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Hartsman leaving the (sinking?) ship
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/22/scott-hartsman-leaving-trion-worlds/
There you go...
*Edit: And before someone yells that massively is wrong again:
"I wanted to let you know that I'm stepping down from my position here at Trion.
[...]
Scott Hartsman"
Comments
Yes, first the layoffs, now Hartsman "leaving" (while we know what that means in industry-language).
Looks like Bertelsmann Digital Media wasn't too happy about the value of their investment of $85mio.
Good luck to Hartsman. Although Rift lacks the things i like most in mmos, they have always being very agressive with updates. Trion is a good company and i hope Hartsman finds an even better one.
Meanwhile.............. *waits for Rift F2P*
I have been playing Rift again for about a month now. I have had fun and enjoy the content the game offers. Rift is a beautiful game with alot of AAA material in it, but Trion (imo) made quite a few mistakes when it came to changing the game. I use to play the game before because it offered tough content.... they went the way of WoW and gradually nerfed much of it in lower levels, with it safe to say pve content use to be a lot harder across the board. They also made "cross-everything"! There is no need for factions anymore because the Guardians and Defiant share everything. PvP loses some of that banter and bragging rights when Guardians and Defiant fight alongside each other now. Even guilds are not a sacred place to kick it with your faction because they share those now too.
This gamer can say with the greatest of confidence that this is an attempt to overshadow the fact that the population has massively dwindled over the year. They have 8 shards now. that includes oceanic. If you do the math of how many people a server can hold you can figure out the population is very low.
Now with that said, I do enjoy much about the game. The Soul System alone is enough to keep me happy for a while. The world is beautiful and engaging. The combat works and skills have been worked and tuned to be a decent balance (especially in PvP). I have noticed some classes become tough to take down at higher levels, but all in all no class makes a "game changer" in PvP.
I wish Hartman well with whatever his next adventure brings him. I look forward to (more than likely) a F2P model in Rift soon. All in all it is sad that Rift didn't capture the hearts of more gamers. It is much better at what it does than many other MMOs out there. If you haven't tried it yet give it a go.
Obviously you wouldn't take it over WoW because further down in your post you praise all of the new stuff WoW put into MoP. I for one lost interest in WoW after the death of talent trees and panda invasion.
I would take it over WoW because all in all, Rift is a better game for me, i feel that i have more options regarding my character, and I mostly play these games for character development (and sometimes for crafting, but neither WoW or Rift excel at that). At the same time, I find MoP to be a better expansion compared to SL, because MoP actually did bring lots of fresh stuff (and some bad stuff which i do not enjoy), while SL felt just the same for me, no new major things except the new levels. Instant Adventure? We already have Dungeon Finder and some people (not me) find that awful, a "quest finder" for single player play (and sometimes groups, depends on the time of the day) was not needed, really. Instant Adventure is something I ever forgot that existed, like scenarios in MoP, i do not like those either.
I don't know what to make of that. Hartsman was a true fan of his product back when RIFT made release. I still remember him telling a game reporter to go uhm "screw" themself. I didn't agree with everything they did in RIFT but think it was a fine game and I always respected the work the team put in. I hate to read of them struggling even if it wasn't really the game for me. Maybe one day they will go buy to play as free to play would kill what makes their product appealing in the long run (in my opinion.)
I hope Hartsman finds a good spot in the industry somewhere. Nice to see a game made by people that love their games.
Well I looked on hartsman facebook page nothing has changed there in days. Now on linked in it shows him no longer working for trion but working for himself as an problem solving expert. Looks like he will be looking for a new game. Nothing on twitter in fact I guess he does not have a twitter account .
I don't think he stepped down on his on, that letter almost read as " I am leaving the team knows what to do without me".
His resignation letter, as well as the new head guy at Rift's state of the game level, were both pretty half assed that didnt do anything to address any player concerns. Post SL has been an absolute disaster so far and there isnt just chinks in trion's armor, its cracked and desperately trying to stay on.
