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To me there are the kind of mods that shouldn't be in games and mods that should be in every game.
Raid, "DBM", PVP, macro, etc mods should not ever be allowed. They have nothing to do with making the game more fun or playable.
UI mods should be allowed. With UI I mean the modding of just that, the User Interface. Nothing more or less.
For all I care users create a my little pony UI as long as they can play with it and are happy and doesn't give them a [b]false[/b] sense of having the upperhand over other players because of mod or add-on.
Looking forward to uhh.....playing: Civ 5, Tony Hawk Pro Skater HD
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour Originally posted by thark Originally posted by Theocritus In msot games add ons have no place...Play the game the way it was intended, with skill......
This is how it's suppose to be ...I can't understand or see the reason for Blizzard or any other company to actually support cheat programs like many of those programs are.
I see some answers in this thread saying that addons in needed because it fills the holes/bugs that developers has missed. Sure In some cases valid, but in most cases NOT valid since altering the games pre-made difficulty is cheating.
The other negative side to this is , as evident from this thread ..
It kind of forces players to use "add ons" even thou they may be against them, forced by rude behaviour from your raid group or guild etc - If you don't use these add on's you are NOT welcome here.
Then you must be against wikis, because add-ons are nothing more than interactive efficient wikis.
As for the whole "you are not welcome here" aspect: then perhaps those are not the correct guilds/raid groups for you? Why do you so desperately want to join groups you don't belong to?
Hmm..Well..I disagree..As much as I think it's wrong to use a Wiki page for hints , It's not even close , If players choose to use tips and walktroughs from "EXTERNAL" webpages ..Well then that is up to them and does not effect "my gameplay", sometimes even that can get annoying however , and in the best of worlds I could wish that no player would ever use any such sites either, I can always dream.
As for your last comment, well, things like this spread like a virus and infects everything(almost) it touches..When A thing get's enough common ground in a game community ..It becomes a standard norm.. For many players that means , If I'm not using this or that mod..I will gimp myself towards others that do use them. I myself would rather quit the game then use any such mod. BTW I always play with a tight group of friends to avoid such things, but not even all my friends is immune to the preassure of a huge game community.
The outcome is a game community that forces players to use mods, because they think that if a player is NOT using them they will gimp their play session ..And from my experience it has gone to far in games like WoW, it's almost impossible to avoid it..My solution is to quit, a game full of cheaters is no game worth my time..
Originally posted by jtcgs If it wasnt for addons in the past, your MMORPG today would not have more than HALF the features it has...its the PLAYERS that came up with them. You see that mini map? Orginally an add on. You see that node you want to gather on your mini map? Add on first. You have the ability to move UI windows? Add on. You have more than one skill frame? Add on. Add/remove name plates? Add on. Ability to chose between numbers, percentage or nothing for HP/MP when selecting a mob? Add on Changing chat text size, color? Add on...changing the chat window size? Add on. HAVING MORE THAN ONE CHAT CHANNEL? Yes, an add on was made to actually create a new channel in game... Ability to sort your bags, combine all your bags into one window, auto sell junk loot...add ons. Add ons do nothing but vastly enhance a game, because no company will EVER create a UI that is perfect, nor think of every option that gamers can think of.
Infantry had about half of those things sometime around 2000. And some of the others couldn't have existed in the game because they weren't relevant (e.g., sorting bags makes no sense if you don't have bags). The game didn't allow add-ons, either. When did MMORPG add-ons get their start, again?
That some developers (i.e., Blizzard) can't make a functional UI doesn't mean that no developers could before add-ons.
I've yet to see a wiki that will halfway play the game for you. A wiki might tell you what to do, but it won't do it for you.
Originally posted by bcbully Nice read as usual. Imagine if blizz said "We are breaking DBM." Wow that would be the popcorn thread of the decade. I'm not anti addon, but If a game is designed well, you will never even think about a add-on. Remember that.
The servers would melt down from all of the hysteria... ^^ Not to mention, that without DBM, that a large fraction of the raider types wouldn't have a clue as to how to raid.
Almost as much howling would erupt if they removed gear score or recount... ^^ I've no problem with personal dps meters, but I've seen WAY too many people focused on being on the top of the list, and not nearly enough on the situational aspects.
Both gear score and recount get completely abused by the you must be this 733t to play here crowd for my taste.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Anyone that is freaking and hating on add ons was not around before they were not around or have forgotten what player made add on have done for us. UI is always low on dev list of things to do. But player adds on gave us fixes to things faster then devs can do themselves. Also millions of players making add ons have come up with things we now take for granted. All player firsts, auto dismount when casting, mini maps, quest trackers, team quest trackers, auto loot, bag space orgnizor, junk button to sell all junk, target of target, dual targetting, all player add on first. All MMOs should have player add ons but should be policed to stop add ons that break game play.
