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User rating down to 6.6 is a bit harsh don't you think ?

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Comments

  • sudosudo Tel-AvivPosts: 697Member Uncommon
    6.6 sounds just about right to me.

    "Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
    Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
    Hans Margolius

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    I don't think that wanting animal mounts should be a stoning offense.

    The damn speeders are a lazy lore tweaked design out.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon

    All ratings are down because of Path of Exile. The ratings are relative to other games and, since PoE is the new top game, it "stole" some points from other games.

    It's a weird system and I'm still not entirely sure why MMORPG uses it.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,309Member Uncommon

    Most user reviews on all websites in general are pointless, because they gravitate toward extremes.

    In the case of this site, where extreme opinions are even more common, a combined score is less than useless.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    In green, it is clear you want SWG2 but ToR never advertized itself as being SWG2. ToR is fine as an expanded-upon KoToR : it is KoToR 3 with MMORPG elements thrown in and in that sense ToR is exactly what EA advertized it would be. I am sorry you feel that it is disappointing, but what you are advocating is basically a total overhaul of everything so essentially a game that ToR is not.

    I want EA to take their current game and expand on it, that is what I am hoping for. So no, even though I love player cities, I don't want to see that in ToR because I think it would be very difficult to implement, but expanding on ships and things of that sort would be cool. Expanding on space combat but using the current system is more realistic than adding JTL into the game. Continuing storylines, adding more chapters, expanding on the legacy system, adding more planets of all levels, etc.

    I want SWG2 too, but in a different game world where the devs have more freedom of development and aren't limited by IP stuff.

    All games are buggy.

    No game will ever please everyone, and I agree that they should focus on their strengths rather than try to emulate SWG and go out of business due to developing massive systems while the game dies due to lack of new content.

    It would be awesome if they could add some of that stuff in the future, something they are working on on the side, but I don't see it happening...

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Well, what do you expect the score to be? 

    - Graphics are obviously worse than what was possible 2009, if you take a look at AoC for example, it kicks SWTOR out of the water

    Graphics aren't stellar I will give you that, but I like the art direction. Alderande is a beautiful planet and Nar Shaada is really well done with its gaudy appearance, wide open vistas where you can see vehicles speeding through the skies, towering sky scrapers on top of other towering sky scrapers, and funny alien advertizements everywhere. I could expand on other planets too, but I don't want to here.

    Yeah, the art direction is certainly "interesting" although they tried to be somehow like the old movie trilogy and put a little twist on the styles, but in my taste not enough. Sith Empire looks like the (Republic) Empire 3000 years in the future! What the hell?  "Republic" looks like the "Rebels" 3000 years in the future? They did not have enough balls to go: "Ok, how could the Star Wars universe and factions REALLY look like, 3000 years ago?", let´s create something completely unique, archaic, different, just with a hint on how the future will look like. So overall, the art direction seems scared and not "brave" enough

    - Game has a heavy focus on ALTs, but there are no alternative leveling planets, you need to go through the planets again in same order

    Just play two alts, one on Empire side and one on Rebel side. Don't need to sub for that and you will get the important part of the game for the most part.

    I did, but that didn´t make the game more diverse either. Only have one char, the other one is stuck somewhere between 20-30

     

    - most obvious heavy instancing ever seen, "story areas"

    Some of the important quests are instanced, that is true, but the other option would have been phasing to advance the story and that has its own set of problems. I guess devs should learn from WoW and ToR about telling stories in the future. To be honest, this isn't really that different from GW2's way of telling stories, but in that game rather than have green zones that you can go into and red zones you can't, you just have a small green blob appear where you zone into your personal instance. If ToR had done that, would you feel better about it ? It is in fact the same feature though. Do you dislike GW2 too ?

    Yes, I dislike GW2, in my opinion SWTOR and GW2 are the worst MMOs I´ve ever played

    - space combat is a joke compared to SWG

    - no dynamic NPCs

    What do you mean by dynamic NPCs ?

    NPCs which have some sort of activity like populating cities, look around, the NPCs are stuck in 5 second time loops since release, almost no one moves, they are time frozen, like the troopers shooting from behind barriers forever on every planet

    - no housing features

    It might take them some time to get this one out. I don't see why they can't expand on player ships or something and add a housing feature in the future.

