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ESO Petition, Make Tamriel Seamless.

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Comments

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk

    Am I reading this correctly in that we won't be able to visit each area of the world with one character?

    With MMOs still having an initial box price the capacity to try new MMOs that arise deminishes if you already have a set of games that you play.  While I'm sure the game will have a fan base and has the possibility of being a great game, I just cannot devote any time or resources on a game that restricts my access of travel throughout the world of Tamriel.  It's sad, but I don't want to have to create three characters and maintain those alts while also playing other games (both MMO and not) along with my other daily activities.

    This is a game I'll probably pass on, just on personal preference (or until the box drops significantly in price to try out the free month).  I'm just not interested in supporting a game that restricts me in exploratory ways, especially when that was what made the single player games so much fun to play for me.  Hope others find it enjoyable when it comes out; it might have change my mind when the box does indeed drop in price for me to try it out myself.

    I wish they would've originally created the setting without so much focus on the war.  There would still be 3 factions; Breton Merchant Lord, Nord High King and High Elf Queen - but they would be like 3 groups (or houses) fighting over the ruby throne.  This way players would have a choice on which side they joined and we could explore all of Tamreil.

    I would think freedom of exploration and faction choice would be a common TES fan's expectation.  I wonder if they even asked or cared how fans would view the limitations.  There is nothing we or the developers could do about it now.  Maybe after release if ESO does poorly, they'll release an expansion that would open things up but that's only a hope.

    Funniest part is when Frior said that he wanted to please both TES fans and MMO players when in fact they are the same people (according to the polls I've seen).  TES already appealed to both sides but instead of making a TES game he decided to remake his vision of DAoC2.
  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Funniest part is when Frior said that he wanted to please both TES fans and MMO players when in fact they are the same people (according to the polls I've seen).


    You mean those unscientific ones that flood this site?

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member
    i enjoy TES, rpgs and mmos,as well as fps, turn based, etc.....soo ummm what?

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  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Funniest part is when Frior said that he wanted to please both TES fans and MMO players when in fact they are the same people (according to the polls I've seen).

    You mean those unscientific ones that flood this site?

    Sure those polls, there was also one floating around on the ESO forums.  I still am willing to bet that the trend would be similar if it was on a large scale.  Most MMO players also play TES games because both are on the computer.  TES games do well, therefore I would conclude that most MMO players are TES fans (although most TES fans are not MMO players because of the console variable).

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Funniest part is when Frior said that he wanted to please both TES fans and MMO players when in fact they are the same people (according to the polls I've seen).

    You mean those unscientific ones that flood this site?

    Sure those polls, there was also one floating around on the ESO forums.  I still am willing to bet that the trend would be similar if it was on a large scale.  Most MMO players also play TES games because both are on the computer.  TES games do well, therefore I would conclude that most MMO players are TES fans (although most TES fans are not MMO players because of the console variable).

    If you like to gamble your money in that way so be it, but considering how dispersed the demographics are I do not believe the overlap is anywhere near as close as you think it is. Especially when you consider how much better the TES games sell on console for example, or the very reasons why players play mmos in the first place (you know that whole other player thing) versus a single player game. The point is, judging from inherently flawed polls is hilarious. Or do you want to take polls such as the one from Darthhater showing how awesome Swtor's cash shop is?

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by sapphen

    Sure those polls, there was also one floating around on the ESO forums.  I still am willing to bet that the trend would be similar if it was on a large scale.  Most MMO players also play TES games because both are on the computer.  TES games do well, therefore I would conclude that most MMO players are TES fans (although most TES fans are not MMO players because of the console variable).

    If you like to gamble your money in that way so be it, but considering how dispersed the demographics are I do not believe the overlap is anywhere near as close as you think it is. Especially when you consider how much better the TES games sell on console for example, or the very reasons why players play mmos in the first place (you know that whole other player thing) versus a single player game. The point is, judging from inherently flawed polls is hilarious. Or do you want to take polls such as the one from Darthhater showing how awesome Swtor's cash shop is?

    Until there is a sure way of knowing, I'll stick by the "inherently flawed polls" on this site and ESO.  I believe the trend would be very similar - or at least a lot closer than what you're suggesting.  It's not like there is a whole group of people who are totally separate not voting at all, except console users with no computer access.  In large scale surveys they only need to tally 5% of the population to get the results (I believe it's around 5% but it's been a while since my sociological class).

