things and somewhere along the line might be faced with a choice. No matter how many choices there was, like 3 houses or either werewolf or vampire....you always had the choice of walking away.
No matter what character I make, whichever race I choose, I am part of the war and I cannot do anything about that. And seeing as the war only actually takes place in 1 or the 10 regions that is a pretty big thing to force onto people. That is a really BIG problem for me personally. And from that stems all the other problems like not being able to explore the entire continent of Tamriel like the posters say I can!
well, my first mmo experience was lineage 2 and if someone was ganked your whole guild/alliance would be there. So, I take it in WoW you never had a group get killed only to gather 200 supporters to cross the land just to rez them and exact retribution on the offenders?
I understand "realm pride" but just in the form of one's own guild/alliance family".
Originally posted by Maelwydd Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't do everything in tes games. In skyrim you make a choice imperial or nord, you get to change your mind 2nd quest in but after that you're locked to that quest chain. You cant be both a vampire and a dawnguard, you can't be both a werewolf and a vampire. You also have to choose blades or dragon priests. You also will have fun getting in the mages guild if you've pumped all your stats into combat. In Morrowind you had exclusive choice of 3 houses, joining various guilds put you in opositions to the others, joining the morag tong expelled you from the dark brotherhood etc.. You generally need to make a few characters to do all the quests in tes games. Less so with skyrim, but with Morrowind and oblivion it was common to make 3 chars one if each archetype, then pick factions to join that wouldn't black your oath on other factions.
One of the primary features of any TES game is that from the very beginning you could deviate from the storyline and do your own thing, you werent forced into choosing between 2 or 3 different things, you could choose them, if you wanted to, but it wasnt something that was forced on you, which.. despite my having been playing Skyrim now since the game came out, i havent actually completed the storyline, i didnt join the stormcloaks, i didnt join the imperials, although i did join a few of the 'dodgier' organisations along the way.. and it was/is a fun game, still.. can you do that kind of thing with ESO.. no, because ESO is just another of the 'you must play the game the way we say' games..
Originally posted by ikarrian Precisely. So what to do about it... Well you can always make your own game. Or wait till Beta and judge after you've seen it.
what you mentioned isn't the only option, Remember how when ESO first came out, immediately everyone started complaining about how they were gonna add skills into the game, after a few months of silence, finally they changed their methods, and went back to Mana, Stamina, Health bars only, no more skills like other MMO.
What that means is that if enough people give realistic comments and methods in which they can fix, with time, if they see that its really an big deal, they will change it.
I have already Read alot of fixes that others thought of, including, instead of Three Race factions, its Three Power Factions that everyone can join, but is locked after joining. That means, you can have a mixture of different races within one Power faction. Or based on Guild, or based on Political Sides. But nothing is locked once you created your character, only afterwards.
And these fixes that I have read doesn't bash the developers, rather its giving them options to make a game that is closer to the feeling of Elder Scrolls.
Sitting there and taking what ever the Developer throws at you without any input is the worst thing a Gamer can do. Developers are humans as well, the team that works to bring you the game are also Human, with proper and realistic suggestions and input is what helps them create a better game.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Originally posted by Lucioon Originally posted by ikarrian Precisely. So what to do about it... Well you can always make your own game. Or wait till Beta and judge after you've seen it.
Also when you think of a TES game you think of the comminity and the mods. While I can completely accept that mods will not happen, the precident is established tha the community is very commited to improving the game. Very often it has been mentioned that Bethesda simply love what the community is able to do with mods. They sometimes come up with some really great idea's and sometime better then what was designed for the game.
Now we the community may not be able to mod the game, but in the same spirit as is present within the modding community a responsible developer would understand that, sometimes the community actually knows what they want better then the developer does. It may not happen often but it does happen.
So I see any post made by a fan who is critical of a feature and offers a suggestion on how to improve it is 100% within the spirit of the TES series. The only thing they lack is the ability to physically do something about the improvement as they cannot make a mod. I hope the developers understand the valuable imput the community (and lets face it buying public) can provide and pay attention to what people are saying.
You know if enough people have the same opinion and opposers are simply oppsed because they don't care it is probably worth a second look.
ESO should alow players to explore every content as long if player/s don't join any sides.
Originally posted by znaiika ESO should alow players to explore every content as long if player/s don't join any sides.
I dont know if Switzerland is a playable faction...
Originally posted by DSWBeef Somewhat. Its really bad for my guild which all like different races. I like the Bosmer but my GL likes nords......
This isa problem in all faction games though not just ESO. I remember wanting to play a Shaman in vanilla WoW but my friends wanted to play night elves. Same thing in DAoC, I wanted to play Hibernia (I am Irish after all) but I choose to follow my guildies and play Albion. The trick is to find the right race/class for each faction.
I know for a fact I want to play a Dunmer (Dark Elf) but I have also settled on a Bossmer if the guild goes the Aldmeri Dominion. Now if they go Daggerfall I am screwed because I don't like any of those races lol.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!