Originally posted by Fearum The only way to make dungeons not a res-run is to make some kind of trinity or increase healing by a lot, then you run into PvP issues and how they have everything else set up. They kind of worked themselves into a corner in how they designed the classes and are limited into what they can do now.
Or you can learn your class and stop going glass cannon and get a bit of toughness ( not saying you play glass cannon )
The classes have many different ways to be played with the trait system.
Originally posted by Fearum The only way to make dungeons not a res-run is to make some kind of trinity or increase healing by a lot, then you run into PvP issues and how they have everything else set up. They kind of worked themselves into a corner in how they designed the classes and are limited into what they can do now.
i dont know how easy it is,
but in GW1 anet tackled the problem by making the same skills less effective in PVP
a lovely patch - it shows how many people actually have NO IDEA how to play.
They dont know how to dodge (no, dodging is not pressing the dodge button while sipping a warm beer in Hoelbrack), they have no idea how combos work, they do not rez (and yes, you could try rezzing one of the gazillion dead npc's out there - would take you erm ... 1 minute?), they tanked dungeons with money till now (meh, ill just run in again and pay the repairs - or wait! im a gud player, i ran in naked!!11).
its unbelievable, but fun. makes you feel better.
and this: pls l2p (no it cant get old, its a fact.)
whats not so funny: they have the cochones to voice their "opinion" on a great patch ...
Never played the game, but always take an opportunity to bash it because watching someone go into an all caps rhetorical metldown like a helicopter with its rear rotor shot off is more fun than the game could ever be.
Originally posted by Scalpless Uh, you actually think waypoint zerging made dungeons more fun?
The problem was not the waypoints. the problem is that dungeon combat is a chaotic clusterf--- in which you die so often that it simply made more sense to run back than to wait for a rez. They are not fixing the real problem, just the symptom.
Originally posted by Scalpless Uh, you actually think waypoint zerging made dungeons more fun?
The problem was not the waypoints. the problem is that dungeon combat is a chaotic clusterf--- in which you die so often that it simply made more sense to run back than to wait for a rez. They are not fixing the real problem, just the symptom.
this is true for groups who have no clue whats going on.. it's called a learning curve(people were bypassing the learning curve by spawn point rushing)...unlike most other MMOs GW2 doesn't ease you into the dungeons... you can watch youtube videos of groups taking out every story/explorable mode dungeon in the game without a single wipe or spawn point rush.
My main issue with dungeons is boss fights take to long.. but sounds like they are working on that as part of the dungeon revamp
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Most dungeons are pretty easy if your group has a general idea of what they should be doing. I've completed half of them with PUGs without waypoint zerging. Of course, most PUGers seem to have no idea at all and just try to HB tank bosses with their glass cannon builds.
It's just funny how you look down on this game and while you think it requires no skill to play you can't even time your dodge right. Other people have no problem with it, so do I.
So if this killed the game for you, drop it. Sell your account. Don't play anymore and you'll be happy.
How can one call a dungeon (encounter) boring if they have to zerg it? I can see how some people would call it boring who are doing them without dying while having their monitors turned off or their hands tied to their back. But if you have to zerg dungeons/encounters something is definitely not working right.
I can see why you have to zerg it if you (and your groups?) have problems getting the dodge daily done. You should train how to time your dodges right and you will make a big step into less zerging. Also try to dodge double tapping a movement key to dodge into that direction (sidestepping is very useful).
They mentioned later being a caster so I can see dodging less that way if you fight mostly at range. With my Ranger I had to work a little longer at completing the dodge as well since it's usually my pet doing the dodging. When I'm working on the dodge completion now I just try to do one good/obvious attack dodge per fight and don't mind it taking 15 fights to complete.
Someone already mentioned for the rez completion go somewhere with lots of dead NPCs and rez. Doesn't have to be player rezzing. Gendarren fields and some other centaur areas have many rezzable NPCs to to do. If it isn't crowded with players theres one area in Gendarren fields (where the heart reward is for helping such NPCs to the field hospital) where you can finish that in about 1-2 minutes.
sure not as I'm an idiot=D sorry for my English, it my 5th language. I don't hate GW2, I just find it not good enough to be great game. Example: GW1 used to be a great game(s)
Sorry if you took it as me implying you were an idiot because I wasn't. I have read enough of your remarks to know English is not your native language and the guy I quoted was being sarcastic. I really did get a good laugh out of it and hope there was no hard feelings even though the mods felt the need to delete it. It wasn't a miliciaous attack, just an educated guess.
Originally posted by Scalpless Uh, you actually think waypoint zerging made dungeons more fun?