    - no guild cities/player cities

    - no animal mounts, pets do nothing

    - mounts are wheelchair speed "speeders", zero physics, zero Star Wars sense of speed

    This in my view is not a bad thing even though I find that SWG had slow mounts too. I don't want to speed through the game. You have less chance of interesting encounters such as that Republic elite droid that you didn't see by the side of the road that starts shooting you. If you can just rush past it with 0 danger to you is that really an interesting game ?

    Speeders have no feeling of gravity, don´t feel dynamic, no g-forces, no acceleration, no sense of speed, it´s just a faster walk with a speeder mount animation. Completely lame, for Star Wars standards.

    - companions often bugged

    Have not had this often. Only bug I have noticed is companions not following after picking up mats from a node. Just move back to the companion and they follow. Otherwise, they seem to be fine.

    - loading times are abysmal

    Depends on the computer. On my laptop they are admittedly bad, but I have seen ToR load up straight away on other rigs.

    SSD and 8-core Xeon, every other MMO I play loads zones in about 5-10 seconds. SWTOR up to 30 seconds or more.

    - planets are designed like corridors, lots of exhaustion zones and static feeling, no day/night change

    Agree for day and night. However, the planets open up a lot after Tatooine.

    - heavy cash shop focus, gambling boxes and 18$ mounts

    Ignore if if you don't like it. That is what I do.

    - no minigames, no pazaak, no swoop racing

    Space combat is not a minigame ? I would like to see pazaak and swoop racing and other stuff added for sure.

    - server merges, name losses, frustration

    Can't comment since I had no issues.

     

    6.6 is very, very friendly for SWTOR.

    On Metacritic the user rating is 5.7 which seems more accurate

    In green, it is clear you want SWG2 but ToR never advertized itself as being SWG2.

    SWG2 is the synonym for a great Star Wars MMO we never got, if adding/fixing the problems mentioned above makes SWTOR SWG2, then so be it, yes I want SWG2

    ToR is fine as an expanded-upon KoToR : it is KoToR 3 with MMORPG elements thrown in and in that sense ToR is exactly what EA advertized it would be. I am sorry you feel that it is disappointing, but what you are advocating is basically a total overhaul of everything so essentially a game that ToR is not.

    I want EA to take their current game and expand on it, that is what I am hoping for. So no, even though I love player cities, I don't want to see that in ToR because I think it would be very difficult to implement, but expanding on ships and things of that sort would be cool. Expanding on space combat but using the current system is more realistic than adding JTL into the game. Continuing storylines, adding more chapters, expanding on the legacy system, adding more planets of all levels, etc.

    I want SWG2 too, but in a different game world where the devs have more freedom of development and aren't limited by IP stuff.

    All games are buggy.

     

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  • MuppetierMuppetier SouthamptonPosts: 277Member
    I would not expect to ever see a Sony, EA or Blizzard game in the Top 20 on this site if it is done by user votes.
  • Entris38Entris38 Somewhere, OHPosts: 321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Muppetier
    I would not expect to ever see a Sony, EA or Blizzard game in the Top 20 on this site if it is done by user votes.

    /Agree........

     

    On topic: I believe SWTOR is a 7, maybe 7.5. As many have stated, far to many people on this site have an agenda, everything is a 10 or a 1, a big zero if they could. Gaming companies don't help themselves by making games that casual players(which I am) can max level in a month with limited play time and the always trying to stick the content at end game................what happened to the journey? People would complain about that also. Multiple paths of leveling, larger worlds, slower leveling(but have the content to support it).

     

    Gaming companies have caught on that the console gamer is the biggest gaming consumer now. They can put out games with limited content and we run like idiots to give them are 60 bucks, burn through the content in a month, or most times a week for the hardcore players and then everyone screams.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    yeah, ratings aren't really correct on this site.  People will hype up a game, even if they never played it, or have quit playing it.  Noone ever updates thier reviews unless it's negative (like this game).  WoW has a bad score on here, and it has more people playing it than all the other games on this site combined hehe.

    The thing is though SWTOR is not a decent long term MMO, but it is OK / above average for a few months. You play, you enjoy, you run out of things to do, and then quit. It at least has not had any major game rewrites / overhauls, like what happened to SWG and twice. That made people mad and go 1 star review on Amazon and every where, I even did that with the NGE myself in 2005/2006, and then upped the rating in 2010/2011 when it was doing a lot better and I just accepted it as a new game.

