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Doing it differently

Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

I just spent about fifteen minutes thinking, for the first time, what might have been a better alternative to the rather forced faction split in ESO which nevertheless would meet the requirement of DAOC-style three way combat.

My idea was having three different Royal Bloodline Houses with distinct heraldry, outlook etc. which could have be contesting for the Imperial Throne. They could have come to agree that Cyrodil was the only place they would directly contest as doing so elsewhere would both piss off one of the races who would then come and stomp them into dust and weaken the general resistance necessary against Molag...

Not interested in recruiting piecemeal, they seek out Guilds to declare alliegance to one or other of them rather like like mercenaries - loyal to their Royal Flag when in Cyrodil but restricting action to that area. To supplement this they could also accept alliegance on an individual basis to established members of NPC Guilds (Mages, etc.).

If a Royal House wins, they then put a sensibly named NPC on the Imperial Throne and then the victorious players vote on ‘Imperial Appointments’ - Seneschal, Marshal, Chancellor etc. - which spreads the love and the benefits and doesn’t wreck Lore by there ever having been an 'Emperor Noobslayor' on the throne... Each appointment might then have power to appoint the leaders of NPC Guilds - so the Imperial Marshal can appoint the leader of the Fighters Guild, the Imperial Seneschal the head of the Mages Guild, etc. - with sensible pre-requisites hardwired into the system to prevent stupid choices and rampant nepotism - through class choice, advancement and qualifying candidate questlines.

  • 3 way mass PvP? - check
  • A reason for mass PvP to be restricted to one region? - check
  • Player choice of faction (via Guilds or solo) - check
  • Player freedom to explore all of Cyrodil? - check
  • More people benefit from a win in Cyrodil? - check
  • No asshat Emperor names? - check
  • Players effecting the leaders within their own game more? - check

I know it’s too late in the day to change things (most probably), but please VOTE on my idea - would you prefer it, or prefer theirs...?

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Comments

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    It's a really cool and new idea. I like it personally, but I don't think it would work. It's a lot more complex than just locked factions, and humans are really good at breaking complex systems. If done right, this is a AAA idea imo.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common

    I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.

    If TES is going to come out like DAoC it will have housing. Maybe not at start but there will be housing. Just like DAoC.

    image
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.

    If TES is going to come out like DAoC it will have housing. Maybe not at start but there will be housing. Just like DAoC.

    They have said housing is high on their list for post launch

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    You idea fits the Elder Scroll Universe better from what I can tell, because I have always been an adventurer in the Elder Scrolls games, Its that feeling of freedom that attracted me to the game. Sure they do make you choose later in the Main Quest lines, and your idea would be that one choice that shapes your future quest lines and the reasons behind your actions and why you are killing others.

    This locked factions based on race just feels rushed, its like they sat down and said we needed three factions, and instead of making something unique , they just put all the races in the elder scrolls universe in a hat and blindly picked them.

    But they seem to be making some unique differences, I especially like the no skills approach and only Mana , Health and Stamina bar to look after. But I wonder how long will that novelty last in an MMO.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Originally posted by sapphen I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.
    If TES is going to come out like DAoC it will have housing. Maybe not at start but there will be housing. Just like DAoC.
    They have said housing is high on their list for post launch

    Every single mmorpg that comes out says this. almost never happens.

    image
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  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by deakon

    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Originally posted by sapphen I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.
    If TES is going to come out like DAoC it will have housing. Maybe not at start but there will be housing. Just like DAoC.
    They have said housing is high on their list for post launch

     

    Every single mmorpg that comes out says this. almost never happens.

    True but i think the ip being what it is, we will se it happen even if its just instanced off like lotro

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by deakon

    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Originally posted by sapphen I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.
    If TES is going to come out like DAoC it will have housing. Maybe not at start but there will be housing. Just like DAoC.
    They have said housing is high on their list for post launch

     

    Every single mmorpg that comes out says this. almost never happens.

    True but i think the ip being what it is, we will se it happen even if its just instanced off like lotro

    Yes, instanced off... like DAoC.

    As much as I liked the concept of housing in SWG "oh... I like this view... a river... MY HOUSE IS GOING TO BE RIGHT HERE"... well, I'd be happy with a DAoC / lotro housing hehe

    image
  • PinturicchioPinturicchio RENO, NVPosts: 35Member
    Housing... thats the only thing I want, NOT instanced HOUSING!
  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Pinturicchio
    Housing... thats the only thing I want, NOT instanced HOUSING!