I must admit, may be but not sure or not only. Somehow I find GW2 dungeons mega boring, may be it comes after I was spoiled by nice run of WotLK dungeons, and some more games (what we call WoW clones) which make me feel like dungeon is nice, not too hard, rewardable time pass. yes I remember hard dungeons back to early WoW or even EotN at GW1, but it still was fun.
Here I can't describe what bothers me the most, but I don't feel like fun to do them (I don't mind people who like them). Seems I'm not alone as dungeon achieve is sorta rare and most LFG are about to do CoF, AC or FotM.
I mean if they really wanted to revamp them, they could make more attractive and fun runs. Now if anyone like to wait till all group wipe then run, good for them (many guys had never played any MMO or have idea they all done for slow boring grind). I don't see how w/o resurrection skill (let say we don't have ele or we need to bring ele now?) guys could resurrect anyone died next to mobs, before great update we could already ran half way,instate of wait, but not anymore. If caster survive it's group, he/she will need to suicide to run with all. That will cost more coins to repair and take more time for nothing. I bet if WoW introduce similar system, tomorrow they will get 0 sub. And to resume: Blizzard made too hard dungeons for Cata final zones and lost 4 mil subs. Now and again, if you finished explore, dislike fun less dungeons and not PvP oriented to do WvW (even id it considered as PvE=D), what you gonna do in game?
I don't HATE GW2 as I don't hate any game I've played (I can hate devs though), but why instate bring new content or even make existent more attractive for non-elitest player, all they find to do is nerf content. So no need to use CAP and post something like: "please don't hate my game". Even if you like it doesn't mean it great game and no need to be improved. I got similar issue when posted constructive criticism about runescape (did twice in 2 different periods, was right twice) and WoW Cata (was right too), and got all rotten tomatos from overexcited fans. Result: game lost popularity and played base, fans started to quite too as it's not fun to play alone.
P.S. thanks for dodge tip, I saw it too, so not all or each time count but only when you have message "EVADE", pretty silly, sorry to tell.
This is absolutely not how you write constructive criticism, if you ever hope to have readers view your slather of b-rate berating as anything more than a troll post than you might want to compose yourself first.
Anyways as for difficulty, I don't quite understand why people are complaining about difficulty. They've effectively went through every dungeon encounter and retuned them for this balance change, essentially all dungeons have been set to super casual in order to make sure players don't get frustrated with certain older mechanics.
Also, one more question: Why are any casuals attacking developers that have just given them an option to earn THE BEST gear in the game by doing dailies. If there has ever been a group of parasites that has destroyed any industry it would be the whiney worthless casuals that quit immediately something doesn't go exactly the way they want it to go.
The only thing that this patch has done that has bothered me is the Jade Maw wall at level 50, which now has an unavoidable agony application that ticks for 1172% of your health per second.
Anyways as for difficulty, I don't quite understand why people are complaining about difficulty. They've effectively went through every dungeon encounter and retuned them for this balance change, essentially all dungeons have been set to super casual in order to make sure players don't get frustrated with certain older mechanics.
Also, one more question: Why are any casuals attacking developers that have just given them an option to earn THE BEST gear in the game by doing dailies. If there has ever been a group of parasites that has destroyed any industry it would be the whiney worthless casuals that quit immediately something doesn't go exactly the way they want it to go.
The only thing that this patch has done that has bothered me is the Jade Maw wall at level 50, which now has an unavoidable agony application that ticks for 1172% of your health per second.
Agreed ^
As far as difficulty goes, personally I think it's been made too easy. But that's just me, and I know other wouldn't agree. Hell, it still baffles me how many people complain about the dredg suit in fractals. 'This is BS!' is what I hear from half the groups I end up running, and yet, most of the time I have literally zero trouble avoiding the guy's attacks, even without agony resistance.
It's like you say though, moose, people will literally whine about anything. Hell, I found it amusing that the OP is complaining about no longer being able to WP zerg dungeons, lol. As if this was somehow a concept completely foreign to all games everywhere. I don't think I've ever played a single group-based game with dungeons, (up until GW2 pre-patch), in which you could literally keep respawning into a boss encounter before it either whiped or finished.
great update happened today.... if this game was not killed yet, I guess it will add coup de grace to it.
1. daily achievements: before we got XP and points for each fraction, like 10 kills, 20 kills etc, now you'll get it only once. Now you need to dodge 20 enemies, so far all my tries got me 0, or it bug or I do something wrong, still it sucks. revive 15 allies is pretty long too.
