Originally posted by Fendel84M Most of the kids who started with WoW are adults now. People need to stop talking about all the kids that started with WoW. lol
Yet they still believe they are "Gods of pvp" because they had high arena score.... funny
UO, that was proper PVP with real death penaltys. Looted, lost ur horse, and you have to run naked and humiliated back to town to get a resurrection from the healer.
Atleast it was based on player skill, not ur stupid gear.
Yet you still believe UO vets are "Gods of pvp" because they had PK's and full loot corpse runs.... funny
It's amazing to me that people are so incapable of viewing biased perspective when complaining ABOUT biased perspective...
When I play an MMORPG I am only interested in PvE experience, mostly the group experience and partially the odd soloing and raiding urges.
If I want to PvP I play a real PvP game like an RTS or something designed for PvP in mind. I think most player shide behind the flaws of an MMORPG to make themselves "feel" uber or l33t.
and I don't mind the interrupting of your PvE experience by the ganker PvP I think that's fun... my main problem with PvP implemented in PvE game is the "balance" that goes with it. It restricts a lot of the fun and creativity of PvE just to tweak PvP for it. Itemizations get tweaked, classes get tweaked, everything gets adjusted just for the sake of "balance" for PvP.
Wasted developer time for what?
Token hunting, retarded Arena Games (BattleGrounds)... meaningless and pointless twitchy combat. 99.99% of the situations are not "fair" whether it's Class-to-Class imbalances, Gear, Level, Outnumbering, Latency, Ganking... and whathaveyou.
I want a pure PvE game where the developer goes very creative with class design and itemization without the fear of breaking their precious PvP system.
Just like with any internet poll, it is hardly scientific.
I'd love to see some serious polling done though. Things like defining words and clarifying meaning, giving people unbiased options which are chosen based on personal preference.
For example, instead of saying an obviously unintelligent biased...
" I love the cheap thrill of ganking give me more" - 4.5%
You state the choice in a way that caters towards people who love the "cheap thrill of ganking". When phrased correctly, the 4.5% will rise dramatically. When phrased in such a bias way to paint it was idiocy or negative, obviously very few will vote this option. Those who do, like myself, most likely did so because it's the 'joke' option.
PvP and PvE or "Both" are entirely relative to the game mechanics. That is why this poll is fail.
Would love to see some professional polls though.
I voted for that option too. Based on the OP's negative view of PvP I figured that's want he wanted to hear. I aim to please.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Lets consider, the number one video game franchise online in the world is Call of Duty. Call of Duty is a pvp based game. Originally, mmorpgs were strictly pve. Pvp was mainly a side show for mmorpgs back in the day. Then came Dark Age of Camelot. Which mixed pvp or in Dark ages world RVR into the mainstream of mmorpgs.
The best mmorpg is a game which incorporates both a nice pve environ as well as nice pvp. A great example of that currently would be RIFT. The question would be, why would any mmorpg developer limit themselves to only one or the other? I do not see either pve or pvp going away anytime soon. I expect more developers to bring pve and pvp to bear in its titles.
There's another assumption on the ops post, an assumption that oldschool mmo players are pve types and "the kids" are more pvp orientated
In my experience its the opposite. Unless you played EQ exclusively and didn't touch any other older mmos, all the other pre wow era mmos did much more with pvp than the games of wows era (im including gw1, coh and eq2 as wow era games)
I voted PvE. There are two barriers to entry that prevent me from ever embracing PvP. (Well, three... but the third is the immaturity that a certain percentage of players demonstrate; but you can get a bad apple in any bunch no matter what you're doing).
Barrier 1 is the "flavor of the month" and/or the "cheats/hacks". Nearly every MMO I've been involved with has had a sub-group of PvPers who find some exploit to gain an unfair advantage. The game company is usually slow to respond (well, I should say, it's not a quick fix), and now every PvP fight has to be scrutinized like a baseball player hitting 60 homeruns. I like a fair fight where my own strategy and character build offers me a chance to win (or lose fairly if I am not prepared).
Barrier 2 is not always the case, but it does deter me: I don't like MMO PvP systems that require an entirely different character stat; a stat that has no bearing on PvE. For example, the "Toughness" in DCUO or "Expertise" in SWTOR. My play time is limited each evening. I don't have time to build a PvE template AND a PvP template. That's my own problem, of course. I don't fault anyone else for me not having time to commit. But it IS a barrier to my entry into PvP. I liked TSW's PvP and have played it extensively. I'm not the best, I'm not the worst. But I can compete because my PvE gear and abilities works the same in PvP, for the most part.