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by sapphen

    Sure those polls, there was also one floating around on the ESO forums.  I still am willing to bet that the trend would be similar if it was on a large scale.  Most MMO players also play TES games because both are on the computer.  TES games do well, therefore I would conclude that most MMO players are TES fans (although most TES fans are not MMO players because of the console variable).

    If you like to gamble your money in that way so be it, but considering how dispersed the demographics are I do not believe the overlap is anywhere near as close as you think it is. Especially when you consider how much better the TES games sell on console for example, or the very reasons why players play mmos in the first place (you know that whole other player thing) versus a single player game. The point is, judging from inherently flawed polls is hilarious. Or do you want to take polls such as the one from Darthhater showing how awesome Swtor's cash shop is?

    Until there is a sure way of knowing, I'll stick by the "inherently flawed polls" on this site and ESO.  I believe the trend would be very similar - or at least a lot closer than what you're suggesting.  It's not like there is a whole group of people who are totally separate not voting at all, except console users with no computer access.  In large scale surveys they only need to tally 5% of the population to get the results (I believe it's around 5% but it's been a while since my sociological class).

    Its not size, but where its being polled from that is the bias. You can take the same poll at either the DNC or RNC and end up with 2 diametrically opposed viewpoints. A poll taken here, or on the Bethesda boards is essentially a poll taken twice, since they are effectively the same source.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    no i will not sign that whinny petition. if you don't like the game don't play it.

    crying about it does you no good, especially at this point in development.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by sapphen

    Until there is a sure way of knowing, I'll stick by the "inherently flawed polls" on this site and ESO.  I believe the trend would be very similar - or at least a lot closer than what you're suggesting.  It's not like there is a whole group of people who are totally separate not voting at all, except console users with no computer access.  In large scale surveys they only need to tally 5% of the population to get the results (I believe it's around 5% but it's been a while since my sociological class).

    Its not size, but where its being polled from that is the bias. You can take the same poll at either the DNC or RNC and end up with 2 diametrically opposed viewpoints. A poll taken here, or on the Bethesda boards is essentially a poll taken twice, since they are effectively the same source.

    The demographic is gamers.  For the poll to be same between here and ESO boards, they both had different results.  Here there was about 85% both, 14% MMO only and 1% TES only.  At the Bethesad boards it was 50% both, 5% MMO only and 45% TES only.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member

    Signed, of course. The lack of real seamless openness may be a mayor reason for fail.

    But, alas, after 2 years fighting in the beta of SWTOR for change, I learned studios are hell bent on THEIR VISION. They never listen. End of story.

     

    So we gonna play another half assed MMO, one or two times through and then off to the next... :(

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,779Member Uncommon
    If the game world isn't seamless and they decided to make it seamless, then for starters, they'd have to redo a ton of artwork to accommodate the quicker loading times needed for a seamless world.  Not going to happen.
  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Signed, of course. The lack of real seamless openness may be a mayor reason for fail.

    But, alas, after 2 years fighting in the beta of SWTOR for change, I learned studios are hell bent on THEIR VISION. They never listen. End of story.

     

    So we gonna play another half assed MMO, one or two times through and then off to the next... :(

    why would they cater to your vision? It's the dev's vision, their game, they make it how they want. They cant tailor to every need of every gamer...especially by the looks of these forums, gamers have no idea what they want.

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  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Yamota

    ESO should be a large seamless world where you should be able to go wherever you want and join whatever faction you want (but obviously with consquences). This locking you into a faction is just rubbish, a copout and goes against the spirit of Elder Scrolls games.

    Will that happen? No, the game is a ThemePark and no ThemePark to date has had a large seamless world where you have the freedom to join whichever side you want (or not at all). ThemeParks are highly controlled game arenas where the developers tell you what you can and cannot do. Easy for them but rubbish as gameplay (imo).

    The entire world design seems to be there to support the PVP aspect of the game (large scale), it's a copout for PVP design I guess but anything else? I don't see it.

    I think it is also an important distiction to cite that this is not another TES game. It is a game using the setting but trying to do it's own thing (inspired by not just TES titles, it's also inspired by the genre it's seeking to enter).

    Should it be it's own game or copy the SP games? That's a question I don't think I can answer, I'll just say if it keeps players happy it did what it was trying to.

    I can't say it's like DAOC until I try it, as GW2 sounded like it as well, as did TSW, yet they did not have that feel when playing.

