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Should This Really Be Considered An MMO That's "In-Development?"

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Comments

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,241Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by umcorian

    I'll certainly give props to Square Enix for recognizing how poor this game was on release and basically wanting to take it offline and do it properly. Despite that, I'm a little confused as to why MMORPG.com is putting this game "under development" along with other up and coming games in 2013. From what I've seen, it seems like the only thing that's really changing in this game's combat is speeding up and getting a user interface that doesn't look and act like garbage. Isn't that something on the scope of a big patch rather than a re-release?

     

    IMHO, the game has already been developed. Not enough is changing for this to be considered a new title, starting with no character wipes. If you buy this "in development" game on its "launch day," you're going to see extremely powerful characters from 2010. There's really no difference from a new player standpoint from buying this game and buying a game that's been on the market for 1-2 years. The economy is also going to be extremely top-heavy, encouraging players to sell whatever can be used by higher level players rather than use them to progress personally... which kinda sucks for a game that originally marketed itself with one of the most engaging, diverse crafting systems ever created.  

     

    I think it's pretty misleading and ingenious to put this on the same list as ArcheAge, The Elder Scrolls Online or any of the others competing for hype. 

     

    Not exactly going to lose sleep over this, but this just doesn't seem right. It's the same game that got its shot in 2010. If there was a list for "expansions in development," I could see this being put on that list, but when this thing hits the market, it's going to be no spring chicken and new characters are going to start well-behind characters who played this "in development" game back in 2010... so I'm not sure giving it the same weight as legitimate up-and-coming MMOs is appropriate. 

    Read all this info then tell me it shouldn't be said that its under development  All FFXIV:ARR INFO can be found here New Letter From Producer 1-23-13

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    You miss the point ffxiv was the name of V1 , V1 is no longer playable , you can't log on it is gone forever . A new game called ffxiv a realm reborn is the new game . A expansion is content you add on to a functional game. FFXIV V1 is NOT a functional game. Some things are similar but ultimately it is a different game .

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  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    You miss the point ffxiv was the name of V1 , V1 is no longer playable , you can't log on it is gone forever . A new game called ffxiv a realm reborn is the new game . A expansion is content you add on to a functional game. FFXIV V1 is NOT a functional game. Some things are similar but ultimately it is a different game .

    Okay, but come launch of this "new game", every minute you spent developing your character from the old, no-longer playable game carries over, doesn't it? My question is should this game really appear on the same list as 2013 new releases, when new players are going to begin so far behind the curb? 

    Can you name any other "new game" where this happens? Where characters who essentially participated in a 2 year long beta get to keep everything they had when the "new game" actually launches? 

    Moreover, if this is a "new game", does everyone have to pay the box fee, including vets of the old game? Something tells me no and while that's cool of them to do that, this *really* couldn't make it further from a new game.

    It should not be on the same list as the 2013 new releases. 

  • AmsaiAmsai Montgomery, ALPosts: 88Member Uncommon

    @Umcorian

    I have played this game since the original alpha. Version 1.0 has shut down. Version 2.0 might not be a nre game in the traditional sense, but might as well be. You really need to have been there from the begining to truly appreciate the amount of change from the original terd SE released. But you cant, so I do advise closely reading all the material.

    One of the major changes is a new engine. Thats not something you can just swap out like a router. One of FFXIVs major problems was the original engine, that was so shitty, they could barely get it to function. And was the reason why simple things like LS mamagement, being able to trade or sell more than a a few things at a time, and lag was so horrible. Turns out the old enhgine wasnt even designed for an MMO lol.

    The point is that there are so many many changes its practically a new game. I dont even know if I agree with all the changes or some of the end game direction 2.0 is taking, but thats another argument.

    Let me explain it this way: Assume FFXIV 1.0 is a building that needed to be condemned. SE could demolish the building and then remove all the old materials from site. Then start a Brand New building with fresh new materials. Instead, what they have done is demolish the building, then built a new foundation. Then used the old materials to rebuild the building, with a new layout.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    Another point your missing is this. V1 was such a failure that SE said we will remake it better. And to save face with the people who stuck with the game we offer you a life time discount we call it legacy status. And we will also save all your data so you can play in the new world. As for brand new players most will come from the PS3 version of the game ( both PC and PS3 Players will play together) V1 never made it to PS3. New players (lvl1) can pick . Server with JUST fresh lvl1s (everyone is a newbee) or pick a server where all the vets are. At launch anyone above lvl 1 will be on a vet server. NOT on a newbee server. The other thing you are not thinking about is never has a company with a utter failure of a MMO ever said sorry we will fix it and do it until SE did it . (Witch they should know how to make a MMO FFXI is on its 10th year) with that said there is no being behind the curve because all new accounts have the option New servers with newbees or vet servers with all vets. And again the Vets don't get that option .

