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Perhaps this game requires too much grind after all
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
Perhaps this game requires too much grind after all.
somebody on the forum posted a nice thread that maybe we could discuss over here as well to avoid any issues Anet may have with it.
Hi I like the rest of you bought into this game but I feel like I was punched in the gut and laughed at.
This game was suppose to built on not having grind. This was one of Anet’s key manifesto points however now:
1. Legendary weapon grind
2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.
Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)
They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.
2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need atleast 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.And finally did they not state how this was directed towards everyday? People who simply do not have the time to put in 100s of hours into the game? The information given above tends to differ.
What I don’t understand and what the community in general is confused about is why this game was marked towards people who don’t like grind. Simple put, why not market it towards the people that love grind? (not saying that is bad but it is a completly different market)
I would agree. Seems strange to market the game to people that do not like a grind.
But one of the grinds I would add, is the leveling grind. why did they have a higher leveling curve for 1-30 compared to the higher levels? whats the point of that? especially seeing that players cant use elites nor run dungeons until level 30. the leveling curve is backwards. I remember early on Anet said that there would be no leveling curve. But I guess they changed their mind. But why?
Whats your opinion on this?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
It doesn't require any grind. No seriously, it doesn't. You don't need the expensive stuff to be able to do all the content. Having "Fancy Armor of Fancyness" doesn't benefit you in any way other than pure vanity. 100g for base exotic set? Yeah, maybe if you plan to buy every single mat off TP, which never happens, because whyw ould youw hen you can easily gather most of the stuff just from levelling to 80? Not to mention you can finish all explorable modes in masterworks.
Complaining about Legendary being a grind? Seriously? KArma? Ever since they started rewarding jugs of karma for dailies and monthlies it's harldy an issue, hence the whole Orrian JEwelry Box to create a karma dump because people had no use for that.
Ascended gear? Well if you really need that agony resistance... which isn't really required till later tiers of Fractals, which happens to be the place where you can get those items... Or you can just do dailies for a month.
Grind seems like a nice but overused word. There is farming, sure, optional farming, for vanity, but grind? MMO gamers nowadays have no idea what grind is and seem to call anything they currently don't feel liek doing as grind because they aren't handed everything for free just because how awesome they are.
I bought full exotics for my thief for around 20gold once I hit level 80. I had 12 gold left over.
Now, if I want I can grind out gold or karma to pick up something specific, but that is just if I want to. BIG difference.
Need vs Want. People should try to understand the difference.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Noli sinere te ab improbis opprimi
I strongly disagree. If you had said this last week, then yes, you may have been right, because you would have to grind gold to buy jewellery. However with this weeks patch, you can now get fully exotic geared with karma alone (you can now purchase back and jewellery with karma from Orr).
240k is nothing, you get at least 10k per day for the dailies (plus whatever you get from doing the DEs while you do it) and 100k for the monthly achievements. By the time you finish leveling a character you should have more than enough karma to purchase a full set of exotic. Putting you at pretty much max power.
The ascended is a bit of a grind, but thats the whole point - to give a longer term goal. But you are talking about a 1% increase in quality.
Well first of all, the Ascended gear is a non-issue because it was stated that this is a one time thing done to add another stepping stone in between the already existing item qualities. This is a whole new item quality, not your regular new item "tier" that you find in other MMOs.
Secondly, yes it IS a huge effort to obtain the best looking and most coveted weapons in the game. What on earth did you expect?
There is no grind necessary what so ever to partake in any of the content in the game. You progress quickly with natural playstyle and only need to grind to obtain the best looking items.
I agree. To me, a grind is being used when you are forced to do stuff to advance your character. In GW2 you are free to choose how you advance your character. Unless it is one of the bazillion Asian F2P mmo's, I don't really see any AAA mmo's today that are a required grind.
People praise pre-NGE SWG, but mastering professions in that game was a mind numbing grind.
Yes there is a grind. Yes it is for gear that does matter. Yes this is what they promised us would not happen. Yes, they lied.
For any WvW player who dislikes dungeons there are two options: Grind them anyway or be at a stat disadvantage to those who do.
Oh wait, there is a third option. Quit the game.
Which is the option I hope most WvW fans eventually will go with, to teach Arenanet and other devs not to do this to us ever again!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
WvW gives karma. You can buy a full exotic set with karma by visiting Orr. Fail troll is fail.
I´ll play de Devil´s advocate....
I agree with the first poll option,this game is far a lot more grindy that announced.
Difference is that grinding is pure optional or psicological...since some of the uppper stats don´t different that much with any exotic gear and that difference makes even smaller difference in real combat.
Grinding is "mostly" pure optional,collecting most of all,but is far from what i expected i must agree.
Too much "Mystic Forge" centered¬¬
Totally dislike that devil´s Forge!
Where´s Wally?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
That would be true if Exotic were still best in slot. It isn't.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I really enjoy the combat and getting creative with combo fields (possibly the most innovative part of the game) and this makes endless Orr DEs tolerable.
