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Blergh... I just CAN'T cope with these stories...

13

Comments

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by pioneer08
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Sith Assassin was fun, it was the only char I got to 50 and my first character in game.My other three chars (Trooper, IA, Smuggler) are stuck somewhere between 20-26. Lost motivation to go through all the planets again in pretty much the same order. Will continue my Imperial Agent if they add alternative leveling zones like Age of Conan has. e.g. in Age of Conan I can level each alt in another land, Kithai expansion landscapes, Cimmeria, Aquilonia or Stygia.

    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110509070318/aoc/images/8/8b/Hyboria_Map.jpg

    SWTOR would have to add another 30 planets or so to reach the diversity of AoC.

     

    AoC has been out for almost 6 yrs. It has what three expansion no kidding it may be more diverse than SWTOR. I also play AoC but as my alternate game. People who complain and compare games that have been out for 6+ yrs with multiple expansions to game brand new game I will never understand. AoC did not have the diversity you speak of over 5 yrs ago fyi.

    It was diverse enough on launch 4 years ago, each land had 1-80 landscapes.

    Then adding the Godslayer Expansion and Khitai, with another 20-40 zone and multiple 40-80 zones. Since then, Turan and Dragonspine. 

    But the logical fallacy which gets repeated all the time is "give SWTOR time it´s one year old".

    Seriously, a 200 million $ dollar title like TOR needs to compete with games which were launched TODAY, AND titles launched four years or more ago like AoC, not be smaller, less diverse and with less appealing graphics.

    Seriously have you seen what AoC  looks like today? There is not one in-engine scene from TOR which can compete with this level of graphics:

    set to HD fullscreen for this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEQRwPuq8Rg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF3AqaCQUVA

     

    and woohoo, day/night/weather change too since freakin´ 2008

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH3uqHZva-w

     

    What might happen in 2-3 years from now, no new MMOs will come out because the old ones got so incredibly huge and with lot of mechanics and playfields, no new title could ever be financed -> too risky, too much investment.

    And I don´t think we will ever see a Star Wars MMO again, not in the next 10 years until everyone has a virtual reality tablet or some other crazy next-gen tech...

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • catlanacatlana Houston, TXPosts: 1,677Member
    Originally posted by Incomparable
    I think the stories are fine. I think the problem with trying to enjoy something with prejudgments and expecations is not going for the ride, and trying to steer becuase you are old enough to drive.. The stories are enjoyable and they have their moments, and personally I wish it was handled a bit differently, but its still good story.,

    I liked chapter 2 in my Jedi consular's storyline, but one and three were not to my taste. On the other hand, the Imperial Agent storyline has been a blast all the way through (still on Hoth with my IA). Everyone will have likes and dislikes, but I do think that the Jedi stories were played overly "safe". This is a similiar issue to paladins in the "goody two shoes" makes for boring stories but writers are afraid to go against "canon".

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rednecksith
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Corehaven

    The Jedi storyline is known for being bland and pretty bad as far as I know. 

     

    Agreed, they were bland in the prequels too.  Which is why I busted out laughing at "Order 66" in the theater.  Ahhhh...good times.  Also hilarious?  When Anakin was burned nearly in half.  It was like watching Justin Beiber catch fire.  If only. 

    I almost cried when they issued Order 66 you heartless monster! The pain that Yoda felt...you're cold.

    I laughed as well. I thought Yoda told Anakin to rejoice when someone dies, because they're part of the Force now. Then he gets all sad... hypocrite!

    I hated the Jedi in the prequels. Just cold and sterile, and so detached from their own emotions that they couldn't even teach Anakin how to properly deal with missing his mother. And we all saw how THAT turned out...

    Purging their corrupt, arrogant order from the galaxy was doing civilization a service.

    As far as SWTOR goes, I mostly played the Empire side (finished Agent, other classes to about 30). Agent story was really good, and to me shows exactly why the Sith Empire ultimately loses the war. The others showed a lot of promise as well. I did play a trooper to about 40 and found the story to be mostly just okay.