Yeah, Hartsman did a good job on the Kunark xpac for EQ2. I have been enjoying dimensions quite a bit as well. Here is to hoping that everything moves forward for Rift after his departure.
It's pretty simple, really. This type of themepark is not going to cut it anymore. Rift had a nice run, and Trion is a neat company, but Rift is part of a dying paradigm, or at least a paradigm that is shrinking. There will always be room for a couple themeparks, but there probably won't be a WoW-killer that is a pure themepark. By adding Dimensions, you can see that Trion is getting their heads wrapped around player driven content now, but just tacking on housing instances is not enough.
I saw the same thing The Secret World, a game that should never have been a pure themepark. They threw in the RP Theater features so players could have some fun, but it's too little, too late. They could have added many more important hybrid features before worrying about that theater.
Game developers have got to understand by now, that if you are developing a pure themepark game at this stage, your business plan should be designed to get all the money you want back out of it within 90 days. If your game remains profitable longer, great, but don't count on it.
On another note, I think it was brilliant for Trion to take ArchAge on, and I'm betting they will learn a lot from it. I can't think of many game companies I would be happy handling ArchAge for NA, and Trion is in the top 3 based on pure professionalism and how much effort they put into making Rift a great game.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Endgame item threadmills are not my thing (I do raid), i also played between 1 to 3 month every AAA "themepark" out there. Rift had many glaring design philosophies and bugs *I* do not agree upon. However even if it didn't had those after 2 months i did all i wanted. Today, there is enough content after one year to justify one more month of sub.
But who's gonna pay the year in between?
The Raiders who like this game got today a satureated market (GW2 / SWTOR / WOW / LOTRO etc) and people who like a more sandbox approach to do stuff don't get enough content outside of the gear threatmill.
I would say the people who are whilling to spend money on subs on very limited themepark content shrink each day. 4 Years ago people had to sit it out till something new released. Today there are so many AAA mmos and even more coming. No one sits it out and pays a sub to a game they barely play.
They rather jump ship *smirks*, than waiting for new content. These Themeparks are bound to go F2P buy design. I Disagree that AAA MMOs (Especially sandpark - box) can only survive as F2P.
P2P is viable as it ever was.
Playing: EVE Online
Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter
Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online
Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2
Wow. Hartsman did a hell of a job. I can't wait to see his next product.
RIFT just came at the end of the WoWesk themepark era.
I don't think it has anything to do with thempark vs sandbox. In fact, I think Sandbox games will sink faster as they have such a high learning curve and are pretty boring, in my opinion. I think it has more do with whether or not the game has new material for all level of players or not. Stormlegion was only for the players who have already maxed out characters so they lost the repeatability factor. That to me is the biggest problem. If Trion would have added another new intro area to the game, then I could see playing again. Right now, no. Also is the fact they used to have 2 separate factions but now can be mixed into three different ones? They lost their footing in ther own storyline/lore and that is one of the other issues going against the game.
I don't think player housing, added into any game, will save a game. It is another time sink/money sink is all. A grind is a grind and that is the issue. If you want new players and your current base to continue to play and start new characters, it can't be the same old areas over and over.
If Rift is going down, it means the company doesn't have the staying power or the people and it does not bode well for any game that they develop/publish. It means they will punish Paul to pay Peter, not a good way to run a game. They did some great things but they also did some really dumb things, which ultimately killed the game for me after 1 year of subbing to Rift. That means, to me, it doesn't bode well for Archage as they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater - if they do it to a game they put time into, why wouldn't they do it to one they are just publishing?
Can you please elaborate??