2. temples: now we need like 3k people to get Grenth done, it was not a joke before, now it just too bad to do for like no rewards. Not sure for other temples, but I bet it similar, beside they were not that popular even before update as it more easy to run outposts / escort events for karma.
3. dungeons: how fun must be wait till we all die and gonna run back all long... what is brilliant social idea! Bravo! beside dungeons were annoying even before + missing finder tool + drop rate continued nerfs = great fun. from many MMO I've played so far, GW2 dungeons were far from my fun pleasant runs, now they became just to avoid.
4. adding new jewelry will kill skill which is not very demanded already, glad I'm done with when it was profitable. but who cares, economy at GW2 is suffer already.
That all I've noted so far, please add more comments.
People who still like it seems to love any grind etc, so I respect their choice and good luck for them to stay alone at GW2.
I keep asking me why ANet killing game they make, especially feel sorry for GW1 as they were very fun game, before some "nice" updated killed them. And here we go again....
I guess GW2 is now one more game I gonna visit time to time, while playing something fun.
your first point is long gone since it changes every day what you have to do and they've changed it to 1 tier so you can actually know how many you need to obtain/kill/heal/dodge/run/etc. in order to get it done, it was demanded and you didn't get anything if you got 1/5 tiers besides the note that you're 1/5 done.
template of the grenth was hotfixed 1 hour and 30 mins ago to adjust it.
dungeons aren't intended to be "dead respawn runners in order to succeed".. If you died you should learn from your mistakes and get it right next time... If my group dies in dungeons it's usually because we did something wrong, you shouldn't die-rez-run in dungeons because they aren't meant to be done that way.
they added ascended jewlry in order to give people a chance of getting those jewlry even if they're not running fractals of the mists... They cost laurels and since you get laurels out of daily achivements it takes quite a bit for you to get 1 single jewlry that way :P so I don't see a problem there since casual players are given the option to get the best gear atm trough dailies...
This is the best update so far and everything they're planning on doing next sounds great as well...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
It's just funny how you look down on this game and while you think it requires no skill to play you can't even time your dodge right. Other people have no problem with it, so do I.
The issue appears to be that a lot of people dodge "too early" and thus, though they actually are dodging damage successfully, the game doesn't register it as a 'proper dodge'.
One could argue that they're being penalized for too much skill, not too little.
Presumably the detection code can be tweaked to catch that. One of those (many) things a PTR would have been helpful with.
Also, one more question: Why are any casuals attacking developers that have just given them an option to earn THE BEST gear in the game by doing dailies. If there has ever been a group of parasites that has destroyed any industry it would be the whiney worthless casuals that quit immediately something doesn't go exactly the way they want it to go.
As a casual gamer, I take offense to that statement. I don't want a great separation between characters because of amount of time available to invest, and all casual gamers that I know feel the same way. There isn't one that would say any different.
I think it's clear that Laly is not casual, or hardcore and therefore deserves a new classification.
So what classification would denote a person that feels the game they play is a lie?
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly
I keep this game as "in case" and "when nothing else".
What type of classification would complain about the game being both too difficult and too easy in the same post?
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly
...Now you need to dodge 20 enemies, so far all my tries got me 0, or it bug or I do something wrong, still it sucks. revive 15 allies is pretty long too...
...adding new jewelry will kill skill which is not very demanded already ...
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by Fearum The only way to make dungeons not a res-run is to make some kind of trinity or increase healing by a lot, then you run into PvP issues and how they have everything else set up. They kind of worked themselves into a corner in how they designed the classes and are limited into what they can do now.
How about people actually L2P?
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly
found what was problem with dodge: you need to cast it in 1 precise moment - just before take a hit, as caster I always fight on retreat so never really dodge, sorry to be noob etc.
I think res and run dungeons are not FUN at all either if you run alone or wait for whole group to join you. I still don't think why it was great to make people wait for wipe then res, sorry again I guess I'm too noob for greatness of this game and fun of these dungeons. Or may be idea was to buy and use instant res from item shop?
I saw like 12 people 1 hit at Grenth and still don't see why they even do it, sorry I can't get this fun and don't see great rewards.
I wanted to make this game better for it can last longer. But seems it so great already, and most of people here enjoy pretty much constant nerfs from release, poor content and annoying dungeons. I guess I'll leave you all alone as I'm about to get few more games now, so I think jumping game GW2 will be safe from me.
Just let you know, in 1 guild I joined we have like max 30/247 people per day on weekends, so mans may be 50 keep playing till now. My second guild was small, only like 40 guys, now like 5 still here...
I believe it because this game is great and fun, no need to be improved and we all love it pretty much.
