I prefer new experiences instead of repeating the same over and over.
You will be glad to know then they are basing the entire 3 faction PvP around a game that was released last decade, was ALMOST the most successful game of it's time, lost subs continually and if you want to play still limps on. And from that design descision you are lockedinto a faction and locked out of 60% of the world.
No you get a pve world to explore on your first character, then if you make a 2nd or 3rd character you get an entirely different world to explore. At least thats how it works
At least that's how It works in daoc. It's not the same thing as taking a game like wow/rift/tsw/swtor/aoc/eq2/coh and dividing the world in 3. Well to be fair games like wow and eq2 have alternate leveling zones, but if you take a linear zone game like tsw or swtor or vanilla rift where you don't have alternative leveling areas, with TESO you are getting 3 times the pve content.
As for "not possible" tell me which parts of it are not possible and I bet I can come up with a working solution.
Warcraft was RTS game before Blizzard turned it World of Warcraft and basicly created goose that lays golden eggs. In fact when people talk Warcraft they mostly mean WoW nowdays not the RTS games.
People who claim that Skyrim could be just turned to MMO should seriously spend bit more thinking concepts like lag, balance, questing with 100 people and so on.
Your information is so lacking I feel your opinion is not well developed enough for you to have posted this topic. Let me provide you with a link to a FAQ about the development with full annotations from which you can verify the information stated in the FAQ.
One you look at this you might want to re-evaluate your postition. The devs have said from the very beginning they do not want an MMORPG TES game but a TES game you can play with your friends.
I won't deny that my knowledge of ESO as a whole is lacking, however, can you deny any of the points I've made. Because, if what I have stated is true, which afaik it is, then my analysis is true.
That's kind of the point. Before I got past the first couple of your "points" I understood that your information was sorely lacking.
Is ESO a TES game in spirit? Yes. Why is it different? It's being adapted for a MMORPG setting.
Originally posted by ShakyMo No you get a pve world to explore on your first character, then if you make a 2nd or 3rd character you get an entirely different world to explore. At least thats how it works
Think you mean region....the world of Tamriel includes all the regions that TESO contains. Any single character can only explore 40% of the world. So you can explore a part of the world, but never all of it on a single character. Sort of like the F2P concept in some games where you have to pay to get the rest of the game, only in TESO you have to level up an entirely different character to the the next 30% of the world...and then another character the see the remaining 30%.
I wish you would stop with the 3 games in 1 crap. it isn't 3 games in 1, you are just restricted to playing 1/3 of the game on each character. Big difference (and this is from an altaholic so while I love alts the way it is done in TESO is retarded. If that is how it was done in DAOC then that was retarded too (can't remember) and probably why I left the game and why it didn't really do well).
Why is it different? It's being adapted for a MMORPG setting.
PC's games are 'adapted' to accomodate the Playstation or Xbox all the time....they suck. They don't have to suck. They suck because people are lazy and are trying to make a quick buck. Fools and money and all that.
As for "not possible" tell me which parts of it are not possible and I bet I can come up with a working solution.
so the game is taking place in a completely different world/backstory setting to TES ? Are all Warcraft games the same ? Are all Forgotten Realms games the same ?
HELL NO !!! But they are based in the same world and that's what counts. You cannot make an RTS the same as an RPG even if it is from the same backstory. There are rules and limitations to each genre that don't allow for this.
Get it into your head. In TES, there's exactly ONE hero. The world is made around him. Maybe it is NOT that obvious from the start, but the story and everything wraps around that one hero. This is not possible in MMORPG. Do you want another SWTOR debacle repeated ?
Oh come on none of you know any amount of zones or world sizes and are pulling numbers out of thin air.
As far as 3 race locked factions, it was fine for DAOC not The Elder Scrolls. It's so lame seeing that three heads eating each other symbol. Guess what they could have just let you pick any race and had player run factions.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Why is it different? It's being adapted for a MMORPG setting.
PC's games are 'adapted' to accomodate the Playstation or Xbox all the time....they suck. They don't have to suck. They suck because people are lazy and are trying to make a quick buck. Fools and money and all that.
omg ... such ignorance. have a look what is the primary difference between consoles and PCs and then have a look what's different between game genres .... you cannot equate those, not even draw parallels ...