    I bet people will more likely now change their score to SWTOR after seeing this thread. I totally forgot about the user ratings myself until this thread. The game at launch was 8.5, as it all fresh and new and full of hope,  now it is well below 5, as it has not progressed enough as a P2P MMO, and to keep you hooked.  If it was a single player game it would still be 8.5 as they are not designed to keep you playing for years, but if you play them for months then that is pretty good, most games only last a week if put in 2-3 hrs each day

     

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entris38
    Originally posted by Muppetier
    I would not expect to ever see a Sony, EA or Blizzard game in the Top 20 on this site if it is done by user votes.

    /Agree........

     

    On topic: I believe SWTOR is a 7, maybe 7.5. As many have stated, far to many people on this site have an agenda, everything is a 10 or a 1, a big zero if they could. Gaming companies don't help themselves by making games that casual players(which I am) can max level in a month with limited play time and the always trying to stick the content at end game................what happened to the journey? People would complain about that also. Multiple paths of leveling, larger worlds, slower leveling(but have the content to support it).

     

    Gaming companies have caught on that the console gamer is the biggest gaming consumer now. They can put out games with limited content and we run like idiots to give them are 60 bucks, burn through the content in a month, or most times a week for the hardcore players and then everyone screams.

    6.6 for this site is high if you think people have an agenda against the game.

    Other sites have rated it 4: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-26-star-wars-the-old-republic-re-review

     Games TM magazine when mentioned the F2P system their opinion was: AVOID

    it is not just this site, it is everywhere

     

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entris38
    Originally posted by Muppetier
    I would not expect to ever see a Sony, EA or Blizzard game in the Top 20 on this site if it is done by user votes.

    Gaming companies don't help themselves by making games that casual players(which I am) can max level in a month with limited play time and the always trying to stick the content at end game...............

    Not sure if you're including SWTOR in the list of games that you can max level in a month... and how casual that makes you.

    I have a few hours to play every day at most, and I don't see myself hitting 50 in a month... then again, I'm mostly soloing a new alt through the stories, I assume you're doing flashpoints + the matching daily quests on the Fleet?

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by BadOrb
    Just noticed the user review rating went down over night from 7.2 to 6.6 and I feel that's a bit harsh. Considering the game is picking up and there are some great updates / expansion coming up. What do you guys think ? People really do have it in for this game it seems.Cheers ,BadOrb.

    The rating that games have can change when new games are added that can be voted on. So if nobody votes on SWToR, and new games are added and get decent votes, then SWToR's rating goes down. They've explained how it works, but the rating you see isn't an average of all the ratings given by players, it's more of a ranking system, where games that aren't voted on at all gradually move down in the ratings. This makes sense if the idea is that it's more of a popularity system, not a user satisfaction system.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • marsh9799marsh9799 jackson, MSPosts: 100Member

    This is definitely not a harsh rating.  The game was horrendous on release in numerous aspects.  It ran terrible on some machines- high end / low end  nor setings appeared not to be the factor.  It ran as well on my low end machine as it did my high end.  The Warzone PvP was actually pretty decent for a release in my opinion.  Huttball was fairly innovative.  However, Alderan was horrendously bugged and slaughtered FPS.  Open world "PvP" was horrendous.  I've never seen something designed so incompently in a game as Ilum with the exception of Ilum 2.0 where the bafflingly stupid apparently done with no forethought turned it into a spawn camping fest.  Oh... and the loot bags for PvP... worst idea ever.  I had three pieces of PvP gear I could wear and six extra PvP boots...  Complete failure.  The change to tokens was much better, but the continued reliance on random chance was an extremely poor decision by the Devs.

    The instances were OK.  They weren't hard.  Nor were the raids.  They were extremely buggy, but I let that slide.  It took way too little time to get completely geared up and fly through all the instances.  My friends and I were doing PvP exclusively pretty quick because of the lack of PvE content (and a preference for PvP anyway).  There was literally nothing to do once you hit level cap after about a two months. 

    The F2P transition as others have said was terrible.  I did have some fun in PvP and reinstalled the game to check it out.  I lasted two minutes or so once I realized the severity of the limitations.  And I'm one of those players who buys cosmetic shit out of a cash shop.  I'm not going to pay in a F2P game for PvP.  That's just insulting.