     

    If Zenimax had said that they wanted to make a new game out of the genre, like the transition of Warcraft into World of Warcraft it would be very true what you say, however they said that they wanted to bring everything we loved with Elder Scrolls and make it an MMO. They are also having second thoughts with pickpocketing. If only they added a penal system into the game they could solve most problems. In which you lose maybe 20 points of progress instead of 1 or 2 or that you level down half a level for trying to steal.

    That would actually work fine within the game, especially if that experience was rewarded to the player you attempted to steal from.

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asrloh

     

    If Zenimax had said that they wanted to make a new game out of the genre, like the transition of Warcraft into World of Warcraft it would be very true what you say, however they said that they wanted to bring everything we loved with Elder Scrolls and make it an MMO. They are also having second thoughts with pickpocketing. If only they added a penal system into the game they could solve most problems. In which you lose maybe 20 points of progress instead of 1 or 2 or that you level down half a level for trying to steal.

    That would actually work fine within the game, especially if that experience was rewarded to the player you attempted to steal from.

    I've never seen that quote so I didn't consider it when writing what I wrote. If thats true it does negate what I said from a word from the studio point of view, I can still look at it that way personally though :).

    About the pickpocketting thng hadn't heard that either, I'm fairly used to this stuff at this point now (been dealing with it since SWG). I'd expect this type of guidance to be coming from MMO experienced staff on the team. The MMO dev world is full of those who fear allowing players to have a direct ability to meddle into anothers game time. Which is an understandable view from a business perspective I guess, they have just taken it too far IMO. Your idea is a good one btw.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

    no i will not sign that whinny petition. if you don't like the game don't play it.

    crying about it does you no good, especially at this point in development.

     

    Here's the difference between crying and what we're doing. We are actually trying to prevent it, not running up to everyone we see and complain that the game wasn't what we wanted it to be. Atleast we can say we tried, can you say that?

    If you don't agree with the petition, don't sign it. If you agree, sign it. Let me worry about if it gets done or not, alright?

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  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by asrloh

     

    If Zenimax had said that they wanted to make a new game out of the genre, like the transition of Warcraft into World of Warcraft it would be very true what you say, however they said that they wanted to bring everything we loved with Elder Scrolls and make it an MMO. They are also having second thoughts with pickpocketing. If only they added a penal system into the game they could solve most problems. In which you lose maybe 20 points of progress instead of 1 or 2 or that you level down half a level for trying to steal.

    That would actually work fine within the game, especially if that experience was rewarded to the player you attempted to steal from.

    I've never seen that quote so I didn't consider it when writing what I wrote. If thats true it does negate what I said from a word from the studio point of view, I can still look at it that way personally though :).

    About the pickpocketting thng hadn't heard that either, I'm fairly used to this stuff at this point now (been dealing with it since SWG). I'd expect this type of guidance to be coming from MMO experienced staff on the team. The MMO dev world is full of those who fear allowing players to have a direct ability to meddle into anothers game time. Which is an understandable view from a business perspective I guess, they have just taken it too far IMO. Your idea is a good one btw.

    Here you go, lad.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/28/elder-scrolls-online-interview-matt-firor

    He mentions it in there, and I'm kind of bothered by that they are even having second thoughts that they were ready to admit to the public. However it's not written in stone yet so who know? Anyhow, I think they mention their vision with ESO in the interview with Firor but I'm not sure, might be somewhere else.

    Cheers!

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  • Dantae87Dantae87 Camloops, ABPosts: 166Member
    SCREW THI SPETITION! Make one for them to fix there HUGE mistake of not being able to enter oposing faction land! Like whast the point? For me this has made me second guess even looking at this game now since it takes away soooooo much from the actual experience itself of being a explorer and writing your own story. hell i might not even get ESO cuz of this stupid feature.

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  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    From an RP perspective given the lore for the MMO, exploring other zones (enemy territory) wouldn't make sense at all to me. Considering that this is more or less a racial war.

    It is NOT a racial war.

    It is an 'arena of engagement' limited war with strict rules. If were in any way 'all out war' then all regions would be fair game.

    The factions have agreed to limit the conflict to a particular region - this in itself is unrealistic - name one war for an imperial throne which has been so strictly limited and focussed...?

    ... that's right, there isn't one...