    When I say "instanced housing like daoc" I'm talking about a different huge zone, almost a new continent, dedicated only to housing. In daoc you had this huge zone with all the player houses and you'd set up this neighbourhood usually the same as your friends and guild house... where you had your house, in front of your friend's house, with trees and gargens just like a real neighbourhood with your guild house at the end of the pathway and you could go to your friend's place and your friends could come to yours... you could leave your door unlocked so everyone could go there, or you could restrict your house to only friends, only 2 or 3 characters, to only your guild, etc...

    Its "instanced" because you "zone" to another huge area, like "flying from continent to continent" in WoW... when you zone in you have this huge area with only player houses, merchants, etc... in daoc it was a huge zone, divided in "villages" that were divided in "neighbourhoods".... but everything in "open air" so to speak.

     

    EDIT: This is a player housing zone in daoc. The numbers are like "door numbers"... for example... your house address would be "middleton, 1904 near the river.

    EDIT2: By the way - this map is 1/9th of the actual housing map. The midgard housing went from 1600 to 5200 in house address. This is the absolute middle of the map, there were 2 more on each side, 3 on top, and 3 below, so... 9 areas with one main market each, about 19 - 20 little villages or "neighbourhoods"

    image
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    I just spent about fifteen minutes thinking, for the first time, what might have been a better alternative to the rather forced faction split in ESO which nevertheless would meet the requirement of DAOC-style three way combat.

    My idea was having three different Royal Bloodline Houses with distinct heraldry, outlook etc. which could have be contesting for the Imperial Throne. They could have come to agree that Cyrodil was the only place they would directly contest as doing so elsewhere would both piss off one of the races who would then come and stomp them into dust and weaken the general resistance necessary against Molag...

    Not interested in recruiting piecemeal, they seek out Guilds to declare alliegance to one or other of them rather like like mercenaries - loyal to their Royal Flag when in Cyrodil but restricting action to that area. To supplement this they could also accept alliegance on an individual basis to established members of NPC Guilds (Mages, etc.).

    If a Royal House wins, they then put a sensibly named NPC on the Imperial Throne and then the victorious players vote on ‘Imperial Appointments’ - Seneschal, Marshal, Chancellor etc. - which spreads the love and the benefits and doesn’t wreck Lore by there ever having been an 'Emperor Noobslayor' on the throne... Each appointment might then have power to appoint the leaders of NPC Guilds - so the Imperial Marshal can appoint the leader of the Fighters Guild, the Imperial Seneschal the head of the Mages Guild, etc. - with sensible pre-requisites hardwired into the system to prevent stupid choices and rampant nepotism - through class choice, advancement and qualifying candidate questlines.

    • 3 way mass PvP? - check
    • A reason for mass PvP to be restricted to one region? - check Player choice of faction (via Guilds or solo) - check Player freedom to explore all of Cyrodil? - check More people benefit from a win in Cyrodil? - check No asshat Emperor names? - check Players effecting the leaders within their own game more? - check
    I know it’s too late in the day to change things (most probably), but please VOTE on my idea - would you prefer it, or prefer theirs...?

    Rather give you the money to develop it! ;p

    But in all seriousness, Post this in the Bethesda boards, I support it 100%

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Pinturicchio
    Housing... thats the only thing I want, NOT instanced HOUSING!

    It won't happen, any kind of area where you can just plop a house down would have to be a seperate continent such as Shadowbane or the upcoming Archeage.

    95% of all player housing will be instanced for a while IMO, as much as it sucks.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Crazy

    Instanced housing is the wrong term for daoc housing, its more like zoned housing. Archeage is doing something pretty simmilar.

    When I think instanced housing, I think just that everyone gets their own instance with their house in it, which isn't the daoc system, been as one of daocs defining features is zero instancing (well until stupid bloody catacombs)
  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Crazy

    Instanced housing is the wrong term for daoc housing, its more like zoned housing. Archeage is doing something pretty simmilar.

    When I think instanced housing, I think just that everyone gets their own instance with their house in it, which isn't the daoc system, been as one of daocs defining features is zero instancing (well until stupid bloody catacombs)

    Yeaa... I didnt explain myself very well I admit. But I've edited my post to make it a little bit closer to what I was trying to say hehe - was due to rusty mind-to-mouth-to fingers conductors... hehe

    image
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Come on you thread hijackers - this isn't about housing...
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    I like the game as its proposed because its features lore and the nuances of the elder scrolls single player RPGs and the locked faction areas of DAoC.  So NO your idea is rubbish to me.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by deakon

    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Originally posted by sapphen I never liked the Emperor system.  I would've prefered to see the higest ranking player from each of the factions given a castle.  They would have a master bedroom and can have up to 20 guests, all of which would have their own room.  It would be reset every month.  This way we could reward players for their effort and add in a type of a housing system.
    If TES is going to come out like DAoC it will have housing. Maybe not at start but there will be housing. Just like DAoC.
    They have said housing is high on their list for post launch

     

    Every single mmorpg that comes out says this. almost never happens.