But even the most perfect PvP system would never replace PvE for me. I like exploring, complex crafting systems (SWG or death!), and learning about the environment and how to overcome it's challenges. PvP becomes repetitive to me; a nice diversion sometimes, but frustrating over the long term.
How many mmorpg's released in the past 5 years have forced PvP on you? They're not hard to avoid.
I acualy do like pvp if done right. I was just posing a qustion if DEVS gear MMO's now twords pvp instead of pve.
No, they don't. MMOs are still extremely PvE focused with all their raids/dungeons/questing/housing etc. being implemented all the time. Although all major MMOs throw in some PvP because no PvP is a huge no no for most people. Even if that pvp is just implemented as an afterthought. Even the earliest MMOs had PvP in them and it did play a fairly significant part in them - e.g. UO and DaoC. THe only exception was EQ but you can't make generalisations based on just one MMO can you now?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
Just like with any internet poll, it is hardly scientific.
I'd love to see some serious polling done though. Things like defining words and clarifying meaning, giving people unbiased options which are chosen based on personal preference.
For example, instead of saying an obviously unintelligent biased...
" I love the cheap thrill of ganking give me more" - 4.5%
You state the choice in a way that caters towards people who love the "cheap thrill of ganking". When phrased correctly, the 4.5% will rise dramatically. When phrased in such a bias way to paint it was idiocy or negative, obviously very few will vote this option. Those who do, like myself, most likely did so because it's the 'joke' option.
PvP and PvE or "Both" are entirely relative to the game mechanics. That is why this poll is fail.
Would love to see some professional polls though.
I voted for that option too. Based on the OP's negative view of PvP I figured that's want he wanted to hear. I aim to please.
All things highlighted I want to address.
1. You are right this is not a scientific pole. I did not get paid to do this pole Instead it is a pole of fun if you will because it is very intreasting to me to get view points from members from this comunity since we are a colorful bunch for the most part I believe that 97% of all you gave a answer gave a honest reply to this thread.
2. Number one cover number 2 as mention 93% I believe gave a honest answer and btw ty for all the replies I read them all and comment on the ones that caught my attention. Anyways that will qualify personal prefrence and if you dont believe me then feel free to go read every single post and you will see this to be true.
3. the last choice " I love to gank give me more" option was just that a joke. shows that 4.5 of us has a since of humor.
4. Sorry if you feel this was a negative view of PVP I did not mean to come across that way. Both is a good choice but were you honest with your answer and please I dont want it to be what you think I want to hear but I am more intreasted in what you have to say.
5. One last point if anyone so desires to make a professional pole that is off this topic then pls do so, I will be happy to partake in it and give a honest opinion.
Originally posted by Theocritus There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all.
Originally posted by Theocritus There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
Such BS.
I play mainly crafter in mmo's and sometimes it gets tedious to craft and pve for loot and resources all the time. Sometimes i need a break from boring a$$ quests and aimlessly looking for resources to craft with. Thus PvP is a break from the "norm" and just to go let loose.
When i PvP i do it in group, thus rarely get ganked. Also few games with open world PvP it was strict guild policy not to engage with someone under our skill level unless attacked first.
Tired of these BS misconception about pvp, and made up stuff about being ganked all the time just so they can try to proove a point. Which is based on fabrication in most cases.
I like pvp because its a challange, human vs humanm, and i like smack talk. And i play crafter mostly, so you missing a few "types" there?
And to be honest, 95% of the newer aged themeparks force you to pvp at end game for loot, gear, and coin anyways. Just because they instance it doesnt make it a safer pvp atmosphere. You proably die more in a raid or battlezone than you would in an open world environment unless you are clueless, clumsy, and just oblivious to your surroundings. And many times the battlezones are not equal on terms of skill, level, and size of team which is no different than being ganked (larger group/more skilled group killing smaller group/less skilled group).
Originally posted by Theocritus There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all.
Agreed. /thread
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by Theocritus There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all.
So you posted this thread with the conclusion already in mind, got some people to agree with it, concluded with a strawman and you are satisfied?
How many mmorpg's released in the past 5 years have forced PvP on you? They're not hard to avoid.
Not forced to pvp no but forced our characters to be nerfed or changed because of pvp whiners. Make pvp completely separate to pve.