    I will agree that most of the planetary storylines were pretty amateurish and predictable, and at times tough to slog through to get to the good bits. A shame, really.

    The point was the entire Jedi Order was being murdered. Yoda was feeling that huge disturbance in the force, which was basically the solidification of power to the Dark Side. Not really worth rejoicing over...

     

    And what Jedi are you comparing them to in the original trilogy? Obiwan? Who was pretty much exactly the same personality in the original as in the prequels? Yoda? Again, pretty much the same though a bit senile in the original trilogy.

    It MUST be the absolutely whiney Luke Skywalker you're referring to.

    And actually, it was Anakin Skywalker's EMOTIONS that turned him to the Dark Side. We all saw how that turned out.

    The movies weren't perfect, but I think they were very well portrayed. Mace Windu had an emotional moment, Yoda showed fear at times, and sorrow, and care for Chewbacca! Anakin showed too much emotion. I just don't see where the Jedi were sterile. Yes they certainly showed more emotional constraint than Luke Skywalker, but they were more disciplined.

    image
  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon

    I have played 7 of the class stories all the way through , 2 BH's and seen ( in a group ) the smuggler story. I'm at 41 on one of my smugglers too and one of my Jedi's is at 43. Now if you chose different replies in NPC convos then the dialogue can be very different , especially with light and dark side choices. You may say but the outcome is the same , well that isn't completelly true as you kill or capture certain NPC's and that again changes parts of the story further down the line. The "whole" not liking the jedi's converstions is a little bit hard to understand fully as that is the way jedi's are mostly , very serious and stuck up , maybe you just don't like jedi's in general OP ?

    As for SWTOR having 2 content patches , well without sounding too vulgar or rude or insulting , that's a complete load os B******t , it's had 6 major patches , obviousl all the inbetween small patches have been to correct errors etc and a few other small adjustments.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo
     

    Well it isn't rocket science, but it isn't kindergarden either. SW stories can be told badly. SW stories can have poorly written dialogue. SW stories can have actors who do a poor job with poor dialogue. 

    The prequels were good sw stories told poorly, just as I believe the SWToR stories were told poorly - 

    so no it is not rocket science, but it is at least a university level understanding of literature, language arts, creative writing and film.

    It is thoroughly possible to like SW but not like how some of the cannon was portrayed. I know it is possible, because it is how I and many many others feel.

    Like I said, whether a SW story appeals to you personally is another issue.

    SWTOR stays very faithful to the SW universe and tells a good SW story.

    SIdes, how are you going to write a jedi that isn't 'Luke / Vadar' in a SW story?

    KOTOR2 tried and it is an awesome story except it is a really awful SW story.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by jpnz
     

    Like I said, whether a SW story appeals to you personally is another issue.

    SWTOR stays very faithful to the SW universe and tells a good SW story.

    SIdes, how are you going to write a jedi that isn't 'Luke / Vadar' in a SW story?

    KOTOR2 tried and it is an awesome story except it is a really awful SW story.

     

    I agree. Thhe game portrays the jedi exactly as they are in the movies. In the original trilogy the only jedi you saw was Obi Wan and Yoda, two decript old men living in BFE, and Luke who doesn't become one until the end of the final movie. The prequals, for all their falses, fleshed out the entire jedi and showed how they really were, which was basically monks with special abilites. 

    I haven't done the Jedi consular , but IMO the jedi knight was one of the best stories in the game. Very well constructed with surprises that you couldn't see coming(one of your companions is the emperor's child) and it all culminates with a showdown between  you and the emperor. Doesn't get any more epic than that.

    Far as personality, my jedi had plenty of it. He killed people that really deserved it, boned his companion and was very rebellious. It's not the game's fault that some of you chose to play the jedi boring. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Corehaven

    The Jedi storyline is known for being bland and pretty bad as far as I know. 