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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by umcorian

    All the info pages don't answer one very simple question: If this is a brand new game, why are there max level characters before release? 

     

    It's pretty straight forward.

    The game that was initially released was more the work/direction of the former head developer. That didn't work out well for a lot of reasons.

    So instead of scrapping everything they decided to allow players to keep the work they've done; though I suspect they will have to tailor their characters to any new changes, and essentially flesh out/alter the game in such a way that they believe it will work better/be more enjoyable.

    As someone having played the original as well as the alpha I can say that the game has a different feeling while still feeling like the same world.

    It's hard to describe and I'm not going into my work in the alpha. but the differences can be felt. Whether one likes the differences or not is a matter of opinion.

    Is it completley brand new? no. Is it still in development? yes. It's as if they looked at the original and said "hey, it needs to cook more and we need to add a few spices/ingredients that weren't in the original as well as "reduce" it a bit to get at the core of what the game is about.

    So yes, it's being further developed and enhanced and shuffled around a bit while still having a strong vein of what went right in the first incarnation.

    I think "new incarnation" fits it very well.

     

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Consider the old game dead and this is a completely new game, set in the same universe as the old one. Yes, it really should be considered as a MMO that is 'in-development'. Since all it shares with the old game is the universe it exists in and some of the design artwork. Even the game engine has been redesigned from the ground up.

    Granted I think the old engine was better, but this new one should give it a wider market.

    So yeah, its a completely new game, using the old name to try and save face.

  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    Another point your missing is this. V1 was such a failure that SE said we will remake it better. And to save face with the people who stuck with the game we offer you a life time discount we call it legacy status. And we will also save all your data so you can play in the new world. As for brand new players most will come from the PS3 version of the game ( both PC and PS3 Players will play together) V1 never made it to PS3. New players (lvl1) can pick . Server with JUST fresh lvl1s (everyone is a newbee) or pick a server where all the vets are. At launch anyone above lvl 1 will be on a vet server. NOT on a newbee server. The other thing you are not thinking about is never has a company with a utter failure of a MMO ever said sorry we will fix it and do it until SE did it . (Witch they should know how to make a MMO FFXI is on its 10th year) with that said there is no being behind the curve because all new accounts have the option New servers with newbees or vet servers with all vets. And again the Vets don't get that option .

    I assure you, I didn't miss that point. I honestly think this is a very poor argument to use to prove to me this is not a new game. I'm not unsympathetic to the fact that even the producers have said V1 was a catastrophy and apologized for it. Nor do I think gving anyone who bought the first game this "legacy status" is a bad idea. But all this is apples and oranges and doesn't make this a new game. 

    The only reasonable point here is the creation of new servers, where all can start on even footing. But a lot of folks - including me - have friends who played V1. I have to choose between playing on a server where everyone starts out with a new game experience or playing with friends and starting 2 years behind the curb. 

    As such, I really don't think this game belongs on the same list as the other 2013 new releases. 

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    Opinions are like assholes everyone has one , or to put it pleasantly to each there own. I think it fit where it should after all the game will be brand new for the ps3 user. Unlike v1. So in that sense it is new. Perspective is a funny thing

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  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by umcorian

    All the info pages don't answer one very simple question: If this is a brand new game, why are there max level characters before release? 

     

    It's pretty straight forward.

    The game that was initially released was more the work/direction of the former head developer. That didn't work out well for a lot of reasons.

    So instead of scrapping everything they decided to allow players to keep the work they've done; though I suspect they will have to tailor their characters to any new changes, and essentially flesh out/alter the game in such a way that they believe it will work better/be more enjoyable.

    As someone having played the original as well as the alpha I can say that the game has a different feeling while still feeling like the same world.

    It's hard to describe and I'm not going into my work in the alpha. but the differences can be felt. Whether one likes the differences or not is a matter of opinion.