    I still do recommend this game to my friends.  It's a good game if you know what you are getting yourself into- which is not a real MMO.  While I think that the terms themepark and sandbox are highly overused and misused, this game is pure themepark.  It's not a real MMO.  It's a single player game with some multiplayer aspects.  If it was labeled as such, I could justify a 8 or even 9 score for the game.  This is KOTOR3 not a Star Wars MMO.  As such, it really deserves an even lower score.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    No the rating is not harsh, it is still a bit high.  I think folks are just figuring out that the content is going to be more and more sparce, and you really cant trust anything ea has to say at this point. 

    I would mark the game a 5.0 rating,  other sites has it as 4.0 and worse. 

     

  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Lynchburg, VAPosts: 294Member Uncommon
    They should be thankful for a 6.6 considering how much of the game was half-assed and thrown together at the last minute.

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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Entris38 

    On topic: I believe SWTOR is a 7, maybe 7.5. As many have stated, far to many people on this site have an agenda, everything is a 10 or a 1, a big zero if they could.

    an agenda? lol.. you sound like a 9/11 conspiracy guy

    Fine, look at Metacritic, there are far more "zeros" than "tens", it could be the other way around if the game would be as great as we hoped. For a Star Wars IP game it is simply a disappointment.

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  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon

    Personally, I feel 6.6 is a generous score. I would have scored it around a 5.0

     

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common

    I also agree that 6.6 is still way too high. At least Final Fantasy had the fortitude to admit they messed up and put the effort to correct and redesign their failure.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    I will add my voice to those who say ratings here are useless and the amount of people here who care about them always astounds me,I personally don't evne look at them anymore.

    Now in my opinion the initial levelling process in SW:TOR  deserves a 8 unfortunately once you reach the end game or start another alt that number starts falling rapidly to a generous 5.

    This game had the easiest and shortest end game content I've encoutnered in PvE,the open world PvP stuff was a joke which they eventually just abandoned and the instanced PvP was fun for awhile but their massive delay in getting ranked PvP up and running hurt that a lot as well as the alck of variety for months after launch.

    Whislt the game had many updates int he months after launch the actual content of those updates didn't amount to very much but hey the were constant and frequent!

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Yeah, the art direction is certainly "interesting" although they tried to be somehow like the old movie trilogy and put a little twist on the styles, but in my taste not enough. Sith Empire looks like the (Republic) Empire 3000 years in the future! What the hell?  "Republic" looks like the "Rebels" 3000 years in the future? They did not have enough balls to go: "Ok, how could the Star Wars universe and factions REALLY look like, 3000 years ago?", let´s create something completely unique, archaic, different, just with a hint on how the future will look like. So overall, the art direction seems scared and not "brave" enough

    I did, but that didn´t make the game more diverse either. Only have one char, the other one is stuck somewhere between 20-30

    Yes, I dislike GW2, in my opinion SWTOR and GW2 are the worst MMOs I´ve ever played

    NPCs which have some sort of activity like populating cities, look around, the NPCs are stuck in 5 second time loops since release, almost no one moves, they are time frozen, like the troopers shooting from behind barriers forever on every planet

    Speeders have no feeling of gravity, don´t feel dynamic, no g-forces, no acceleration, no sense of speed, it´s just a faster walk with a speeder mount animation. Completely lame, for Star Wars standards.

    SSD and 8-core Xeon, every other MMO I play loads zones in about 5-10 seconds. SWTOR up to 30 seconds or more.

    SWG2 is the synonym for a great Star Wars MMO we never got, if adding/fixing the problems mentioned above makes SWTOR SWG2, then so be it, yes I want SWG2

     

    From most of these above replies, it is clear to me that ToR (and incidently GW2) are not your type of MMORPG. That is fine, not every game is likeable by everyone, but to rate ToR down because you expected it to be something that it is not is pretty harsh.

    I have hated a game for what it had to offer, but given a good score because I acknowledge that the features it offered were still done well. For example, I utterly hate Counter Strike. I find it one of the most boring games I have ever tried. However, I would be completely off the mark to say that the game is a turd because what it has to offer is definitely great for those who like that sort of game. So I would rate it at a 9. I know full well what Counter Strike is so I would not ask Counter Strike to become Tabula Rasa, for example.

    It seems like a lot of the hate pointed at ToR is based on some strange idea that it was the improved version of a game made by another studio rather than an expanded version of KoToR.