     

    Agreed, they were bland in the prequels too.  Which is why I busted out laughing at "Order 66" in the theater.  Ahhhh...good times.  Also hilarious?  When Anakin was burned nearly in half.  It was like watching Justin Beiber catch fire.  If only. 

    I thought Jar Jar Binks was the comic relief in the new trilogy?  Though it was bad comedy.

    image
  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,044Member Uncommon
    I am not playing right now, I'm stuck at level 47 and just have trouble sticking with it due to the static feel of the world..but the story was never my issue as a Jedi Knight. However, when I think about other games, like the cheesy piece of crap story from GW2 made for 12 years olds, when I do venture back to this game I always appreciate the story more. I mean, its like the only game I actually care anything about the story since LOTRO. Rift, WOW, GW2, AOC, Warhammer, AION, etc...the story sucked, you get a dialogue box and ignore it. This is way better than that. Regardless, an opinion is an opinion so I have to respect yours even if you pretty much are negative about 95% of the time.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    I am leveling Jedi Knight right now and I think that leveling DS is a lot of fun... though as Empire fan, I try to save all my fellow sith so sometimes I have to be good... sigh. Trying to stay DS on this toon, though I rather pick convos that make sense to me and my character. I am going to level LS JK later on... anyway to see how it feels. So far my absolute favorite is LS IA and LS Sith Warrior, though I also enjoyed very much DS Sith Inquisitor. LS Consular is pretty bland, I am going to check later how DS looks like.

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    Sith Warrior. Female (due to voice acting). Be as mean and angry as you can be. Hilarity ensues.

    I love the Agent story, but just for kicks, nothing beats the above.

    On Republic side, almost no good stories. Best would be the Smuggler.

     

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    I find that its less the stories themselves, cause they aren't that bad. Its character development, its so... basic. the only character you get that doesnt feel like they are cut out of cardboard is the PC. and even they have their moments. I guess ive been Spoiled by Tornquist, His writing is just soo much better.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadOrb

    I have played 7 of the class stories all the way through , 2 BH's and seen ( in a group ) the smuggler story. I'm at 41 on one of my smugglers too and one of my Jedi's is at 43. Now if you chose different replies in NPC convos then the dialogue can be very different , especially with light and dark side choices. You may say but the outcome is the same , well that isn't completelly true as you kill or capture certain NPC's and that again changes parts of the story further down the line. The "whole" not liking the jedi's converstions is a little bit hard to understand fully as that is the way jedi's are mostly , very serious and stuck up , maybe you just don't like jedi's in general OP ?

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    image

    Looking at what I believe Jedi would be like. I though the JC story was what I expected. I liked the story, playing as a LS Jedi would play. I have gone back and am playing a JK now as a DS Jedi. And even though I am still a Jedi and want to help the Republic. I have different ways of going about it with my DS choices. Has been fun for me so far. The fun you have is based on how you play and your expectations. This type of play isn't for everyone.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by Bossalinie

    But it did have C3P0...which original fans refuse to admit he was just as bad as binks

    A different breed of idiot.

    C3PO is closer to the funny gay butler, compared to the entertainment for five year olds that Jar Jar provides.

    Of course they are both bumbling idiots that trip over everything...

    Hmm...well I didn't see any difference between Jar Jar swinging on a droid turret and C3PO small-step-shuffling wall to wall between trooper barrage on Leia's ship...but that's just me. The 5 year olds laughed and called them both stupid...

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Incomparable
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz

    SWTOR stays very true to Star Wars actually.

    Which is why it is a good Star Wars story. Whether you like Star Wars story or not is personal preference.

    There are huge differences between being true to Star Wars and good story telling.

    These were stories, true to Star Wars lore, told badly.

    Your statement reads like, 'if you don't like these stories, you don't like star wars' and I  have one response to that;

    Do you love star wars stories?

    How did you feel about the Phantom Menace?

    Sometimes Star Wars stories can be told badly.