    There is no reason they cannot agree to allow visitors from other factions into their territories. For RP purposes - merely have all vendors shut off from visitors and unfriendly or disinterested guard reactions and hey presto - the dungeons and non-war-supporting questlines can be made available to everyone, and every region can be explored.

    This would be no more unrealistic than such a remarkably civilised and limited war...

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by asrlohz
    Originally posted by baphamet

    no i will not sign that whinny petition. if you don't like the game don't play it.

    crying about it does you no good, especially at this point in development.

    There are those who try to change things by being proactive - one should be grateful for them, they sometimes succeed.

    There are those who don't try to change things, thinking they are powerless to do so - a pity, but then every society needs followers...

    ... then there are those who complain that others are trying, and belittle their attempts with comments such as these.

    I guess this proves there are two sides to every bell-curve...

    ... and for clarity, let's just say you are on the LEFT side...

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon

    Well... the whole of Breton land can be seemless, the whole of ebon land can be seamless, the whole of elfland can be seamless and the whole of cyrodill can be seamless - but they should be 4 huge seamless separated zones.

    Imagine this for the WoW concept:

    Kalimdor is seamless. Eastern Kingdoms is seemless and Outland is seamless - but crossing from huge zone to huge zone is not. And it shouldnt be.

    So, if they're using the daoc model then yes your faction land will be seamless untill you reach the border of your realm. The frontiers is another huge seamless zone.

    Try to imagine it in your real life... your country is seamless until you decide to go to New Zealand. The plane is where you zone out - the New Zealand is seamless again.

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  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Well... the whole of Breton land can be seemless, the whole of ebon land can be seamless, the whole of elfland can be seamless and the whole of cyrodill can be seamless - but they should be 4 huge seamless separated zones.

    Imagine this for the WoW concept:

    Kalimdor is seamless. Eastern Kingdoms is seemless and Outland is seamless - but crossing from huge zone to huge zone is not. And it shouldnt be.

    So, if they're using the daoc model then yes your faction land will be seamless untill you reach the border of your realm. The frontiers is another huge seamless zone.

    Try to imagine it in your real life... your country is seamless until you decide to go to New Zealand. The plane is where you zone out - the New Zealand is seamless again.

    Yes, and as I've previously stated I'd settle for that, but if my country is seamless to the country adjacent just like the whole of Tamriel. But aye, I'd be alright with that. However that would lead to people camping the few places where you could enter an enemy territory which is why seamless would make it easier. But aye, I would be alright with that if it allows me to explore the other factions territory.

    Very well constructed post, and I tip my hat in your honor, mate.

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  • ZefireZefire lol, CAPosts: 676Member

    Im not signing to something that requires money.

    If they want to make cyrodil pvp only let them do it and fail.

    I was not expecting anything better from them.

    Furthermore dont fall for this game as it will be another swtor.Im prety sure about that.

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Zefire

    Im not signing to something that requires money.

    If they want to make cyrodil pvp only let them do it and fail.

    I was not expecting anything better from them.

    Furthermore dont fall for this game as it will be another swtor.Im prety sure about that.

    Atleast I can say that I tried, can you?

    Also it doesn't require money to sign the petition if that is what you are getting at. And if the players are displeased with the game they will make the money back that it requires them to adjust the game.

     

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  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member
    Originally posted by asrlohz
    Originally posted by Zefire

    Im not signing to something that requires money.

    If they want to make cyrodil pvp only let them do it and fail.

    I was not expecting anything better from them.

    Furthermore dont fall for this game as it will be another swtor.Im prety sure about that.

    Atleast I can say that I tried, can you?

    Also it doesn't require money to sign the petition if that is what you are getting at. And if the players are displeased with the game they will make the money back that it requires them to adjust the game.

     

    what did you try? you wanted developement of something close to 5 years in the making to suit yours, and a minorities, view of the game. People are entitled, if they are spending their own money, to make a product (any product) which they envision.

     

    You are not going to please everyone no matter how hard you try. I dont care if its first person, 3rd person, seamless, zoned, etc....if the game is fun and enjoyable, that is all that matters to me. If its not fun for me, i move along. Sure i might have lost the cost of purchase, but outside of that, i dont lose anything.

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  • sodade21sodade21 athensPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    so basicaly the only pvp will be in one big map like it is now for GW2? No open world pvp? or at least pvp on and off in the whole world?? that sucks and take all the immersion and "fear" feeling away...
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