1. You see, it needed a bit of thought and practice and you now see it works 100% of the time Anyway, its good practice. I got it done in 1 champion fight (3 people involved)
2. People will have to L2P, just how you had to learn to dodge.
3. As far as ive seen Grenth has been "fixed"
4. Now you have all the learning of doing dungeons without zerg rezzing to do ;P
5. Game needs lot of improvment, but in right places. Crying about no trinty aint going to improve anything for instance
Originally posted by KhinRunite It's just funny how you look down on this game and while you think it requires no skill to play you can't even time your dodge right. Other people have no problem with it, so do I.
The issue appears to be that a lot of people dodge "too early" and thus, though they actually are dodging damage successfully, the game doesn't register it as a 'proper dodge'.
One could argue that they're being penalized for too much skill, not too little.
Presumably the detection code can be tweaked to catch that. One of those (many) things a PTR would have been helpful with.
This is exactely right. You are actually not "super 1337" if you are getting credit for the dodge daily easily. You are dodging really late which will get you killed sooner or later. They need to adjust dodge to give credit in a different range. Also the requirement for killing blows in order to get credit needs to be adjusted (especially for the veteran mob requirement). I see this daily requiring a large amount of wasteful travel, for people that typically play in Orr.
I also imagine they will adjust dungeons now that you cant die anymore. I think they said they will in a coming update.
I agree with the OP that this patch has really killed GW2. For me it was the addition of the Daily requirement to do a combo with an ally. I am a die hard solo player. I hate forced grouping and this new requirement does just that. I enjoyed my 5 months with GW2 and still think it is a great game but me - I quit an hour after the new patch was released and do not intend to return.
Originally posted by tordurbar I agree with the OP that this patch has really killed GW2. For me it was the addition of the Daily requirement to do a combo with an ally. I am a die hard solo player. I hate forced grouping and this new requirement does just that. I enjoyed my 5 months with GW2 and still think it is a great game but me - I quit an hour after the new patch was released and do not intend to return.
Comments
Or you can learn your class and stop going glass cannon and get a bit of toughness ( not saying you play glass cannon )
The classes have many different ways to be played with the trait system.
i dont know how easy it is,
but in GW1 anet tackled the problem by making the same skills less effective in PVP
EQ2 fan sites
Joined - July 2004
The problem was not the waypoints. the problem is that dungeon combat is a chaotic clusterf--- in which you die so often that it simply made more sense to run back than to wait for a rez. They are not fixing the real problem, just the symptom.
All die, so die well.
this is true for groups who have no clue whats going on.. it's called a learning curve(people were bypassing the learning curve by spawn point rushing)...unlike most other MMOs GW2 doesn't ease you into the dungeons... you can watch youtube videos of groups taking out every story/explorable mode dungeon in the game without a single wipe or spawn point rush.
My main issue with dungeons is boss fights take to long.. but sounds like they are working on that as part of the dungeon revamp
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You make me like charity
It's just funny how you look down on this game and while you think it requires no skill to play you can't even time your dodge right. Other people have no problem with it, so do I.
So if this killed the game for you, drop it. Sell your account. Don't play anymore and you'll be happy.
How can one call a dungeon (encounter) boring if they have to zerg it?
I can see how some people would call it boring who are doing them without dying while having their monitors turned off or their hands tied to their back.
But if you have to zerg dungeons/encounters something is definitely not working right.
I can see why you have to zerg it if you (and your groups?) have problems getting the dodge daily done. You should train how to time your dodges right and you will make a big step into less zerging.
Also try to dodge double tapping a movement key to dodge into that direction (sidestepping is very useful).
They mentioned later being a caster so I can see dodging less that way if you fight mostly at range. With my Ranger I had to work a little longer at completing the dodge as well since it's usually my pet doing the dodging. When I'm working on the dodge completion now I just try to do one good/obvious attack dodge per fight and don't mind it taking 15 fights to complete.
Someone already mentioned for the rez completion go somewhere with lots of dead NPCs and rez. Doesn't have to be player rezzing. Gendarren fields and some other centaur areas have many rezzable NPCs to to do. If it isn't crowded with players theres one area in Gendarren fields (where the heart reward is for helping such NPCs to the field hospital) where you can finish that in about 1-2 minutes.
Sorry if you took it as me implying you were an idiot because I wasn't. I have read enough of your remarks to know English is not your native language and the guy I quoted was being sarcastic. I really did get a good laugh out of it and hope there was no hard feelings even though the mods felt the need to delete it. It wasn't a miliciaous attack, just an educated guess.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
This is absolutely not how you write constructive criticism, if you ever hope to have readers view your slather of b-rate berating as anything more than a troll post than you might want to compose yourself first.