    Considering the prequels are actual SW stories, yes I liked them.

    Course I loved EP4-6 more but I like all SW stories.

    If you don't like the prequels, you don't like SW stories since the prequels are actual official SW stories. This isn't rocket science.

    Well it isn't rocket science, but it isn't kindergarden either. SW stories can be told badly. SW stories can have poorly written dialogue. SW stories can have actors who do a poor job with poor dialogue. 

    The prequels were good sw stories told poorly, just as I believe the SWToR stories were told poorly - 

    so no it is not rocket science, but it is at least a university level understanding of literature, language arts, creative writing and film.

    It is thoroughly possible to like SW but not like how some of the cannon was portrayed. I know it is possible, because it is how I and many many others feel.

    Its also meant to entertain a large audience. So its not going to use complex wording, which I have no problems enjoying along with complex story which may feel like a puzzle. However, almost anything can feel cliche since its has been done before. The only way to not be cliche is either keep it simple or really go big in some way, which can make the game feel like its directed towards a niche market.

    Not to put you in the spot, but if you thought of an outline of an alternative story for the jedi, do you think others would think it is better than the outline of the existing story of the jedi , for example, in swtor?

    The point is that people have their own ideas, and dont like storytelling, and rather tell the story or maybe are just accustomed to a specific style of story. So you say others agree with you, but maybe its not so much so the story but a story told in a game that is not enjoyable for you?

    So... think about the outline idea, and how it might make you realize that point.

    I didn't have a problem with the outline of the stories though.....I had problems with the delivery. 

    So, I'll use an example from the consular story to illustrate what I mean.

    The outline;

    Your master gets sick.

    You are compelled as a character to help her.

    You stumble on a dark plot which may take over/destroy/incompacitate the jedi order

    You feel compelled to reveal this larger story.

    - That's a good star wars story outline - 

    But........

    When your master falls prey to some mysterious illness, did you as a player (i.e. audience)  'feel' worried for her? Were you emotionally invested in the character? Did it seem like if you didn't make the right choices she wouldn't survive? Would you have actually cared if she did or didn't? If they killed her off would your jaw have dropped? Would you feel shocked?

    One of the first lessons of engaging storytelling is not to 'tell' them how they 'should' feel, but rather to 'make' them feel the emotion you want to convey. Over and over and over, we were told 'you care about her'. The never once 'made' me care about her.

     Since the storywriting didn't actually make me feel invested in the characters and its outcome, I could not have cared less about her - and the main thrust of the story was that 'I' the jedi consular, was supposed to be invested in solving the problem - yet in reality,  I was not. 

    They took a good outline and executed it poorly. 

    Here are two other examples to illustrate the point.

    1. Watch Bakshi's animated Lord of the Rings. Now watch Peter Jackson's. Exact same outline. Which was better storytelling, and why?

    2. Read Game of Thrones or even watch the first season, if you haven't. There will be a point (unless someone spoiled it for you) where something happens which makes most people drop their jaw in utter surprise (actually there are several - but one in particular which would be tantamount to telling someone what rosebud was in Citizen Cane or revealing the end of 6th sense). The main reason your jaw drops - is because the author spent the entire book investing you in its characters. You cared about them. Never once did they tell the reader 'this is a character you care about'. The characters said things and did things that made me care about them.  In SWToR,  the story didn't invest me in the characters, the story told me, 'hey, you should be invested in these characters'. This is the poorest of choices a creative writer can make, and one that should be stamped out by the time you exit a Creative Writing 101 class.

    And I'll leave with this final thought:

    IF: I don't like star wars stories because I don't like prequals.

    IF: I don't like star wars because I thought SWToR had bad storytelling.

    THEN: I ask, have you seen the Star Wars Holiday special

    Are you going to hold yourself to the same standard you are holding me to? And if you're response is, 'the holiday special' isn't canon - the game (and other SW games)  acknowledge, even celebrate Life Day right? Guess where it came from. 