    Is it completley brand new? no. Is it still in development? yes. It's as if they looked at the original and said "hey, it needs to cook more and we need to add a few spices/ingredients that weren't in the original as well as "reduce" it a bit to get at the core of what the game is about.

    So yes, it's being further developed and enhanced and shuffled around a bit while still having a strong vein of what went right in the first incarnation.

    I think "new incarnation" fits it very well.

     

    I suppose. Still dubious over the whole "retain character" thing, but I suppose it can't be helped. I am impressed by the scope of the changes and am actually pulling for this title to some extent, even if I probably won't be buying it just given the wealth of tempting new games that are coming out this year. Namely because I hope Final Fantasy 15, 16, 17 or 18... or something... will eventually measure up to Final Fantasy 4 or 6.  

    Better chance of that if they actually don't go bankrupt. :) 

     

    [mod edit]

  • AeolynAeolyn Langley, BCPosts: 208Member Uncommon

    I wasted my money on this game in its first incarnation, I won't be doing it for the second until I see proof that it's even worth playing let alone paying for, and since the only way to get that is to pay and sub for this new "expansion", that won't be happening, especially not after the security breach I had to spend even more hard cash to nullify. 

     

    Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    You do know you get a month free trial right ?

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  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sephiroso
    Originally posted by umcorian

    Could have fooled me. You even have a higher posting count. 

    Didn't bother reading the rest of that. You sound like you're 7. 

    did you really just pull the post count thing? ...i feel bad for even pointing out the reason but i have to because if the ignorant stay ignorant then the world isn't getting any better

     

    Ok i'll keep it simple, since i doubt you can handle anything to intensive.

    1. Look at the year your account was created. Okay?

    2. Look at the year my account was created. Okay?

    3. ??? (what does this ever really mean?)

    4. Logic

    Please don't try to sound intelligent with the way you type. It's... creepy.

    Anyway, I'm all done here. Thanks for the discussion/info on FF14. 

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Tarzana, CAPosts: 1,220Member

    OP people are getting upset because it seems your motives are to twist a knife in an already injured beast. I for one applaud SE for going back to the drawing boards and re-developing the game. Not many games attempt to do that, and try to get a legitimate second chance. The amount of effort alone is enough to warrant my interest in the second launch of this game.

    Anyways, sort of back to the original topic. Perhaps MMORPG.com needs a new category aside from the binary "In-Development" and "Released" statuses. Since FFXIV is attempting something rarely seen, it may be more apt to place it in the "Re-Development" category. Of course this really is a case of semantics, because no one has access to the final product at the moment. It shouldn't matter if there is pre-existing data or not. If it is "in-Development", then by god it is "in-Development"!

  • AeolynAeolyn Langley, BCPosts: 208Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    You do know you get a month free trial right ?

    You do know that means I'd have to buy the "expansion" for about $50 first, right?

  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAPosts: 1,160Member
    Originally posted by umcorian
    Originally posted by Sephiroso
    Originally posted by umcorian

    Could have fooled me. You even have a higher posting count. 

    Didn't bother reading the rest of that. You sound like you're 7. 

    did you really just pull the post count thing? ...i feel bad for even pointing out the reason but i have to because if the ignorant stay ignorant then the world isn't getting any better

     

    Ok i'll keep it simple, since i doubt you can handle anything to intensive.

    1. Look at the year your account was created. Okay?

    2. Look at the year my account was created. Okay?

    3. ??? (what does this ever really mean?)

    4. Logic

    Please don't try to sound intelligent with the way you type. It's... creepy.

    Anyway, I'm all done here. Thanks for the discussion/info on FF14. 

    Awww come on OP don't be like that. I mean i know i threw your own words back in your face in the worst possible fashion(for you, it was funny for me) but you don't have to leave. *sadface*

    image
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  • Br3akingDawnBr3akingDawn a City, CAPosts: 1,356Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeolyn

    I wasted my money on this game in its first incarnation, I won't be doing it for the second until I see proof that it's even worth playing let alone paying for, and since the only way to get that is to pay and sub for this new "expansion", that won't be happening, especially not after the security breach I had to spend even more hard cash to nullify. 

     

    Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

    If you had alreayd bought the original game. Youll get a free month to try it out again when ARR goes live.

    image

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Tarzana, CAPosts: 1,220Member
    Originally posted by Aeolyn
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    You do know you get a month free trial right ?