Get it into your head. In TES, there's exactly ONE hero. The world is made around him. Maybe it is NOT that obvious from the start, but the story and everything wraps around that one hero. This is not possible in MMORPG. Do you want another SWTOR debacle repeated ?
TESO has a personal story too....your point is?
Ever wondered why many people, after finishing a TES game go back and do not do the main story but just play the game and do side quests? If not then perhaps you should think why. And then perhaps explain what is Sooooo difficult to transpose into an MMO.
As for "not possible" tell me which parts of it are not possible and I bet I can come up with a working solution.
so the game is taking place in a completely different world/backstory setting to TES ? Are all Warcraft games the same ? Are all Forgotten Realms games the same ?
HELL NO !!! But they are based in the same world and that's what counts. You cannot make an RTS the same as an RPG even if it is from the same backstory. There are rules and limitations to each genre that don't allow for this.
Get it into your head. In TES, there's exactly ONE hero. The world is made around him. Maybe it is NOT that obvious from the start, but the story and everything wraps around that one hero. This is not possible in MMORPG. Do you want another SWTOR debacle repeated ?
I don't think anyone is asking to be the hero or for the game to make them feel special. All we're asking for is for ESO to be true to TES roots. Meaning a classless system, open world, no racial limited factions, TES styled questing, TES style combat, TES races, and freedom.
Instead we get ESO, which has classes, zoned off world with those zones being instanced, forced into 1 of 3 factions, can't explore any regions outside those factions, a mesh of GW2 and WoW styled questing, a mix of TES and GW2 combat with a soft tab target locking system, the changing of how elves look, no Imperial race, and as far as freedom goes, we don't know. However, we can speculate on the freedom portion based off of the other changes being made to the franchise and say you probably won't have near the freedom in ESO than you do in TES games.
As for peoples comments on creating the same IP across different gaming genres, when an IP is traditionally a RTS, yet you want to get into the mmoRPG genre, you need to adapt the RTS game into a RPG. However, when adapting a RPG to a MMORPG, not much needs to change, since the only differences between the two genres is that one is single player, allows you to save your progress or load a pre-existing save, and the game is tailored around you being the hero, whereas the other is multiplayer and has a persistant world.
All the features and mechanics in TES games CAN be put into a MMORPG and sell just fine. ESO devs have just decided to play it safe and copy features from GW2, WoW, and DAoC and just add some TES flavoring so they can give it the ESO name.
Mael You can put your fingers in your ears and go trallalalala all you like.
But daoc DID have more than 3 times the pve content of all these recent wow clone games like vanilla rift, tsw, swtor etc..
You are incorrect in the.ling its like taking a traditional wow style mmo and dividing the world in 3.
If they had gone with a tsw style design of let's all be chums in pve, but have some pvp for fun when not grinding dungeons in a tiny little map.
They would not need to include the whole of tamriel, they would have enough leveling content and dungeons from just having say skyrim, Morrowind and high rock in game.
Your information is so lacking I feel your opinion is not well developed enough for you to have posted this topic. Let me provide you with a link to a FAQ about the development with full annotations from which you can verify the information stated in the FAQ.
One you look at this you might want to re-evaluate your postition. The devs have said from the very beginning they do not want an MMORPG TES game but a TES game you can play with your friends.
I won't deny that my knowledge of ESO as a whole is lacking, however, can you deny any of the points I've made. Because, if what I have stated is true, which afaik it is, then my analysis is true.
I think the error here is in wanting the TES games to be unchangeable when entering a new genre, MMORPGs. That's very unrealistic. A lot of things will obviously change while keeping to the lore, aesthetics and various other aspects that make up the TES IP. Especially combat and how the world is built, now that other players are being put into place as well as PVP. I always found TES games to be full of style and possibility but I always stop playing 2 weeks later due to sheer boredom of playing by myself. This game is the answer for players like me. If they change some things, so be it.
About the non exploration issue, that's a bunch of crap. I love alts and this game will make rolling 3 characters feel fresh and new and will eventually let me see all the game has to offer, especially with exploration. Just because I can't do it with one character, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
People who complain about not being to travel the entire world with one character are silly. You couldn't travel the entire world in Skyrim, and people herald that as the best TES game ever.