Amen to that, but it will never happen. Developers are too damn lazy to come out with separate code for each, just like they're too lazy to come out with two separate interfaces for hybrid PC / Console MMOs.
I don't think it is laziness, but rather that it is a lot of effort for not much return.
Really, so that's why most hybrid MMOs with console style interfaces are big hits with the PC gamers? I'd say that is more than enough reason to put a little more effort into retaining all of those fleeing or never starting PC gamers. It was a huge stink for FFXI when it released and they were forced to make changes. I know DCUO's interface irritated the hell out of me, now whether that played a big part in it's lack of popularity isn't proven, but probably likely. The same goes for FFXIV, which surely had other issues, but the interface was one of the big ones and guess what, is being changed for version 2.0. Any game that has both PvE and PvP, there is always a huge stink when PvP gets nerfed and everyone who does PvE has to suffer for it. I've seen it happen in DAoC, AO, Lineage II, Aion, SWTOR, WHO and GW2.
So yeah, there is a lot more return for putting in separate code for things like PvP balance and interfaces than some might think and that translates into real revenue.
Originally posted by Theocritus There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all.
So you posted this thread with the conclusion already in mind, got some people to agree with it, concluded with a strawman and you are satisfied?
Well, you are easy to please, I'll give you that.
Agreed! Now that the argument has been "won", we can all go back to our regularly scheduled programs.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Originally posted by Theocritus There are probably two types of MMO players: A) One that enjoys challenging PVE content having to work with otehrs to accomplish it and One that gets his enjoyment from ruining other players enjoyment by killing them as often as they can
This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all.
So you posted this thread with the conclusion already in mind, got some people to agree with it, concluded with a strawman and you are satisfied?
Well, you are easy to please, I'll give you that.
I had no conclusion in mind. Acualy Theocritus conclusion seem to fit the mold of the thread very well. Yes I agree and hope not all would agree and fit in to the mold of the thread Ty for those who dont. But It is true I am easy to please.
How many mmorpg's released in the past 5 years have forced PvP on you? They're not hard to avoid.
Not forced to pvp no but forced our characters to be nerfed or changed because of pvp whiners. Make pvp completely separate to pve.
Amen to that, but it will never happen. Developers are too damn lazy to come out with separate code for each, just like they're too lazy to come out with two separate interfaces for hybrid PC / Console MMOs.
I don't think it is laziness, but rather that it is a lot of effort for not much return.
Really, so that's why most hybrid MMOs with console style interfaces are big hits with the PC gamers? I'd say that is more than enough reason to put a little more effort into retaining all of those fleeing or never starting PC gamers. It was a huge stink for FFXI when it released and they were forced to make changes. I know DCUO's interface irritated the hell out of me, now whether that played a big part in it's lack of popularity isn't proven, but probably likely. The same goes for FFXIV, which surely had other issues, but the interface was one of the big ones and guess what, is being changed for version 2.0.
So yeah, there is a lot more return for putting in separate code for things like PvP balance and interfaces than some might think and that translates into real revenue.
Fair enough. There could be resons to think there would be a good return for much effort. But just writing off any company that does the math and comes up with a different conclusion is just lazy is unfair.
Agreed! Now that the argument has been "won", we can all go back to our regularly scheduled programs.
Ok. I'll make sure I never even take a break from PvE to do PVP since that would make me a ganker only in it to ruing someone else's fun.
Yeah, the fact is, your typical PVP griefers are the in-game equivalent of your forum trolls. They get noticed more and receive more attention because they are the loudest and most obvious. It often feels like they've overrun the place, but in reality, they are a minority.
In the grand scheme of things, there are way more players just looking for competitive gameplay with thinking opponents. For every griefer, you easily have 10-20 players just looking for some challenging play with others.
There's several different types of PvPers. Griefers, "If it's red, it's dead", honorable players who don't gank someone fighting 3 mobs or gank lowbies, arena junkies, battleground instance players, siege-focused guys, etc.
Then you have those strange PVE guys who play on PVP servers/games because it adds some type of realism/thrill even though they don't really like PVP.
The reason players who decide to try PvP and end up hating it think all PvP gaming is ganking is because the griefers tend to be the first people you encounter, waiting around to prey on lowbies and newbies and whatnot, while the regular(majority) of the PvP players are just somewhere else doing their own thing in areas more suited to their level of play.