I cant imagine a person that hates character building over an extended period of time tolerating the legendary process.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
WvW gives karma. You can buy a full exotic set with karma by visiting Orr. Fail troll is fail.
That would be true if Exotic were still best in slot. It isn't.
it is best in slot for most items the rest you can get by doing the dailys/monthlys while WvWing now so whats the problem again?rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Most of what people are calling a grind is optional. Getting level 80 exotics is a bit more time intensive than they had implied before launch, but it's not overbearing. I've always done just fine with level 80 content with a mix of rares and masterworks until I could save up for or otherwise acquire my exotics.
The newly introduced Laurel system for awarding achievments is to be greatly expanded in the months ahead. Not only will laurels be easier to obtain, (via normal achievments, rather than just dailies and monthlies), but the selection of rewards will be greatly expanded as well. It seems that this new system will be an important element in fulfilling the original promise that players will be able to obtain there exotics and other special gear in ways appropriate for their play style.
Are dailies a grind? I don't believe so. Most of the aspects for daily completion can be completed during ordinary play, but players with limited time can focus on the checklist and knock them out in less than an hour. In the next month or two, they will be changing the dailies to allow players to pick from a list of daily achievments, so players will be able to skip some of the requirements they may not care for.
MMOs need to provide incentives for play. Just having a path towards earning some reward does not mean that path is a grind, even if it takes some time and effort. I've seen plenty of true grind in other games, like killing thousands of mobs in a tiny area of the game for reputation rewards, or being forced to kill, kill, kill for hours to level up once the quest content for the current level has dried up. We don't have that kind of grind in GW2.
That doesn't mean there aren't some things that can feel grindy in the game, but Arenanet is making a lot of effort to add alternative routes for earning desirable rewards and the more options there are, the more freedom players have to chose the game play they enjoy while working towards desired rewards. More choice equals less grind, while still preserving the need for effort in earning those rewards.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
It's easy to get the full exotic sets when you hit 80 just by playing dungeons or crafting with mats which you've probably earned if you were collecting everything while leveling. The armor is not an issue really...
I agree that it really does require alot of grind if you're hunting for something specail like weapons with really cool skins (semi-legendary) or legendary weapons and I really feel dissapointed knowing that I might never have even a semi-legendary looking weapon (I call them that way since they're really hard to get and require alot of materials and stones) but it was the same deal with GW1...
I never had obsidian armor and I never had BSD weapons because I didn't want to grind alot so I didn't have alot of platinums, but it's something I had to settle with because that would bring me more frustration in getting than fun while doing dungoens or pvp with friends.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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It takes much longer to get them that way than it does by running the dungeons and I don't run dungeons is my problem. It's a grind.
They should have equalized gear in WvW like they did in their tournament pvp, then I wouldn't have a bad thing to say about this. But they failed to do so. They in fact have failed to meet my expectations. They have also failed to keep their promises.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
IMHO, is there a grind?.. .yep, there are lots of it.... Does it require a grind?... I'd say no, it doesn't.
Getting legendary weapons or that cool looking armor set you might have set your eyes on will indeed require a huge grind... but a completely optional one.
Compared to the game everyone loves to hate, WoW, for example, since I didn't play GW1 long enough to get to the grindy parts, if you wanted to progress, you had to grind, no way around it. I'll be using TBC as an example, since that's where I did some raiding. If I wanted to go to karazhan (easiest raid), then I had to grind heroic dungeons, because there was no way I'd survive there without heroic epic level gear, then if I wanted to do gruul's or magtheridon, I had to grind karazhan because to beat them everyone would need to have karazhan level gear and so on and so forth. If I didn't grinded (ground?) on one level of progression until I got enough stuff from there, I just couldn't go to the next level.
I compare it with GW2. When I first got to level 80 I had enough money to buy myself a full rare set (the vigil one, which IMHO is also a very good looking one too) with the money I got by leveling regularly, slowly working towards exotics gear, but the benefits of an exotic gear isn't that much, and there's really no content in the game I couldn't do with rare gear (or maybe even lower) anyway. The main exception is ascended gear because you need it for higher level fractals, but chances are once you get to that point you've done enough fractals that you will have at least one ascended piece of gear.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Stay focused people, I'm all about the best in slot.
BiS is what I want to be available without a deadly boring grind or months on end of playing catchup through dailies.
I do not care about nor believe the statements by other players that it doesn't matter because in WvW I assure you there are situations every day where it does. So either they need to equalize the gear for WvW and then let people do whatever for their PVE gear or they need to make this gear obtainable through WvW and other means at the same rate as it is available to fractal grinders/mat buyers/people who use their wallets to buy mats.
That is my opinion. Yours may differ. But you can't argue me out of it because the simple fact is, BiS gear isn't available without that dungeon grind unless you're willing to remain half a year or so behind the dungeon grinders. Maybe that means nothing to you, but for me it's a deal breaker. No more money of mine for Anet.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
this is no longer true as of the last patch.. so its no longer a fact at all.. also why would you need to give them any more money to begin with?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D