    You do know that means I'd have to buy the "expansion" for about $50 first, right?

    Adding this to kill rampant misinformation plaguing this thread.

    http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/33824-ffxiv-a-realm-reborn-and-everything-you-need-to-know/

    PART V – FAQ’s & MISC Q&A’s

    Q) Will I have to buy the new game again to play FFXIV:ARR?
    A) No. If you purchased the game before you will be able to download the new client and use your old login information for free.

    Q) Will I be able to use my old account on the new game?
    A) Yes. All content was transferred over as of the final save on November 1st, 2012. If you want to use your old account, you will have to start on an “old” server as opposed to a “new” server.

    Q) What are the “new” and “old” servers? What do they mean?
    A) New servers are where everyone starts from the beginning. There is no transferring of v.1.0 accounts to these servers. Everyone starts from scratch. Old servers allow the transfer of your old account. The reason these are split is in order to maintain balance and fairness for new people who have never been in the game before to have a fair shot at the market and so old players can’t manipulate with their millions of gil they have acquired over the two years.

    Q) Is this game now F2P (Free to play) or still P2P (Pay to play)?
    A) It is P2P with a monthly fee of $12.99 and $9.99 for legacy players. However, everyone who has purchased the game before will have 1 month free time to play to test it out themselves.

    Q) When is Alpha? Beta?
    A) Alpha began late November and is finishing up “end of December.” Beta will begin “late January/early February.” Beta applications will probably go up second half of January and you must have purchased FFXIV v.1.0 to apply.

    Q) When is the release date for FFXIV:ARR?
    A) It was supposed to be Q1 2013 but is now slated for Summer 2013 as it the producer has decided a Q1 release date for the game would be too soon.

    Q) What is “Legacy Status?”
    A) Legacy Status is a status on your account indicating that you played (and paid for subscription) for at least 3 months post Jan. 2011. It was created in an attempt to keep FFXIV v.1.0 players paying and playing while the new game was being made. Legacy players will enjoy paying $9.99 a month instead of $12.99 when subscription fees start. They will also be allowed to create up to 40 characters on their account as opposed to 8 for a regular account.

  • AeolynAeolyn Langley, BCPosts: 208Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Epic1oots
    Originally posted by Aeolyn

    I wasted my money on this game in its first incarnation, I won't be doing it for the second until I see proof that it's even worth playing let alone paying for, and since the only way to get that is to pay and sub for this new "expansion", that won't be happening, especially not after the security breach I had to spend even more hard cash to nullify. 

     

    Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

    If you had alreayd bought the original game. Youll get a free month to try it out again when ARR goes live.

    Argh!  That means I have to decide if I even care enough anymore to download the game again... I guess it will depend on what the competition is at that time.

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 989Member Uncommon

    Extremely simple answer:

     

    YES

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • LadyEupheiLadyEuphei Indianapolis, INPosts: 223Member

    Yours question: 

    shoukd this really be condisered an mmo that is "in development"?

    Answer:

     Yes

    My Question:

    Why is this such a hard subject?

    image

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    OP if you're wondering why you've received such as hostile response I'd advise you to do more research in future before making an assertion that something is incorrect. In your first post you claim that the only thing changing is the combat system yet on this very same forum there is a massive thread detailing a complete overhaul of every system in the game... You kinda asked for this hostility...

    It also doesn't help that this thread appears to have invited a few trolls spreading deliberate misinformation about the game. The mega thread with all the collected info on changes is correct. Any conflicting info on this thread is false.

    To put it bluntly though, yes, this game is 'in development' as the original FFXIV has shut down and this is a new game built from the old assets. Pretty much everything is being changed and many many new systems are being introduced. Character data is transferable in terms of class/job levels, gil and items but those classes and jobs are all being overhauled and items are likely having their stats and effects changed/tweaked so old players will still be returning to find their characters completely different.

    For all intents and purposes the 'new player' servers will be an entirely new game whilst the old servers will be a new game with imported character data...

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Tarzana, CAPosts: 1,220Member
    Originally posted by LadyEuphei

    Yours question: 

    shoukd this really be condisered an mmo that is "in development"?

    Answer:

     Yes

    My Question:

    Why is this such a hard subject?

    Hey shouldn't you be streaming? :)

    But yeah, that is definitely the right question to ask lol.

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