P.S. The reason no one shows good sportsmanship anymore, such as telling your opponent "Hey, great fight, man," or tips their hats in respect, is because games don't allow it. The majority of games today don't allow you to communicate with your faction enemies, etc. Makes me sad, I've had some great chats with folks in the past after a PvP battle, giving each other tips and showing appreciation for a great fight.
P.S. The reason no one shows good sportsmanship anymore, such as telling your opponent "Hey, great fight, man," or tips their hats in respect, is because games don't allow it. The majority of games today don't allow you to communicate with your faction enemies, etc. Makes me sad, I've had some great chats with folks in the past after a PvP battle, giving each other tips and showing appreciation for a great fight.
Not true in the e-sports game like SC2, or LOL, or even WOT. You can chat with anyone.
The real culprit are the FPS games & FPS gamers. If they had any skill at he fps They would still be playing them, but this group doesn’t have the skill to play FPS. So they have come to MMORPG is hopes of finding less skilled players than themselves.
You can identify these people by the demand for pvp in forums, their complaints about rpg combat being “face roll” and a demand for a more action (FPS) style of combat. Other buzz words used by gamers who prefer FPS is the need for more dynamic events and NPCs. These players failed at Far Gear’s of Modern Duty, but are hoping to find some acknowledgement of their skill. Skill they clearly don’t have, in MMORPG’s.
FPSs are mostly played on consoles, the commonality of hardware leaves only skill as the deciding factor in victory (usually). In that setting the failed FPS player has no hope of achieving the notoriety they falsely believe they deserve. After abandoning FPS in shame, they try PC based MMORPG. The diversity of hardware configuration assures them that there will be some whose hardware negates their skill and gives the FPS gamer a chance to win at pvp.
When the FPS gamer continues to fail at pvp, they turn to ganking. Their reasoning, pve players clearly are not good at pvp and are easy targets. Contrary to popular belief the FPS gamer are not kids but 20 year olds, ex-college students whose parents still buy them everything.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Unfortunately for Arenanet a lot of us are burned out on PVE and small scale PvP and we thought WvW was the best part of Guild Wars 2 by far. Why is that unfortunate?
Rendering issues.
Exploits.
Extreme unbalance between servers and consequently server hopping, which just made things worse.
So yes, a lot of us are tired of PVE and enjoy the challenge of PvP, especially PvP on a huge scale. But creating and maintaining that type of content seems to be beyond what Arenanet can manage or wants to allocate resources to. Much easier to whip up a few dungeons, tack on some shiny top end gear, and take the rest of the day off.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Comments
Yet you still believe UO vets are "Gods of pvp" because they had PK's and full loot corpse runs.... funny
It's amazing to me that people are so incapable of viewing biased perspective when complaining ABOUT biased perspective...
When I play an MMORPG I am only interested in PvE experience, mostly the group experience and partially the odd soloing and raiding urges.
If I want to PvP I play a real PvP game like an RTS or something designed for PvP in mind. I think most player shide behind the flaws of an MMORPG to make themselves "feel" uber or l33t.
and I don't mind the interrupting of your PvE experience by the ganker PvP I think that's fun... my main problem with PvP implemented in PvE game is the "balance" that goes with it. It restricts a lot of the fun and creativity of PvE just to tweak PvP for it. Itemizations get tweaked, classes get tweaked, everything gets adjusted just for the sake of "balance" for PvP.
Wasted developer time for what?
Token hunting, retarded Arena Games (BattleGrounds)... meaningless and pointless twitchy combat. 99.99% of the situations are not "fair" whether it's Class-to-Class imbalances, Gear, Level, Outnumbering, Latency, Ganking... and whathaveyou.
I want a pure PvE game where the developer goes very creative with class design and itemization without the fear of breaking their precious PvP system.
I voted for that option too. Based on the OP's negative view of PvP I figured that's want he wanted to hear. I aim to please.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Lets consider, the number one video game franchise online in the world is Call of Duty. Call of Duty is a pvp based game. Originally, mmorpgs were strictly pve. Pvp was mainly a side show for mmorpgs back in the day. Then came Dark Age of Camelot. Which mixed pvp or in Dark ages world RVR into the mainstream of mmorpgs.
The best mmorpg is a game which incorporates both a nice pve environ as well as nice pvp. A great example of that currently would be RIFT. The question would be, why would any mmorpg developer limit themselves to only one or the other? I do not see either pve or pvp going away anytime soon. I expect more developers to bring pve and pvp to bear in its titles.