    It is a valid point and as much disagreement as I have with you over this game that is one question that still has yet to be answered and wont be answered for a while.  I miss MMO's with housing and it is the ONLY feature I fee that ESO needs to be truely complete but unlike others I am willing to give them a pass for now because everything else interests me greatly about the game.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member

    Hmm, I do like DAoC's RvR system, despite all the complaining I've been doing on this game. The following I think are important, regardless of how it is done.

    1. Players should be able to choose whichever race they want, and while they may start out in their homeland, they shouldn't be restricted to it. 

    Actually, I think that's all I've got.

    So how do you funnel all those races into 3 different factions?

    Well, so far as I know, by playing TES games, there's no reason why any leader can't rally an army and take over the entire known world the way the Imperials did. The Imperials may be the ruling faction in TES games, but that doesn't mean they always will be.

    All you need is 3 strong NPC leaders, each with a vastly different cause that a player can relate to and get behind. Common causes in the real world have been political and religious in nature. You could have 1 leader that wants to conquer all the lands and build a theocracy, 1 leader who wants to create a democracy, and 1 leader who wants a new empire or to save the existing one. Each one can have noble and good reasons for wanting what they want, so their causes are all appealing and no one looks like a bad guy.

    Then players can choose which leader to follow at some point and join the war to conquer the lands.

    EDIT: 

    After rereading the OP, I realized we have similar ideas. I like yours too, as it's a believable way to split up players into 3 factions so we can have RvR. Either way, we both want the ability to choose where our loyalties lie, despite our race, and the ability to explore the entire known world with 1 character if we so choose.

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member

    Getting back on track...yes I do prefer your idea. Ever since I heard how they had decided to design the game I have been scratching my head trying to work out why. I think of all the ways they could have got their 3 faction PvP (seeing as it seems that is their only reall must have) but the way they have chosen to do it isn't just a bad way to do it but if probably the most NON ESO way of doing it.

    Removing all the choices, removing all the freedoms, removing all the exploration....all in the name of having 3 faction Pvp...especially when you could still get the 3 faction PvP without the downsides their design has.

    I continue to be baffled by their lack of ingenuity, vision and understanding of the IP they have.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    There's downside to other designs too. Witness tsws chummyness in pve leading to trading in pvp.
    Witness gw2s lack of rivalry and long term playability
    Witness swtor shitefest called illum and all the cheats that took advantage of being able to cross faction.
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

    Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

    Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

     

    Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

    1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

    2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

    3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

    4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

    5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

     

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

    Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

    Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

     

    Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

    1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

    2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

    3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

    4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

    5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

     

    And the crazy thing is you could do all of what the OP suggested, all of what you suggested and still, if you really, really wanted, have 3 faction pvp in Cyrodil. Each faction could join one of the major houses and all the politics that could go into getting a faction to change sides or where 2 factions fall out so is the faction or house loyalties more important.

    Only problem is, we are not the people being asked to be the creative ones or to design a system that fits both lore, the franchise and gameplay.

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

    Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

    Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

     

    Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

    1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

    2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

    3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

    4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

    5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

     

    And the crazy thing is you could do all of what the OP suggested, all of what you suggested and still, if you really, really wanted, have 3 faction pvp in Cyrodil. Each faction could join one of the major houses and all the politics that could go into getting a faction to change sides or where 2 factions fall out so is the faction or house loyalties more important.

    Only problem is, we are not the people being asked to be the creative ones or to design a system that fits both lore, the franchise and gameplay.

    If only this was the actual game we were getting.

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    You've just described daocs ffa servers. Like I've said the problem isn't rvr, the problem is this mega server. If they didn't have the mega server, they could have core/ffa/coop server setup from daoc and satisfy more people. Core for those that like both pve and pvp but like them separate, ffa for people who thought they were getting darkfall with a big budget, coop for people who thought it would be the second coming of everquest.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    to the OP, i'd much prefer your idea than the one zenimax came up with, its not only more in keeping with TES, but it would allow groups of friends to choose the races they wanted, and still be able to play together. imageimage
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