The truth is people are complaining just to complain. They think their opinions are the only correct opinions. The truth is the Devs opinions are the only ones that matter.
If ESO wen't by the book on a TES game it would not live long. GET over it.
I won't go into to much detail on it.
But how many of you actually were a BAD guy in TES?
You would then know that as a Bad guy you could Steal/Murder people in town and if done right get away with it.
But how would that fit in a MMO that had no locked factions no where was Safe(Theres guards but they are next to Useless) and PvP Enabled everywhere Oh and your corpse can be Picked clean of all items? I don't think that would Rollover to well specially if their is only 1 server. But all of those Features are in TES games.
People would have no Idea how to start or do anything in such a game. New Players would constantly be Penalized just for joining into the game late. Not to Mention you'd have to deal with Evil Guilds.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Mael You can put your fingers in your ears and go trallalalala all you like.
But daoc DID have more than 3 times the pve content of all these recent wow clone games like vanilla rift, tsw, swtor etc..
You are incorrect in the.ling its like taking a traditional wow style mmo and dividing the world in 3.
If they had gone with a tsw style design of let's all be chums in pve, but have some pvp for fun when not grinding dungeons in a tiny little map.
They would not need to include the whole of tamriel, they would have enough leveling content and dungeons from just having say skyrim, Morrowind and high rock in game.
Also you didn't play daoc, I don't believe you.
Believe me or no, I did play it. I had about 4 or 5 characters (I love making alts) but the game was unmemorable I can't even remember a single aspect of any of them. I think I only got to about level 20 when I got bored and moved on.
As for content. You only got to see 3 times the content if you created 3 characters. For most people that is wasted content. If you only have 1 character then 2/3rds of the quests that the game has are blocked off from you. It might as well never have been created. Think Schrödinger's cat, If you never create a character of another faction, do the quests actually exist? It is the upmost in gated content. In fact it is beyond gated content as you canoot walk thorugh to the content wih a character at all but would have to totally reroll.
Elocke Not only that if you want to play every quest and see everything in any tes game, you have to roll multiple characters. You need at least 2 in skyrim and oblivion (although oblivions weird leveling system means you really need more), you need 3 in Morrowind.
If ESO wen't by the book on a TES game it would not live long. GET over it.
I won't go into to much detail on it.
But how many of you actually were a BAD guy in TES?
You would then know that as a Bad guy you could Steal/Murder people in town and if done right get away with it.
But how would that fit in a MMO that had no locked factions no where was Safe(Theres guards but they are next to Useless) and PvP Enabled everywhere Oh and your corpse can be Picked clean of all items? I don't think that would Rollover to well specially if their is only 1 server. But all of those Features are in TES games.
People would have no Idea how to start or do anything in such a game. New Players would constantly be Penalized just for joining into the game late. Not to Mention you'd have to deal with Evil Guilds.
A few questions.
Why would a player be able to steal/murder other players anywhere other then the cetral PvP hub?
Why are there no safe area's?
Why are guards useless?
Why is PvP enabled everywhere?
Why can a characters corpse be picked clean?
And when have you EVER been able to do ANY of those things to another player in a TES game?
Mael But.... If daoc just let everyone pve together, they wouldn't have bothered making 3 realms, 1 realm would have supplied enough content, so the game would have had a smaller world like rift or tsw or whatever. Why make duplicate dungeon and leveling content if you can save money by not making it.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Elocke Not only that if you want to play every quest and see everything in any tes game, you have to roll multiple characters. You need at least 2 in skyrim and oblivion (although oblivions weird leveling system means you really need more), you need 3 in Morrowind.
But whichever character you had, you were not blocked from going anywhere. Some places were dangerous if you were a member of a faction but if you wanted to be a stormcloak you could still go to Solitude if you wanted. You could sneak in unseen or fight your way in if you were able. Having differning storylines (and that is what they are, differing storylines not hardcoded restrictions on where you can do and what you can do) has never changed the way you could play.