The UI's you see today in game releases have been created to emulate what addons were giving us years back. There were some bad addons that automated processes but they were removed.
Addons are basically good at filtering out useless information and presenting the user with pertinant and relavent information. Without addons, I used to find myself staring at buff bars and skill buttons because there wasn't a good way of getting the information about buffs/debuffs or cooldowns prior to some of the good Addons out there. Addons allowed you to pay more attention to the world around you rather than staring at combat logs or skill bars.
There is too much hate levied against Addons mostly from bad information on what they can do and allow now. There are strict rules and the scope of functions are limited if they are found to allow automation or an undesireable effect and we've seen this hundreds of times in WoW.
Originally posted by QuizzicalI've yet to see a wiki that will halfway play the game for you. A wiki might tell you what to do, but it won't do it for you.
some addons are so usefull (power auras in wow for example , tracking dots,procs, buffs ect) i miss this addon in other mmorpgs
I don't care how dependant on Add-ons WoW has made you, any Change to a game that was not put in by the developer, no matter how small or insignificant, is cheating. It doesn't matter if you are just reordering the way information is displayed. Games of all forms are created with a common set of rules. These include the perameters in which the game is presented.
So called "Elite Guilds" inability to complete Raids or High Level Spawns without the use of these Cheat Mods is disgraceful. A Testimate to the rapid decline of the MMO Genre. Any player who relies on third party modification to complete tasks which are supposed to be demonstrations of ability have no right to call themself skilled.
This is just one more bad thing WoW imposed on the world that has had no positive impact.
The number of posters here who assume that no experienced player plays without add-ons is amusing. Not all players use or feel compelled to use add-ons. I've been active in MMO's for over 10 years now (in Wow since the first day) and Daoc, SWG and Shadowbane before that and have never downloaded or installed a mod. I have used both Teamspeak, Skype and Vent but dislike them because for me, voice chat and the casual convo that comes with it takes my focus away from the action.
My personal belief is that if a mod or feature is essential to be competetive in a MMO then it needs to be part of the game code so we're all on an equal playing field. If it's not essential then do without it. If you need cheats to play then maybe you should find a game better suited to your skill lvl. Default or stick with your X-box. Hardcore? Exactly.
I have this add-on called Netflix. It allows me to play different modern MMOs. I just click PLAY, and watch my character do combat and level up while I munch on popcorn. Eventually I get to the end-game though, and move on to find another MMO to play.
It gets awfully boring and dull when it does all the work for me. I miss the days when I actually played my character.
Originally posted by QuizzicalInfantry had about half of those things sometime around 2000. And some of the others couldn't have existed in the game because they weren't relevant (e.g., sorting bags makes no sense if you don't have bags). The game didn't allow add-ons, either. When did MMORPG add-ons get their start, again? That some developers (i.e., Blizzard) can't make a functional UI doesn't mean that no developers could before add-ons.
Asherons Call was FAMOUS for its addons, first add-on I can recall in an MMO was in Meridan 59 back in the mid 90s, the add-on created a guild chat channel...but only those that had it installed could access it. And I dont recall using WoW as an example BTW so you naming Blizzard was pointless same with mentioning games that dont allow add-ons, I had addons for many games that didnt allow them and actively tried to shut them down like SWG and Sony's spyware.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Here's the problem I have with add-ons in MMO's, using WoW as an example.
The WoW dev team knows that all competitive raids/dungeon groups are running various add-ons such as deadly boss mods, etc., so I have to believe they now design at least the more difficult content around that notion. Even fairly casual guilds strongly suggest that you have these add-ons to participate in runs. Players are compelled to go to 3rd party sites, download files which may potentially be malicious, hope that they have the correct version of the add-ons, hope the add-ons are compatible with each other, set up the add-ons using a potentially less than adequate faq/manual, and hope everything works. Then, in the event that you take a break for several months or more, you get to do this all over again, because by then any add-ons you had potentially don't work with the latest patch version of the game. For me, re-setting up the add-ons every time I went back to WoW was just a giant pain in the ass.
I really think that MMO developers need to include any and all potential UI tools into the retail version of the game iteself, or at least have some sort of official add-on database run by the game company.
It's one thing to have single player games which have mods available for them if you'd like to use them, but it's something else entirely when they basically become mandatory for game play in a group setting.