Anyways as for difficulty, I don't quite understand why people are complaining about difficulty. They've effectively went through every dungeon encounter and retuned them for this balance change, essentially all dungeons have been set to super casual in order to make sure players don't get frustrated with certain older mechanics.
Also, one more question: Why are any casuals attacking developers that have just given them an option to earn THE BEST gear in the game by doing dailies. If there has ever been a group of parasites that has destroyed any industry it would be the whiney worthless casuals that quit immediately something doesn't go exactly the way they want it to go.
The only thing that this patch has done that has bothered me is the Jade Maw wall at level 50, which now has an unavoidable agony application that ticks for 1172% of your health per second.
Agreed ^
As far as difficulty goes, personally I think it's been made too easy. But that's just me, and I know other wouldn't agree. Hell, it still baffles me how many people complain about the dredg suit in fractals. 'This is BS!' is what I hear from half the groups I end up running, and yet, most of the time I have literally zero trouble avoiding the guy's attacks, even without agony resistance.
It's like you say though, moose, people will literally whine about anything. Hell, I found it amusing that the OP is complaining about no longer being able to WP zerg dungeons, lol. As if this was somehow a concept completely foreign to all games everywhere. I don't think I've ever played a single group-based game with dungeons, (up until GW2 pre-patch), in which you could literally keep respawning into a boss encounter before it either whiped or finished.
your first point is long gone since it changes every day what you have to do and they've changed it to 1 tier so you can actually know how many you need to obtain/kill/heal/dodge/run/etc. in order to get it done, it was demanded and you didn't get anything if you got 1/5 tiers besides the note that you're 1/5 done.
template of the grenth was hotfixed 1 hour and 30 mins ago to adjust it.
dungeons aren't intended to be "dead respawn runners in order to succeed".. If you died you should learn from your mistakes and get it right next time... If my group dies in dungeons it's usually because we did something wrong, you shouldn't die-rez-run in dungeons because they aren't meant to be done that way.
they added ascended jewlry in order to give people a chance of getting those jewlry even if they're not running fractals of the mists... They cost laurels and since you get laurels out of daily achivements it takes quite a bit for you to get 1 single jewlry that way :P so I don't see a problem there since casual players are given the option to get the best gear atm trough dailies...
This is the best update so far and everything they're planning on doing next sounds great as well...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
The issue appears to be that a lot of people dodge "too early" and thus, though they actually are dodging damage successfully, the game doesn't register it as a 'proper dodge'.
One could argue that they're being penalized for too much skill, not too little.
Presumably the detection code can be tweaked to catch that. One of those (many) things a PTR would have been helpful with.
As a casual gamer, I take offense to that statement. I don't want a great separation between characters because of amount of time available to invest, and all casual gamers that I know feel the same way. There isn't one that would say any different.
I think it's clear that Laly is not casual, or hardcore and therefore deserves a new classification.
So what classification would denote a person that feels the game they play is a lie?
What type of classification would complain about the game being both too difficult and too easy in the same post?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
How about people actually L2P?
1. You see, it needed a bit of thought and practice and you now see it works 100% of the time
Anyway, its good practice. I got it done in 1 champion fight (3 people involved)
2. People will have to L2P, just how you had to learn to dodge.
3. As far as ive seen Grenth has been "fixed"
4. Now you have all the learning of doing dungeons without zerg rezzing to do ;P
5. Game needs lot of improvment, but in right places. Crying about no trinty aint going to improve anything for instance
One of the more 'funny' way to get the dodge daily is to go into a WvW, run toward a zerg and dodge.
Yes, you will die.
But you'll dodge the million arrow / fireball / bullet / necro-hand thingy / rainbow unicorns to get it.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The issue appears to be that a lot of people dodge "too early" and thus, though they actually are dodging damage successfully, the game doesn't register it as a 'proper dodge'.
One could argue that they're being penalized for too much skill, not too little.
Presumably the detection code can be tweaked to catch that. One of those (many) things a PTR would have been helpful with.
This is exactely right. You are actually not "super 1337" if you are getting credit for the dodge daily easily. You are dodging really late which will get you killed sooner or later. They need to adjust dodge to give credit in a different range. Also the requirement for killing blows in order to get credit needs to be adjusted (especially for the veteran mob requirement). I see this daily requiring a large amount of wasteful travel, for people that typically play in Orr.I also imagine they will adjust dungeons now that you cant die anymore. I think they said they will in a coming update.
I think npcs also qualify as allies here.
I know. It's an abomination!