In my experience its the opposite. Unless you played EQ exclusively and didn't touch any other older mmos, all the other pre wow era mmos did much more with pvp than the games of wows era (im including gw1, coh and eq2 as wow era games)
"originally mmos were strictly pve"
No they weren't.
I voted PvE. There are two barriers to entry that prevent me from ever embracing PvP. (Well, three... but the third is the immaturity that a certain percentage of players demonstrate; but you can get a bad apple in any bunch no matter what you're doing).
Barrier 1 is the "flavor of the month" and/or the "cheats/hacks". Nearly every MMO I've been involved with has had a sub-group of PvPers who find some exploit to gain an unfair advantage. The game company is usually slow to respond (well, I should say, it's not a quick fix), and now every PvP fight has to be scrutinized like a baseball player hitting 60 homeruns. I like a fair fight where my own strategy and character build offers me a chance to win (or lose fairly if I am not prepared).
Barrier 2 is not always the case, but it does deter me: I don't like MMO PvP systems that require an entirely different character stat; a stat that has no bearing on PvE. For example, the "Toughness" in DCUO or "Expertise" in SWTOR. My play time is limited each evening. I don't have time to build a PvE template AND a PvP template. That's my own problem, of course. I don't fault anyone else for me not having time to commit. But it IS a barrier to my entry into PvP. I liked TSW's PvP and have played it extensively. I'm not the best, I'm not the worst. But I can compete because my PvE gear and abilities works the same in PvP, for the most part.
But even the most perfect PvP system would never replace PvE for me. I like exploring, complex crafting systems (SWG or death!), and learning about the environment and how to overcome it's challenges. PvP becomes repetitive to me; a nice diversion sometimes, but frustrating over the long term.
No, they don't. MMOs are still extremely PvE focused with all their raids/dungeons/questing/housing etc. being implemented all the time. Although all major MMOs throw in some PvP because no PvP is a huge no no for most people. Even if that pvp is just implemented as an afterthought. Even the earliest MMOs had PvP in them and it did play a fairly significant part in them - e.g. UO and DaoC. THe only exception was EQ but you can't make generalisations based on just one MMO can you now?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
All things highlighted I want to address.
1. You are right this is not a scientific pole. I did not get paid to do this pole Instead it is a pole of fun if you will because it is very intreasting to me to get view points from members from this comunity since we are a colorful bunch for the most part I believe that 97% of all you gave a answer gave a honest reply to this thread.
2. Number one cover number 2 as mention 93% I believe gave a honest answer and btw ty for all the replies I read them all and comment on the ones that caught my attention. Anyways that will qualify personal prefrence and if you dont believe me then feel free to go read every single post and you will see this to be true.
3. the last choice " I love to gank give me more" option was just that a joke. shows that 4.5 of us has a since of humor.
4. Sorry if you feel this was a negative view of PVP I did not mean to come across that way. Both is a good choice but were you honest with your answer and please I dont want it to be what you think I want to hear but I am more intreasted in what you have to say.
5. One last point if anyone so desires to make a professional pole that is off this topic then pls do so, I will be happy to partake in it and give a honest opinion.
This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all.
Such BS.
I play mainly crafter in mmo's and sometimes it gets tedious to craft and pve for loot and resources all the time. Sometimes i need a break from boring a$$ quests and aimlessly looking for resources to craft with. Thus PvP is a break from the "norm" and just to go let loose.
When i PvP i do it in group, thus rarely get ganked. Also few games with open world PvP it was strict guild policy not to engage with someone under our skill level unless attacked first.
Tired of these BS misconception about pvp, and made up stuff about being ganked all the time just so they can try to proove a point. Which is based on fabrication in most cases.
I like pvp because its a challange, human vs humanm, and i like smack talk. And i play crafter mostly, so you missing a few "types" there?
And to be honest, 95% of the newer aged themeparks force you to pvp at end game for loot, gear, and coin anyways. Just because they instance it doesnt make it a safer pvp atmosphere. You proably die more in a raid or battlezone than you would in an open world environment unless you are clueless, clumsy, and just oblivious to your surroundings. And many times the battlezones are not equal on terms of skill, level, and size of team which is no different than being ganked (larger group/more skilled group killing smaller group/less skilled group).
Agreed. /thread
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
So you posted this thread with the conclusion already in mind, got some people to agree with it, concluded with a strawman and you are satisfied?
Well, you are easy to please, I'll give you that.
