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What right has this game to associate itself either with NWN or D&D in truth?

VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,639Member Uncommon

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon

    It doesn't, Neverwinter is just the name of a city in Fearun. This isn't NWN 3 people just see "Neverwinter" and jump to that conclusion. 

    It's DND but based on 4e and has the approval of WOTC so..

     

    Also it's "Neverwinter" Online because it's linked to RA Salvatore "Neverwinter saga" though im sure marketing fully expected fans to get hyped and link this game to previous NWN games.

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  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,639Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    It doesn't, Neverwinter is just the name of a city in Fearun. This isn't NWN 3 people just see "Neverwinter" and jump to that conclusion. 

    It's DND but based on 4e and has the approval of WOTC so..

     

    Also it's "Neverwinter" Online because it's linked to RA Salvatore "Neverwinter saga" though im sure marketing fully expected fans to get hyped and link this game to previous NWN games.

     

    Interesting... how closely does it follow 4E? I never played that version of D&D, but interested nonetheless.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member

    It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

     

    What else exactly does it need?  A  full set of multi sided die and a fat guy with cystic acne narrating the dungeon while you play?

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,639Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Draemos

    It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

    What else exactly does it need?  

     

    Well, I haver actually played and enjoyed different D&D games that use the D&D ruleset (whatever it was at the time) to greater or lesser effect... Have you not?

    Does this game actually have *any* D&D under it's thin skin of names and lore?

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    I really dont know OP.......

    I do, however, suggest everyone go and spend $200 on the founders pack just to make sure.  It will be a sound investment, you have my word.

    EDIT:  As for TESO.....     For some reason it just doesnt feel as sleazy and grimy.  I cant articulate why I feel that way though.  I atleast have high hopes for TESO, but it stops there. 

    I will laugh when everyone says NWN 1 multiplayer was a better experience than the actual MMO.  Hopefully I am wrong

     

    image

  • bleyzwunbleyzwun West Orange, NJPosts: 1,100Member Common
    Originally posted by Draemos

    It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

     

    What else exactly does it need?  A  full set of multi sided die and a fat guy with cystic acne narrating the dungeon while you play?

    It couldn't hurt!

  • SpectralHunterSpectralHunter So CalPosts: 386Member Uncommon

    My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

    But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    Neverwinter is not only the name of the city that was set in BioWare's Neverwinter Nights, but is also the name of a major city that lies south of the Great Spine of the World. 

    I believe most of the Forgotten Realms settings will focus on Neverwinter(there has been a plethora of books and developments based in Neverwinter), plus this seems to be one of the most popular cities thanks to Salvatore and BioWare.

    [quote] This Game is based off of the D&D Fourth Edition Ruleset. A basic primer to how the Fourth Edition Tabletop system works can be found on this link. [/quote]

    Keep in mind this is an MMO, so some things are not going to be 100% true to the ruleset. Just like they are not in DDO.

     

  • neosapienceneosapience Reno, NVPosts: 164Member
    What does a twitch-based action game have in common with a PnP RPG? Not much, in my opinion. I don't care what universe a video game is set in, or what 'rule set' it uses. If you can't play a rogue paladin who's on a quest to dethrone the corrupt leader of his order, you're not playing an RPG.

    Like most games, Neverwinter will try to keep you occupied with big red circles and flashing numbers. Your ability to influence the world will be nonexistent. You will grind encounters and click on NPCs, you will mash buttons and you will gain levels. Eventually you'll realize that it's just a typical MMORPG, because game developers are trying to make money, not take huge risks.
  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Personally, I would have much preferred  the setting be in Waterdeep, Cormanthor or Baldur's Gate or even better, Silverymoon.  I also would have preferred a more traditional sandpark style MMO rather than this arcade monstrosity it has become.

    image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Personally, I would have much preferred  the setting be in Waterdeep, Cormanthor or Baldur's Gate or even better, Silverymoon.  I also would have preferred a more traditional sandpark style MMO rather than this arcade monstrosity it has become.

    Would have really enjoyed Silverymoon and hope we can see this place in game at some point.

     

     

    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    It doesn't, Neverwinter is just the name of a city in Fearun. This isn't NWN 3 people just see "Neverwinter" and jump to that conclusion. 

    It's DND but based on 4e and has the approval of WOTC so..

     

    Also it's "Neverwinter" Online because it's linked to RA Salvatore "Neverwinter saga" though im sure marketing fully expected fans to get hyped and link this game to previous NWN games.

     

    Interesting... how closely does it follow 4E? I never played that version of D&D, but interested nonetheless.