Comments
You will be glad to know then they are basing the entire 3 faction PvP around a game that was released last decade, was ALMOST the most successful game of it's time, lost subs continually and if you want to play still limps on. And from that design descision you are lockedinto a faction and locked out of 60% of the world.
Lots of positives....
Warcraft was RTS game before Blizzard turned it World of Warcraft and basicly created goose that lays golden eggs. In fact when people talk Warcraft they mostly mean WoW nowdays not the RTS games.
People who claim that Skyrim could be just turned to MMO should seriously spend bit more thinking concepts like lag, balance, questing with 100 people and so on.
That's kind of the point. Before I got past the first couple of your "points" I understood that your information was sorely lacking.
Is ESO a TES game in spirit? Yes. Why is it different? It's being adapted for a MMORPG setting.
I know it's arrogant, but ..
/thread
Think you mean region....the world of Tamriel includes all the regions that TESO contains. Any single character can only explore 40% of the world. So you can explore a part of the world, but never all of it on a single character. Sort of like the F2P concept in some games where you have to pay to get the rest of the game, only in TESO you have to level up an entirely different character to the the next 30% of the world...and then another character the see the remaining 30%.
I wish you would stop with the 3 games in 1 crap. it isn't 3 games in 1, you are just restricted to playing 1/3 of the game on each character. Big difference (and this is from an altaholic so while I love alts the way it is done in TESO is retarded. If that is how it was done in DAOC then that was retarded too (can't remember) and probably why I left the game and why it didn't really do well).
PC's games are 'adapted' to accomodate the Playstation or Xbox all the time....they suck. They don't have to suck. They suck because people are lazy and are trying to make a quick buck. Fools and money and all that.
so the game is taking place in a completely different world/backstory setting to TES ? Are all Warcraft games the same ? Are all Forgotten Realms games the same ?
HELL NO !!! But they are based in the same world and that's what counts. You cannot make an RTS the same as an RPG even if it is from the same backstory. There are rules and limitations to each genre that don't allow for this.
Get it into your head. In TES, there's exactly ONE hero. The world is made around him. Maybe it is NOT that obvious from the start, but the story and everything wraps around that one hero. This is not possible in MMORPG. Do you want another SWTOR debacle repeated ?
Oh come on none of you know any amount of zones or world sizes and are pulling numbers out of thin air.
As far as 3 race locked factions, it was fine for DAOC not The Elder Scrolls. It's so lame seeing that three heads eating each other symbol. Guess what they could have just let you pick any race and had player run factions.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/omg ... such ignorance. have a look what is the primary difference between consoles and PCs and then have a look what's different between game genres .... you cannot equate those, not even draw parallels ...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/TESO has a personal story too....your point is?
Ever wondered why many people, after finishing a TES game go back and do not do the main story but just play the game and do side quests? If not then perhaps you should think why. And then perhaps explain what is Sooooo difficult to transpose into an MMO.
I don't think anyone is asking to be the hero or for the game to make them feel special. All we're asking for is for ESO to be true to TES roots. Meaning a classless system, open world, no racial limited factions, TES styled questing, TES style combat, TES races, and freedom.
Instead we get ESO, which has classes, zoned off world with those zones being instanced, forced into 1 of 3 factions, can't explore any regions outside those factions, a mesh of GW2 and WoW styled questing, a mix of TES and GW2 combat with a soft tab target locking system, the changing of how elves look, no Imperial race, and as far as freedom goes, we don't know. However, we can speculate on the freedom portion based off of the other changes being made to the franchise and say you probably won't have near the freedom in ESO than you do in TES games.
As for peoples comments on creating the same IP across different gaming genres, when an IP is traditionally a RTS, yet you want to get into the mmoRPG genre, you need to adapt the RTS game into a RPG. However, when adapting a RPG to a MMORPG, not much needs to change, since the only differences between the two genres is that one is single player, allows you to save your progress or load a pre-existing save, and the game is tailored around you being the hero, whereas the other is multiplayer and has a persistant world.
All the features and mechanics in TES games CAN be put into a MMORPG and sell just fine. ESO devs have just decided to play it safe and copy features from GW2, WoW, and DAoC and just add some TES flavoring so they can give it the ESO name.