Really, so that's why most hybrid MMOs with console style interfaces are big hits with the PC gamers? I'd say that is more than enough reason to put a little more effort into retaining all of those fleeing or never starting PC gamers. It was a huge stink for FFXI when it released and they were forced to make changes. I know DCUO's interface irritated the hell out of me, now whether that played a big part in it's lack of popularity isn't proven, but probably likely. The same goes for FFXIV, which surely had other issues, but the interface was one of the big ones and guess what, is being changed for version 2.0. Any game that has both PvE and PvP, there is always a huge stink when PvP gets nerfed and everyone who does PvE has to suffer for it. I've seen it happen in DAoC, AO, Lineage II, Aion, SWTOR, WHO and GW2.
So yeah, there is a lot more return for putting in separate code for things like PvP balance and interfaces than some might think and that translates into real revenue.
Agreed! Now that the argument has been "won", we can all go back to our regularly scheduled programs.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I had no conclusion in mind. Acualy Theocritus conclusion seem to fit the mold of the thread very well. Yes I agree and hope not all would agree and fit in to the mold of the thread Ty for those who dont. But It is true I am easy to please.
Fair enough. There could be resons to think there would be a good return for much effort. But just writing off any company that does the math and comes up with a different conclusion is just lazy is unfair.
Ok. I'll make sure I never even take a break from PvE to do PVP since that would make me a ganker only in it to ruing someone else's fun.
Yeah, the fact is, your typical PVP griefers are the in-game equivalent of your forum trolls. They get noticed more and receive more attention because they are the loudest and most obvious. It often feels like they've overrun the place, but in reality, they are a minority.
In the grand scheme of things, there are way more players just looking for competitive gameplay with thinking opponents. For every griefer, you easily have 10-20 players just looking for some challenging play with others.
There's several different types of PvPers. Griefers, "If it's red, it's dead", honorable players who don't gank someone fighting 3 mobs or gank lowbies, arena junkies, battleground instance players, siege-focused guys, etc.
Then you have those strange PVE guys who play on PVP servers/games because it adds some type of realism/thrill even though they don't really like PVP.
The reason players who decide to try PvP and end up hating it think all PvP gaming is ganking is because the griefers tend to be the first people you encounter, waiting around to prey on lowbies and newbies and whatnot, while the regular(majority) of the PvP players are just somewhere else doing their own thing in areas more suited to their level of play.
P.S. The reason no one shows good sportsmanship anymore, such as telling your opponent "Hey, great fight, man," or tips their hats in respect, is because games don't allow it. The majority of games today don't allow you to communicate with your faction enemies, etc. Makes me sad, I've had some great chats with folks in the past after a PvP battle, giving each other tips and showing appreciation for a great fight.
Not true in the e-sports game like SC2, or LOL, or even WOT. You can chat with anyone.
You can identify these people by the demand for pvp in forums, their complaints about rpg combat being “face roll” and a demand for a more action (FPS) style of combat. Other buzz words used by gamers who prefer FPS is the need for more dynamic events and NPCs. These players failed at Far Gear’s of Modern Duty, but are hoping to find some acknowledgement of their skill. Skill they clearly don’t have, in MMORPG’s.
FPSs are mostly played on consoles, the commonality of hardware leaves only skill as the deciding factor in victory (usually). In that setting the failed FPS player has no hope of achieving the notoriety they falsely believe they deserve. After abandoning FPS in shame, they try PC based MMORPG. The diversity of hardware configuration assures them that there will be some whose hardware negates their skill and gives the FPS gamer a chance to win at pvp.
When the FPS gamer continues to fail at pvp, they turn to ganking. Their reasoning, pve players clearly are not good at pvp and are easy targets. Contrary to popular belief the FPS gamer are not kids but 20 year olds, ex-college students whose parents still buy them everything.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Unfortunately for Arenanet a lot of us are burned out on PVE and small scale PvP and we thought WvW was the best part of Guild Wars 2 by far. Why is that unfortunate?
Rendering issues.
Exploits.
Extreme unbalance between servers and consequently server hopping, which just made things worse.
So yes, a lot of us are tired of PVE and enjoy the challenge of PvP, especially PvP on a huge scale. But creating and maintaining that type of content seems to be beyond what Arenanet can manage or wants to allocate resources to. Much easier to whip up a few dungeons, tack on some shiny top end gear, and take the rest of the day off.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
As opposed to PvE'ers who are college professors.