    It's "loosely based" on 4E so don't expect it to be an exact translation.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon

    Geez OP great question.

     

     

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Tarzana, CAPosts: 1,220Member

    http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Campaign-Setting-Dungeons-Supplement/dp/0786958146

    If you want the direct connection, here you go. This is the setting, and version of that setting Cryptic's Neverwinter utilizes.

    Also, the game shares mechanics but is an action RPG adaptation of 4th edition. From what I've seen, it has the base classes, races, and general mechanics of the powers. It is however not turn based, grid based combat.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Draemos

    It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

    What else exactly does it need?  

     

    Well, I haver actually played and enjoyed different D&D games that use the D&D ruleset (whatever it was at the time) to greater or lesser effect... Have you not?

    Does this game actually have *any* D&D under it's thin skin of names and lore?

     I've never played a videogame that used a strict D&D ruleset that's combat engine wasn't boring and relied heavily upon it's RPG elements to keep people interested.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by neosapience

    Like most games, Neverwinter will try to keep you occupied with big red circles and flashing numbers. Your ability to influence the world will be nonexistent. You will grind encounters and click on NPCs, you will mash buttons and you will gain levels. Eventually you'll realize that it's just a typical MMORPG, because game developers are trying to make money, not take huge risks.

    This is what we call "gameplay" in the videogame world.  It's the thing that makes board games and videogames different.  We also use monitors, mice, and keyboards instead of dice, boards, and cards.  It's a stretch, but its worked out pretty well so far.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Honest question with no malice.

    What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

    Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

    If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

     

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

    Becasue Wizards of the Coast gave them rights.

     

     

    It's as simple as that and its quite a silly question to ask.  You think Cyrptic stole the rights or something?

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Honest question with no malice.

    What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

    Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

    If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

     

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

    Honest question with no malice.

     

    Why are you looking forward to playing ArcheAge so much?  To me it looks like a horrible game with Eastern Art, bland old and out dated tab targetting combat.  Why is sandbox features the only systems that are allowed to propagate the MMO genre?  To me it features boring and grindy gameplay elements that shouldn't even be called gameplay.  I mean if I want to mine, farm or build something I do it in real life where it has meaning but to do it in a game seems asanine to me.

     

    To me AA is not an honest way to do business because it promotes nothing fun and everything boring, I see it as a pretty cynical way to do business.

     

    As a side question would you be excited for ArcheAge if it was setup as a linear WoW clone with none of the sandbox elements?  WOuld the game itself holdup to what you are looking for?  Would you care about it anymore then a random P2W asian title?  Try to answer honestly if you can.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    You see my questions probobly sound silly to you jsut as much as your questions sound silly to me.  The truth of the matter is people like different things and questioning peoples wishes and desires are an idiotic thing to do IMO.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Draemos

    It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

    What else exactly does it need?  

     

    Well, I haver actually played and enjoyed different D&D games that use the D&D ruleset (whatever it was at the time) to greater or lesser effect... Have you not?

    Does this game actually have *any* D&D under it's thin skin of names and lore?

    Thats pretty much all it needs.

     

    WoW is nothing like Warcraft 3 but yet it is everymuch a warcraft game because its based on the lore and settings of the RTS game.  One not need be a clone to be a successor to it!

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,639Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpectralHunter

    My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

    But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

     

    Obvious snarky remarks aside...

    Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

    To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

     

    Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

  • ThillianThillian BratislavaPosts: 3,143Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by SpectralHunter

    My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

    But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

     

    Obvious snarky remarks aside...

    Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

    To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

     

    Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

    Neverwinter Online was first graphic MMORPG released in 1991 by SSI.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(MMORPG)

    It was Bioware who kinda ruined the "original vision" of the first Neverwinter game. Are you really sure that Cryptic is promoting their game to be the direct successor to Bioware's NWN or the original SSI one?

    REALITY CHECK

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by SpectralHunter

    My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

    But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

     

    Obvious snarky remarks aside...

    Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

    To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

     

    Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

    I'm thinking Wizards of the Coast, those who own the D&D IP, make the call on what the game is titled.  Since it's the most popular name of the Forgotten Realms video games it doesn't surprise me that they are using the same name to drive sales.  It's not cynical, it's called marketing.  That being said, if the game does well, I can totally see expansion packs expanding the game world and bringing us the other not so known locations such as Waterdeep, Silver Moon, and Menzoberannzan.