I for one am glad he's leaving.. I don't think so much of he's lieaving as Trion pretty much kicked him to the curb, and rightfully so.. But then I hold Trion equally responsible for the glaring issues Rift has.. Scott suggested and designed a game that was a mini me version of WoW if I ever saw one.. There was basically only 1 path to level your characters.. Majority of end game content was nothing more then a raiders themepark treadmill.. I think most people that cancelled Rift like I did in the first year never gave SL a chance.. A first impression is a lasting impression.. I do hold both Scott and Trion at fault for the direction they chose to take Rift in the first place.. Personally I'll avoid anything that has Hartsman's name on it if I can help it..
The really sad thing.. I was actually looking forward to ArcheAge, but now I find out that Trion was awarded publisher.. OH SHIT.. I truely hope that only responsibilty they will have is marketing, customer service, and maintenance stuff.. I assume XL games has final say on everything.. I do find it funny that Scott views himself as a problem solver consultant.. Really? Considering he didn't solve anything in Rift or EQ2.. LOL
In the end this guy has it right, and why games have little real vision anymore, instead shallow window dressing to appease "casuals" (kiddies). After watching this I feel he's got it more, as opposed to less, right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
Wherever you go, there you are.
I thought I might just breeze over this video, but ended up listening to the whole thing. Not surprising, I suppose, since I am one of the people around here who have been complaining about the dumbing down of MMOs for the last several years. Good post, thanks.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I disagree. However, there will always be a market for casual/themepark games, even though the nature of those games will have to evolve beyond even what the best of them have to offer today.
The problem with themeparks is inherent to their design. They aren't even sustainable from a developer's point of view. As Smedley pointed out, it is nearly impossible to create enough themepark content to keep a larger player base around. It's too expensive for studios to make, and the players burn through the content a thousand times faster than it takes to make it. Add to this that everyone is insisting on "free to play" now, and you have an unsustainable business model on multiple levels. This is why SOE has seen the light and is taking EQ:Next in the direction of emergent, player driven gameplay.
From the player's perspective, there the 'been there and done that' factor. Themeparks feel pretty much the same, which is why so many people get bored with them and leave very shortly after release. As time passes, this problem will only grow as more and more players become tired of the same old systems and gameplay in every game. New entries and people who are super-casual players will probably prefer the old themepark model, but those are likely to become somewhat niche too as the gaming public evolves beyond them and expects a more rich experience.
The next popular games will be more of a hybrid model at first, and those hybrid models will introduce gamers who have only played themeparks to emergent gameplay and player-driven content. Once you let this cat out of the bag, many people want more. It's hard to go back to living someone else's linear story line in a themepark, once you have played a game that allows you to create your own path through the game world. In these games, you and your friends make your own quests by going out into the world and experiencing emergent gameplay.
I don't know what your idea of a sandbox is, but I wouldn't try to compare it to much you've seen in the past. The closest thing to a well rounded hybrid we've ever seen was Star Wars Galaxies, in my opinion. While SOE did not have enough themepark content and what they had was clunky, the lesson was learned that players do want to experience story content once in a while, not just sandbox play. Strike a good balance between these things, and let the player decide how to approach them and you are off to a great start for a modern hybrid game. Players who enjoyed SWG loved the sandboxy freedom of it, but they also wanted some directed content, including an overarching story to the world. In this case, the main factions and the Galactic Civil War.
There is a market for pure sandboxes too, and we'll likely see a few of these do quite well with smaller audiences just like EVE has. The majority of players will likely stick to well themed and balanced hybrid games which allows them much greater freedom of expression and gameplay, while also giving them simpler sandbox systems and a nudge in the right direction in the form of some scripted quest and dungeon content.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
He said he was stepping down from his position, not that he was leaving Trion. It was just the next day that ArcheAge was announced so it was possible he switched over to that project.
That said, I didn't read the Massively article yet so don't know if it was clarified that he left Trion or just Rift.
Check out his linked in page hes not with trion now. He is working for himself.
Justresponding to the title: what sinking ship? I subscribe to Rift and have nothing but good things to say about it.
Everyone in my guild is playing everyday and are having great time.