    I want to see SWG2 in another world and done by a different studio. I want to see similar tools that the devs implemented in SWG in a new sandbox but I want to see them improved 100 fold because there were tons of problems (like the crazy doc buffs). I do not want to see SWG2 in ToR though.

     

     

     

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

    No game will ever please everyone, and I agree that they should focus on their strengths rather than try to emulate SWG and go out of business due to developing massive systems while the game dies due to lack of new content.

    It would be awesome if they could add some of that stuff in the future, something they are working on on the side, but I don't see it happening...

    Yep, this. I overall enjoy this game for what it is. It should be taken for what it is. I wonder if ToR would have such a bad rep if SOE had not closed SWG down. People have got it in their heads that ToR is the successor when it is clear to me that ToR has nothing to do with SWG. They are two completely different games so how can one compare them ?

    As I have said elsewhere, there is one big flaw with ToR's development and that is the reliance on lots of VOs and cutscenes. Any new content, rather than game systems such as housing or player vendors let's say, will be expensive for them to produce, because they have to cutscene and VO every single quest. If they don't, I am sure players will notice and bitch.

    Perhaps adding more game systems would cost less, but tacking on sandbox elements to a heavy themepark like ToR might not work out too well.

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  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    Originally posted by FromHell

     

     

    From most of these above replies, it is clear to me that ToR (and incidently GW2) are not your type of MMORPG. That is fine, not every game is likeable by everyone, but to rate ToR down because you expected it to be something that it is not is pretty harsh.

    I have hated a game for what it had to offer, but given a good score because I acknowledge that the features it offered were still done well. For example, I utterly hate Counter Strike. I find it one of the most boring games I have ever tried. However, I would be completely off the mark to say that the game is a turd because what it has to offer is definitely great for those who like that sort of game. So I would rate it at a 9. I know full well what Counter Strike is so I would not ask Counter Strike to become Tabula Rasa, for example.

    What if I expected it to be better? I knew it was going to be a themepark. I knew it had few classes with WoW-like trees for builds. I knew all of that but what I didn't know was how anemic the systems would be, and how stripped down the whole game would be (static lifeless worlds, quick progression to an empty endgame, meaningless open world PvP). None of this has changed either.

    I don't think the comparison to Kotor is a good one either. SWTOR does not have any kind of meaningful dark side/ lightside progression resulting in changes to abilities. The D20 system is used in Kotor for skills, giving it a more RPG feel. Every breath you take in SWTOR is on rails, and short ones at that.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member

    People on this site hate SWTOR. that's the truth of it.

    Way before it came out people here trashed it because EA were funding it.  Trashed it because Bioware were making it.  Trashed it because it wasn't going to be SWG 2.0.  These same people wish it dead because if that happened mystically the industry would be, 'better', and games they like would get produced,(?!).

    You need to understand that this site has a strong vocal group of people who are, 'old timers'. They think MMOs should indulge their nostalgic fantasies regarding DAOC or SWG.  They hate the way the industry has gone and boy do they have to tell everyone about it.

    SWTOR has plenty of problems which these people barely mention.  It's sheer existence is an insult to them.  If you looking for a more balanced view this isn't the place to find it.

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  • WalterWhiteWalterWhite CardiffPosts: 394Member Uncommon

    I was one of SWTOR's biggest supporters before I bought and played it. I waited years from when it was first a rumour till release with great anticipation only to find it one of the biggest letdowns in all my years of gaming and that is since the days of the Atari 2600.

    SWTOR does not deserve a high score as it has not earned it.

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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MurlockDance

    As I have said elsewhere, there is one big flaw with ToR's development and that is the reliance on lots of VOs and cutscenes. Any new content, rather than game systems such as housing or player vendors let's say, will be expensive for them to produce, because they have to cutscene and VO every single quest. If they don't, I am sure players will notice and bitch.

    Perhaps adding more game systems would cost less, but tacking on sandbox elements to a heavy themepark like ToR might not work out too well.

    Yep, that one's been a concern of mine ever since I first heard of the game... how difficult it will be for them to expand on things given costs and availability of the voice actors.

    In some ways they've already started skipping this, when I came back to the game I noticed that Section X's dailies were pretty much all pick up quests from some terminal, with no dialogues - something they've largely done in the Black Hole too.

    It doesn't matter much since they are dailies, but still...

    Here's to hoping Makeb will be awesome, and that it'll come out in March rather than June.

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