    So, personally I see no "disengenious" action from Cryptic at all, seeing as they aren't alone in this boat and have to go through the proper channels to even use the IP.  I'm thinking they pitched the Foundry to Wizards of the Coast, and WotC liked that they are keeping player made content in relation to their IP so they gave the green light.  That's just a guess on my part, though.

    Can't wait to play the game and I've played the pen and paper version and the old Neverwinter Nights.  I just love the Forgotten Realms setting and want a viable if not awesome game to play within those realms.

    image
  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    As someone who played both NWN 1 and 2 and made modules, coded, scripted and built many adventures the foundry looks awesome. As someone who played a lot of AD&D the IP and setting/world are great. Watching the trickster rouge and control wizard class videos was painful. Watching the founders pack video made me never want to touch this.

    How to post links.

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  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,639Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Honest question with no malice.

    What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

    Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

    If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

     

    As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

    Honest question with no malice.

     Yes... and?

    Why are you looking forward to playing ArcheAge so much?  To me it looks like a horrible game with Eastern Art, bland old and out dated tab targetting combat. 

     That's cool, I can respect your personal tastes. I am not offended by them.

    Why is sandbox features the only systems that are allowed to propagate the MMO genre?  To me it features boring and grindy gameplay elements that shouldn't even be called gameplay.  I mean if I want to mine, farm or build something I do it in real life where it has meaning but to do it in a game seems asanine to me.

    Like I say, that's cool.

    But, to be fair, I didn't give any personal opinions about NW's systems or how boring the game looks.

    To me AA is not an honest way to do business because it promotes nothing fun and everything boring, I see it as a pretty cynical way to do business.

     Well, boring (to you) isn't the same as 'dishonest' is it?

    You seem to be reaching for something here...

    As a side question would you be excited for ArcheAge if it was setup as a linear WoW clone with none of the sandbox elements?  WOuld the game itself holdup to what you are looking for?  Would you care about it anymore then a random P2W asian title?  Try to answer honestly if you can.

    I agree AA has strong WoW elements, and I agree a lot of it's levelling path looks extremely linear... I don't know why you assume that dosen't appeal to me.

    The game isn't selling itself on someone else's work as far as I can see... it dosen't have a popular IP that it is exploiting to fool the gullible into thinking it is part of some unbroken line.

    I also have no idea why you think I am *so* excited for AA... Is it because I am following it on my fav games list? If so, you have leapt to the wrong conclusions. I actually am pretty neutral about the game and am just following it out of curiosity right now.

    In the end, AA *is* a random Asian title (is it P2W? Or is that just a random attempt to defame it?), but it is a random Asian title that is so far elevating itslef above the herd by it's own merits.

    You see my questions probobly sound silly to you jsut as much as your questions sound silly to me. 

    No, my questions are legitimate... yours are a reaching effort to try and use AA to prove a failed point.

    Instead of throwing up all this white noise and avoiding actually engaging in the questions asked, maybe actually add something worthwhile? Just a thought.

    The truth of the matter is people like different things and questioning peoples wishes and desires are an idiotic thing to do IMO.

    This has nothing to do with people liking different things... You seem to be arguing and point that no one else is talking about. This is me asking, quite clearly, what has this actually got to do with NWN or D&D?

    The answer seems to be, after all is said and done, not a lot.

    So I ask, is this an honest way to do business? Trading on unrelated successful IPs I mean?

     

  • fs23otmfs23otm Winter Haven, FLPosts: 293Member Uncommon

    Baldur's Gate was just a FR skin on a Age old gameplay of topdown turn based genre.

    WoW was just a skin of Warcraft on an MMO body. 

     

    The truth is people who put games down without playing them are idiots. Their opinions mean nothing. These are the same people who judge books by there covers. 

    Neverwinter has nothing to do with the other Neverwinter Nights games. It is the most popular area in FR because of Salvatore books.

    TESO is shaping up to be a great game. I am seeing people complain that it is not true to TES, but it is. You could only explore small kingdoms in the TES games, no different then you can in ESO.

  • Silverthorn8Silverthorn8 LondonPosts: 489Member Uncommon

    It's actually all the nerdy stuff, like dice rolls and statistical data that were prevalent in the black isle/bioware games that let you know you was playing a d&d game.

    I'll wager this is missing in the forthcoming title.

    Nothing better than seeing why you failed to spot a trap or disarm one. If this sort of stuff is in then I'll swallow these words :)

    One of the things I loved about nwn was when you got a new weapon, and it had for example, an acid or lightning damage effect was watching the numbers in green or blue show in the bottom right screen area. I bet all you'll see in neverwinter is the ubiquitous floating combat text/numbers as seen in most modern mmo/arpg's.

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