You can put your fingers in your ears and go trallalalala all you like.
But daoc DID have more than 3 times the pve content of all these recent wow clone games like vanilla rift, tsw, swtor etc..
You are incorrect in the.ling its like taking a traditional wow style mmo and dividing the world in 3.
If they had gone with a tsw style design of let's all be chums in pve, but have some pvp for fun when not grinding dungeons in a tiny little map.
They would not need to include the whole of tamriel, they would have enough leveling content and dungeons from just having say skyrim, Morrowind and high rock in game.
Also you didn't play daoc, I don't believe you.
Tsw has 9 dungeons
Daoc has FOURTY ONE
I think the error here is in wanting the TES games to be unchangeable when entering a new genre, MMORPGs. That's very unrealistic. A lot of things will obviously change while keeping to the lore, aesthetics and various other aspects that make up the TES IP. Especially combat and how the world is built, now that other players are being put into place as well as PVP. I always found TES games to be full of style and possibility but I always stop playing 2 weeks later due to sheer boredom of playing by myself. This game is the answer for players like me. If they change some things, so be it.
About the non exploration issue, that's a bunch of crap. I love alts and this game will make rolling 3 characters feel fresh and new and will eventually let me see all the game has to offer, especially with exploration. Just because I can't do it with one character, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
People who complain about not being to travel the entire world with one character are silly. You couldn't travel the entire world in Skyrim, and people herald that as the best TES game ever.
The truth is people are complaining just to complain. They think their opinions are the only correct opinions. The truth is the Devs opinions are the only ones that matter.
If ESO wen't by the book on a TES game it would not live long. GET over it.
I won't go into to much detail on it.
But how many of you actually were a BAD guy in TES?
You would then know that as a Bad guy you could Steal/Murder people in town and if done right get away with it.
But how would that fit in a MMO that had no locked factions no where was Safe(Theres guards but they are next to Useless) and PvP Enabled everywhere Oh and your corpse can be Picked clean of all items? I don't think that would Rollover to well specially if their is only 1 server. But all of those Features are in TES games.
People would have no Idea how to start or do anything in such a game. New Players would constantly be Penalized just for joining into the game late. Not to Mention you'd have to deal with Evil Guilds.
Believe me or no, I did play it. I had about 4 or 5 characters (I love making alts) but the game was unmemorable I can't even remember a single aspect of any of them. I think I only got to about level 20 when I got bored and moved on.
As for content. You only got to see 3 times the content if you created 3 characters. For most people that is wasted content. If you only have 1 character then 2/3rds of the quests that the game has are blocked off from you. It might as well never have been created. Think Schrödinger's cat, If you never create a character of another faction, do the quests actually exist? It is the upmost in gated content. In fact it is beyond gated content as you canoot walk thorugh to the content wih a character at all but would have to totally reroll.
Not only that if you want to play every quest and see everything in any tes game, you have to roll multiple characters. You need at least 2 in skyrim and oblivion (although oblivions weird leveling system means you really need more), you need 3 in Morrowind.
A few questions.
Why would a player be able to steal/murder other players anywhere other then the cetral PvP hub?
Why are there no safe area's?
Why are guards useless?
Why is PvP enabled everywhere?
Why can a characters corpse be picked clean?
And when have you EVER been able to do ANY of those things to another player in a TES game?
But....
If daoc just let everyone pve together, they wouldn't have bothered making 3 realms, 1 realm would have supplied enough content, so the game would have had a smaller world like rift or tsw or whatever. Why make duplicate dungeon and leveling content if you can save money by not making it.
But whichever character you had, you were not blocked from going anywhere. Some places were dangerous if you were a member of a faction but if you wanted to be a stormcloak you could still go to Solitude if you wanted. You could sneak in unseen or fight your way in if you were able. Having differning storylines (and that is what they are, differing storylines not hardcoded restrictions on where you can do and what you can do) has never changed the way you could play.
Could you go to Daggerfall in Skyrim?
Or Cyrodiil in Morrowind?
In ESO you can be in Skyrim and go to Morrowind and the Black Marshes and Cyrodiil.... that is like four TES games worth of material.
It is the same with the other factions. People need to relax.