    FINALLY: I ask, if you like the originals more than the prequals - guess what - there is a reason, you've just admitted some Star Wars stories are told better than others, and thus you like them more. So inadvertantly, you just made my entire point.

     

     

     

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    If you don't like the stories in SWTOR then you should just erase it from the machine. There is nothing else to this game besides the class stories.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    If you don't like the stories in SWTOR then you should just erase it from the machine. There is nothing else to this game besides the class stories.

    I did.

    But aren't I suppose to ignore you? /wink

     

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,646Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zorgo

    I didn't have a problem with the outline of the stories though.....I had problems with the delivery. 

    So, I'll use an example from the consular story to illustrate what I mean.

    The outline;

    Your master gets sick.

    You are compelled as a character to help her.

    You stumble on a dark plot which may take over/destroy/incompacitate the jedi order

    You feel compelled to reveal this larger story.

    - That's a good star wars story outline - 

    But........

    When your master falls prey to some mysterious illness, did you as a player (i.e. audience)  'feel' worried for her? Were you emotionally invested in the character? Did it seem like if you didn't make the right choices she wouldn't survive? Would you have actually cared if she did or didn't? If they killed her off would your jaw have dropped? Would you feel shocked?

    One of the first lessons of engaging storytelling is not to 'tell' them how they 'should' feel, but rather to 'make' them feel the emotion you want to convey. Over and over and over, we were told 'you care about her'. The never once 'made' me care about her.

     

    Sadly due to its MMO nature I fear it was more of a lack of time thing than anything else... it probably would've been much better if she had at least been your mentor throughout Chapter 1 before falling sick, maybe even one that travels with you on your space ship for a while (much like Anakin and Obi-Wan often traveled together).

    But yeah, most of the NPCs suffer from this lack of personal investment.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Star CItyPosts: 294Member

    In SWG you made your own stories.

    'Nuff said tbqfh.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    For SWTOR they are  as good as they get, but I don't think stories like this really suit a MMO well, and should stick with single player games, maybe with co-op like Lego Star Wars

    In Mass Effect 3 they had multiplayer but the main story was not.

    The stories in SWTOR were mainly single player focussed, and commented as if you were the only one. One person in a cutscene, said "Get him, he's only one person" Not true, I was grouped with a friend so there was 2 of us. Comments like that lose the immersion when playing with others.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    Play as a jugg.....

    Darth Baras is a pretty cool character, I have lots in common with him.  I hated when you had to kill him, such a sad moment.

    image

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Play as a jugg.....

    Darth Baras is a pretty cool character, I have lots in common with him.  I hated when you had to kill him, such a sad moment.

    I liked him until he betrayed me and tried to have me killed. After that I wanted to kill him. Plus his sniveling and whining at the end made ending his life so much more enjoyable. :)

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Play as a jugg.....

    Darth Baras is a pretty cool character, I have lots in common with him.  I hated when you had to kill him, such a sad moment.

    I liked him until he betrayed me and tried to have me killed. After that I wanted to kill him. Plus his sniveling and whining at the end made ending his life so much more enjoyable. :)

    It is definately good to hear that some people could get invested in their characters; I simply couldn't. 

    Since the stories were just one of my issues with this game, I doubt I'll re-install just to try a jugg.....

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Dark Side is always cooler in games. It usually gets much more love. Most devs don't invest much into light side.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    If you don't like the stories in SWTOR then you should just erase it from the machine. There is nothing else to this game besides the class stories.

    I did.

    But aren't I suppose to ignore you? /wink

     

    hehe :)  I'm thinking making that name up while drunk was a bad idea.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    I started to play Sith Warrior, yeah the story is much better.

    Still, planet quests still are often dubious, but even here Empire is better. But... I am hitting Taris now, and it feels like a brick wall. With so few people making WZs now and low XP from WZs and PVP... I am not sure I will play further. Taris is SO SO SO horribad. XD

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

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